Would You Belt Him?!

dahooligan

Yesterday I was waiting at the 16 bus stop on O'Connell st and this scumbag (maybe 14 or 15 with burberry cap et all) ran up, lit a blackcat banger and threw it across the road - it fell directly in the middle of O'connel st where a temporary pedestrian crossing was set up. So there was about 20 people in the near vicinty of the banger going off and someone could have seriously been hurt.

So, I'm there two mouthfuls into me newly purchased sandwich, looking around to see if anyone's gonna do anything - like try to catch the scumbag and march him down to the police st which was all of 20 yeards away. Noone moved, and I'd say there must've been a good 200 - 250 people milling about. So I grabbed him by the back of the neck and tried to move him down towrds the copper shop but one swift kick to my leg and he was gone runnin. Still no one moved to help or anything, and I was left standing feeling like a tool for even caring.

Other situations have happened like where I've gone over to help a woman who I thought was gettin battered but it turned out that it was her boyfriend and she took offense that I thought she was in trouble.

I'm just wondering if things like this are just going to be continued to be ignored? Someone could've been seriously hurt and the scummer thought he was deadly..

whacker4fun

its todays society,u cant take that risk of intervening,ive had the same thing happen to me in rows between couples.ur bestv 2 just stay outa it.

ratboy

the old vigilante spirit has dissapeared unfortunately, we are now an apathetic society.

Nimrod's Son

If it's over something realtively trivial, then best not to get involved. It'll only end in tears (your own most likely).

Firewalkwithme

I note that you say 'somebody could have been hurt' - well nobody was hurt except you for sticking you nose in! What did you think the guards were going to do? They would have laughed at you most likely. That swift kick probably saved you from that embaressment if it's any consolation.

juststoptalking

"belting" him would be assault so no.

Ruaidhri

Welcome to civilization!
Yeah, no matter how bad you think something is, you can’t afford to get involved, unless you know what the story is. Honestly, it's even dangerous to try help someone on the street if they are hurt. You leave yourself wide open to lawsuits, or other forms of backlash. It may not be fair, but what can you do?
I know of someone who used to do first aid / civil defence. They helped someone who fell down some stairs, waited with them for an ambulance etc. had a lawsuit against them claiming they damaged this person more by intervening.
As already pointed out numerous times, it's just not worth trying to help strangers, it'll just bite you in the ass.

ratboy

Despatch wrote:

I note that you say 'somebody could have been hurt' - well nobody was hurt except you for sticking you nose in! What did you think the guards were going to do? They would have laughed at you most likely. That swift kick probably saved you from that embaressment if it's any consolation.

Is that not a bad reflction on the guards rather than the lad who brought him down. Is anybody else fed up of little ****s who are running around without control. Someone could have been hurt, banger can blow off fingers.

Rb

whacker4fun wrote:

ur bestv 2 just stay outa it.

And you're best off learning to use proper English and not txtspk.

robinph

Despatch wrote:

What did you think the guards were going to do?

Hopefully charge him with discharging explosives in a public area. But I'd doubt it really.

Firewalkwithme

ratboy wrote:

Is that not a bad reflction on the guards rather than the lad who brought him down. Is anybody else fed up of little ****s who are running around without control. Someone could have been hurt, banger can blow off fingers.

Yes but nobody was hurt so what were the guards supposed to do about it? It would be a different story if there was an injury caused but there wasn't so in this case I'd say let it go and finish your sandwich.

whacker4fun

a bleedin loaf cud break ur nossseeeeeee rb ie.like wats d story wiv dat name????

dahooligan

Despatch wrote:

I note that you say 'somebody could have been hurt' - well nobody was hurt except you for sticking you nose in! What did you think the guards were going to do? They would have laughed at you most likely. That swift kick probably saved you from that embaressment if it's any consolation.

Ah here! So the banger could've gone off in someone's face, and because no one actually did get hurt then sure leave him on?! And if someone DID get hurt, what would you have suggested I do? Go over and sympathise with the person with no eyes and call the scumbag names?! Come on people! God knows how many times he did that all day like!

ratboy

Despatch wrote:

Yes but nobody was hurt so what were the guards supposed to do about it? It would be a different story if there was an injury caused but there wasn't so in this case I'd say let it go and finish your sandwich.

How are you suppose to stop a problem unless you halt it at root.

hullaballoo

Yes, the mass apathy bug strikes again.

It p!sses me off because people are entitled to intervene without being afraid of assault charges. It doesn't make too much sense to me that people don't band together when stuff like that's going on. I mean if 30 people grabbed yer man who threw the banger, he wouldn't have gotten away with it.

I just don't see why people are so averse to getting involved in stopping eejits like the banger boy. If he's only 15 or whatever, he couldn't put up too good a fight, and it might serve to nip that sort of "anti-social" behaviour in the bud, if only people took an interest.

jptk

I say fair play to you for trying to sort him out. If more people were like that there might be less random scumbag attacks

Firewalkwithme

These little scumbags know the law - you lay a finger for them and it's you who will be in the dock - not them.

At the end of the day there was no harm done except to the OP getting a kick which you could argue was in self defence.

Gaz25

First of all fairplay to you for trying to march him to the cops very brave of you. I think the reason no one would help was for 2 reasons..the first being no one was hurt and i know someone could have being...The second is he is a little scumbag and not worth the hassle. I mean what would the cops do, tell him off? They dont do much as it is and are wase of are tax money.

I know from experience not to get involved in stuff like that anymore. I was walking back with a girl i was with from a nightclub once a saw some bloke bashing his dirlfriend, at the time i said it was none of mu business, but the girlfriend started to shout at me to go over. I ended up thumping the bloke in the face and broke his noise, but his girlfriend through a Hissey fit at me and called the cops, lucky i didn't get charged and was let of with a warning, but i have learnt my lesson and keep my distance from now.

The moral of this story is if no one else care's why should you?

ratboy

the problem is the public, the guards, the politicians ignore these scumbags to focus on the larger issue, the drug dealers and the gangs. Unfortunately, it's these little scumbags who grow into the bastards who run our 'pharmaceutical' business's so my policy would be to stop them early and stop them hard.

Royale with Cheese

You did the right thing by trying to bring him to the cops. Belting him yourself might have ended with you in a messy legal position. Let the cops do it for you, they probably knew the scumbag.

whacker4fun

cant we ALL just be friends.......???

lostexpectation

i reckon we should give the guards guns and let them shoot all scumbags on sight yeehawwww

Firewalkwithme

ratboy wrote:

the problem is the public, the guards, the politicians ignore these scumbags to focus on the larger issue, the drug dealers and the gangs. Unfortunately, it's these little scumbags who grow into the bastards who run our 'pharmaceutical' business's so my policy would be to stop them early and stop them hard.

I wish you ran the country ratboy, it would be some kind of Utopian police state.

hullaballoo

Despatch wrote:

These little scumbags know the law

Yet you, my friend, do not.

If someone is being attacked, you can defend them under self-defence.

If someone is committing a crime, you are entitled to stop them, or arrest them under self-defence. Here, the crime is, at a minimum, a breach of the peace--anyone would have been entitled to apprehend him.

joejoem

Best thing you could do if you really want to get involved is trip him. As he runs away stick your leg out. He snotts himself, a few people get a chuckle and youve done your bit.

Im proud of what you did though, well done. Good intentions and all.

Firewalkwithme

hullaballoo wrote:

Yet you, my friend, do not.

If someone is being attacked, you can defend them under self-defence.

If someone is committing a crime, you are entitled to stop them, or arrest them under self-defence. Here, the crime is, at a minimum, a breach of the peace--anyone would have been entitled to apprehend him.

Sorry but the OP suggested giving the lad a belt for what he did - that was not apprehending someone, or self defence since nobody was actually attacked.

ratboy

hullaballoo wrote:

Yet you, my friend, do not.

If someone is being attacked, you can defend them under self-defence.

If someone is committing a crime, you are entitled to stop them, or arrest them under self-defence. Here, the crime is, at a minimum, a breach of the peace--anyone would have been entitled to apprehend him.

I'm pretty sure if you hit a kid a belt, no matter what the circumstances, the police will come down pretty hard on you, if not, his da will get the lads in to teach you a lesson you won't forget in a hurry.

whacker4fun

trip him is a good idea,bring him down to the leveol he should be at.

whacker4fun

then stand on his head.

whacker4fun

no neck actually.

dahooligan

Gaz25 wrote:

I mean what would the cops do, tell him off? They dont do much as it is and are wase of are tax money.

I know the Raz probably would've waited till I turned the corner and then sent scummer on his merry way, but still..! Ah and I know this issue has probably been kicked to death and brought with it the whole vigilante movement etc. But it would make ya wanna hire a transit for a weekend and go round with golf clubs but sure where'l that get us?!

Frustration!:mad:

And I only did the headline as a means of getting peeps to read the thread. Nothing like a sensational headline..

Rb

whacker4fun wrote:

a bleedin loaf cud break ur nossseeeeeee rb ie.like wats d story wiv dat name????

ROFL.
Rapid.

hullaballoo

Despatch wrote:

Sorry but the OP suggested giving the lad a belt for what he did - that was not apprehending someone, or self defence since nobody was actually attacked.

No, I just said: nobody has to be attacked, committing a crime is enough. We have a right to use force to apprehend criminals--this includes whacking them if needs be. Just as long as the force isn't excessive.

ratboy wrote:

I'm pretty sure if you hit a kid a belt, no matter what the circumstances, the police will come down pretty hard on you

Luckily, the police aren't the ones who punish us, the courts do. Therefore, it's not the policeman's job to "come down hard"

whacker4fun

roll on ur head with a truck..........

BaZmO*

dahooligan wrote:

Ah here! So the banger could've gone off in someone's face, and because no one actually did get hurt then sure leave him on?! And if someone DID get hurt, what would you have suggested I do? Go over and sympathise with the person with no eyes and call the scumbag names?! Come on people! God knows how many times he did that all day like!

Well as seen as we're doin "ifs" and "buts". What if "you" ended up getting hurt?

A few years back I tried to stop a fight starting and got a beer bottle in the face for my trouble. I ended up with my cheekbone broken broken in 2 places.
Luckily enough I wasn't left with any scarring. But it does go to show why a lot of people don't get involved nowadays. I know it's a "what if" but, "what if" the little knacker had a knife? You could've gotten a lot worse than a bruised shin.

B.

ratboy

hullaballoo wrote:

No, I just said: nobody has to be attacked, committing a crime is enough. We have a right to use force to apprehend criminals--this includes whacking them if needs be. Just as long as the force isn't excessive.

Luckily, the police aren't the ones who punish us, the courts do. Therefore, it's not the policeman's job to "come down hard"

My mistake.

Ozzy

Well done dahooligan, fair play to you for at least trying to help out. It's true though, a lot of times this kind of attitude backfires... but **** it, sometimes it doesn't!
The problem is there's too many selfish people around man...

Anyway, if it was me, I would've punched him just for wearing a burberry cap! *POW* *POW* *ZAP* *MINT* like Batman *CRUNCH* *BANG*.. yah!

Firewalkwithme

hullaballoo wrote:

No, I just said: nobody has to be attacked, committing a crime is enough. We have a right to use force to apprehend criminals--this includes whacking them if needs be. Just as long as the force isn't excessive.

Luckily, the police aren't the ones who punish us, the courts do. Therefore, it's not the policeman's job to "come down hard"

ok but what if it goes to court?

Barrister: My client alleges that you assaulted him on O'Connell St. on (insert date). Is this true?

You: Yes - but he threw a banger

Barrister: Did he throw the banger at you?

You: No he threw it at a crowd of people.

Barrister: Was anyone injured as a result of my client throwing this banger?

You: No

Barrister: So you took it upon yourself to assault my client, vigilante style if you will?

You: Yes, I mean no but wait, it wasn't like that....

Barrister: No further questions.

ratboy

tell me this dahooligan, big crowd on o connel street, big crowd at the pedrestian area, bet there wasn't one of our beloved gardaí in sight.

dahooligan

ratboy wrote:

tell me this dahooligan, big crowd on o connel street, big crowd at the pedrestian area, bet there wasn't one of our beloved gardaí in sight.

Ah sure there were four of em, propping up our beloved GPO just down the street. As for Despach's Judge Judy style trial - hey that rhymed - I never said I would've hammered him into the ground. I had him by the neck and was tryin to make it to the cop shop. I was hardly gonna stand in front of him an formally ask him if he wouldn't mind accompanying me to the Garda Station.

Basically I know there can be legal ramifications if it had turned into a game of fisty cuffs, but I was just pointing out how shocked I was that A: it happened in the 1st place and B: No one else seemed to give a flying ?@*k:eek:

Firewalkwithme

Hey, don't diss Judge Judy

Siogfinsceal

i dont know sometimes it pays to get involved. Was out side a night club one night a woman and her husband had a row he pushed her and she hit her head on the curb. the bastard just walked off. noone even tried to help her they left her lying there!! I went over, helped her up and called a txi to take her to her sisters- her nose was bleeding badly.

an hour later a mate texted me. turns out the lady was his aunt who ended up in hospital with a concussion after turning up at her sisters and feeling worse.

so next time you say dont get involved just think the person in question could be your mates relative, your brothers mate etc

however on thi soccasion I woulsnt have done anything as noone was actually hurt

Eoin

dahooligan wrote:

Basically I know there can be legal ramifications if it had turned into a game of fisty cuffs

And from what I have heard, there could have been legal ramifications even if there hadn't been handbags at dawn. Someone with more legal knowledge will be able to confirm or deny this, but apparently you could be charged by the knacker in question for unlawful arrest or something similar unless the case against him was iron-clad.

hullaballoo

Despatch wrote:

ok but what if it goes to court?

Barrister: My client alleges that you assaulted him on O'Connell St. on (insert date). Is this true?

You: Yes - but he threw a banger

Barrister: Did he throw the banger at you?

You: No he threw it at a crowd of people.

Barrister: Was anyone injured as a result of my client throwing this banger?

You: No

Barrister: So you took it upon yourself to assault my client, vigilante style if you will?

You: Yes, I mean no but wait, it wasn't like that....

Barrister: No further questions.

That doesn't happen in real life. In fact, you very rarely (never) end up taking the stand as the accused. Plus, if you raise a defence (of which self-defence is one), the prosecution must prove you wrong.

No further questions.

robinph

eoin_s wrote:

And from what I have heard, there could have been legal ramifications even if there hadn't been handbags at dawn. Someone with more legal knowledge will be able to confirm or deny this, but apparently you could be charged by the knacker in question for unlawful arrest or something similar unless the case against him was iron-clad.

I'd say that if anyone else had bothered to lend a hand as well it would be a pretty secure case against him for letting off illegal fireworks. Someone using explosives in the middle of a street will have a hard time trying to make out that them then being arrested was unlawful.

Firewalkwithme

hullaballoo wrote:

That doesn't happen in real life. In fact, you very rarely (never) end up taking the stand as the accused. Plus, if you raise a defence (of which self-defence is one), the prosecution must prove you wrong.

No further questions.

So you're saying that I shouldn't quit my job to pursue my dream of writing courtroom dramas?

Dave!

hullaballoo wrote:

Yet you, my friend, do not.

If someone is being attacked, you can defend them under self-defence.

If someone is committing a crime, you are entitled to stop them, or arrest them under self-defence. Here, the crime is, at a minimum, a breach of the peace--anyone would have been entitled to apprehend him.

Weally? Do you have a link to one of the government websites that explains these laws? I'm just interested.

joejoem wrote:

Best thing you could do if you really want to get involved is trip him. As he runs away stick your leg out. He snotts himself, a few people get a chuckle and youve done your bit.

Im proud of what you did though, well done. Good intentions and all.

lol, quality

Féir plé, thread-starter! I don't know if I'da had the conviction to grab the little c*nt. I'm sure I coulda beaten his ass, but still, a punch in the face isn't pleasant...!

I tend to stay out of other people's business, generally because I'm a bit young to be goin up to junkies and tryin to get them arrested. I've always been a bit frustrated being on the bus, for example, and some scummer starts smokin down the back. I hate that, and I'd love to go down and telling them to stop, but unfortunately I'm not huge, so I'll end up with him and his mates killin me! :eek: I like to think that when I'm in a position to do something to help someone in trouble, I will, though.

Still, it says alot about the other people on the bus, tbh... or maybe they were all smokers, lol

EDIT:

I'd like to see all those little trouble-makers gettin their heads smashed in, personally, but anyone says a bad word to them and they could land themselves in court. It's a shame, really.

hullaballoo

eoin s wrote:

apparently you could be charged by the knacker in question for unlawful arrest or something similar unless the case against him was iron-clad.

I just don't know where you people here these things. I mean, for a start I presume you're talking about unlawful detention, but that doesn't even enter the equation.

It seems to me that a lot of people are seriously misled as to the law of the land, which is in itself a shame because if people knew their stuff, they'd be in a much stronger position when it comes to knowing what to do.

It's straightforward enough; the boy threw a banger, which is a crime and there's no two ways about that (bangers are illegal to begin with, throwing one in a public place is a breach of the peace and probably a more serious crime called endangerment). Next, our hero tries to stop him and gets a kick in the shin at which point our hero, or another virtuous person, is entitled to use force in self-defence. The only limitation is that the force is not excessive ie that they don't pummel the kid to death.

If anything, dahooligan could take a case against the banger-thrower for assault and battery for the kick to the shin.

hullaballoo

DaveMcG wrote:

Do you have a link to one of the government websites that explains these laws? I'm just interested

Here's one

and for explanation, here's another

whiskeyman

A lot of us see stuff that we know we should get involved with, but rule it out knowing possible consequences (what if they had a knife etc...).
Others do it out of pure instinct - "fight or flight".
I've also noticed that when more that one person joins to help, usually everyone else joins in... like a flock mentality.
I remember seeing someone trip up and hurt themselves during lunchtime on a busy Dublin street.
A few people walked straight by, but I went and gave the bloke a hand getting up and asking was he ok.
Only once I was assisting him did others join in / gather around and see.
I guess some are rubber-necking, but others really want to assist, but can only do so in a group.

Getting back to the post... I probably wouldnt have done anything unless I actually saw physcial harm being done to someone.
I'm surprised no one else helped you out once you had the guy - it probably would only take one more person before you had the whole street with you.
I would have reported to the cops though... hopefully they could whack him with a maglite (seems to be the done thing these days from reading AH!)

el Bastardo

Joe public just doesn't care until it's his car that's been keyed or his TV's been nicked or... whatever else affects him directly. It's laziness and apathy, and it drives me mad.