Family Child Thief

LegacyUser

My name is Peter

Recently my younger brother, stole my credit card details and ran up a rampant gambling debt. He is 16. He did this also to other family/friends.

Now we are left to pick up the mess
- get him some help
- pay ridiculous bills

Is there any fraud protection thing that I could look in to, without getting the brother in trouble.

I doubt there is, but I just need to ask. It would be a hell of a lot easier on the credit card companies absorbing these debts then us... I'm just looking for some advice, this leaves me in a terrible place financially, and this 16 year old can't cover it.

Hope you can help...

4Xcut

Make him get a job and pay back the money and he won't do it again. A burnt hand teaches best.
Obviously don't narc on him cos that's bent but make him pay off evey penny

Duckjob

unreg_peter wrote:

My name is Peter

Recently my younger brother, stole my credit card details and ran up a rampant gambling debt. He is 16. He did this also to other family/friends.

Now we are left to pick up the mess
- get him some help
- pay ridiculous bills

Is there any fraud protection thing that I could look in to, without getting the brother in trouble.

I doubt there is, but I just need to ask. It would be a hell of a lot easier on the credit card companies absorbing these debts then us... I'm just looking for some advice, this leaves me in a terrible place financially, and this 16 year old can't cover it.

Hope you can help...

I'm no expert, but I doubt fraud protection would be available here seeing as he's a) your family and b) a minor, so I would imagine the credit card company will see it as your problem. If so, then you're probably better off forking out (assuming you're in a position to do so) to save yourself being blacklisted with lenders in the future.

Be sure to make the little fecker pay you back though.

Zombrex

unreg_peter wrote:

My name is Peter

Recently my younger brother, stole my credit card details and ran up a rampant gambling debt. He is 16. He did this also to other family/friends.

Now we are left to pick up the mess
- get him some help
- pay ridiculous bills

Is there any fraud protection thing that I could look in to, without getting the brother in trouble.

I doubt there is, but I just need to ask. It would be a hell of a lot easier on the credit card companies absorbing these debts then us... I'm just looking for some advice, this leaves me in a terrible place financially, and this 16 year old can't cover it.

Hope you can help...

I would imagine that it is not possible to claim fraud has taken place on your credit card without your brother getting in trouble with the law for causing that fraud. If he has an addiction to gambling that probably wouldn't be the best course of action.

I would hope that your brother would feel guilty enough from the whole thing that he would be willing to get professional help for his addiction and eventually pay back the money he owes you.

tk123

You could always contact the credit card company and explain the situation - they might come to an agreement with you to spread the repayments...

BuffyBot

I doubt there is, but I just need to ask. It would be a hell of a lot easier on the credit card companies absorbing these debts then us... I'm just looking for some advice, this leaves me in a terrible place financially, and this 16 year old can't cover it.

Compounding this trouble with fraud really wouldn't help. Talk to your bank, and to your local MABS as soon as possible.

bonzai bob

Bring him to the guards.

billy the squid

You are going to have to swallow one of two very bitter pills here.

1. try to claim that the card was used fraudulantly and get your brother into trouble
2. pay a massive bill that you dont owe

If you think you will have difficulty paying this bill then you can try the Money Advice and Budgeting Service (MABS)
http://www.oasis.gov.ie/personal_finance/mabs/how_to_use_mabs.html

They might be able to help you clear the bill with as little affect on you. Your brother needs to be severely punnished, one question though, who got the money if he won? you or him. was it added to your account or was a cheque sent out?

your parents will need to make him go out and get work to repay you .

seamus

Yeah, I also think there are only two roads here:

1. Make him get a job and pay it off (and get him help)
2. Have the Gardai arrest and try him (and get him help).

Option 2 isn't such a bad thing, but nobody wants to put a family member in jail. I think the first stop regardless is a family counsellor, to discuss how to proceed. The kid may have a problem, but that doesn't excuse what he's done. He needs to be punished, and punished extremely severely. This is theft after all. If he's stealing from his family, how long before he's snatching handbags for a few quid to use down the bookies?

Phil_321

It's wasn't a violent crime (and could be a first offence) so I don't think he'd be sent to jail. Anyway isn't 16 too young for jail?
I think you should report him to the guards. You might have some hope of claiming fraud and getting money back and it could be better for your brother in the long run. Nip it in the bud, if he gets away with this now it'll only encourage him to do it again in future.

Lex_Diamonds

A criminal record wont help matters, that's for sure. As others have suggested, keep it in the family and make the little bastard work off the debt. Sell his ****!

Beruthiel

Lex_Diamonds wrote:

Sell his ****!

I would also do this, sell everything he owns and make him work till it's all paid off

bonzai bob

indeed, sell his ****.. that'll give him even more reason to go out and rob someone elses ****..

monkeyfudge

Whoever the gambling institution was, they failed to do a proper secuirity check and allowed a minor to gamble.

Although I don't think they are very forthcoming. I got hit with over €2000's worth of fraudulant charges on my card from a mrbookmaker.com. They never even responded to my credit card companys requests for an explaination.

Gilgamesh

I'm sorry, but maybe I'm too narrow minded for this.
Your brother commited a crime, A CRIME!!!
Imho I don't think it matters if it is a family member or not, they aren't allowed to be protect from the consquenses they deserve, if he can do this act to a family member, then he will not have any problems whatsoever doing it to someone he doesn't know.
it shouldn't be you having to worry about this but your parents anyway.
Okay, he owes you money, from what it sounds a lot of money, go to the people who are responsible for your brother, namely your parents.
If the Gardai would be involved they would be the first people they would contact aswell.
you have no obligation to the behaviour of you brother, if he screwes up or damages you in ANY way, your parents have to bite the bullet for him.

before someone claims I don't know what I am talking about, I went through the exact same thing with a cousin of mine, caused a bit of tension for some time, but after while it was forgotten and my cousin is also better off now

the Credit card companies will only be able to help you in the form that they will give you more time to pay debt off, they won't waver it in any way, why should they, you signed a contract making you responsible for your card, if it is stolen, you must report this to the gardai as soon as you have noticed it and get in touch with them to get it locked.

Best of luck

Gil

Santa Claus

Did your brother register your details with the gambling site or his own.
If he registered his own and then gave your details then they failed to do a proper name check on the credit card when taking the money.

Have you tried contactin g the site he was using to talk about this ?

I know someone who a similar thing happened to (family member used a credit card of his father) and after they threatened to report this well known irish bookmaker to every authority they could and get in touch with the papers media, the bookmaker re-imbursed 75% of the losses (statements to gardai were involved I know where the son had to confess that he had illegally used his dad's card)!

iguana

Santa Claus wrote:

and after they threatened to report this well known irish bookmaker to every authority they could and get in touch with the papers media, the bookmaker re-imbursed 75% of the losses

That could be your answer. Your brother is 16, even if he had used his own money it was illegal for the gambling company to allow him to gamble and the legal responsibility lies with them not your brother. Talk to them, threaten to take the issue to the authorities, afaik they have no legal entitlement to the money as a minor gambled. They must refund you. By the same token if your brother had made a fortune they would not be obliged to give it to him.

They can also be fined substantially for allowing your brother to gamble, it is in their best interests to refund his losses. Otherwise they may have to make a refund, pay a fine and gain adverse publicity. Which is what you threaten if they don't listen.

If the company is an online one based overseas this may be more difficult, but it is worth trying and you can always contact a "consumer champion" section of a newspaper who may have better results.

In the meantime make sure your brother is forced to deal with the consequences of his actions. The selling his stuff idea is a good one. And I don't know him but he may not have a gambling problem. Some teenagers are just twats sometimes.

jhegarty

iguana wrote:

That could be your answer. Your brother is 16, even if he had used his own money it was illegal for the gambling company to allow him to gamble and the legal responsibility lies with them not your brother. Talk to them, threaten to take the issue to the authorities, afaik they have no legal entitlement to the money as a minor gambled. They must refund you. By the same token if your brother had made a fortune they would not be obliged to give it to him.

They can also be fined substantially for allowing your brother to gamble, it is in their best interests to refund his losses. Otherwise they may have to make a refund, pay a fine and gain adverse publicity. Which is what you threaten if they don't listen.

If the company is an online one based overseas this may be more difficult, but it is worth trying and you can always contact a "consumer champion" section of a newspaper who may have better results.

In the meantime make sure your brother is forced to deal with the consequences of his actions. The selling his stuff idea is a good one. And I don't know him but he may not have a gambling problem. Some teenagers are just twats sometimes.

iguana is correct , ianal but as afaik they have to repay any money gambled by a minor.... Check with a solicitor ASAP.... it will cost , but may get everyone out of stick....

But as an aside put everyone the little b****d owns up on ebay....

StandnDeliver

if hes done to other ppl than you what an ahole
make him get a job,
or kick him out
or better threaten to break every bone
if u want to be just and fair
bring him to the cops,mind u its ur word against his.
so i dunno

fade2black

I think you're forgetting that he used the OPs credit card so as far as the bookmaker knows it was the CC's owner that was doing the betting

iguana

fade2black wrote:

I think you're forgetting that he used the OPs credit card so as far as the bookmaker knows it was the CC's owner that was doing the betting

Doesn't matter. If a 16 year old goes to a pub using the id of his older brother who he resembles the bar could still be fined for serving a minor. They probably wouldn't be, but that would be a matter of discretion for a judge.

In this situation where there is what sounds like an awful lot of money at stake I think the law would find against the bookmaker.

Do you think if the situation was the opposite and the kid had won a lot of money that the bookie would pay up if they knew the circumstances?

fade2black

The difference is, in a pub the barman has the benefit of sight.

iguana

fade2black wrote:

The difference is, in a pub the barman has the benefit of sight.

Yeah, but the law is that the bookie is responsible, if their system of checking ages isn't adequate then they have to bear responsibilty for that.

Phil_321

iguana wrote:

Yeah, but the law is that the bookie is responsible, if their system of checking ages isn't adequate then they have to bear responsibilty for that.

Well, that'll be the end of all online gambling so. There's no way any online bookie could be certain of a punter's age if you took that point of view.

Sure, if that was the case anyone could lose a fortune gambling online and claim it was actually an underage sibling/cousin/friend, etc..., thus letting themselves off the hook. FFS, if that worked we'd all be at it.

seamus

Phil_321 wrote:

Sure, if that was the case anyone could lose a fortune gambling online and claim it was actually an underage sibling/cousin/friend, etc..., thus letting themselves off the hook. FFS, if that worked we'd all be at it.

The law is clear enough though. Regardless of whether or not the bookie was duped into beleiving that the person wasn't underage, the winnings/losses are still invalid. "I didn't know" is never an excuse.

On the flipside, if someone did claim that their underage relative had done it, then the bookie has a legal recourse, or the child could be prosecuted for theft, fraudulent misrepresentation, or a whole pile of other things. It's not just a matter of pointing at the minor, say "He dunnit" and everything is OK.

Phil_321

Everything would end up O.K. though, because what kind of punishment are they gonna give to a minor who's a first time offender and who "made a stupid mistake that they're very sorry for". The CC owner would get off without paying the debts and the kid would get off with a bit of a tongue lashing from a judge.

Santa Claus

As I said in my original reply, the son had to go to the Gardai and make a statement confessing to using his fathers credit card without his permission before they contacted the bookmaker and subsequently got a partial refund (Note they only got 75% of his losses back as the bookmaker was more than willing to go to court to contest the case that it was the father as opposed to the son who used the card and the family weren't willing to add legal costs to their already existing expenses).

Bright Smile

The Garda liason officer in your area might be the man to call. They seem insistant that they dont want to put young 'uns in the system and so will try to work it out with you and them and help him sort his problem without getting him a permanent record. This could change however depending on the seriousness of the crime committed and how much the credit card bill came to so maybe do a preliminary checkup before doing anything with that.
Selling his stuff/making him get a job are all good suggestions.
Just keep in mind that everyone does incredibly stupid things at 16.

Victor

Gambling debts are not enforceable in Ireland, especially against a minor.

Check the situation out. Tell the CC company you won't be paying.

Make him pay.

conformist

batter your brother til he dies from it

The Corinthian

Two words; boarding school.

Duckjob

Victor wrote:

Gambling debts are not enforceable in Ireland, especially against a minor.

Check the situation out. Tell the CC company you won't be paying.

Make him pay.

Yes, but the owner of the credit card used was not a minor so the CC company may think he's using his little brother as an excuse to get out of paying. I would imagine the onus is on him to prove that it was his little brother that instigated it.

Certainly would agree with the 'make him pay' sentiment though. Teach him about cause and effect.

the_syco

unreg_peter wrote:

gambling
...
He is 16.

See if the company checked if he was over 18. If they didn't, they acted against the law, me thinks, for getting a minor to gamble.

fade2black wrote:

I think you're forgetting that he used the OPs credit card so as far as the bookmaker knows it was the CC's owner that was doing the betting

This is correct, so it may nullify the above point.

=-=

CHECK THE INTERNET's HISTORY.

THIS COULD ONLY BE one OF THE SITES HE VISITED.

As for selling his stuff; it'd send a clear message; crime pays.