Australia Trials Cashless Welfare Card

PirateShampoo

In March of this year Australia embarked on a 1 year trial of using a debit card style system for Welfare payments.

This card cannot be used to withdraw cash, has and a set limit of how much can be used on cigarettes and alcohol.

People on this card still have access to a small amount of cash as 80% of your payment goes to the card and the rest is sent to your bank account.

The Australian government is hailing the trial a success already with trial community's saying public disorder and gambling issues are on the down.


It feels a bit like rationing and a return to Butter Vouchers. I can also see the merits in it in poorer areas, but as a single guy who has been on the dole this system would be a complete pain in the arse, I can also see how it could be exploited with people selling the use of thier card for cash. It's also another step in the direction of a cashless society. If the trial ends in a complete success I would expect other countries to start looking at this system.

www.dss.gov.au/families-and-children/programmes-services/welfare-conditionality/cashless-debit-card-overview

bear1

If people are up in arms at the PSC and crying foul that it's like a form of ID then I cannot see the government suggesting this here.
The Irish don't generally like change.

Agent Coulson

An independent study into its impact in East Kimberley and Ceduna – both home to large Aboriginal populations – showed a big drop in alcohol abuse and family violence.
Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said it would now be rolled out into a third site – the Goldfields region in Western Australia.
“This is an exercise in practical love, in compassion, in ensuring the taxpayers’ dollars are not being spent on substance abuse and drugs leading to violence,” he told reporters.

http://www.thejournal.ie/australia-welfare-card-3576674-Sep2017/

Canis Lupus

It's a 'solution' to a problem with specific areas of Australia. Some of the aboriginal areas are pretty far out by all accounts. I watched a doco one night and in one place (where they implemented the card) they literally have a bus drive about to collect people out of their heads/passed out from drink. It's fair enough to cry out nanny state but you have to try something I guess. There are people who don't have drinking problems etc caught up in it but if it helps the lives of an entire community then I reckon it's a small price.

Greybottle

They could start here by arranging that Rent Allowance is paid directly to Landlords, but they can't even get that right.

Captain Obvious

There will always be people who will find a way to scam any system that is brought in. I'm much more a fan of the universal income idea and eliminate most social welfare payments along with it.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Great idea if used properly! Hope they need ID to use it in supermarkets. Hopefully Ireland will bring similar in

steddyeddy

God almighty people stop worrying about welfare. If you're the squeezed middle as you call yourselves then stop looking to blame other people for your situation. Look at your own life choices. Maybe you didn't work hard enough in life. Maybe some of you relied on your parents handouts too much.

99% of the time people on the dole aren't happy to be on the dole. If it's such a life of luxury then quit your jobs and go on the dole.

LuckyLloyd

steddyeddy wrote: »

God almighty people stop worrying about welfare. If you're the squeezed middle as you call yourselves then stop looking to blame other people for your situation. Look at your own life choices. Maybe you didn't work hard enough in life. Maybe some of you relied on your parents handouts too much.

99% of the time people on the dole aren't happy to be on the dole. If it's such a life of luxury then quit your jobs and go on the dole.

Ha, well said. Divide and conquer.

steddyeddy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ha, well said. Divide and conquer.

Well I don't understand it. There's posters from good backgrounds complaining about being squeezed and finding it tough to live on their over-taxed waged. Then in the same breath, they criticise those on the dole and preach that they are poor because of their own life choices.

So in other words the poor are poor because of the poor and the moany middle are struggling because of the poor. I think they should apply their principles to themselves. Not doing well in life = poor life choices.

Wanderer78

Great to see a country being so 'pro-active' in dealing with its complex social issues! Next!

Captain Obvious

steddyeddy wrote: »

God almighty people stop worrying about welfare. If you're the squeezed middle as you call yourselves then stop looking to blame other people for your situation. Look at your own life choices. Maybe you didn't work hard enough in life. Maybe some of you relied on your parents handouts too much.

99% of the time people on the dole aren't happy to be on the dole. If it's such a life of luxury then quit your jobs and go on the dole.

What are you basing this on? Why exactly should I not be concerned about where the money taken out of my weekly pay is going?

steddyeddy

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What are you basing this on? Why exactly should I not be concerned about where the money taken out of my weekly pay is going?

Because the dole bashers seem to have zero clue about where their money goes. You had one specimen on the last thread saying 40% of his income goes on people who abuse the dole.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

This isn't the last thread though and the only one trying to steer this thread towards dole bashing is actually you, the rest of us were discussing a system in Australia.

steddyeddy

LexieOnRale wrote: »

This isn't the last thread though and the only one trying to steer this thread towards dole bashing is actually you, the rest of us were discussing a system in Australia.

A system which emulates the system in America. A system aimed at dole users. A system some people think could be implemented here.

It's hard to see where I got dole from alright.

steddyeddy

So why exactly would I want dole users to feel more embarrassed about being on the dole?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

They're not, they're going to buy their groceries, whatever they want, with a prepaid card and get 20% of their payment into the bank. They're not being asked to perform tricks like circus monkeys for it.

steddyeddy

LexieOnRale wrote: »

They're not, they're going to buy their groceries, whatever they want, with a prepaid card and get 20% of their payment into the bank. They're not being asked to perform tricks like circus monkeys for it.

So they're being singled out. I don't believe in singling out people on the dole. I believe in getting them back to work. I work in the states half the time. The system is similar there and it's a cause of great embarrassment to people.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

How are they being singled out? They're recieving a state payment on a pre loaded card. Most people will need to spend the money on food anyway, tomato/tomatoe its all the same thing

Ineedaname

LexieOnRale wrote: »

How are they being singled out? They're recieving a state payment on a pre loaded card. Most people will need to spend the money on food anyway, tomato/tomatoe its all the same thing

What's the point of it then?

steddyeddy

LexieOnRale wrote: »

How are they being singled out? They're recieving a state payment on a pre loaded card. Most people will need to spend the money on food anyway, tomato/tomatoe its all the same thing

I don't understand your post.

Question: How are they being singled out?

Answer: They're bring given a pre-loaded card.

steddyeddy

Ineedaname wrote: »

What's the point of it then?

The same posters bring it up again and again. They want the dole to be for what they see as essential purchases.

Ineedaname

steddyeddy wrote: »

The se posters bring it up again and again. They want the dole to be for what they see as essential purchases.

What exactly qualifies as "essential"?

Captain Obvious

steddyeddy wrote: »

I don't understand your post.

Question: How are they being singled out?

Answer: They're bring given a pre-loaded card.

As opposed to going to a post office to collect money? Are they not already being singled out by being provided the money?

begbysback

Ineedaname wrote: »

What exactly qualifies as "essential"?

WiFi, toilet rolls, cappuccino and nutts subscription

Everything after that is living large

steddyeddy

Captain Obvious wrote: »

As opposed to going to a post office to collect money? Are they not already being singled out by being provided the money?

Good point. They're already being singled out. A lot of people on the dole feel stigma and hate every minute of it. So why would we single them out further?

Agent Coulson

There is one way not to single them out then stop all social welfare payments to everyone and get rid of the welfare system altogether.


No one is singled out then.

gctest50

Canis Lupus wrote: »

It's a 'solution' to a problem with specific areas of Australia. ..........

That's what happens when you take over a country and take all the nice bits by the coast for yourself and send the natives to the sh!tty part in the centre

and kill off most of them

steddyeddy

Agent Coulson wrote: »

There is one way not to single them out then stop all social welfare payments to everyone and get rid of the welfare system altogether.

And there's a lot of ways to single them out more. This being one of them.

Ineedaname

A vast majority of the welfare bill is on pensions.

Would this apply to them too?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

wasnt there an article a few months back discussing how some families couldn't afford tpons for their teenage children? If their state benefit can only be accepted in stores then surely this will help the families who are in poverty and real need?

steddyeddy

I presume the proponents of this feel pensioners should also have this card? After all far more tax goes to them.

steddyeddy

Ineedaname wrote: »

A vast majority of the welfare bill is on pensions.

Would this apply to them too?

Snap. No, often with welfare bashers they want to target things that only apply other people.

Ineedaname

LexieOnRale wrote: »

wasnt there an article a few months back discussing how some families couldn't afford tpons for their teenage children? If their state benefit can only be accepted in stores then surely this will help the families who are in poverty and real need?

How would it do that?

Mr. teddywinkles

LexieOnRale wrote: »

wasnt there an article a few months back discussing how some families couldn't afford tpons for their teenage children? If their state benefit can only be accepted in stores then surely this will help the families who are in poverty and real need?

Well if it pays all there bills from car insurance to toilet roll. If I had it long term it would be some sort of magic card. Paying all my bills.
Funny thing about the dole as is. When I was on it. It didn't exactly pay for everything. As a matter of fact it was ****e money and I had to substitute a lot of the extra money out of my savings most weeks being on it. Yes there people drawing money for 30 kids here and there. Taking the piss

Captain Obvious

steddyeddy wrote: »

Snap. No, often with welfare bashers they want to target things that only apply other people.

Let me get you a stepladder so you can get down from your horse safely.

The reason people have an issue with the dole is that it allows a person to go through their whole life being supported by the state and providing nothing in return. The last estimate I saw was one in seven people on the dole had never worked before. People see this as parasitic behaviour. What makes it harder to accept is that high crime anti social areas seem to have a very high proportion of these claimants. Your average Joe isn't going to see all the strings that contribute to this kind of situation and look at it in a more simple way.

The reason people don't have the same issue with pensions is that we are all entitled to it in our later years. This is why a universal income would be more palatable to most people, because it's effectively a pension for life.

steddyeddy

So anyway I presume proponents of this system would extend it to pensioners?

caniask86

Jobs should give this card to workers who they feel might go out on the weekend drinking or spend money on things that the employer doesn't agree with and not spend their money on groceries. It's alright cause they will get 20% in cash.

Captain Obvious

caniask86 wrote: »

Jobs should give this card to workers who they feel might go out on the weekend drinking or spend money on things that the employer doesn't agree with and not spend their money on groceries. It's alright cause they will get 20% in cash.

Aw man, has nobody ever explained to you the difference between working for a wage and getting a supportive payment from the government? Do you actually not comprehend the difference between a wage and job seekers benefit? That's a pretty sad reflection on you to be honest.

Wheeliebin30

Seems we have the highest rate of jobless households in Europe which means father's sons grandsons mothers daughters granddaughters all unemployed.

There is a cycle and I welcome any initiative which might help break this cycle.

Cloudio9

steddyeddy wrote: »

So anyway I presume proponents of this system would extend it to pensioners?

Ultimately it could be extended to everyone and only a certain percentage of salary could be spent on alcohol and nights out and sugary drinks. Binge drinking, obesity and public disorder sorted. The state can solve all problems :pac:

Pkiernan

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well I don't understand it. There's posters from good backgrounds complaining about being squeezed and finding it tough to live on their over-taxed waged. Then in the same breath, they criticise those on the dole and preach that they are poor because of their own life choices.

So in other words the poor are poor because of the poor and the moany middle are struggling because of the poor. I think they should apply their principles to themselves. Not doing well in life = poor life choices.

Thing is that I am doing well in life. But i would be doing a lot better if i wasn't taxed at 54% to pay for lazy layabouts.

Only left wing dingbats can think that creating multi generational welfare ghettos is somehow compassionate and caring.

Dole should be an embarrassing last resort, not a lifestyle.

steddyeddy

Pkiernan wrote: »

Thing is that I am doing well in life. But i would be doing a lot better if i wasn't taxed at 54% to pay for lazy layabouts.

Only left wing dingbats can think that creating multi generational welfare ghettos is somehow compassionate and caring.

Dole should be an embarrassing last resort, not a lifestyle.

The government is taking 54% of your income for dole users....

caniask86

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Aw man, has nobody ever explained to you the difference between working for a wage and getting a supportive payment from the government? Do you actually not comprehend the difference between a wage and job seekers benefit? That's a pretty sad reflection on you to be honest.

I work myself but my point being that you are completely controlling what the money is spend on. That isn't nice for anyone.

Ineedaname

steddyeddy wrote: »

The government is taking 54% of your income for dole users....

News to me

Ush1

When it comes to getting people to do what you want, the stick has never worked.

begbysback

Ush1 wrote: »

When it comes to getting people to do what you want, the stick has never worked.

I think they put the money on a card

Captain Obvious

caniask86 wrote: »

I work myself but my point being that you are completely controlling what the money is spend on. That isn't nice for anyone.

It's not complete control by any means. 20% into the bank account to spend on anything you want and you can use the other 80% on all but a very few things. It's not supposed to be nice, it's supposed to give you basic financial support between jobs. It's not a gift.

pablo128

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Aw man, has nobody ever explained to you the difference between working for a wage and getting a supportive payment from the government? Do you actually not comprehend the difference between a wage and job seekers benefit? That's a pretty sad reflection on you to be honest.

Lets say someone is working in a low paid job and getting FIS on top. Does the job give them a pre-loaded card for their wages? After all they are in receipt of social welfare.

Or is it difficult for you to comprehend someone in such a situation?

And as has been asked, would you like this system to be extended to pensioners?

Captain Obvious

pablo128 wrote: »

Lets say someone is working in a low paid job and getting FIS on top. Does the job give them a pre-loaded card for their wages? After all they are in receipt of social welfare.

Or is it difficult for you to comprehend someone in such a situation?

Why would the job be bothered if you are getting social welfare? They pay you for your work done. The social welfare payments are a separate thing. They are in exchange for nothing. By comparing this to wages you are showing a complete ignorance of the difference between working for money and getting money for nothing in return.

pablo128 wrote: »

And as has been asked, would you like this system to be extended to pensioners?

Already answered that above.

Sweetemotion

Why not do it for everyone taking money out of the same pot?

Garda, nurse's, civil servants, farmers and so on. All are getting paid through taxation.