SkyQ prep - existing multiswitch setup, needs upgrading?

KeRbDoG

Hey folks,
I currently have a multiswitch setup as I have various freesat/sky boxes around the house. I'm thinking of going for SkyQ but I've read to get the most out of it, you would need to have a unicable setup, and I've found this (I could get a lower port version) which seems to allow you to take a multiswitch input (could put it inline before the multiswitch) and it would give you outputs to allow you get a unicable like input for a SkyQ box.

Did I over research this ?

I understand you could just change the LNB, run it direct to the SkyQ STB etc. but in my setup, that would just be messy.

Any tips welcome!

KeRbDoG

Follow up question (if anyone gets this far!) - couldn't make it out if that would I need to change the current quad LNB to a quatto LNB.

My current multiswitch has an dip switch setting to allow it to be used with a quad or quatto LNB. I'm guessing it basically sends out the 13/17v and/or 22khz tone to switch the LNB input. A 'normal' multiswitch device that expects a certain freq range from an input from a quatto wouldn't bother sending out this tone right?

The Cush

To use SkyQ with your current setup you'll have to replace your current multiswitch for a dSCR multiswitch which is designed to work with both SkyQ and legacy receivers like the standard Sky/freesat/FTA boxes. Each output is legacy by default but once it detects an SCR receiver connected the output switches to SCR mode. Each output on the dSCR multiswitch has 16 SCR user bands, SkyQ silver has 12 tuners.

The dSCR multiswitch requires a Quattro LNB.

This poster had a problem with an installer who wouldn't setup SkyQ in his home with the new dSCR multiswitch but eventually got sorted

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=99640997
http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057594864/1#post99645479
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=99909448

examples of dSCR multiswitches
http://www.unitrongroup.com/en/products/CAT/MUL/DSCR.html
http://www.triax.uk/FindProduct/ProductDetails.aspx?product={C3F7CAD4-F5AA-47E2-8984-4479ECC5486F}
http://www.triax.uk/FindProduct/ProductDetails.aspx?product={4DDC65D6-0460-4938-B172-A5A46C73EF00}




Overview of dSCR (2015)

KeRbDoG

Cool, so the dSCR multiswitch I have ordered should work will just need to change to a Quattro LNB on the non-sky dish and my existing multiswitch should be able to connect after the dSCR multiswitch.
Thanks for the confirmation, seems I can test it a good before we order up SkyQ

The Cush

Does the dSCR multiswitch you've ordered have the correct SkyQ SCR userband configuration? SkyQ's configuration is their own standard.

The Cush

Why do you want to use your existing multiswitch in conjunction with the dSCR multiswitch which will feed all receivers?

KeRbDoG

The Cush wrote: »

Does the dSCR multiswitch you've ordered have the correct SkyQ SCR userband configuration? SkyQ's configuration is their own standard.

Its a Unitron dSCR-54 which seems to be called out in the 'Sky Homes' Overview of dSCR doc. Fingers crossed

The Cush wrote: »

Why do you want to use your existing multiswitch in conjunction with the dSCR multiswitch which will feed all receivers?

The dSCR multiswitch unit I ordered is only a 4 output version, I have a few 5~6 STBs (server+SatIP+tvheadend, freesat TVs etc.) but I guess some of them might support a single cable distribution system, will need to check. Might have been a better idea just to but a larger number of outputs dSCR multiswitch

The Cush

KeRbDoG wrote: »

and my existing multiswitch should be able to connect after the dSCR multiswitch.

Ref that Overview of dSCR doc you linked to above, read through page 11 regarding the use of DC Blockers on the trunk lines when incorporating the dSCR multiswitch into an existing setup like yours

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=dc-blocker
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/en/product/940483/DC-voltage-blocker-Axing
http://www.triax.uk/FindProduct/ProductDetails.aspx?product=%7B6496C9CB-2A5F-4DF0-8333-C8EC2BC78908%7D

All SAT trunk lines allow DC power pass. Terrestrial trunk line does not allow DC power pass.

Care must be taken at this point in the design of the integration. dSCR’s have a much higher current draw than standard multiswitches and we need to ensure that any dSCR’s that are incorporated within the existing system do not draw current from the rest of the system, which may cause existing power supplies to fail, or injecting higher current into the existing system which can also cause an adverse effect and also cause the system to fail.

We need to look at powering the dSCR’s with separate power supply units to ensure that this does not happen. By doing this, attention needs to be paid also to the dSCR’s trying to back-power the existing system with the wrong voltage. At this point we need to look at incorporating DC blockers at each leg of the dSCR input location to eliminate this possibility.

KeRbDoG

Umm, cool - unsure if the Unitron dSCR-54 will come with the separate 20v PSU. Will pickup the DC Blockers when I go to pickup the Quattro LNB. I'm guessing the separate 20v PSU isn't a standard item which someone could pickup in the likes of SatWorld?

The Cush

The manual for the new Unitron/Johansson range of dSCR multiswitches indicates it's an optional item.

This is the recommended power supply for that multiswitch, Unitron 2460UK/Johansson AE9936
http://www.grax.co.uk/product/johanssondscrpoweradapter-4008

This is the Triax dSCR power supply which appears to be similar
http://www.triax.uk/FindProduct/ProductDetails.aspx?product=585255fb-57dc-4c5f-8ec8-0efd41e50983
http://www.satshop.co.uk/triax-1230/p/1525

KeRbDoG

The Cush wrote: »

The manual for the new Unitron/Johansson range of dSCR multiswitches indicates it's an optional item.

This is the recommended power supply for that multiswitch, Unitron 2460UK/Johansson AE9936
http://www.grax.co.uk/product/johanssondscrpoweradapter-4008

This is the Triax dSCR power supply which appears to be similar
http://www.triax.uk/FindProduct/ProductDetails.aspx?product=585255fb-57dc-4c5f-8ec8-0efd41e50983
http://www.satshop.co.uk/triax-1230/p/1525

Thanks for the tips. Item to add to the list - I've requested pricing from a few Irish suppliers. If they don't/can't supply I can hit up SatShop.co.uk

KeRbDoG

Received;
- dSCR multiswitch
- dSCR PSU
- Quattro LNB installed on existing 80cm non-Sky oval dish

All tested without having existing multiswitch daisy chained to the dSCR, worked fine with legacy devices attached to the outputs.
Just awaiting the DC Blockers so I can attach the existing multiswitch to the dSCR multiswitch trunk outputs.

Thanks again for the tips 'The Cush'

The Cush

Which PSU did you get and how much?

KeRbDoG

Got the Triax 1230 - couldn't find another on a non-trade site.
Bought from SatShop.co.uk
http://www.satshop.co.uk/triax-1230/p/1525

£55.00 using parcel motel

Mad money for a PSU but feck it the dSCR was a fraction of the Triax version and should I want to expand the dSCR setup and remove the old multiswitch, it will power those too

KeRbDoG

DC-Blockers installed inline between the dSCR multiswitch and the existing multiswitch, dSCR supplying an existing Sky+ box in legacy mode and the existing multiswitch supplying everything else. Will plan to re-run most cabling again to clean it up more.
Even have the terrestrial signal also though the dSCR and on-through the existing multiswitch. Everything is working great - now, when to pull the trigger on SkyQ

The Cush

Thanks for all the feedback, might be of help to others in future in a similar situation.

ei9go

Great interesting thread.

About to install similar system in sons new house.

Six rooms so twelve points

Two cables to each room done to a central point

Four cables to dish done

One cable for antenna done.

What would you recommend for the dish / lnb / multiswitch ?

KeRbDoG

Depends on a lot, initial questions;
- how many of the 6 rooms will have active sat equipment attached
- is he planning on a SkyQ setup or just 'free'sat or a combo of both

ei9go

Not getting Sky but would be nice to be able to allow for it if the price was reasonable

The number of rooms in use does not matter with the multiswitch, it just allows you to connect more boxes as when you want to.

The Cush

ei9go wrote: »

Not getting Sky but would be nice to be able to allow for it if the price was reasonable

The number of rooms in use does not matter with the multiswitch, it just allows you to connect more boxes as when you want to.

The number of rooms/feeds will determine which multiswitch you purchase, a 5x12 will future proof for all TV points, a 5x8 or 5x4 could leave you looking for outputs in future.

A SkyQ compatible multiswitch will be more expensive than a standard multiswitch, so if there are no plans to go with Sky in the near future a standard multiswitch will be the cheaper option.

Suggestion here for 2 cable splitter faceplates if he hasn't already been sorted - http://www.vision-products.co.uk/catalogue/product/V33-23PLUS#content1-tab

ei9go wrote: »

What would you recommend for the dish / lnb / multiswitch ?

Standard non-Sky 80cm dish with Quattro LNB, lots of choice out there.

ei9go

Thanks for that.

Faceplates with TV FM SAT and Ethernet all sorted.

Lots of multiswitches on Amazon in the 70 Pound range and thats why I asked the question. Will be getting a 12 way so that the whole house is done day one.

If you pay more what do you get for the money?

Any specific recommendation for the dish and LNB would be helpful as I have only put up Sky dishes previously.

The Cush

ei9go wrote: »

If you pay more what do you get for the money?

Not sure, brand name maybe?

ei9go wrote: »

Any specific recommendation for the dish and LNB would be helpful as I have only put up Sky dishes previously.

No specific recommendations, Triax is one that comes to mind.

have a look at the Irish online retailers
http://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/80cm-satellite-Dish.html#SID=9
http://www.satworld.ie/satellite-dishes-and-lnbs/satellite-dishes/
http://www.freetv.ie/satellite/dishes/universal/

KeRbDoG

ei9go wrote: »

The number of rooms in use does not matter with the multiswitch, it just allows you to connect more boxes as when you want to.

The question was more to see if the plan was to install and get SkyQ and/or to have a few non-recording generic sat boxes. SkyQ A SkyQ setup doesn't need more sat feeds beyond the primary STB for multiroom viewing with a direct run to a dish with their dSCR LNB installed (or a dSCR multiswitch setup) and the additional room STB(s) which I believe just use a (wireless?) network connect instead to stream from the primary STB.

ei9go wrote: »

Lots of multiswitches on Amazon in the 70 Pound range and thats why I asked the question. Will be getting a 12 way so that the whole house is done day one.

If you pay more what do you get for the money?

If you say pay more for a 9X12 multiswitch you could also feed in a second dish for another sat feed which could be selected by any output via DiSEqC. If you only want to get channels from one sat, stay with a 5x12.
You need to know if the multiswitch you are looking at supports Quad(or Octo) LNB or just a Quattro LNB. Will impact the dish you select.

The two options for an LNB - a Quad/Octo or Quattro LNB.
Quattro
- Advantage, seems to be standard for the 'non-amateur' installer, also meant to deliver a stronger signal when the signal is split though a multiswitch
- Disadvantage, you can't get one for a standard Sky dish so you will need to use a 'normal' dish. I'm sure you could bodge it but the dish will never focus it 100% correctly to the LNB
Quad or Octo
- Advantage of Quad is that you can get a standard sky dish and a Quad LNB. Dis
- Disadvantage, you need a multiswitch which supports a Quad LNB for a multiswitch setup. EMP-Centauri support them. The suggestion also is that the signal is weaker than using a Quattro LNB

ei9go

Thanks for your replies

Everything ok with the attached selection?

The Cush

ei9go wrote: »

Everything ok with the attached selection?

Looks OK to me.

ei9go

The Cush wrote: »

Looks OK to me.

I know I forgot the wall bracket but I have since added that. Presume there will be u bolts or clamps with the dish kit to attach it

The Cush

Yes, they normally come with the dish.

ei9go

Ordered.

Thanks for the input.

Any difference setting up a quattro lnb than a normal sky one.

Would I connect two cables from the meter to look at high and low at the same time and try to balance the signal strengths.

The Cush

ei9go wrote: »

Any difference setting up a quattro lnb than a normal sky one.

Would I connect two cables from the meter to look at high and low at the same time and try to balance the signal strengths.

No difference, when I'm setting up a regular LNB I always check a couple of frequencies across the bands.

KeRbDoG

Note about the quattro->Multiswitch - each input will be for a certain frequency band;
V/Hi
V/Lo
H/Hi
H/Lo

Will be marked on the quattro LNB and the multiswitch, just be sure to match them up. You can get a multi-core coax cable with colour coded inner coax cables to help but that might be overkill for what your installing.

Wall bracket, to mount it on a wall - they normally don't come with dishes unless stated.

ei9go

Anyway, son got the keys of the new house from the builders and i installed the multiswitch and the triax 80cm dish.

I was truly amazed at the huge signal levels it receives compared to previous experience with sky dishes.

100% signal and 100% quality out of the multiswitch.

Found setting the elevation fiddly with the triax dish because of the way the design allows movement in different directions all at the same time.

So thanks for the input.

ethernet

Nice to see the new setup working for you, OP.

Just one thing to be aware of when you make the move to Sky Q. I also migrated from a legacy multiswitch to a Triax model that supports dSCR. The two installers couldn´t get the Sky Q box working until I suggested they go into the installer menu (which they didn´t know how to do) to change the LNB setting from Wideband to SCR. Now it seems to work fine. Hopefully any installer you get will be more clued in.

KeRbDoG

Made the move about 2 months ago, was plug and play from what I saw