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Need to take my kids off their mom

  • 22-07-2018 4:07pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    Need to go unreg for this one.

    Myself and my ex split almost 7 years. No marriage so no legal issues and we've always had a fairly amicable relationship since. Still do. Until, that is, I walk into her house when I'm collecting the kids for the weekly visits. I get so angry when I go over there seeing the filth that she's allowing herself, and especially, the kids to live in. There's rubbish all over the sitting room, kitchen, hall, bagged and unbagged. The kids range in age from 16 to 9 (we have 5 together), and I certainly know that they have their role to play in all of this too.

    She's not looking after them at all. Her meals are ready meals and processed foods, never freshly made and for the most part the kids make them themselves. She doesn't even wash herself as far as I can gather. Wears her makeup for days on end only removing it with a baby wipe before reapplying it if she has to go out the door somewhere. The woman spends all her time volunteering and overnights at her new boyfriend's place, often not coming home till midday or after it the next day.

    My kids are living in filth and I don't know what to do about it. I could call social services but they'd end up in foster care as I don't have the accommodation to house them and the council have already told me that unless I'm the primary carer, they won't help me out. I could rent privately, but I have no references to even get a place, plus it'd wipe out my income and they would be living in the same level of poverty that they live in now. I'm living at home with my dad in a small 3 bed having had my house repossessed a number of years ago. I give my ex 25% of my salary every month to keep them going but she has a number of payday loans which doesn't help.

    They're living almost 30 miles away too which means that if they come live with me they have to change schools... again, which happened when we broke up that long ago and it was hard for them. The eldest are coming into their own now and I don't want them to regress. The commute to bring them to school wouldn't bother me but it wouldn't work with my job (starting a new job next week after being made redundant a few weeks ago).

    I'm just stuck. They love their mom and I do firmly believe that kids belong with their mothers if a relationship breaks down as they're far more nurturing but this is wrong. The conditions she forces them to live in is just wrong, which she freely acknowledges, but whenever I challenge her on it, she just blames the kids for not helping out when it comes to cleaning.

    The final straw came yesterday when I complained that my youngest daughter's hair had not been brushed in about a week. She blamed the child for not coming to her when she told her to so that she could brush her hair. I sent the child away to get her hairbrush and what I found when I was brushing, bleugh, hair lice all over the place. It took me a half hour to brush the poor childs hair it was that knotted. I complained about the head lice and she said it was from other kids in school and she's trying her best to get rid of it, when I pointed out that it was because of the conditions she was making them live in because school's been out the past month, I was abused, berated attacked physically. There was no end. I brought the kids over to my place, instructed my youngest to have a shower and I treated her head lice. Hundreds of them, I'm not kidding.

    I just don't know what to do. I told her she had a month to get the place in order or I was coming for the kids, she knows full well I haven't the abilty to do so, but I threatened her all the same, all she could do was attack, attack, attack. I'm stuck in a bind and it's killing me. I don't want to drag the kids through court cases or any of that crap as they'll end up hating me, they already hate me enough as it is coz of the way she talks about me to them (Case in point, yesterday when we were arguing,our daughter got very upset so I gave her a hug and apologised for fighting, telling her that it wasn't her fault and that it was all about me and mam. She then chimed in and said it was all about me). What am I supposed to do like? I can't win.

    Somebody help me please because I'm at my wits end over this. Thanks


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,093 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    5 kids to rear isnt easy even with help so maybe shes overwhelmed.
    I realise many rear thst many on their own and the kids and house are picture perfect but not everyone is capable of this or even able to attempt it.

    You had a good relationship. Dont let that go. Also try looking for some positives instead of focusing on so many negatives.
    Talk with her. See what compromises could be reached.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,437 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    You need to call social services immediately. Foster care would be better than where they are now. I'm speaking from experience here. Please, please please pick up the phone and call. Don't leave your kids in that situation. They won't thank you for doing nothing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    If you really want the kids to stay with their mother, maybe you could consider paying weekly for someone to clean the house? It would be much cheaper than renting your own place for yourself and the five kids, paying for childcare etc.
    As in, get someone to come in on a weekly basis to clean the house, wouldn't cost you more than 50 a week, and the house would be spotless. This would mean the mother would have more time on her hands to actually look after the kids, too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭jacknife


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    You need to call social services immediately. Foster care would be better than where they are now. I'm speaking from experience here. Please, please please pick up the phone and call. Don't leave your kids in that situation. They won't thank you for doing nothing.

    Involving social services will make a bad situation worse, children in foster care have a greater chance of being abused and leaving with serious issues, giving children up for foster care they will be separated and the relationships destroyed, you will be forced into supervised access and if your circumstances change you will not be allowed get them back, it will become a battle between adults

    contact your ex wife and offer to help, there is no such thing as a primary carer, its not a legal term, offer a co parenting plan, offer to help her, take the children out for a while

    The two of you can solve this problem, work together for your children


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,437 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    jacknife wrote: »
    Sardonicat wrote: »
    You need to call social services immediately. Foster care would be better than where they are now. I'm speaking from experience here. Please, please please pick up the phone and call. Don't leave your kids in that situation. They won't thank you for doing nothing.

    Involving social services will make a bad situation worse, children in foster care have a greater chance of being abused and leaving with serious issues, giving children up for foster care they will be separated and the relationships destroyed, you will be forced into supervised access and if your circumstances change you will not be allowed get them back, it will become a battle between adults

    contact your ex wife and offer to help, there is no such thing as a primary carer, its not a legal term, offer a co parenting plan, offer to help her, take the children out for a while

    The two of you can solve this problem, work together for your children
    With the greatest of respect, unless you grew up in circumstances similar to what the OP described, you don't know that it would make the situation worse. The children are already being abused. They are being neglected. The OP doesn't seem to know how to handle this himself so professional intervention is required. That doesn't have to mean foster care for anyone just some support and guidance and an eye being kept on things.

    The fact that this woman us blaming her children for a hoard of rubbish and a little girl for having matted lice infested hair points to something very amiss. She may be suffering a mental health crisis. Maybe not. But either way she's not coping, the op doesn't know what to do so someone who does needs to be involved.

    For what it's worth I'd have given ANYTHING to be removed from the squalor and misery of my home. I've been that child with the matted, licensed infested hair. My mother used to blame us too. Then go beserk if one of us tried to use the washing machine or turn on the hot water to clean ourselves up.
    Get help op.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,634 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    From your description I would think there are signs of neglect.

    OP you say "No marriage so no legal issues" do you have legal guardianship of your children?

    You split 7 years ago so would not seem to be in a position to have met the necessary conditions for automatic guardianship established under certain provisions of The Children and Family Relationships Act 2015.

    Unfortunately unless you have been granted guardianship by the court, you are completely reliant on the good will of your ex in relation to anything to do with your children. Effectively you have no more rights than a complete stranger.

    If you are concerned for your children's welfare you should consider if you should apply to the district court for guardianship. Without guardianship you have no say in your children's welfare if you feel you need to take further steps for their welfare.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Foweva Awone


    Headlice are not caused by dirty conditions.

    No authority is going to intervene over issues like them eating ready meals rather than homemade food - important thing is that they're being fed.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    OP you say "No marriage so no legal issues" do you have legal guardianship of your children?

    +1
    Its not clear what exactly the position is- or indeed, just what the outcome is that the OP is seeking.

    The best advice I could give the OP- is to make an appointment with a family law solicitor- and see what their rights and obligations are.

    I've only two kids here- and I don't have have refuse scattered around the place- but by god its a mess that I'd not invite anyone in to see.

    The mother has 5 kids- it could very well simply be the case that she is overwhelmed- notwithstanding the fact that some of the kids are older and capable of looking after themselves to a large extent.

    I'm not really sure what outcome the OP is seeking- or why they imagine that the fact that they're not married has much bearing on, well, on anything- they are the father to five children- and married or otherwise, have obligations towards the five children- its all well and good to tear strips off the mother- but she is probably doing her best, perhaps not particularly well, but her best, nonetheless.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭Fakediamond


    Hi OP,

    I also think you should make a report to Tusla. It’s honestly unlikely they’ll be put into foster care as places are very limited and children are generally only removed in the most extreme cases. Having said that, your children are being neglected and suffering as a result and that needs to change. I’m surprised that the school hasn’t made a report already.

    You’re ex may be suffering from mental health or addiction issues and could be helped with those. Tusla have this system called Meitheal, which is where support agencies come together to put a support plan in place for the family. Your ex would have to agree to participate though or it won’t work. An example would be where a family support centre would help the mam to get the house and kids sorted out and help to organise a schedule for them. Do your kids get to see a doctor or dentist as needed? She may need help scheduling their appointments. Five kids is a lot to handle and she may feel hopeless and overwhelmed.

    You would also be involved as part of the support mechanism, for example, instead of handing over money, maybe you could do the weekly grocery shop, pay some bills etc. It’s about providing concrete and practical support.

    Please don’t worry that social workers will swoop in and grab your children, the system is way too overburdened for that to happen.,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,437 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Headlice are not caused by dirty conditions.

    No authority is going to intervene over issues like them eating ready meals rather than homemade food - important thing is that they're being fed.
    If the OP is to be believed the kids are living in the midst of a rubbish hoard. Head lice are not caused by dirt but they do need to be treated. Not treating them is neglect.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If you feel so strongly you should ask would she let you move it to help for an agreed period of time. If not you yourself should take over as their main carer and let them live with you. You say they would be in poverty with you also but poverty is not the issue you are outlining here neglect is. And that is neglect from the mother and yourself not just the mother. You are their parent also so I cannot see your reluctance to help in a practical hands on way.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    If the OP is to be believed the kids are living in the midst of a rubbish hoard. Head lice are not caused by dirt but they do need to be treated. Not treating them is neglect.

    +1
    Its relatively easy to treat headlice- and they are endemic in schools, esp among girls (as girls tend to huddle and play in groups far more than boys- which gives headlice the all important transmission vector).
    Also- ironically- headlice prefer clean hair.
    Not treating headlice- is neglect- and I don't see how or why the father couldn't spend a few hours doing the treatments on a Saturday or whenever he has custody- and he could also give the children some of the nit combs and show them how to use them. Obviously- the children's bed linen etc- should be properly laundered- to ensure they're not reinfecting themselves. But- treatment is fairly straightforward- its not difficult, and the father doing nothing is neglect on the part of the father- as much as leaving it untreated by the mother is.......


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 942 ✭✭✭Ghekko


    Make sure you check all kids hair as no doubt the others will have lice too. As for the state of the house, unless your ex is working full time, she should be able to keep on top of things with the help of the kids. They are all old enough to be able to hoover, wash dishes, put on a wash, keep their bedrooms tidy etc and the older ones could help cook. Sounds like she is in a rut and just can't be bothered. You could go over and insist that you all chip in for a day and get the place clean and tidy again - she may be better able to keep it that way then. Her hygiene issues are her own problem but you need to educate your kids about their own personal hygiene so they don't end up like her, thinking it's ok not to wash. You could involve their public health nurse if you don't want to report to social services. They can be very helpful and give advice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,437 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    I agree. Hence why I think Tusla should be involved and supports, advice etc put in place. We don't know he didn't treat the lice either.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 942 ✭✭✭Ghekko


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    I agree. Hence why I think Tusla should be involved and supports, advice etc put in place. We don't know he didn't treat the lice either.

    It was just that he mentioned treating that one child in his post. Hopefully the other kids were checked too. The mother could also have them. The worry is that if one person is left with them they'll pass them on again. Hopefully they're all clear though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    So, there are 7 people in this family... 5 kids and two adults. You give 25% of your salary to support your 5 children and their mother.... most of which goes out the door on a loan.
    and you keep the remaining 75% for yourself... 

    You couldn't possibly mind then, because that's a woman's job apparently.

    Then, you go over and read the riot act about the house being messy and there not being homemade meals.

    Are you for real?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,507 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    You need to start being more active there.

    Go to the house and do one day of a major deep clean with the kids. Get a skip or skip bags if needed.

    Expect to steam clean carpets, wood floors and tiles. Throw out any stained or dirty furniture and bedding.

    From then on go to the house twice or three times a week at an agreed time and clean it with the kids. Give each one of them chores and responsibilities. Encourage them to get involved, try not to berate (not easy).

    Consider a cleaner in the long run if this doesn't work.

    Food: Do the food and household shopping yourself. All of it.
    Get the kids involved in preparing food. Show them how to make simple but healthy food. Make batches of lunches and dinners twice a week and store in the fridge or freeze it. Give one of the eldest the responsibility of looking after this.

    Make sure there's plenty of stuff to snack on like fruit in the house.

    Its possible that your ex is having a form of depression. Or she grew up in a messy house herself. But its up to you to eduacte your kids on cleanliness and diet.

    Kids get lice. Ask any national school teacher. I'd play it by ear for a while, but I'd consider getting all of them new bedsheets, pillows and duvets. Start with the youngest and work your way up.

    Encourage your ex to go on a visit to her GP before you involve social services. They are easier to talk to for a lot of people.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    pwurple wrote: »
    So, there are 7 people in this family... 5 kids and two adults. You give 25% of your salary to support your 5 children and their mother.... most of which goes out the door on a loan. and you keep the remaining 75% for yourself... You couldn't possibly mind then, because that's a woman's job apparently. Then, you go over and read the riot act about the house being messy and there not being homemade meals.

    Are you for real?

    Seriously? Are you for real? You don't even know how much the OP earns, so you don't know what 25% of his income is. So how are you to judge what proportion he keeps for himself? If he's on a low wage, 25% may be all he can give.
    I actually cannot get over some of the reactions to the OP here in this thread - some responses here are a disgrace.

    - Hiring a cleaner - I realise this was well intentioned but it's a purely cosmetic fix, and doesn't address any other issues.
    -More chance of abuse in foster care - What??? They're already neglected!
    - Dismissing the presence of headlice - it's not that they are a sign of neglect, it's that the mother didn't even know the child had an infestation.

    And above all, attacking the OP??

    If anyone bothered to read the OP you'd see that this is not an acceptable situation for children to live in:
    The children are dirty - the mother hadn't even brushed her child's hair to know she had an infestation. [And yes, lice prefer clean hair, but they will live on any head of hair. It's just more to their liking if it's clean. Being unwashed will not discourage lice].
    There is rubbish all over the house.
    The children are making their own meals and aren't being fed properly because they're subsisting on ready-meals.
    The children have lice.
    The mother is often absent from the home, and blames the kids for all of the above.

    The seeming tendency to jump to the mother's support here is misplaced. Simply stating that she is overwhelmed is not a solution. Only she can fix how she deals with her circumstances, it's not the OP's responsibility - if she has issues that are causing this then by all means he should help her to address them, but he cannot let his children live like this for the sake of not rocking the boat with their mother. The OP's responsibility is to his children and if she is not attending to their needs then her feelings become secondary. She is neglecting her children and if he allows that to happen he becomes a party to their neglect.

    OP, it goes without saying, you have to put your children's welfare first, even if that means becoming the bad guy in their eyes for a time. Their mother is not looking after them. If you are not in position to take care of them yourself, then you need to involve people who can. I would strongly urge you to talk to Tusla. Even if the children are not removed from the home, it might give her enough of a wake up call to clean up her act.

    You need to do what's best for them. I know you are afraid of what will happen if you take a more forceful approach, but right now your children are being let down by their mother and you need to step in and take charge. If you have to move and rent and commute to take them in, then that's what you need to do - as another has said, poverty is not the same as neglect.
    If you are unable to do that and it is not realistic, then you need to involve Tusla. This will get worse before it gets better, admittedly. You have been put in a position where you are left making hard decisions, and that isn't fair, but unfortunately you are going to have to make them. I might give her one more chance to clean up her act (tell her you're taking it further if after one week the situation has not improved, etc) but then it's time to get social services involved - she's blaming the kids when her fault is pointed out to her so I really doubt she will even try, tbh.

    I would second the advice to speak to a family law solicitor, at least to find out your position and options. The idea that you are no closer to them in the eyes of the law than a stranger is pseudo-legal nonsense which I am not going to elaborate upon here, instead you should speak to a solicitor and get some real advice.

    Best of luck OP.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,507 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    I meant to say regarding food.... With 5 kids you'll probably find at least one who has a genuine interest in cooking, so this might help.

    If you're not handy in the kitchen yourself then consider hiring someone to cook for the kids and teach them. A Home Economics teacher would be a possible start at the beginning, but preferably not one they know.

    Get them involved from the beginning. Get them to pick a couple of days a week what they want to eat.

    Pizza is very easy to make from scratch, you can make a large batch of dough, portion it up and freeze it. Ingredients can all be fresh and healthy. Properly made its not junk food.

    Curries are also easy, can be made with very fresh veg and freeze very well. Salads are very diverse and fruit salad makes a good dessert.

    You can make healthy burgers and chips. Par boil the chipped spuds and finish them off under the grill. Use a good mix of veg like onions in the burger meat and top it with plenty of salad.

    Try to get to know a good green grocer. Buying in bulk will pay off with them in the future.

    You will probably meet some resistance from the kids initially, so consider introducing this bit by bit over a month.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 861 ✭✭✭tomwaits48


    pwurple wrote: »
    So, there are 7 people in this family... 5 kids and two adults. You give 25% of your salary to support your 5 children and their mother.... most of which goes out the door on a loan.
    and you keep the remaining 75% for yourself... 

    You couldn't possibly mind then, because that's a woman's job apparently.

    Then, you go over and read the riot act about the house being messy and there not being homemade meals.

    Are you for real?

    That’s an outrageous interpretation of the opening post.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,507 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    Also, teach them to separate and recycle waste as it will save a lot, especially for the first big clean. They'll probably have learnt this in school. Time to put it into practice!

    Also arrange to meet the ex when the kids are not there. Outline what you're going to do and if she's not on board, then fair enough. Try to get her to agree to the plan even if she wants no part in it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 745 ✭✭✭vectorvictor


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    I agree. Hence why I think Tusla should be involved and supports, advice etc put in place. We don't know he didn't treat the lice either.

    Agree here. These aren't the big bad wolves they are somehow made out to be. They operate on a child first basis. They don't care about you and your ex's spats and offer a chance for the kids to get what's best. The result may hurt you , your ex or both but it will be the best result for the kids.

    I can honestly say that while your parenting relationship will be most likely f****d after the process, the kids will come out on top


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    So, thanks to everybody for their feedback. Some of it is really useful, some I'm taking with a pinch of salt to be honest.

    Had a productive conversation with her earlier. They're all going to get the house in order over the next week and I'll go over one or 2 mornings during the week to clear out the collection and take it to recycling/landfill. I'm going to buy some paint so that the walls can be painted once they're cleaned and I'm also giving her some of my redundancy settlement to clear off one or 2 of those loans.

    The worst thing about this is that she's not a terrible person and is genuinely good hearted, she's just damaged. She didn't have the greatest upbringing, had a mother who did basically the same to them as she is doing to ours. She fully acknowledges that what she is doing is not good enough but is not making any effort to correct her behaviour.

    My issues are with the state of the house and the general cleanliness of the kids. She even let our youngest son go for his First Holy Communion without getting a wash. I arrived at the church and the dirt on the child's hands. I almost caused a scene.

    The good thing is that we now have a plan in place. This is something which reared it's ugly head a couple years ago aswell, so it's not a new situation. I just hope that she now puts her words into action.

    I've told her that I'll take the kids off her if she doesn't. It's a bluff for now considering my circumstances, but if she doesn't I'll definitely be seeking legal advice. The last thing I want is a protracted legal with the mother of my children. They want to stay with her, but I know they'd be better off in my care. I just wish I had the resources to do it now as opposed to later.


  • Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    It's pretty obvious that your ex isn't coping. It could be mental health issues or it could just be neglect. But the bottom line is that your children are suffering from this.

    I think if I were you, I'd be asking if I could move in to help co-parent, especially if you had been fairly amicable. That way, you can help get the children into a routine, instigate a deep clean and start to cook healthy meals. And if your ex is experiencing mental health difficulties you might be able to encourage her to get help.

    You could enquire then once you have the place in decent order for social service supports for when you move back out and once you have a better idea of what kind of help is required.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    If you feel so strongly you should ask would she let you move it to help for an agreed period of time. If not you yourself should take over as their main carer and let them live with you. You say they would be in poverty with you also but poverty is not the issue you are outlining here neglect is. And that is neglect from the mother and yourself not just the mother. You are their parent also so I cannot see your reluctance to help in a practical hands on way.

    Or could you spend evenings with them mid week? Help with meals and making sure the kids are bathed etc. It could help them get a routine back and also give you piece of mind that they're being looked after okay!


  • Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    The youngest is 9 and should be able to shower by themselves so all it might take is for you to pop in on your way home from work with groceries, sort /help with dinner, get the evening bedtime /shower routine going and do dishes it would still be a massive help and would also motivate the kids to do their part such as organising their uniforms, checking their homework and making their lunches and then go home to where you live with your dad.

    Once it's in a routine for a month or so then a timetabled schedule on the kitchen wall might be all the prompting they need.

    But please try not to threaten your ex, that's going to be worrying and stressful for the kids and you yourself say that she is good hearted and loves them so it's not her doing it because she doesn't care.


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You expect your ex to look after your 5 children, you pay 25‰ of your income towards them. How much would you pay if you were still together?
    Maybe your kids, the older ones in particular, do need to start doing something around the house?
    Bit of cleaning & cooking? It's good for them to know what goes into running a house anyway, it will stand to them when they leave home.

    You live with your father in a 3 bed house, plenty of room for a couple of kids if need be.
    You expect her to do everything, but you just see the kids for a few hours a week? Time for you to stop making excuses &do something, either help out in their home, teach your children to help out, or bring some of them to live with you.
    All I see here is excuse & laying blame with someone else. Why would you get Tulsa or social services involved? You are their father, do it yourself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,749 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    Do you ever take/have the kids for the weekend or anything -when you say weekly visits are they sleepovers or visits?

    Who minds them when she overnights at her partners?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,437 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    bubblypop wrote: »
    You expect your ex to look after your 5 children, you pay 25‰ of your income towards them. How much would you pay if you were still together?
    Maybe your kids, the older ones in particular, do need to start doing something around the house?
    Bit of cleaning & cooking? It's good for them to know what goes into running a house anyway, it will stand to them when they leave home.

    You live with your father in a 3 bed house, plenty of room for a couple of kids if need be.
    You expect her to do everything, but you just see the kids for a few hours a week? Time for you to stop making excuses &do something, either help out in their home, teach your children to help out, or bring some of them to live with you.
    All I see here is excuse & laying blame with someone else. Why would you get Tulsa or social services involved? You are their father, do it yourself.
    Did you read the OP?

    He lives 30 miles away from them.

    He wants to do it himself but doesn't know how to go about it. He's afraid he won't be "allowed" to have them due to his living with his Father. He's worried he won't be able to find a place to live near by.

    The rubbish is not even being thrown out of the house. The older kids obviously know how to do that. The fact that they are not implies something is very very wrong. The woman has stopped washing herself. Do you think the OP should pop round after work and give her a bath too?
    We aren't talking about a topsy turvy house that needs a bit of tidying. The OP describes squalor.

    He's not making excuses, he just doesn't know how to go about doing what needs to be done.

    Going in and organising a deep clean and setting up a rota will solve this problem for about 1 week. Been there, seen that done that. I guarantee you there's more to this than being overwhelmed and those kids are suffering.


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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Did you read the OP?

    He lives 30 miles away from them.

    He wants to do it himself but doesn't know how to go about it. He's afraid he won't be "allowed" to have them due to his living with his Father. He's worried he won't be able to find a place to live near by.

    The rubbish is not even being thrown out of the house. The older kids obviously know how to do that. The fact that they are not implies something is very very wrong. The woman has stopped washing herself. Do you think the OP should pop round after work and give her a bath too?
    We aren't talking about a topsy turvy house that needs a bit of tidying. The OP describes squalor.

    He's not making excuses, he just doesn't know how to go about doing what needs to be done.

    Going in and organising a deep clean and setting up a rota will solve this problem for about 1 week. Been there, seen that done that. I guarantee you there's more to this than being overwhelmed and those kids are suffering.

    He has 5 children, time he learned how to do whatever need to be done to look after his own children.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Do you ever take/have the kids for the weekend or anything -when you say weekly visits are they sleepovers or visits?

    Who minds them when she overnights at her partners?

    Yes, I take them every weekend, unless I've made plans with my friends which is usually about once every month or every other month. Not often. When she goes out for the overnights, the 5 of them are left alone. In the same town so not really an issue considering there's a 16 year old and an almost 15 year old in the house. I wouldn't mind so much if she answered the phone or responded to texts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    If you are going to spend 75% more money on them it might be worth their while - might give them a nice luxury break without watching a streatehed out parent trying to scrimp to survive and their mother can stop living hand to mouth and not have to share a pittance of 25% of an income with 5 other needy mouths. Of course we all know it is easier and cheaper to eat junk and things like pizzas and nuggets and readymades - let alone not having to shop every 3 days for fresh fruits or organic vegetables - but heyho - lets go for child abuse rather than impovrished or overwhelmed or that old excuse -exhausted.


    Its remarkable how someone who dosnt live in the house and dosnt sleep.over knows her bedtime routine intimately - but of course you're just speculating arn't you - cos you don't live there anymore? She never takes her make up off except with make up wipes mid-evening before rushing back out? And after she has cleaned her face reapplies fresh makeup. Wow. I bet Tulsa will be straight down to her for that. Naughty mammy. No toner or moisturiser. And a modern timesaving bestseller product sold en masse - Take her children away. Off with her head.She isnt washing it to your standard so she dosn't deserve it.

    Head lice are swapped from child to childs head and unless painstaking daily care is taken with each child are notoriously difficult to get rid of. And they are only attracted to CLEAN hair. Maybe if they were dirtier it would be better for them - but heyho they seem to have clean hair. Tulsa will tell you that too. Perhaps you'd like to head over to to your childrens home and spend an hour and a half or two hours shampooing and currycombing out the five heads of your children before they go.to school - and wash all their sheets,pillowcases,pillows and duvets - before returning to do it again in the evening - every day until they are gone? They are your children. It seems your rather strip them of their home albeit chaotic and lumber some unfortunate foster family with the burden - not to mention the hardworking taxpayer family who will have to shell out to suppoort someone else minding your children because you won't. - rather than do it yourself . It seems you're available daily - you not working at the moment - for someone as outraged as you are it shouldnt be too big a effort to make. After all - you do care - and they are your responsibility - them being your children and all.

    There are nice suggestions of paying for a cleaner and home help here - how about you also check that your struggling ex has alao paid for her *and your childrens) bin charges - and so can throw out her refuse - and is not scrimping and strugglinging financially so badly that she is storing toys and books and clothes in every available space to hand down to the next one or for when they are needed. I cant imagine 6 people trying to subsist on 25% of a salary having alot of leftover money for the necessities of life. I guess having 75% of.your salary and a redundency package to spend all on yourself you wouldnt be as familiar with the scrounging and desperation of someone struggling with loans and basic survival.

    My overall suggeation would be to stop emotionally bullying your ex with threats of having the state and taxpayer take away her family. Many of the problems you outline here can be solved in one simple change - keep 25% of your salary for yourself and give the 75% to the other 5 or 6 people you are directly responsible for providing for. That should cover their food,cleaning, better nutrition and medical conditions - as well as providing the opportunity for your ex to upgrade her makeup products and routine and be able to relax and bin some stuff and order in some organic vegetables and fruit for.your children and mYbe in the nights off when you are babysitting or paying for one - to do a cookery course .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    If you are going to spend 75% more money on them it might be worth their while - might give them a nice luxury break without watching a streatehed out parent trying to scrimp to survive and their mother can stop living hand to mouth and not have to share a pittance of 25% of an income with 5 other needy mouths. Of course we all know it is easier and cheaper to eat junk and things like pizzas and nuggets and readymades - let alone not having to shop every 3 days for fresh fruits or organic vegetables - but heyho - lets go for child abuse rather than impovrished or overwhelmed or that old excuse -exhausted.


    Its remarkable how someone who dosnt live in the house and dosnt sleep.over knows her bedtime routine intimately - but of course you're just speculating arn't you - cos you don't live there anymore? She never takes her make up off except with make up wipes mid-evening before rushing back out? And after she has cleaned her face reapplies fresh makeup. Wow. I bet Tulsa will be straight down to her for that. Naughty mammy. No toner or moisturiser. And a modern timesaving bestseller product sold en masse - Take her children away. Off with her head.She isnt washing it to your standard so she dosn't deserve it.

    Head lice are swapped from child to childs head and unless painstaking daily care is taken with each child are notoriously difficult to get rid of. And they are only attracted to CLEAN hair. Maybe if they were dirtier it would be better for them - but heyho they seem to have clean hair. Tulsa will tell you that too. Perhaps you'd like to head over to to your childrens home and spend an hour and a half or two hours shampooing and currycombing out the five heads of your children before they go.to school - and wash all their sheets,pillowcases,pillows and duvets - before returning to do it again in the evening - every day until they are gone? They are your children. It seems your rather strip them of their home albeit chaotic and lumber some unfortunate foster family with the burden - not to mention the hardworking taxpayer family who will have to shell out to suppoort someone else minding your children because you won't. - rather than do it yourself . It seems you're available daily - you not working at the moment - for someone as outraged as you are it shouldnt be too big a effort to make. After all - you do care - and they are your responsibility - them being your children and all.

    There are nice suggestions of paying for a cleaner and home help here - how about you also check that your struggling ex has alao paid for her *and your childrens) bin charges - and so can throw out her refuse - and is not scrimping and strugglinging financially so badly that she is storing toys and books and clothes in every available space to hand down to the next one or for when they are needed. I cant imagine 6 people trying to subsist on 25% of a salary having alot of leftover money for the necessities of life. I guess having 75% of.your salary and a redundency package to spend all on yourself you wouldnt be as familiar with the scrounging and desperation of someone struggling with loans and basic survival.

    My overall suggeation would be to stop emotionally bullying your ex with threats of having the state and taxpayer take away her family. Many of the problems you outline here can be solved in one simple change - keep 25% of your salary for yourself and give the 75% to the other 5 or 6 people you are directly responsible for providing for. That should cover their food,cleaning, better nutrition and medical conditions - as well as providing the opportunity for your ex to upgrade her makeup products and routine and be able to relax and bin some stuff and order in some organic vegetables and fruit for.your children and mYbe in the nights off when you are babysitting or paying for one - to do a cookery course .

    I may be unreg for the purposes of this conversation but that doesn't mean I'm gonna lie down and take abuse from someone who clearly has an agenda. This is just plain ignorant.

    I checked every one of their heads when I had them over last night and even though only one had head lice, they all got treated.

    With regard to my pittance of 25% of my salary, I have a meagre one. I also have my own bills and I shouldn't be financing bills she has accrued. I contributed to her bins before but she left that lapse and they no longer have a bin collection as a result. She has a Sky sub with both sports and movies even though no one in the house watches sports, except (rarely) the Irish rugby and GAA which are all available on Freeview. I've given them Netflix subs for their TV which they don't use coz they prefer the TV guide on Sky. She insisted on buying a 7 seater jeep last year with a 2.2 ltr engine and the car tax and low fuel economy that goes along with it as well as the insurance. I advised her against it but she insisted. And guess who went with her to test drive it and buy it!? You got it. Because I want to see my kids taken care of and that they have the means to get to the places that they need to be.

    In terms of her bedtime routine, I've been there when she's just gotten out of bed and taken the wipes to her face to scrape off yesterday's slap so don't think that I've not got a clue what I'm talking about. And yes, I do sleep over occasionally, couple nights a year, we call it Christmas because we both want our family to be together for the holidays.

    The important thing here is that the kids are going to get the care they so badly need, but you only just want to point out that it's a man against a woman and clearly I'm the one at fault because I have a penis. At least, that's how it reads.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    What. Planet. Are. You. On?
    If you are going to spend 75% more money on them it might be worth their while - might give them a nice luxury break without watching a streatehed out parent trying to scrimp to survive and their mother can stop living hand to mouth and not have to share a pittance of 25% of an income with 5 other needy mouths.

    You have absolutely no idea what the OP works at, earns, or what outgoings he has.
    You have absolutely no idea whether the mother has to scrimp to survive or live hand to mouth.
    Its remarkable how someone who dosnt live in the house and dosnt sleep.over knows her bedtime routine intimately - but of course you're just speculating arn't you - cos you don't live there anymore?

    And you aren't speculating, no? Just surmising, assuming, inferring, presuming? You have no idea what you are talking about.
    Head lice are swapped from child to childs head and unless painstaking daily care is taken with each child are notoriously difficult to get rid of. And they are only attracted to CLEAN hair. Maybe if they were dirtier it would be better for them - but heyho they seem to have clean hair. Tulsa will tell you that too.

    Headlice will live on any head of hair, dirty or clean. The oils in our hair and skin produced by sebaceous glands are an adaption against parasites and their eggs, so lice like clean hair, but the lice are adapted to live with the oils and dander, so they will live on any head of hair. An entomologist will tell you that - or you take ten seconds to google it. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
    There are nice suggestions of paying for a cleaner and home help here - how about you also check that your struggling ex has alao paid for her *and your childrens) bin charges - and so can throw out her refuse - and is not scrimping and strugglinging financially so badly that she is storing toys and books and clothes in every available space to hand down to the next one or for when they are needed. I cant imagine 6 people trying to subsist on 25% of a salary having alot of leftover money for the necessities of life. I guess having 75% of.your salary and a redundency package to spend all on yourself you wouldnt be as familiar with the scrounging and desperation of someone struggling with loans and basic survival.
    My overall suggeation would be to stop emotionally bullying your ex with threats of having the state and taxpayer take away her family.

    Outrageous, incontinent response.


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yes, I take them every weekend, unless I've made plans with my friends which is usually about once every month or every other month. Not often. When she goes out for the overnights, the 5 of them are left alone. In the same town so not really an issue considering there's a 16 year old and an almost 15 year old in the house. I wouldn't mind so much if she answered the phone or responded to texts.

    So, you take them Evey weekend, unless
    you have made other plans!
    Maybe you need to just take them every weekend?
    If your ex is off doing other things, & you don't like your older kids look after your younger kids, then maybe you need to look after them at the weekends?
    They don't need separate bedrooms for weekend. You can take them all. Give them lice treatment shampoo.
    You have lots of room.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,437 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Glad you've got a short term plan in place to start with OP. And we'll done for stepping up.

    I'm sorry to hear she went through similar herself. Could you try and encourage her to get some counselling? I'm not sure how you could go about that but long term it probably is the only thing that can help her permanently. I'd stress that her own experience probably caused her harm through no fault of her own and she can get help for it. Just keep encouraging her gently. It's a terrible thing to go through and I'm sure she doesn't want to replicate that experience with her own kids. You could try that angle.

    Keep the hands on involvement going. Hopefully things will improve for your kids now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 633 ✭✭✭zoe 3619


    If you are going to spend 75% more money on them it might be worth their while - might give them a nice luxury break without watching a streatehed out parent trying to scrimp to survive and their mother can stop living hand to mouth and not have to share a pittance of 25% of an income with 5 other needy mouths. Of course we all know it is easier and cheaper to eat junk and things like pizzas and nuggets and readymades - let alone not having to shop every 3 days for fresh fruits or organic vegetables - but heyho - lets go for child abuse rather than impovrished or overwhelmed or that old excuse -exhausted.


    Its remarkable how someone who dosnt live in the house and dosnt sleep.over knows her bedtime routine intimately - but of course you're just speculating arn't you - cos you don't live there anymore? She never takes her make up off except with make up wipes mid-evening before rushing back out? And after she has cleaned her face reapplies fresh makeup. Wow. I bet Tulsa will be straight down to her for that. Naughty mammy. No toner or moisturiser. And a modern timesaving bestseller product sold en masse - Take her children away. Off with her head.She isnt washing it to your standard so she dosn't deserve it.

    Head lice are swapped from child to childs head and unless painstaking daily care is taken with each child are notoriously difficult to get rid of. And they are only attracted to CLEAN hair. Maybe if they were dirtier it would be better for them - but heyho they seem to have clean hair. Tulsa will tell you that too. Perhaps you'd like to head over to to your childrens home and spend an hour and a half or two hours shampooing and currycombing out the five heads of your children before they go.to school - and wash all their sheets,pillowcases,pillows and duvets - before returning to do it again in the evening - every day until they are gone? They are your children. It seems your rather strip them of their home albeit chaotic and lumber some unfortunate foster family with the burden - not to mention the hardworking taxpayer family who will have to shell out to suppoort someone else minding your children because you won't. - rather than do it yourself . It seems you're available daily - you not working at the moment - for someone as outraged as you are it shouldnt be too big a effort to make. After all - you do care - and they are your responsibility - them being your children and all.

    There are nice suggestions of paying for a cleaner and home help here - how about you also check that your struggling ex has alao paid for her *and your childrens) bin charges - and so can throw out her refuse - and is not scrimping and strugglinging financially so badly that she is storing toys and books and clothes in every available space to hand down to the next one or for when they are needed. I cant imagine 6 people trying to subsist on 25% of a salary having alot of leftover money for the necessities of life. I guess having 75% of.your salary and a redundency package to spend all on yourself you wouldnt be as familiar with the scrounging and desperation of someone struggling with loans and basic survival.

    My overall suggeation would be to stop emotionally bullying your ex with threats of having the state and taxpayer take away her family. Many of the problems you outline here can be solved in one simple change - keep 25% of your salary for yourself and give the 75% to the other 5 or 6 people you are directly responsible for providing for. That should cover their food,cleaning, better nutrition and medical conditions - as well as providing the opportunity for your ex to upgrade her makeup products and routine and be able to relax and bin some stuff and order in some organic vegetables and fruit for.your children and mYbe in the nights off when you are babysitting or paying for one - to do a cookery course .

    That read like a bit of a rant.
    Came across as a bit harsh,but yes,maybe you could pop round a couple of times a week.The older children should be up for helping out if you offer a trip to the cinema in exchange for the rubbish bagged up ready for a dump run.
    Show them how to cook simple meals-my youngest is 13 and can cook pasta and sauce,scramble/fry eggs,steam veg etc.
    Maybe cook with them,and make sure there's an extra meal for the freezer.
    Sounds like your ex may be going through a bad patch.
    Might be good to show support and take a bit more of the weight.Other than that things get acrimonious and that's never ideal.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    bubblypop wrote: »
    So, you take them Evey weekend, unless
    you have made other plans!
    Maybe you need to just take them every weekend?
    If your ex is off doing other things, & you don't like your older kids look after your younger kids, then maybe you need to look after them at the weekends?
    They don't need separate bedrooms for weekend. You can take them all. Give them lice treatment shampoo.
    You have lots of room.

    OP lives with his father. He does not have lots of room, it's not his house.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    zoe 3619 wrote: »
    That read like a bit of a rant.
    Came across as a bit harsh,but yes,maybe you could pop round a couple of times a week.The older children should be up for helping out if you offer a trip to the cinema in exchange for the rubbish bagged up ready for a dump run.
    Show them how to cook simple meals-my youngest is 13 and can cook pasta and sauce,scramble/fry eggs,steam veg etc.
    Maybe cook with them,and make sure there's an extra meal for the freezer.
    Sounds like your ex may be going through a bad patch.
    Might be good to show support and take a bit more of the weight.Other than that things get acrimonious and that's never ideal.

    There is more to rearing and being responsible for your 5 children than 'popping around on a short term basis ' a few times a week and giving 25% of your salary for 6 people to subsist off and threatening your ex that if she dosnt do better he will have them taken from her and shunted into foster homes.

    The biggest issue here is the sense of entitlement of the father and his bullying approach to a problem he has casually underresourced and offloaded onto his ex that he has all the capacity and resources to fix.


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wiggle16 wrote: »
    OP lives with his father. He does not have lots of room, it's not his house.

    He lives with his father in a 3 bed house! Lots of room for weekends.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    There is more to rearing and being responsible for your 5 children than 'popping around ' a few times a week and giving 25% of your salary for 6 people to subsist off and thrratenung your ex that if she dosnt do better he will have them shunted into foster homes.

    Did you even read the post?

    I'm doing everything in my power not to put them into foster care and will stop at nothing to ensure that doesn't happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    bubblypop wrote: »
    He lives with his father in a 3 bed house! Lots of room for weekends.

    He lives with his father - and dosnt work - time for a.month off for the mother before he starts his new job - he can do a 30 day stint with his own children and give her a break. And the 75%. Should give her a chance to buy makeup remover to his liking and take a few toys off the floor and hallway.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    bubblypop wrote: »
    He lives with his father in a 3 bed house! Lots of room for weekends.

    It's not his house.

    For all you know, the reason he lives with the father is because the father is ill or bedridden. Or it may be otherwise unsuited for the children. If it were this simple, do you think the OP would be posting at all?

    You shouldn't make assumptions about what the OP can or cannot offer to ameliorate the situation. It is not his house. The issue is the state of the house the children are living in now. Not how many bedrooms are in his father's house.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    There are enough red flags in his argument for a communist party parade


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭Fakediamond


    There’s all kinds of assumptions being made here.

    Maybe his father is ill or just doesn’t want to deal with 5 kids in his space on a regular basis. Regarding financial support , no one on here knows how much income is going into the house on a weekly basis, or why his ex owes so much money. It’s possible that it’s being spent irresponsibly, in which case throwing money at the problem won’t make any difference in the long run. There’s a lot of harsh judgements being made on both parents really, when we only have limited information.


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wiggle16 wrote: »
    It's not his house.

    For all you know, the reason he lives with the father is because the father is ill or bedridden. Or it may be otherwise unsuited for the children. If it were this simple, do you think the OP would be posting at all?

    You shouldn't make assumptions about what the OP can or cannot offer to ameliorate the situation. It is not his house. The issue is the state of the house the children are living in now. Not how many bedrooms are in his father's house.

    They are his kids, he should be doing something about their situation if he doesn't like it.
    All he said is he is living with his father ina 3 bed house. So, plenty of room for 5 kids unless there is some other information?
    Why is this the mothers issue? He is their father, do something about it apart from just expecting one other person to raise his kids on 25% of his income


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    There’s all kinds of assumptions being made here.

    Maybe his father is ill or just doesn’t want to deal with 5 kids in his space on a regular basis. Regarding financial support , no one on here knows how much income is going into the house on a weekly basis, or why his ex owes so much money. It’s possible that it’s being spent irresponsibly, in which case throwing money at the problem won’t make any difference in the long run. There’s a lot of harsh judgements being made on both parents really, when we only have limited information.

    We know from the OP that he is the father of these 5 children. He has a responsibility to parent, care for and provide for them. He privides 25% of his incime to support 6 people and keeps 75% for himself. He says he could rent a house for them but then he would be as poor as the mother. He has not kept 25% or even 50% for himself but almost all his income. He has kept a redundency payment to himself and until pressed not offered it for the upkeep of his children or to support his families needs.

    He has 5 children. Spot the irresponsible adult


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    bubblypop wrote: »
    They are his kids, he should be doing something about their situation if he doesn't like it.
    All he said is he is living with his father ina 3 bed house. So, plenty of room for 5 kids unless there is some other information?
    Why is this the mothers issue? He is their father, do something about it apart from just expecting one other person to raise his kids on 25% of his income

    Why would you assume the kids can live there? Why are you making assumptions at all?
    It is not his house. It is his father's house. Would it have occurred to you that the father might not want the kids in his house, maybe? Or that the father may be ill? Or that there may be some other reason why they can't? Such as the fact that they live 30 miles away?

    It is the mother's issue. She has the kids living with her. But she won't look after them properly. Why are you criticising him instead of the mother? You say she needs a break, but she's not working, or looking after her kids. What is it she needs a break from?

    The OP has said he would take them if he could, and has said he can't. You want him to "do something about it" - did you read the title of the OP at all?
    Many women raise kids on no income other than their own. You have no idea what he earns. You're assuming he earns enough to have lots of disposable income. You cannot just assume that. If he did, would he be living with his father?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    some absolutely disgraceful hatchet job reactions here

    for one thing, it should be obvious to anyone that the single parent who has the 5 kids living with her is highly unlikely to be left with only the maintenance paid as an income, so speculating that there is a split of 75/25 and thats all there is to it is just nonsense

    the projection of anger from some posters on to the OP is ugly stuff given the situation he is trying to improve.

    that said OP, the jump from "this situation isnt right" straight to threats to the mother is a leap too far. there are a couple dozen things that can be looked at that would help before that approach is taken, many of which are covered already in the thread.

    aside from the other good suggestions about a big cleanup, being there and showing how to cook/wash/clean a few nights a week, etc, Id suggest you check out what utilities and bills are setup automatically and which ones are causing problems when they come up.

    if you were sure that bins were always going to be collected and that the hot water wasnt an expense saving measure it would be a good start, and better than cash imo.

    id also say that at 16 and close to 15 theres two kids at least that not only should, but need to be stepping up here both because of the example to the others and to be shown that they can and should be doing it. if their mother isnt able to do this then its on you, and youre going to have to be around to do it, first to demonstrate but then in the longer term to enforce it getting done.

    best of luck and never mind the snipers in the thread. anything you do is better than leaving it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    Such a sad situation. It’s hard to know what to suggest, but on the face of it, it does sound like the mother of the kids is struggling (whether through wilful neglect, or inability to cope, I don’t know. Possibly a bit of both).

    It’s not something I’ve experience of, but it can’t be easy for her being the main caregiver for 5 kids. It does seem like at least 2 of your kids are old enough to know better though. I don’t understand why they don’t have household chores to do, why they can’t take out rubbish, or do a bit of tidying. I know I had to do those things from when I was about 10. They’re also old enough to do simple cooking.

    The situation with lice would freak me out. But I can also remember running away from my mother when she tried to brush my very long hair, so if there’s a million other things going on, maybe that just didn’t register on her radar as an immediate priority.

    I get that you are hurting for your kids. I don’t know whether you could afford to give more money, or whether they could spend weekends with you (as you live in your fathers house). But it’s clear that the current arrangement simply is not working. So if you can’t give more money (which I’m not even sure would solve much), can you give more time/help? As in seeing if your father would mind the kids doing a sleepover every Saturday. Or failing that, you going to where the kids live a day or two a week, and helping with cooking / cleaning / homework?

    I personally think it’s far too early to be talking of social services, until you have exhausted every possibility of what more you can do for your kids. That’s not meant to get at you. I just wonder could you sacrifice more money - or preferably more of your time and involvement.


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