Catholic bishops not obliged to report clerical child abuse, Vatican says

BigJackC

The Catholic church is telling newly appointed bishops that it is “not necessarily” their duty to report accusations of clerical child abuse and that only victims or their families should make the decision to report abuse to police.

A document that spells out how senior clergy members ought to deal with allegations of abuse, which was recently released by the Vatican, emphasised that, though they must be aware of local laws, bishops’ only duty was to address such allegations internally.

“According to the state of civil laws of each country where reporting is obligatory, it is not necessarily the duty of the bishop to report suspects to authorities, the police or state prosecutors in the moment when they are made aware of crimes or sinful deeds,” the training document states.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/10/catholic-bishops-not-obliged-report-clerical-child-abuse-vatican-says

Is there any other legal organisation on the planet that instructs its members to turn a blind eye to child abuse? In any case where it's found that bishops or other members of the Catholic church knowingly turned a blind eye, we should absolutely prosecute them as accessories along with the abuser(s).

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Religion aside, job aside.
Anyone who stands back and doesn't report someone who is a danger to children is an absolute cu nt.

Wibbs

That official missive is nothing short of evil. That they apparently can't see that speaks volumes. That they still haven't copped on and are still attempting to brush it under the carpet and have the stones to be public about it? That truly beggars belief.

osarusan

Shows all the nonsense they spouted over the last few years for the tokenistic lip-service bullsh!t it really was.

kneemos

That they have got the wit not to touch anything concerning child abuse is very disturbing.

Akrasia

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/10/catholic-bishops-not-obliged-report-clerical-child-abuse-vatican-says
bishops’ only duty was to address such allegations internally.

Holy Sh1t. Have we gone back in time?

Is the new pope's honeymoon period over yet. He's just as bad as all the monsters that came before him

They are obsessed with sex between consenting adults while turning a blind eye to people in their own organisation who prey on innocent children

Evil thy name is 'The Vatican'

Wibbs

That the laity still support this organisation is as troubling for me.

Ken.

I fully believe that anyone becoming a priest should be neutered. If they are that committed to their imaginary friend they should have no problem submitting to it.

Akrasia

ken wrote: »

I fully believe that anyone becoming a priest should be neutered. If they are that committed to their imaginary friend they should have no problem submitting to it.

It might also improve their terrible singing at mass


Bring back the Castrati

ectoraige

Census 2016 approaching - how many people are going to tick the Catholic box?

osarusan

Has this become law yet?

One regular feature of Ireland's endemic list of child abuse scandals is that on many occasions the abuse of children was suspected or known but not reported to the authorities. The Children First Bill 2014, which was approved by the Cabinet last week, will put existing voluntary guidelines in the 'Children First: National Guidance for the Protection and Welfare of Children' on a statutory footing.

Under the new bill's provisions, those who will be legally mandated to report their suspicions include members of the clergy, teachers, medical practitioners, nurses, psychologists, pre-school carers, youth workers, social workers, gardai, emergency paramedical staff and probation officers.

If so, I'd love it for the minister for justice or gardai to come out and say that regardless of the Vatican's position, failure to report abuse is a crime and will be punished under law.

Pat Mustard

BigJackC wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/10/catholic-bishops-not-obliged-report-clerical-child-abuse-vatican-says

Is there any other legal organisation on the planet that instructs its members to turn a blind eye to child abuse? In any case where it's found that bishops or other members of the Catholic church knowingly turned a blind eye, we should absolutely prosecute them as accessories along with the abuser(s).

I hope they get sued out of existence.

Penn

Anyone even remotely surprised? I mean for me the most surprising part is how easily this information was revealed. Thought they'd at least try and keep it a secret for a while.

RobertKK

Why would abuse victims not go to the police themselves and instead expect the church to deal with it.

I think the church is taking the right approach, if a person is abused you go to the police and not the church. It was going to the church and not the police that caused the problem to remain in the first place.

btw the Catholic church in Ireland has higher child safety standards than what the state has.
A priest is not allowed to be alone with a child so the child is safe, and the priest is safe from false accusations.
This is what the church has implemented.

El_Duderino 09

I'm watching the head of Google answering questions to UK Parliament, so I'm looking at this as a multinational corporation protecting it's interests. To be fair, I believe that the Irish subsidiary of the catholic church has cleaned up it's act and children are safe today.

They are investing in growing their business in Africa, South America, Asia which are analogous to Ireland 50 years ago when this abuse was rife.
They are protecting themselves against historical sexual abuse in western Europe and current and future abuse in their expanding markets.

The morality behind this business decision, to inform bishops that it's not necessarily their job to report allegations of abuse to the police, is the same as Google saying they don't necessarily have to pay any more tax.

It's a business decision. Morality doesn't enter into it.

RobertKK

I am amazed at how many people in this thread think you don't report a crime to the police, but you go to the church instead.

Ken.

It's not the not reporting it yourself to the police that's annoying people. What I'm reading is that if a bishop knows about it and it hasn't been reported then their not allowed report it themselves.

Or what S/he said below

Hyzepher

RobertKK wrote: »

Why would abuse victims not go to the police themselves and instead expect the church to deal with it.

I think the church is taking the right approach, if a person is abused you go to the police and not the church. It was going to the church and not the police that caused the problem to remain in the first place.

btw the Catholic church in Ireland has higher child safety standards than what the state has.
A priest is not allowed to be alone with a child so the child is safe, and the priest is safe from false accusations.
This is what the church has implemented.

RobertKK wrote: »

I am amazed at how many people in this thread think you don't report a crime to the police, but you go to the church instead.

Are you so blinded by your faith that you think this is a good idea.

This is about clerical abuse - not some random crime on the streets.

So if one priest sees abuse by another priest you think it's up to the CHILD to decide to report it to the police!

Unbelievable!

Akrasia

RobertKK wrote: »

Why would abuse victims not go to the police themselves and instead expect the church to deal with it.

I think the church is taking the right approach, if a person is abused you go to the police and not the church. It was going to the church and not the police that caused the problem to remain in the first place.

btw the Catholic church in Ireland has higher child safety standards than what the state has.
A priest is not allowed to be alone with a child so the child is safe, and the priest is safe from false accusations.
This is what the church has implemented.

Are you completely ignorant of the history of the RCC church and what they have historically done to keep abuse victims silent?

While the worst is over in Ireland (as we embrace secularism), the RCC still has a very strong grip over many less developed countries.

RobertKK

Akrasia wrote: »

Are you completely ignorant of the history of the RCC church and what they have historically done to keep abuse victims silent?

While the worst is over in Ireland (as we embrace secularism), the RCC still has a very strong grip over many less developed countries.

That is living in the past, and no one in this thread apart from me, has even mentioned how the church has put in child protection for the child, and protection for the priest from false accusations, and we had a number of cases of false accusations by people looking for money for a crime that never happened.

Show me a report where people were told they couldn't go to the police?
The problem is the abuse victims in the past expected the church to deal with it, and didn't go to the police.
The church in this are saying the victims or their families should go to the police, not the church to report abuse.

If someone abused a child do you:
A: go to the family of the abuser and tell them to deal with it?
B: go to the police?

Jaden

What is even more surprising is that someone can read a relatively short article, and not fully understand what it is saying.

The issue of to whom the victims report alleged abuse is not in question.

The issue is that guidelines state that disclosure of allegations should only be made internally (ie, within the Church), and not to authorities:

"A document that spells out how senior clergy members ought to deal with allegations of abuse, which was recently released by the Vatican, emphasised that, though they must be aware of local laws, bishops’ only duty was to address such allegations internally."

RobertKK

Hyzepher wrote: »

Are you so blinded by your faith that you think this is a good idea.

This is about clerical abuse - not some random crime on the streets.

So if one priest sees abuse by another priest you think it's up to the CHILD to decide to report it to the police!

Unbelievable!

So your neighbour abuses your child, you go to your neighbour and ask them to deal with it, you don't go to the police yourself?

Azalea

RobertKK wrote: »

I am amazed at how many people in this thread think you don't report a crime to the police, but you go to the church instead.

You are amazed?

That's a bit *too* obtuse in fairness.

It's not "a crime" (as in any crime by anyone) which people are saying should be reported to the church, it's abuse by church members.

Same as reporting abuse by a teacher to the principal of the school.

Same as reporting abuse in the workplace to a manager/HR.

I agree children are not at risk from clergy now like they would have been in the past, but I wouldn't rule out risk either. Predators are still willing to take huge risks.

Akrasia

RobertKK wrote: »

That is living in the past, and no one in this thread apart from me, has even mentioned how the church has put in child protection for the child, and protection for the priest from false accusations, and we had a number of cases of false accusations by people looking for money for a crime that never happened.

Show me a report where people were told they couldn't go to the police?
The problem is the abuse victims in the past expected the church to deal with it, and didn't go to the police.
The church in this are saying the victims or their families should go to the police, not the church to report abuse.

If someone abused a child do you:
A: go to the family of the abuser and tell them to deal with it?
B: go to the police?

Ah, I get it. it's all the victims fault

Got it.

And you are actually saying, right on this thread, that if a bishop hears credible information that a priest is abusing children, that he should Not report it to the State authorities, instead, that they should deal with it 'internally'

cdeb

It's not about the individual going to the church and reporting it. It's about the church keeping an eye out for abuse as well and reporting it to the police.

There's a stigma about reporting sexual abuse which many people find it hard to overcome. It's a very standard policy in many organisations that if they have evidence of abuse, they will report it to the authorities themselves and not assume the person has reported it. The point is to raise the chance that the issue gets detected and dealt with.

Akrasia

RobertKK wrote: »

So your neighbour abuses your child, you go to your neighbour and ask them to deal with it, you don't go to the police yourself?

Absolutely rubbish analogy

We're talking about priests being trained that they're not obliged to report abuse to the police.

If a priest sees evidence that a child is abused by another member of the clergy, he should absolutely be obliged to report that to the police, he should not go to his bishop so the bishop can deal with it 'internally'

ectoraige

RobertKK wrote: »

I am amazed at how many people in this thread think you don't report a crime to the police, but you go to the church instead.

That's not the point. The point is if a clergyman beings aware of abuse that has so far gone unreported, the Vatican are saying it's okay to not report it either, unless local laws insist on it.

Priests in the part who have committed asks have told their bishop instead of going to the police, and the bishops moved them and allowed then be in a position to reoffend. The scum cannot be trusted to do everything in their Pierre to keep children safe.

Hyzepher

RobertKK wrote: »

So your neighbour abuses your child, you go to your neighbour and ask them to deal with it, you don't go to the police yourself?

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

This is about clergy being aware of abuse and not reporting it. Why would any priest assume that it was being reported by anyone.

usually victims dont report the crime as they are being influenced by their attacker. In your example, the parent wouldn't be aware of the abuse.

El_Duderino 09

RobertKK wrote:

Why would abuse victims not go to the police themselves and instead expect the church to deal with it.

Even if the Bishop has knowledge of sexual abuse of a child? They should leave it to the child to report it to the police?

RobertKK wrote:

I think the church is taking the right approach, if a person is abused you go to the police and not the church. It was going to the church and not the police that caused the problem to remain in the first place.

Fair enough if you think the catholics are talking the right approach. Would you apply the same standards to analogous organisations?

Do you agree that school principles would be taking the right approach by not reporting sexual abuse to police?

Do you agree that a regional manager of a multinational would be taking the right approach by not report child sexual abuse to the police?

RobertKK wrote:

I am amazed at how many people in this thread think you don't report a crime to the police, but you go to the church instead.

The child needn't be involved on the discussion.

Priest A: Hello bishop. I walked in on priest B sexually abusing a child.
Bishop: oh right.
Priest A: are you going to report it to the police?
Bishop: the boss said its not necessarily my job to report sexual abuse to the police. I'll see if the law compels me to tell the police or not. The child should report it to the police.

RobertKK: I think the bishop is taking the right approach.

DavyD_83

RobertKK wrote: »

So your neighbour abuses your child, you go to your neighbour and ask them to deal with it, you don't go to the police yourself?

You see your neighbour abuse a child, or are fairly sure it is happening;
You tell the head of the neighbourhood with expectation he will go to police?
You tell the police?
You tell the head of the neighbourhood and agree it's probably grand, sure he's always at it, lets keep it to ourselves, it'd bring down all of our house prices. and while we're at it we better let all the other neighbourhoods know that this is the best way to deal with these sort of things. (oh, and somebody keep an eye on him and make sure he's told not to be at that again)?


As far as I am aware any responsible company/organisation's child protection policy in this day and age outlines how to avoid false claims (never alone with child etc.), but also has reporting guidelines. These guidelines, should never equate to "keep it internal"

Rubber_Soul

RobertKK wrote: »

So your neighbour abuses your child, you go to your neighbour and ask them to deal with it, you don't go to the police yourself?

Of course you go to the bloody police. Literally the only people saying you don't have to is the Church. How are you not getting this?