How to join the Register of Solemnisers?

CruelCoin

Hi All,

Having recently being ordained as a Minister within the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (Yes, it's a thing), does anyone know how i go about making an application to join the register of solemnisers?

I am trying to become the first Pastafarian licensed to carry out wedding ceremonies in Ireland.

Regards,

CC.

westernlass

I think it's about the organisation being approved not individuals

MistyCheese

As far as I'm aware there is currently an embargo on any new Public Servants, which a solemniser would fall under.

westernlass

That's just for civil ceremonies. Humanists are self employed so would be the same set up

MistyCheese

Okay, thanks I wasn't entirely sure.

Milly33

Oh great well done to you... don't have a clue though how you go about it, but rem to come back and tell us if you do

PhoenixParker

You have to be a member of an approved organisation who nominates you, or in your case you'd have to get the organisation approved.

Whether you'd go the religious body route or the secular body route for approval I don't know. I suspect it's easier to go the religious body route since the only requirement seems to be:

“religious body” means an organised group of people members of which meet regularly for common religious worship.

Can you prove that? It's pretty vague, but you'd need an ongoing organised group of members not sure if religious bodies need to be registered somehow here.

Getting a secular organisation approved is covered by the Civil Registration Amendment Act 1012

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/act/pub/0048/sec0003.html#sec3

“Secular body

45A. (1) For the purposes of this Part, a body shall, subject to subsection (2), be a secular body if it is an organised group of people and—

(a) it has not fewer than 50 members,

(b) its principal objects are secular, ethical and humanist,

(c) members of the body meet regularly in relation to their beliefs and in furtherance of the objects referred to in paragraph (b),

(d) it does not have any rules regarding marriage or the solemnisation of marriages that contravene the requirements of this Act or any other enactment or rule of law,

(e) it is shown to the satisfaction of an tArd-Chláraitheoir to be a body that has appropriate procedures in writing for selecting, training and accrediting members as fit and proper persons to solemnise marriages,

(f) it is a body that, on the date of its making of an application under section 54 or 57, has been in existence for a continuous period of not less than 5 years,
(i) that is entitled to an exemption under section 207 or 208 of the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 , and was so entitled for a continuous period of not less than five years immediately preceding the date of the body's most recent application under section 54 or 57, and

(ii) in respect of which—

(I) a number (commonly referred to as a CHY number) stands issued by the Revenue Commissioners for the purposes of that exemption, and

(II) that number stood issued for a continuous period of not less than 5 years immediately preceding the date of its most recent application under section 54 or 57,

(h) it is a body that does not have the making of profit as one of its principal objects, and

(i) it maintains a register of its members.

organisation membership of which is unlawful.”.

There are more rules but you can see how exclusionary they make it. Minimum of 50 people with a specific tax designation, in existence over a long period and not for profit.



To find out more this is probably the best description of who you need to contact:

Anyone solemnising a marriage after 5th November 2007 must ensure that he or she is on the Register of Solemnisers. All solemnisers must be 18 years or over and must be nominated by the religious body or the secular body on whose behalf they will be solemnising marriages. Nominations must be made by the relevant authorities in each religious body or secular body, not by the solemnisers themselves. Each nomination must be approved by an tArd-Chláraitheoir, the Registrar-General. Letters confirming registration will be issued to all registered solemnisers. If you have any queries regarding your registration status you should contact the GRO Marriages Unit, Government Offices, Convent Road, Roscommon, phone 090-6632945/7/9 or 6632970, website www.groireland.ie.

tinkerbell

Church of the flying spaghetti monster? WTF?

lazygal

tinkerbell wrote: »

Church of the flying spaghetti monster? WTF?

Blasphemy!

westernlass

How many members are there in Ireland at the moment?

tinkerbell

lazygal wrote: »

Blasphemy!

It was a serious question!!! :pac:

Milly33

It is blasphemy if you believe in how the church works (note I did not say god) and it also goes to prove if you do not, side with the church how daft they way they run it is...

tinkerbell

Milly33 wrote: »

It is blasphemy if you believe in how the church works (note I did not say god) and it also goes to prove if you do not, side with the church how daft they way they run it is...

Huh?

keeponhurling

tinkerbell wrote: »

Church of the flying spaghetti monster? WTF?

That would be an ecumenical matter

tinkerbell

I just looked it up and apparently it is a church! I seriously thought the OP was joking. You learn something new every day!

The Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM) is the deity of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Pastafarianism (a portmanteau of pasta and Rastafarian), a movement that promotes a light-hearted view of religion and opposes the teaching of intelligent design and creationism in public schools.[3] Although adherents describe Pastafarianism as a genuine religion,[3] it is generally seen by the media as a parody religion.[4][5]

The "Flying Spaghetti Monster" was first described in a satirical open letter written by Bobby Henderson in 2005 to protest the Kansas State Board of Education decision to permit teaching intelligent design as an alternative to evolution in public school science classes.[6] In that letter, Henderson satirized creationism by professing his belief that whenever a scientist carbon-dates an object, a supernatural creator that closely resembles spaghetti and meatballs is there "changing the results with His Noodly Appendage". Henderson argued that his beliefs were just as valid as intelligent design, and called for equal time in science classrooms alongside intelligent design and evolution.[7] After Henderson published the letter on his website, the Flying Spaghetti Monster rapidly became an Internet phenomenon and a symbol of opposition to the teaching of intelligent design in public schools.[8]

Milly33

Yep it is indeed a nice relaxed view of things

keeponhurling

tinkerbell wrote: »

I just looked it up and apparently it is a church! I seriously thought the OP was joking. You learn something new every day!

The atheists will be along soon, I suspect they'll pick a few holes in that belief system

Flying Spaghetti Monster indeed

Malari

keeponhurling wrote: »

The atheists will be along soon, I suspect they'll pick a few holes in that belief system

Flying Spaghetti Monster indeed

Lol! I love satire.

CruelCoin

tinkerbell wrote: »

It was a serious question!!! :pac:

Serious answer then: It was created by Bobby Henderson in the USA a a protest against the teaching of creationism as science in the classroom, which of course it is not, being dogma.....

Idea being that, i cannot disprove yours, you cannot disprove mine, therefore both should be given equal time in the classroom. Or failing that you could actually just give all the time in science class to teaching actual science.

Edit: Didn't read past your post, saw that you found it!

The faith is gaining ground; there are now numerous examples of people with pasta colanders on their heads in drivers license photos and state id cards, being worn as religious headgear. And in several countries it is now a recognised religion. http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/flyingspaghettimonster/images/0/0c/Fsmof.png/revision/latest?cb=20120618162637

CruelCoin

keeponhurling wrote: »

The atheists will be along soon, I suspect they'll pick a few holes in that belief system

Flying Spaghetti Monster indeed

It was actually created by an aetheist.

prettygurrly

But the big question is, will I be able to be married by someone ordained in this "religion"...please!

CruelCoin

PhoenixParker wrote: »

"epic detailed post"

Cheers dude! Much appreciated,

CruelCoin

prettygurrly wrote: »

But the big question is, will I be able to be married by someone ordained in this "religion"...please!

Nobody on the register yet.

I am going to try organise some "sermons" aka piss-ups in a italian eatery, and i'll take it from there. Will keep you posted.

CruelCoin

keeponhurling wrote: »

The atheists will be along soon, I suspect they'll pick a few holes in that belief system

Flying Spaghetti Monster indeed

Cosmic jewish zombie indeed.

Any argument given to poke holes can be flipped round to any other religion.

Gatica

yep, it's a thing... There was a driving licence picture circulating that had the photo of the guy wearing a spaghetti strainer on his head because he claimed it was religious head-gear (FSM/Pastafarian...).
Great idea for use of your religious status though! I'm sure plenty of people would book OP for wedding ceremonies!

Milly33

I remember seeing one of the pictures I think it is a kids drawing.. I hope you get somewhere with it Cruelcoin

PhoenixParker

CruelCoin wrote: »

Cheers dude! Much appreciated,

I'm actually really interested in this. The situation with regard to registrars/solemnisers in this country is a bit of a bugbear of mine. There are thousands of individuals on the registrar including random priests who work in Africa who have been added so they can marry relatives. However if you exclude the solemnisers associated with major religions you're left with 16 - 20 humanists & spiritualists and the registrars who only work Monday - Friday.

The humanists are great, but there are so few of them and while more are in training, I don't really feel they'll ever be able to meet demand. We need a real alternative. I have a few ideas in my head, toastmasters being one and commissioners for oaths being another, but a group like the pastafarians could really break the shortage and quickly.

If I were you, I'd forget about the worship services for a little bit. Write a nice letter to the register general along the lines of

Dear Register General,

I am a member of a small independent religious body, with a group of practising members in Dublin and several more distributed around the country. A number of our members have expressed an interest in having their marriages solemnised by a member of our church.

Since we are not affiliated with any of the major organised religious bodies in Ireland (e.g. the catholic church), can you advise on the process of becoming a registered religious body capable of nominating solemnisers in accordance with the Civil Registration Acts?

Then base your plan of action on meeting exactly the stipulations he lays down.

CruelCoin

I have sent an e-mail to Bobby Henderson, the founder and prophet of the church.

He seems to be very johnny on the money in his replies, so will report what he comes back with.

Redacted contents below:

Good morning Bobby,

My name is xxxx xxxxx, recently ordained minister, and both my brother and I were wondering how to go about joining the registrar of solemnisers (i think he e-mailed you last week? xxxx xxxxx is his name).

I have found the procedure and stipulations for doing so in Ireland, but i need some statistical evidence with which to back up my application (first need to have pastafarianism registered as a religion, then we can nominate solemnisers, but i need to able to prove at least 50 members first).

Could you please let me know how many people are a member of the church in the Republic of Ireland, how many are ordained, etc. Anything even remotely official looking would help hugely here.

Out of the thousands of solemnisers registered in Ireland, there are only 16-20 humanists, and i feel that pastafarianism can fill the huge gap in demand here.

Many thanks in advance Bobby, any help is very much appreciated.

Kind regards,

xxxx xxxxxx.

keeponhurling

CruelCoin wrote: »

It was actually created by an aetheist.

Seems like a paradox to me.
So do they believe in a Flying Spaghetti Monster or not ?

PhoenixParker

keeponhurling wrote: »

Seems like a paradox to me.
So do they believe in a Flying Spaghetti Monster or not ?

Belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster isn't a necessary condition for being a member of the religion. This is a pretty good summary: http://www.venganza.org/about/

CruelCoin

keeponhurling wrote: »

Seems like a paradox to me.
So do they believe in a Flying Spaghetti Monster or not ?

Like any other religion, you have people that do and those that don't. Take christianity for example, where you have droves of people who attend the ceremonies, say that words, etc without believing them, and who are just in for the social acceptance side of it. Like wise with pastafarians.

Those that do believe, do yes believe that the world was created by a flying spaghetti monster.

Our traditional dress is full pirate regalia, heaven is a beer volcano and a stripper factory. Hell is much the same except the beer is stale and the strippers have venereal diseases. Midgets are blessed as they receive more noodly touching, and therefore more downwards pressure.
We do not have 10 commandments, as thats a bit bossy, and instead we have the "8 i really rather you wouldn'ts". We have a bible, prayers, religious holidays, and pretty everything else that denotes a religion these days.

prettygurrly

I do like the idea of getting toastmasters involved though...there's so many of us, spread across the country, it makes perfect sense - and we're not too shabby on the public speaking front!

PhoenixParker

prettygurrly wrote: »

I do like the idea of getting toastmasters involved though...there's so many of us, spread across the country, it makes perfect sense - and we're not too shabby on the public speaking front!

Yeah. It seems like a bit of a no brainer and I've floated the idea once or twice and found broad agreement, but

a) there'd need to be approval from headquarters in the US
b) there'd probably need to be some sort of new structure put in place. Probably a solemnisers specific club, but then would that need to be around for five years or would the toastmasters org in Ireland qualify?

If toastmasters already qualifies for the tax status, I think it'd be fairly straightforward.

i.e. found the solemnisers club with a pre-requisite of CC and CL to join, maybe develop a special manual (or adapt one of the existing ones) then get people through the special manual, apprentice them somehow and off they go.

If toastmasters doesn't qualify for the tax status, then you'd be talking about trying to found and maintain a solemnisers club, with a minimum of fifty members and keeping it going for five years to qualify for nominating body status.

It's something I hope to pursue a bit next year, when the wedding is over and my term as club president is up, but right now, I haven't time.

PhoenixParker

So I looked up the list of registered charities in Ireland and the toastmasters don't appear to be on it, so then I decided to see if I could see any other candidate organisations:

I definitely think the Dublin Naturalists' Field Club would make fantastic wedding solemnisers. Also the Dublin Well Womans Association and maybe the Farmers Apprenticeship Board.

Also the Dublin camera club. You could get a family member to the ceremony and your photographer could quickly sign off on the legal bit.

There are dozens of great candidate organisations, we should start a campaign to get them to sign up.

prettygurrly

TM clubs individually don't make a profit though so could maybe just the solemnisers club be a registered charity? We have the problem of 5 yes history though in that case. Long term plan it sounds good...

(I've written this with the understanding that it has to be a registered charity...correct me if I'm wrong)

PhoenixParker

prettygurrly wrote: »

TM clubs individually don't make a profit though so could maybe just the solemnisers club be a registered charity? We have the problem of 5 yes history though in that case. Long term plan it sounds good...

(I've written this with the understanding that it has to be a registered charity...correct me if I'm wrong)

Toastmasters itself is a non-profit so may be registered as such some other way and qualify on those grounds. 5 year and fifty members requirements are easily met in that case.

If that's not the case doesn't then yes, the solemnisers club would need to be registered as a charity and need to meet the five year rule and 50 members requirement on its own terms, which is where things get awkward. Whatever about a two year lead time or thereabouts, a 5 year lead time would be pretty difficult to maintain.

mailforkev

Based on the amount of time and effort that it took to get the Humanists on the approved list I'd say it would be fairly difficult.

There is an element in Irish society that views non-religion as completely destructive so they don't make it easy.

Before we got married (luckily the Humanists got full accreditation before our ceremony, they hadn't at the time) I obtained the full spreadsheet of every single approved wedding celebrant in the country and it was entertaining reading. Any crackpot religion or "spiritualist" was on it no problem but nobody secular. A fortune teller would find it easier than someone non-religious.

Gatica

keeponhurling wrote: »

Seems like a paradox to me.
So do they believe in a Flying Spaghetti Monster or not ?

I don't think that should be prerequisite for them since it's not a prerequisite for this country's main religion. Many catholics are atheist, indeed some priests are aware of their parishioners atheism, doesn't seem to bother the a jot...

nxbyveromdwjpg

How did you get on with this in the end?

Interested myself..

stickybookmark

Has anyone ever read through the list of irish solemisers? It's an interesting read!
One church I liked the sound of called ''The Tower of Power'' would love to have been married by them :-)
I think becoming a secular solemiser like humanist would be a licence to print money (as long as you don't mind working weekends and travelling) there are Always people on here looking for humanist solemisers.

Milly33

Yes would love to hear.. I got my documents from the universal church and it said you had to contact your local office to see if you could be approved. haven't don't anything with it at the moment as tis just been madness but might be something intersting

stickybookmark

Milly33 wrote: »

Yes would love to hear.. I got my documents from the universal church and it said you had to contact your local office to see if you could be approved. haven't don't anything with it at the moment as tis just been madness but might be something intersting

You should definitely go for it! Really nice job being part of people's happy day and guaranteed loads of work as non-religious weddings continue to become more popular

fannymagee

PhoenixParker wrote: »

I'm actually really interested in this. The situation with regard to registrars/solemnisers in this country is a bit of a bugbear of mine. There are thousands of individuals on the registrar including random priests who work in Africa who have been added so they can marry relatives. However if you exclude the solemnisers associated with major religions you're left with 16 - 20 humanists & spiritualists and the registrars who only work Monday - Friday.

The humanists are great, but there are so few of them and while more are in training, I don't really feel they'll ever be able to meet demand. We need a real alternative. I have a few ideas in my head, toastmasters being one and commissioners for oaths being another, but a group like the pastafarians could really break the shortage and quickly.

If I were you, I'd forget about the worship services for a little bit. Write a nice letter to the register general along the lines of

Then base your plan of action on meeting exactly the stipulations he lays down.

And Interfaith Solemnisers!! We have similar numbers to Humanists, but aren't as well known. Personally I would love to oversee a traditional Pastafarian wedding- I can imagine some very interesting bridal headwear..! ;-)

Nash Bridges

Would also be interested to hear how you got on?

Also, who is going to do all the same-sex weddings? Is it only civil registrars?

fannymagee

Nash Bridges wrote: »

Would also be interested to hear how you got on?

Also, who is going to do all the same-sex weddings? Is it only civil registrars?

No, any registered solemniser can officiate same-sex weddings. I have 3 booked for 2016, and one for 2017 already. Now I'm getting ready for the post-Christmas & New Year engagement rush haha. Bring 'em ON!!!! :-)

JustAThought

fannymagee wrote: »

And Interfaith Solemnisers!! We have similar numbers to Humanists, but aren't as well known. Personally I would love to oversee a traditional Pastafarian wedding- I can imagine some very interesting bridal headwear..! ;-)

Interesting - is there a website for the organisation?!

fannymagee

JustAThought wrote: »

Interesting - is there a website for the organisation?!

Yes, www.interfaithministers.ie

Mrs OBumble

OP, in case it helps, the CoFSM have recently be approved to solemnise weddings in New Zealand: http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/weddings/75107725/Church-of-Flying-Spaghetti-Monster-approved-to-perform-marriages

fannymagee

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, in case it helps, the CoFSM have recently be approved to solemnise weddings in New Zealand: http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/weddings/75107725/Church-of-Flying-Spaghetti-Monster-approved-to-perform-marriages

R'amen to that!