Does anyone regret voting for the Good Friday Agreement in 1998?

tdf7187

Personally I do. In hindsight, we should not have deleted Articles 2 and 3 from our Constitution. It was too much of a concession to make to the people who can't decide if they're Irish or British.

I do not favour reunification of our national territory using violent means, I would consider that counter-productive. We all know that the Provos failed to achieve re-unification in spite of a 30 year bombing and shooting campaign.

O'Neill

Eurgh...what's the point...

John Doe1

As an Ulster protestant from Donegal, I strongly disagree.

The Good Friday/Belfast agreement stopped a war. NI is as British as it Irish and for a foreign nation to have a territorial claim on your country was always going to create tension in the unionist community.

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118026880#Comment_118026880

Do you not think it's a bit silly to describe the 26 counties as a foreign nation?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118026880#Comment_118026880

Its pretty ridiculous to section off the Irish province of Ulster and call the unoccupied parts a foreign nation. We'd our own loo lah call it overseas.

I'm glad the violence pretty much stopped.

endacl

No. Not at all. I’d vote for it again.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058213361/does-anyone-regret-voting-for-the-good-friday-agreement-in-1998

Absolutely no regrets here.

Two people a week died during the troubles. Every week. For 30 years! In a country as small as Ireland that is a horrific cost to bear.

Shao Kahn

The troubles allowed the worst elements in society to flourish.

The GFA allows the good / decent people in society to flourish.

There are young men and women, born around the time of the GFA, who have known nothing other than (relative) peace in their lives growing up on both sides of the border. That's an incredible achievement which should never be underestimated or disregarded.

It's certainly not perfect. But with every passing year of peace, more possibilities grow.

No regrets. But the way the British are dealing with Brexit suggests to me we don;t have to take any agreement with them seriously

dudley72

People getting killed from all communities.

Peace in Ireland finally after how many years? 7-800 years?

No border between the countries

People from both countries working and living together in peace

Over a billion been invested by the government to help more in the next few years

No f**king chance.

Timberrrrrrrr

I would vote for it again in a heartbeat, as others have said it helped bring peace to the island. Those of us old enough to remember switching on the TV every night and seeing another murder or another bomb going off will always be happy to see the end of that.

John Doe1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118026948#Comment_118026948

I am describing how your average unionist in say Carrickfergus or Bangor would see ROI, There are parts of NI which have very little interaction with Irish culture and would absolutely see ROI as a foreign nation.

There a million unionists in NI, they are not just Irishmen pretending to be British, they are genetically and culturally closer to the neighbouring island.

It is like telling a Turkish Cypriot that they are Greek Cypriot just because they have happen to share the same island.

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118027150#Comment_118027150

If the UK triggers article 16 of the NIP, we should consider the agreement repudiated and hold a referendum on the re-insertion Articles 2 & 3.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118026880#Comment_118026880

As a fellow Ulster Protestant (now expat), I couldn't agree more. Not much to add but it's a bit unnerving to see this kind of rhetoric where you've people supporting a foreign bad actor over the welfare of their own nation.

Nobody in Northern Ireland can't decide if they're Irish or British. Everyone I've met from there identifies as Irish including my own staunchly Protestant family from Donegal. Anyone feeling British feels British. There's no indecisiveness in this regard.

Anyone looking to undermine it because it's somehow impeding the trainwreck that is Brexit isn't worth listening to IMO. Imagine selling out your own nation because of the fools and bigots governing the UK.

OneEightSeven

I would have voted against it because of the birthright citizenship loophole it created.

Cassius99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118027757#Comment_118027757

Possibly not the greatest example to use. Having lived and worked in Cyprus I've found that most Cypriots, regardless of ethnicity want to refer to themselves as just that - Cypriot. It's only outside influences that have emphasized the Greek Cypriot/Turkish Cypriot divide in the communities.

Manic Moran

What, something of 96% of us voted in favour? I was one of them.

On the one hand, you have a war which may well be stopped. Every other evening, it was "Bongg..... Bongg..... Bongg..... (With the same still painting on the tv).... Good evening. In Belfast/Derry/Armagh today....."

On the other hand, you have a declaration of claim which isn't happening in practical terms anyway, there's no difference between that an a declared aspiration. Is that unattainable claim really worth all the bother? Who knows, maybe one day NI will choose to flip over. If they do, great. If not, at least the island is a lot more peaceful.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028189#Comment_118028189

Lucky for you then you got your say on that in 2004.

mikethecop

only some one who wasn't around during the troubles would start a thread like this

fcuk me its like we are de evolving as a race

paul71

There are probably 3,000 to 5,000 alive today, who would otherwise not be with us were it not for the GFA. That is the only consideration that has any validity.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118027757#Comment_118027757

I was in a furniture shopin the Waterside of Derry a number of years ago and the sales person had no concept of where Galway was when I asked them about delivery to the republic.

Equally I was chatting with some people in a unionist town in north Down and they too had no real grasp of the geography of the republic and things like that.

It's a foreign country to them.

And I'm fine with that.

freshpopcorn

I'm nearly 29 and grew up in Cork so clearly I didn't vote for it but I believe I would have voted in favor of it.

However I would know a few lads who'd be against it who'd be my age going by stuff they'd say. It's mainly from stuff they read online.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028810#Comment_118028810

Exactly the same thought as I had....

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028827#Comment_118028827

1000% this... it might not have been a perfect solution but it saved thousands of lives...

id vote for it again.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118029695#Comment_118029695

This is the problem with some political parties trying to change history and spin a new agenda. What happened and what is been told happened are two totally different things if you listen to some people.

The problem is people believe the bulls**t that is been spun. It was a study done in US, I can't remember the exact percentage but a bulls**t story was more likely to be shared and spread than what actually happened. It really is a disgrace

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028810#Comment_118028810

People who don't remember the past are basically doomed to repeat it unfortunately.

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118029953#Comment_118029953

I've heard that comment is attributed to Edmund Burke but never found a reiable source to verify it, do you know if its origins were with Burke Ancapaildorcha?

Tork

I grew up listening to those news bulletins too and even to this day, when I hear certain place names in Northern Ireland, they remind me of atrocities. When I was a kid in the late 80s, my family travelled to the north. I clearly remember armed soldiers walking along the high street of the town we were in and our car being stopped at some point. The GFA isn't perfect but I don't think any solution would have been. The worst side effect of it has been the near annihilation of the SDLP and UUP in favour of Sinn Fein and the DUP. The DUP in particular is doing the north no favours but that's a matter for another thread.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030092#Comment_118030092

I know it's a misquote and that's about it, unfortunately.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030159#Comment_118030159

Neither SF or the DUP are doing anything in the North. If you kicked both parties out you would have a lot more progress in the 20+ years. Both of those parties prefer to spend years bickering with each other and doing absolutely nothing. Imagine shutting down the government for 3 years and both parties sat at home on full pay. Disgraceful

Tombo2001

Gas how some people cant recognise or admit that Northern Ireland and ROI are two different countries. Really folks......

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030203#Comment_118030203

yes it is shocking. I don't see why it is such a problem

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030092#Comment_118030092

George Santayana , The Life of Reason 1905*

* According to Google

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030092#Comment_118030092

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118029953#Comment_118029953

Burke shouted it that statement very loudly in a bar one night when he was out on an absolute bender. Off his head on whiskey and porter.

When asked to elaborate on what he meant by it the next day he said he didn't have a clue as he was so pissed he couldn't even remember saying it and cast doubt on it as being something he would ever say.

He went out then the next night on another mad one and did the exact same thing again.

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030299#Comment_118030299

I saw that and that Churchill had Quoted Santayana in 1948. Santayana is the earliest verified reference I can see for it but I have heard Burke said it too (but see no proof). In this context I see no relevence for the quoteto the referendum affirming the GFA in our constitution, but I do see the danger in the UK playing games on the NIP.

In effect all we did in that referendum was remove an unenforcable claim to Northern Ireland. That hurt no-one and if offence was given to some people by the removal of the claim, and the benefit was the saving of thousands of lives, I would choose to give offence 1,000 times again.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118027150#Comment_118027150

The Americans are involved in this agreement though. The UK will do f*ck all.

VinLieger

If I was asked to vote for it tomorrow as it was originally worded it would be a no mainly due to how unbelieveably naive a document it has turned out to be just 20 years later.

The fact that there is no requirement for a definitive answer to what a yes vote on a border poll will result in prior to a border poll taking place is just asking for trouble after we've seen what a farce Brexit turned out to be using the same backwards methodology.

With the way it is currently structured a yes vote on a border poll could mean 10 different things to 10 different people much like the leave vote did for brexit.

We absolutely need to know exactly what we are voting for prior to any border poll happening but that requirement is not codified anywhere in the GFA and I sincerely doubt it will happen.

Snugbugrug28

I'm having a crisis of faith in the GFA at the minute due to the current behaviour of the BoJo government. It feels like we were BS'd with the Withdrawal Agreement and Protocol and quite possible BS'd about their commitment to Northern Ireland's ability to determine its own future by consent.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030875#Comment_118030875

GFA never considered Brexit as it was 20+ years before

Of course if it was now it would be different, we are 20 years on. Lots has changed in ireland and Uk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118026948#Comment_118026948

Yeah it’s a very unionist thing to say.

not everyone up there would view it that way which many unionists don’t seem to accept. They aren’t the majority anymore.

Capt'n Midnight

Best comment on the GFA I heard went something like "The Unionists didn't know they'd won and kept complaining about it and the Nationalists who knew they'd lost but kept quiet". It was reminiscent of the promise of Lloyd George of "terrible and immediate war" if the Anglo Irish Treaty wasn't signed. It could have been better but the alternative was unthinkable.

It brought peace. And took a lot of wind from the sails of the rabble rousers. And those that objected couldn't resonably be satisfied. Even now they got 80% of what they wanted (a good compromise leaves both sides equally dissatisfied) and it's not enough.

And things like NDNA (New Decade New Approach) and the Northern Ireland Protocol mean that all the gains for peace and sanity have been bolstered.

BBC NI did something like RTE's Reeling in the Years. Pop Goes Northern Ireland. Each episode bleaker than the rest. It's depressing.

I can remember when RTE news always started with "but first, today in Northern Ireland.." and it was never a happy story. I can remember the Newsflashes across the bottom of the screen advising keyholders in Everytown to check their premises. I can remember queues at the border. I can remember lots of concrete and cameras at the border. And the observation towers that could read number plates in Dundalk. I can remember the crowds in Dundalk lining the streets when the Death On The Rocks bodies went past. I can remember when there wasn't any night life in Belfast and you had to go through check points to go shopping. The Eurpoa Hotel was the most bombed in Europe.

Used to be 100,000 showing up to Belfast Hall to say "NO!", now it's 400 tops on a good day if there's marching bands to protest the Protocol.

Before Brexit we used to have a trade deficit of €3Bn with the UK, it's now a €2Bn trade surplus. In spite of that trade on the island has increased.

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030875#Comment_118030875

Please explain how any of that would be worth 5,000 dead.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118026880#Comment_118026880

So as an Irish person living in Ireland you have a distinct issue with the idea of the country that you are living in having a claim on lands that were historically part of same? also considering the fact that its an island obviously it would make sense that they be part of the one land?

Religion is irrelevant, otherwise as a protestant living in the republic, were it that repugnant of an idea to be part of the republic you would have moved into the Uk long ago.

As an Irish person, growing up near the border, I consider us to be one island, one island that makes sense as one, other than having an arbitrary border across fields.

As an Irish person living in Ireland, I could claim equal creation of tension in my community by the British claim on our land.

In reality I'm happy with the status quo, once we can all move freely its all ok, its a far cry from going out on the bike and being interrogated by the British army at gun point as a teenager a few minutes from home.

We do not need to go back to those days.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031081#Comment_118031081

What a sad little straw man this post is

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030875#Comment_118030875

The flaw in your reasoning is that referenda in mature democracies like Ireland tend to be technical affairs that take occur at a glacial pace. Nobody could have forseen that a UK PM would sacrifice the welfare of his citizens over leading his party properly or that he'd be succeeded by irrational, privileged zealots, racists and morons.

There is no equivalence. The consequences of a border poll will be well known in advance. People will know what they're voting for. The comparison with 2016 is simply ridiculous.

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031708#Comment_118031708

`Absolute bull. People died every day, bombs were planted every day, children were murdered, because of stupid small minded little arguements like yours and the GFA stopped that.

They were real people dragged out rubble everynight on the news of my childhood, the 2 littles boys bombed into meat in Warrington were real. There broken hearted fathers were real. There is NOTHING straw about those deaths and any little small minded opinion you have is NOTHING in comparision the the deaths the GFA prevented.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030875#Comment_118030875

I think you're looking at the GFA from the wrong perspective. It was, by far, an agreement designed to facilitate peace and understanding and a framework for political cooperation between the two communities. That was the number one priority - to get that conflict ended, to stop the killing and the destruction, and actually have some sense of normality within Northern Ireland. Considering how hard it was just to get the agreement as it was signed, if you added in the nitty gritty of negotiating what a UI would look like, you'd have been negotiating that thing for years more, and those extra years of political stagnation and killing and suspicion and fear just would not have been worth it.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031786#Comment_118031786

Read my post again before you hit your head again from jumping up and down on your high horse, I said if I was asked to vote for the same wording tomorrow i wouldn't nothing more.

If your going to intentionally misinterpret what i wrote for your own personal satisfaction of shouting at a random person on the internet im just not gonna engage with your twaddle. Your post was a straw man and if you cant understand that then you might need to take a break from talking about topics that are so emotive for you.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031726#Comment_118031726

Ive heard this line time and again and i simply will not believe it until I see it. I dont believe those on the republican side will be willing to wait the time it will take to work out the mountains of issues that will be need to be decided upon, and I dont believe the unionists will engage in good faith which will prolong the issue even further and make republicans even more impatient to just have the border poll without things ready. I also think much of such an agreement would be fudged by certain parties just to get the result they desired and end up leaving us in an absolute no mans land, economically, culturally and security wise for years if not decades to come.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031788#Comment_118031788

I don't disagree, but that doesn't make it any less of a flawed document knowing what we do now after the brexit fiasco.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058213361/does-anyone-regret-voting-for-the-good-friday-agreement-in-1998

No. Not at all. I always put people before nations, borders and flags. Thats what I abhor about Nationalism - that it puts nations, borders and flags before people