How does Mo Farah stack up in the history books?

ECOLII · 26-02-2015 4:10pm #1

Probably the most comprehensive evaluation I have seen in a long while and actually made for a great read for anyone interested

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2015/02/the-letsrun-com-staff-civil-war-can-mo-farah-be-considered-the-goat-greatest-of-all-time/

Have to say I am in agreement that personally I don't put him in same ball park as the great distance runners

walshb · 26-02-2015 4:12pm

He has to go down as one of the greatest of all time. I see he recently got a world mark in the two miles indoors. He's a double Olympic champion, as well as a WC over 5 and 10 k. Top 5 no doubt at 5 and 10 k. PBs only tell some of the story. In a race that is paced and set for a record he could challenge 5 k. His 2 mile indoor world best is the best in history. His PB at 1500 also tells me how brilliant he is. It's a good 3-4 seconds faster than Bekele and Haile....

BTW, excellent breakdown in the article. Very informative.

ECOLII · 26-02-2015 4:23pm

walshb wrote: »

He has to go down as one of the greatest of all time. I see he recently got a world mark in the two miles indoors. He's a double Olympic champion, as well as a WC over 5 and 10 k. Top 5 no doubt at 5 and 10 k. PBs only tell some of the story. In a race that is paced and set for a record he could challenge 5 k. His 2 mile indoor world best is the best in history. His PB at 1500 also tells me how brilliant he is. It's a good 3-4 seconds faster than Bekele and Haile....

Personally I would rank:

Bekele
Geb
Tergat
El G (looking from a distance perspective rather than MD)
Kipchoge
Lagat

walshb · 26-02-2015 4:26pm

Well, IMO EL G is better than any of them, and beats any of them over 5 k if he decides to tackle the distance. He has two wins over Bekele at the distance, both at global events. He has no weakness for them to exploit.

ECOLII · 26-02-2015 4:49pm

walshb wrote: »

Well, IMO EL G is better than any of them, and beats any of them over 5 k if he decides to tackle the distance. He has two wins over Bekele at the distance, both at global events. He has no weakness for them to exploit.

Better over 5k? debateable, Greatest Middle distance? without a doubt but many on that list ahead of him have shown prowess at XC, Marathon etc to establish their credentials for greatest distance runners of all time.

If you were going for 1500/5000 runners then you would probably rate as follows

El G
Komen
Lagat
Bekele/Geb
Farah/Ndiku

In terms of Championship racing I would actually even have Viren ahead and Mo neck and neck with Yifter in this regard simply due to the nature of heats in the 10k for global championships

walshb · 26-02-2015 5:00pm

ECOLII wrote: »

Better over 5k? debateable, Greatest Middle distance? without a doubt but many on that list ahead of him have shown prowess at XC, Marathon etc to establish their credentials for greatest distance runners of all time.

If you were going for 1500/5000 runners then you would probably rate as follows

El G
Komen
Lagat
Bekele/Geb
Farah/Ndiku

In terms of Championship racing I would actually even have Viren ahead and Mo neck and neck with Yifter in this regard simply due to the nature of heats in the 10k for global championships

EL G has better times from 1000 up to 3000, and Bekele the better over 5 and 10. At 5 I would put EL G at a 65 percent chance of beating Bekele. In a 10 race series over 5 k EL G beats Bekele 6/7 times from 10. He has the speed to beat him over the final 400-500 and the endurance to race at a very fast pace. The world final in 2003 was a wicked pace, and it was EL G who made the running. A great race that EL G lost by a whisker. I would have loved that have seen EL move up to 5 k. I wonder why he didn't take it as serious as the 5 k men? His PB is amazing considering he was mainly a miler.

1500/5 k double? Can't argue with the top 2. But if medals are to be included as well as performances then Farrah replaces Komen and Lagat.

average_runner · 26-02-2015 5:02pm

Mo is good but the standard over 5k and 10k on the track has declined over the years.

I think he go down as a great runner but not the world best as his times doesn't stack up compare to the best. Also he is afraid to race in a quality field unless its for a medal.

walshb · 26-02-2015 5:07pm

If he focused primarily on record times then he could challenge at 5 k. Not sure over 10 k. Surely his recent record indicates the form he is in, regardless that it was indoors. It's still two miles. As the article says, he can only beat what is in front of him, and IMO Farrah at his best competes in any era. His flat out final lap speed is probably a bit better than Geb and Bekele in an evenly paced race.

ECOLII · 26-02-2015 5:24pm

walshb wrote: »

If he focused primarily on record times then he could challenge at 5 k. Not sure over 10 k. Surely his recent record indicates the form he is in, regardless that it was indoors. It's still two miles. As the article says, he can only beat what is in front of him, and IMO Farrah at his best competes in any era. His flat out final lap speed is probably a bit better than Geb and Bekele in an evenly paced race.

I don't think that he could over 5k tbh, that world best is only worth in my estimation 7.29-7.30 which isn't even up there with the fastest time trailers of this generation let alone all time.

I reckon given the right conditions Farah would run 12.47-12.48 at best.

In a time trial race I reckon Alamirew and him are fairly level

Sacksian · 26-02-2015 5:28pm

It's worth reading the discussion on the Letsrun message board for a really good overview of this. To be honest, it doesn't seem to be much of a debate! But it is informative; some of the points made in favour of guys other than Bekele and Haile (particularly guys who had to compete with them in their prime) being ahead of Mo are interesting.

Two points I liked were that a) Mo's 2-mile time doesn't even count as a world record. The IAAF doesn't even keep records for the distance. It's a world best.

and b) regarding Mo's final lap pace and Bekele being able to live with it:

For that matter, who's to say that Kenenisa in his prime, if challenged properly, wouldn't have unleashed an even greater kick than he did for many of his races? Let's select Bekele's 2004 Olympic race as an example. The next best guy, Sileshi Sihine, was more than 4 seconds behind. 4 seconds!!! Bekele ran 53.02 for the last lap in that race WITHOUT being pushed AT ALL by the competition, faster than Farah's 53.48 while winning the Olympic 10,000m in 2012. It's also very significant that, in the SLOW Olympic 5,000m race that followed, Farah ran his balls off holding off 5 guys for gold, and ran 52.94 in the last lap...barely better than Kenenisa did with no competition in a race twice the distance.

Farah is NOT the 'goat.' He is NOT in the discussion for 'goat.' GOAT CANDIDACY AT THIS POINT IS FOR KENENISA, HAILE, AND OTHERS, not Mo.

I'll close with memories of the 2008 Olympic 5,000m final. Let's begin with the fact that Kenenisa ran sub-13 to win it. 12:57.82 to be precise, and he didn't need a freaking pace-setter to do it. He DOMINATED the last 5 laps by front-running, turning in a 4:56.97 final 2000m, and going un-challenged (again) in the final lap (the next fastest guy, Eliud Kipchoge, was 4.98 seconds behind). In the final 1600m Kenenisa turned in very nearly a 4-minute mile, running one of those laps in 59.9 seconds, and doing it all like he's ordering a pizza (easily; just watch a video of it sometime and look for the smile on his face while he was doing it, let alone the ease of his body-action). Now, you tell me, does anyone out there really think that a guy (Kenenisa Bekele) doing all that at the end of an OLYMPIC 5,000m is inferior overall to Farah at that distance when both are in their prime?

pconn062 · 26-02-2015 5:33pm

He is clearly a top class runner, you don't become double Olympic champion by accident. However he has been very fortunate to peak at a time of decline in African distance running. There was an extraordinary amount of championship races where the Africans played right into his hands and whatever AlSal worked on with his kick meant Mo had the races handed to him on a plate on a lot of occasions. Mo at his peak at the same time Kenny B was at his peak and there is only one winner. As for the 2 mile WR, there is no doubt it is a super run, however it is not a time that is raced too often and I think if Mo wants to be regarded on the same level as Geb and KB then he needs to have a crack at the serious world records, the 3/5/10k.

walshb · 26-02-2015 5:34pm

pconn062 wrote: »

I think if Mo wants to be regarded on the same level as Geb and KB then he needs to have a crack at the serious world records, the 3/5/10k.

Agreed

Ghost in Cratloe · 26-02-2015 9:14pm

The Mo Farah of 2011-2015 would have bit the dust with 600m to go in the 2008 Olympic 5000m final. He would have found it tough going possibly fading to 4 or 5th. Bekele's performance that night was the greatest championship 5000 performance of all time in my humble yet correct opinion. The last 6 laps were under 6 minutes with him easing up the home straight waving the finger around the bend.

One must remember when Farah runs 5 minutes for the last 2000 in a 5000m final he does it 2.35/2.25. Bekele however, could do a 2.30/2.25 if pushed off a much faster opening 3000m in around 7.55-8 minutes.

Farah in a championship 5000m does the following

Farah runs 3000 at tempo, roughly 1000 at 5k pace and then, 400m at 3k pace.Then he floors them with a blazing last 600m using his 1500 pedigree.

The lack of any rival in the 10000m makes it comfortable for Farah to do a 4-5 mile tempo and then blast them with a 2.28 last k. He usually runs a 94 second 600m followed by a 53-54 second 400m to negative split the last 1000m.

Farah's trump card is his ability to run a sub 3.48 mile and a sub 60 minute half. In championship races he has enough aerobic power to be able to utilize his terrific speed endurance over the last 600m.

However, as last week showed us 5 laps at 60 seconds per 400 before the bell will kill Farah's closing speed. He struggled with a 58 second last 400m in the two mile going through 3k in 7.33. The problem is are there any athletes out there that can do what Bekele did in 2008?

The answer is most unlikely meaning that unless Caleb Ndiku or Edris can improve there aerobic power then Farah may rule supreme in Bejing and possibly Rio.

walshb · 26-02-2015 9:32pm

We get it!

Netwerk_Errer · 27-02-2015 10:54pm

Ghost in Cratloe wrote: »

The Mo Farah of 2011-2015 would have bit the dust with 600m to go in the 2008 Olympic 5000m final. He would have found it tough going possibly fading to 4 or 5th. Bekele's performance that night was the greatest championship 5000 performance of all time in my humble yet correct opinion. The last 6 laps were under 6 minutes with him easing up the home straight waving the finger around the bend.

One must remember when Farah runs 5 minutes for the last 2000 in a 5000m final he does it 2.35/2.25. Bekele however, could do a 2.30/2.25 if pushed off a much faster opening 3000m in around 7.55-8 minutes.

Farah in a championship 5000m does the following

Farah runs 3000 at tempo, roughly 1000 at 5k pace and then, 400m at 3k pace.Then he floors them with a blazing last 600m using his 1500 pedigree.

The lack of any rival in the 10000m makes it comfortable for Farah to do a 4-5 mile tempo and then blast them with a 2.28 last k. He usually runs a 94 second 600m followed by a 53-54 second 400m to negative split the last 1000m.

Farah's trump card is his ability to run a sub 3.48 mile and a sub 60 minute half. In championship races he has enough aerobic power to be able to utilize his terrific speed endurance over the last 600m.

However, as last week showed us 5 laps at 60 seconds per 400 before the bell will kill Farah's closing speed. He struggled with a 58 second last 400m in the two mile going through 3k in 7.33. The problem is are there any athletes out there that can do what Bekele did in 2008?

The answer is most unlikely meaning that unless Caleb Ndiku or Edris can improve there aerobic power then Farah may rule supreme in Bejing and possibly Rio.

Bekele had to run the race like that in 2008 because of the ridiculously slow opening pace(2.45 1st k), He got caught out in 2004 by El G couldn't let any of the mid-d guys get a shot again. I think the comparison is unfair as Mo hasn't or even needed to make an attack from that far out in a championship race.

He always goes with the pace (or moves out front to slow it down) until he takes the lead at the bell. So, when he runs sub 5 for the last 2k, he's only attacking with 400 to go. Bekele has never gone 2.30/2.25 in a race. 2.32/2.25 is his best ever closing 2k which was run off an 8.00 3k in that 5000m(a jog for Bekele, slower than his average pace for 10k). Not saying it wasn't a great finish because it was great but saying that Mo couldn't live with that is ridiculous in my opinion.

I don't see how Mo only being able to conjure up a 58 last lap off the pace in his 2m WRi shows his weakness. Daniel Komon en route to the outdoor WR of 7.58 only narrowly ran under 61 for his last lap that day, the same guy who ran 7.20 for 3k and 12.39 for 5k.

Mo ran 3218m in 8.03 indoors with a negative split of 4.05/3.58, saying he couldn't run under 5 mins off an 8 minute 3k doesn't make any sense to me. Taking out the extra 19m from the 2 miles, Mo ran 8 laps at a near 60 flat per lap indoors. That he wouldn't be able to run under 5 minutes for 5 laps off an 8 minute 3k pace doesn't make any sense to me.

If you said, he wouldn't have been able to run a 54 second last lap like Bekele did in 2008 off of that pace, I would've agreed with you but Mo would be capable of running sub-5 off of 8 min pace, just not in the same fashion as Bekele. Using splits like Km or 2Km's don't tell the story of a race, the 400m splits are the real storytellers.

Saying that, Bekele's 7.36/5.01 WR is ridiculous, IMO, Mo wouldn't have a chance of running like that. I don't think Mo is the GOAT but he certainly deserves more credit than he gets. Who else has run a sub-3.30 1500m and a 60 flat half. Always disappointed that Zatopek is left out of these discussions, completely revolutionized the sport and will probably be the only person in ever to win the 5000, 10000 and Marathon in one Olympics.

Lougheee · 27-02-2015 11:36pm

Isn't this the same Mo Farah who at 20 years of age couldn't beat Chris Thompson to win a Euro U/23 5000m?

Farah has gone on to win everything in the sport but we are too quick to forget the Farah of 2004-2009 when BBC would dote on their only distance runner and lament all of his 'nearly made the final' performances at major championships.

Then, all of a sudden, he ditched the adidas gear and his one black spike and one white spike, went off to America, made some friends and Barcelona 2010 happened.

He is the only athlete out of that list of Komen, Bekele, Geb etc who wasn't already running out of this world in his early twenties. It took him to the age of 27 to 'realise' his greatness it seems. This also coincided with a coaching change, funny that.

I'd give Farah the greatest bull***t post-race celebration pose of all time.

Or greatest career transformation of all time, but not the greatest athlete of all time.

Ghost in Cratloe · 28-02-2015 12:49am

Netwerk_Errer wrote: »

Bekele had to run the race like that in 2008 because of the ridiculously slow opening pace(2.45 1st k), He got caught out in 2004 by El G couldn't let any of the mid-d guys get a shot again. I think the comparison is unfair as Mo hasn't or even needed to make an attack from that far out in a championship race.

He always goes with the pace (or moves out front to slow it down) until he takes the lead at the bell. So, when he runs sub 5 for the last 2k, he's only attacking with 400 to go. Bekele has never gone 2.30/2.25 in a race. 2.32/2.25 is his best ever closing 2k which was run off an 8.00 3k in that 5000m(a jog for Bekele, slower than his average pace for 10k). Not saying it wasn't a great finish because it was great but saying that Mo couldn't live with that is ridiculous in my opinion.

I don't see how Mo only being able to conjure up a 58 last lap off the pace in his 2m WRi shows his weakness. Daniel Komon en route to the outdoor WR of 7.58 only narrowly ran under 61 for his last lap that day, the same guy who ran 7.20 for 3k and 12.39 for 5k.

Mo ran 3218m in 8.03 indoors with a negative split of 4.05/3.58, saying he couldn't run under 5 mins off an 8 minute 3k doesn't make any sense to me. Taking out the extra 19m from the 2 miles, Mo ran 8 laps at a near 60 flat per lap indoors. That he wouldn't be able to run under 5 minutes for 5 laps off an 8 minute 3k pace doesn't make any sense to me.

If you said, he wouldn't have been able to run a 54 second last lap like Bekele did in 2008 off of that pace, I would've agreed with you but Mo would be capable of running sub-5 off of 8 min pace, just not in the same fashion as Bekele. Using splits like Km or 2Km's don't tell the story of a race, the 400m splits are the real storytellers.

Saying that, Bekele's 7.36/5.01 WR is ridiculous, IMO, Mo wouldn't have a chance of running like that. I don't think Mo is the GOAT but he certainly deserves more credit than he gets. Who else has run a sub-3.30 1500m and a 60 flat half. Always disappointed that Zatopek is left out of these discussions, completely revolutionized the sport and will probably be the only person in ever to win the 5000, 10000 and Marathon in one Olympics.

The main point of your argument is to tell me a 1-2 second difference in Bekele's second last k. If you read my post it would state that Bekele in his prime could have went 2.30/2.25 if pushed and as such burn Farah before he got to the bell.

Komen was running a lot faster than Farah when he didn't speed up on the last lap. Farah does not have a 53-54 second 400m in him if he is running 7.30 3k pace, Bekele in his prime did.

Nobody is underestimating Farah. He is in the top 10 distance track runners of all time. He is a great athlete just not as great as Bekele, Geb or Kipchoge.

I am glad the Ghost got you to reopen your account.

Dubgal72 · 28-02-2015 9:17am

Ghost in Cratloe wrote: »

I am glad the Ghost got you to reopen your account.

:rolleyes:

walshb · 28-02-2015 10:54am

Too much speculation on what Farrah could and could not do. In championship races you race. You rarely go out to time trial or set a record time. Farrah is likely more than capable at his best to hang with any great runner no matter what the strategy. He may well prefer certain strategies and paces, but that doesn't mean he cannot run other paces and strategies. His 12 mins 52 or so PB is enough to tell me that he is capable of any race pace/strategy.

PVincent · 28-02-2015 1:35pm

Lots of furore going on with the pics of Farah posing for photos and training with that guy who is banned since Jan 1. Not speculating , but bizarre that he thought it would be a standard thing to do , given his supposed standing in World Athletics. He will have to answer some serious questions now !

Netwerk_Errer · 28-02-2015 3:25pm

Ghost in Cratloe wrote: »

The main point of your argument is to tell me a 1-2 second difference in Bekele's second last k. If you read my post it would state that Bekele in his prime could have went 2.30/2.25 if pushed and as such burn Farah before he got to the bell.

Komen was running a lot faster than Farah when he didn't speed up on the last lap. Farah does not have a 53-54 second 400m in him if he is running 7.30 3k pace, Bekele in his prime did.

Nobody is underestimating Farah. He is in the top 10 distance track runners of all time. He is a great athlete just not as great as Bekele, Geb or Kipchoge.

I am glad the Ghost got you to reopen your account.

Ah, Come on!:D How was Bekele being 1-2 seconds slower over the second last K my main point? It was one sentence.

My main point was a counterpoint that Farah couldn't live with a sub-5 pace over the last 2k which he definitely could in my opinion. You said in your first post that Mo would've been dropped with 600m to go and then in your second post, you changed your story to saying Mo would be there at the bell but wouldn't be able to run a 54 last lap which was the point I made.

I'm with walshb on this one:eek: and as I said in my first post, the comparison is unfair because Mo has never needed to run from that far out in a championship race. Bekele had to because he didn't trust his kick off a slow pace against the mid-d guys. I feel like I'm on repeat here.

How can Kipchoge be above Mo on the all-time best track runners list? He has only one major championship gold to Mo's 5. Here are their PB's:

|Distance|Farah|Kipchoge|
|1500m|3:28|3:33
|3000|7:30i|7:27
|3200i|8:03i|8:07i
|5000|12:53|12:46
|10000|26:46|26:49

For a guy who rarely time trials, Mo's got Kipchoge narrowly on times alone in my opinion. I'm giving Mo the nod on the 3000m because his 7:30 is indoor.

I see Lagat mentioned in these discussions as higher too, that's arguable in my opinion because of Lagats longevity but I'm still giving it to Mo in that matchup too. Mo has more Championship wins, fair enough Lagat had to compete with El G but when it comes down to it, Farah would've been able to compete with Lagat in the 1500m and 5000m but when it comes to the 10000, Lagat wouldn't have a hope.

I also think the argument of weaker competition is slightly flawed now, The 5000m has some of the fastest men in history running now. It's not as strong as the days of Geb, Tergat and Komen but there is depth there. The 10000 is a lost cause alright and is weak by past standards which helps Farah because it's his weakest event.

I still think that 2 mile performance by Mo will have the rest of the world pondering on how to beat him. What do they do? Go out hard and pace him the whole way or leave it to the sit and kick again? I think it was a brilliant decision by Salazar to put him out there in a 2 mile WR attempt. It lays down a marker for everyone else to worry about. What are they going to think if he goes sub-60 in Lisbon next month? Completely nuts if he does that back to back.

The argument for Goat will always be between Geb and Bekele for me and I don't think I'll ever be able settle on just one.

Ghost in Cratloe · 28-02-2015 5:31pm

Netwerk_Errer wrote: »

Ah, Come on!:D How was Bekele being 1-2 seconds slower over the second last K my main point? It was one sentence.

My main point was a counterpoint that Farah couldn't live with a sub-5 pace over the last 2k which he definitely could in my opinion. You said in your first post that Mo would've been dropped with 600m to go and then in your second post, you changed your story to saying Mo would be there at the bell but wouldn't be able to run a 54 last lap which was the point I made.

I'm with walshb on this one:eek: and as I said in my first post, the comparison is unfair because Mo has never needed to run from that far out in a championship race. Bekele had to because he didn't trust his kick off a slow pace against the mid-d guys. I feel like I'm on repeat here.

How can Kipchoge be above Mo on the all-time best track runners list? He has only one major championship gold to Mo's 5. Here are their PB's:

|Distance|Farah|Kipchoge|
|1500m|3:28|3:33
|3000|7:30i|7:27
|3200i|8:03i|8:07i
|5000|12:53|12:46
|10000|26:46|26:49

For a guy who rarely time trials, Mo's got Kipchoge narrowly on times alone in my opinion. I'm giving Mo the nod on the 3000m because his 7:30 is indoor.

I see Lagat mentioned in these discussions as higher too, that's arguable in my opinion because of Lagats longevity but I'm still giving it to Mo in that matchup too. Mo has more Championship wins, fair enough Lagat had to compete with El G but when it comes down to it, Farah would've been able to compete with Lagat in the 1500m and 5000m but when it comes to the 10000, Lagat wouldn't have a hope.

I also think the argument of weaker competition is slightly flawed now, The 5000m has some of the fastest men in history running now. It's not as strong as the days of Geb, Tergat and Komen but there is depth there. The 10000 is a lost cause alright and is weak by past standards which helps Farah because it's his weakest event.

I still think that 2 mile performance by Mo will have the rest of the world pondering on how to beat him. What do they do? Go out hard and pace him the whole way or leave it to the sit and kick again? I think it was a brilliant decision by Salazar to put him out there in a 2 mile WR attempt. It lays down a marker for everyone else to worry about. What are they going to think if he goes sub-60 in Lisbon next month? Completely nuts if he does that back to back.

The argument for Goat will always be between Geb and Bekele for me and I don't think I'll ever be able settle on just one.

Bekele ran the last 2400 of the Olympic final in sub 6 minutes. Therefore for Mo to keep up he would have had to run sub 5 before the bell leaving him unable to use his 53-54 second speed. Fearing a complete collapse Mo would have been dropped prior to the bell in order to salvage a bronze medal battle with Edwin Soi.

Given that Kipchoge is 5 seconds slower than Mo over 1500m to me reaffirms Eliud's superior 5k fitness. Eliud did not have the luxery of sitting on a slow pace and then utilize a strong last 600m. Also Kipchoge was the only athlete able to last with Bekele in the Olympic final. He only ran one 10k in his life so you cannot use this as his 10000 potential. He is a sub 26.30 10km runner if he specialized at the distance.

Eliud is about 5 minutes faster than mo in the MARATHON or does that not count when taking about all time greats.

Only One world title you say: He beat Bekele and El G you do realize and picked up a bronze in 2004 as well as sliver in 2008 in a more competitive era.

There seems to be a series of Network of Errors in the posts that have popped up on this thread.

Ghost in Cratloe · 28-02-2015 5:33pm

Netwerk_Errer wrote: »

Ah, Come on!:D How was Bekele being 1-2 seconds slower over the second last K my main point? It was one sentence.

My main point was a counterpoint that Farah couldn't live with a sub-5 pace over the last 2k which he definitely could in my opinion. You said in your first post that Mo would've been dropped with 600m to go and then in your second post, you changed your story to saying Mo would be there at the bell but wouldn't be able to run a 54 last lap which was the point I made.

I'm with walshb on this one:eek: and as I said in my first post, the comparison is unfair because Mo has never needed to run from that far out in a championship race. Bekele had to because he didn't trust his kick off a slow pace against the mid-d guys. I feel like I'm on repeat here.

How can Kipchoge be above Mo on the all-time best track runners list? He has only one major championship gold to Mo's 5. Here are their PB's:

|Distance|Farah|Kipchoge|
|1500m|3:28|3:33
|3000|7:30i|7:27
|3200i|8:03i|8:07i
|5000|12:53|12:46
|10000|26:46|26:49

For a guy who rarely time trials, Mo's got Kipchoge narrowly on times alone in my opinion. I'm giving Mo the nod on the 3000m because his 7:30 is indoor.

I see Lagat mentioned in these discussions as higher too, that's arguable in my opinion because of Lagats longevity but I'm still giving it to Mo in that matchup too. Mo has more Championship wins, fair enough Lagat had to compete with El G but when it comes down to it, Farah would've been able to compete with Lagat in the 1500m and 5000m but when it comes to the 10000, Lagat wouldn't have a hope.

I also think the argument of weaker competition is slightly flawed now, The 5000m has some of the fastest men in history running now. It's not as strong as the days of Geb, Tergat and Komen but there is depth there. The 10000 is a lost cause alright and is weak by past standards which helps Farah because it's his weakest event.

I still think that 2 mile performance by Mo will have the rest of the world pondering on how to beat him. What do they do? Go out hard and pace him the whole way or leave it to the sit and kick again? I think it was a brilliant decision by Salazar to put him out there in a 2 mile WR attempt. It lays down a marker for everyone else to worry about. What are they going to think if he goes sub-60 in Lisbon next month? Completely nuts if he does that back to back.

The argument for Goat will always be between Geb and Bekele for me and I don't think I'll ever be able settle on just one.

Bekele ran the last 2400 of the Olympic final in sub 6 minutes. Therefore for Mo to keep up he would have had to run sub 5 before the bell leaving him unable to use his 53-54 second speed. Fearing a complete collapse Mo would have been dropped prior to the bell in order to salvage a bronze medal battle with Edwin Soi.

Given that Kipchoge is 5 seconds slower than Mo over 1500m to me reaffirms Eliud's superior 5k fitness. Eliud did not have the luxery of sitting on a slow pace and then utilize a strong last 600m. Also Kipchoge was the only athlete able to last with Bekele in the Olympic final. He only ran one 10k in his life so you cannot use this as his 10000 potential. He is a sub 26.30 10km runner if he specialized at the distance.

Eliud is about 5 minutes faster than mo in the MARATHON or does that not count when talking about all time greats.

Only One world title you say: He beat Bekele and El G you do realize and picked up a bronze in 2004 as well as sliver in 2008 in a more competitive era.

There seems to be a Network of Errors in the posts that have popped up on this thread.

Netwerk_Errer · 28-02-2015 6:11pm

Ghost in Cratloe wrote: »

Bekele ran the last 2400 of the Olympic final in sub 6 minutes. Therefore for Mo to keep up he would have had to run sub 5 before the bell leaving him unable to use his 53-54 second speed. Fearing a complete collapse Mo would have been dropped prior to the bell in order to salvage a bronze medal battle with Edwin Soi.

Given that Kipchoge is 5 seconds slower than Mo over 1500m to me reaffirms Eliud's superior 5k fitness. Eliud did not have the luxery of sitting on a slow pace and then utilize a strong last 600m. Also Kipchoge was the only athlete able to last with Bekele in the Olympic final. He only ran one 10k in his life so you cannot use this as his 10000 potential. He is a sub 26.30 10km runner if he specialized at the distance.

Eliud is about 5 minutes faster than mo in the MARATHON or does that not count when talking about all time greats.

Only One world title you say: He beat Bekele and El G you do realize and picked up a bronze in 2004 as well as sliver in 2008 in a more competitive era.

There seems to be a Network of Errors in the posts that have popped up on this thread.

Kipchoge has run 4 10000m races in his senior career, all of which were setup as time trials on the fastest tracks in the world

Hengelo (26:49)
Hengelo (26:54)
Bruxelles (26:53)
Oregon (27:11)

I think I'm correct in saying outside of championships, more 10000m than Mo.
The letsrun article was about greatest track runner, not distance runner. Yeah, Kipchoge is a seriously fast runner but he doesn't have the titles to back it up. Yeah, he had to deal with Bekele and El G but he didn't even run the 10000m in championships, He saved himself for the 5k while El G and Bekele were doubling up.

Farah won back to back 10k/5k golds, Kipchoge wouldn't even run both. Saying that Kipchoge didn't have the ability to utilise a fast last 600m only confirms that Farah is a better all round track athlete. Not having the ability to kick is a weakness, not a strength in your argument.

Ghost in Cratloe · 28-02-2015 6:45pm

Netwerk_Errer wrote: »

Kipchoge has run 4 10000m races in his senior career, all of which were setup as time trials on the fastest tracks in the world

Hengelo (26:49)
Hengelo (26:54)
Bruxelles (26:53)
Oregon (27:11)

I think I'm correct in saying outside of championships, more 10000m than Mo.
The letsrun article was about greatest track runner, not distance runner. Yeah, Kipchoge is a seriously fast runner but he doesn't have the titles to back it up. Yeah, he had to deal with Bekele and El G but he didn't even run the 10000m in championships, He saved himself for the 5k while El G and Bekele were doubling up.

Farah won back to back 10k/5k golds, Kipchoge wouldn't even run both. Saying that Kipchoge didn't have the ability to utilise a fast last 600m only confirms that Farah is a better all round track athlete. Not having the ability to kick is a weakness, not a strength in your argument.

Do your have the temperature, humidity and pollen count from them 'time trial' races of Eliud Kipchoge. You seem to cherry pick your data to fit the narrative of your argument. T Runner used to do the same thing before the Ghost banished him from the boards.

NiallG4 · 28-02-2015 6:59pm

Lougheee wrote: »

Isn't this the same Mo Farah who at 20 years of age couldn't beat Chris Thompson to win a Euro U/23 5000m?

Farah has gone on to win everything in the sport but we are too quick to forget the Farah of 2004-2009 when BBC would dote on their only distance runner and lament all of his 'nearly made the final' performances at major championships.

Then, all of a sudden, he ditched the adidas gear and his one black spike and one white spike, went off to America, made some friends and Barcelona 2010 happened.

He is the only athlete out of that list of Komen, Bekele, Geb etc who wasn't already running out of this world in his early twenties. It took him to the age of 27 to 'realise' his greatness it seems. This also coincided with a coaching change, funny that.

I'd give Farah the greatest bull***t post-race celebration pose of all time.

Or greatest career transformation of all time, but not the greatest athlete of all time.

I know exactly what you are inferring and could not agree more. His and Dame Kellys transformations are fantastic but.........

walshb · 28-02-2015 7:57pm

NiallG4 wrote: »

I know exactly what you are inferring and could not agree more. His and Dame Kellys transformations are fantastic but.........

Dame was mid 30s for hers. Farrah was late 20s for his. A I missing something? Did Farrah break 12 minutes for 5 k or something?

He's either slated for meeting nobodies or slated for getting PBs aged 27 and 28, and 30 or so.

Netwerk_Errer · 28-02-2015 8:32pm

walshb wrote: »

Dame was mid 30s for hers. Farrah was late 20s for his. A I missing something? Did Farrah break 12 minutes for 5 k or something?

He's either slated for meeting nobodies or slated for getting PBs aged 27 and 28, and 30 or so.

2014 13:23.42 Portland, OR 15 JUN
2013 13:05.88 Eugene, OR 01 JUN
2012 12:56.98 Eugene, OR 02 JUN
2011 12:53.11 Monaco (Stade Louis II) 22 JUL
2010 12:57.94 Zürich (Letzigrund) 19 AUG
2009 13:09.14 London (CP) 24 JUL
2008 13:08.11 Bruxelles 05 SEP
2007 13:07.00 Bruxelles 14 SEP
2006 13:09.40 Heusden-Zolder 22 JUL
2005 13:30.53 Solihull 25 JUN
2003 13:38.41 London 08 AUG
2002 14:00.5 Watford 14 AUG
2001 13:56.31 Solihull 23 JUN
2000 14:05.72 Solihull 19 AUG

There's Mo's progression over 5k since he was 17. He would've dominated nearly every American HS senior in history bar pretty much only Rupp. He came 8th in the World Junior XC in 1999 in which Bekele won. I'm with walshb again, people act like he came from nowhere. Did he get help, I don't know but I sure as hell ain't going judge guilt by association, suspicion yes. Every person mentioned on this thread would be guilty if that was the case. They have all had murky associates.

Also as you can see before everyone jumps on the Salazar slating, Mo ran sub-13 the year before he joined Salazar.

walshb · 28-02-2015 8:36pm

Netwerk_Errer wrote: »

2014 13:23.42 Portland, OR 15 JUN
2013 13:05.88 Eugene, OR 01 JUN
2012 12:56.98 Eugene, OR 02 JUN
2011 12:53.11 Monaco (Stade Louis II) 22 JUL
2010 12:57.94 Zürich (Letzigrund) 19 AUG
2009 13:09.14 London (CP) 24 JUL
2008 13:08.11 Bruxelles 05 SEP
2007 13:07.00 Bruxelles 14 SEP
2006 13:09.40 Heusden-Zolder 22 JUL
2005 13:30.53 Solihull 25 JUN
2003 13:38.41 London 08 AUG
2002 14:00.5 Watford 14 AUG
2001 13:56.31 Solihull 23 JUN
2000 14:05.72 Solihull 19 AUG

There's Mo's progression over 5k since he was 17. He would've dominated nearly every American HS senior in history bar pretty much only Rupp. He came 8th in the World Junior XC in 1999 in which Bekele won. I'm with walshb again, people act like he came from nowhere. Did he get help, I don't know but I sure as hell ain't going judge guilt by association, suspicion yes. Every person mentioned on this thread would be guilty if that was the case. They have all had murky associates.

Also as you can see before everyone jumps on the Salazar slating, Mo ran sub-13 the year before he joined Salazar.

Thanks for the breakdown. Explains a lot for me.

Mo should have eased up in 2013 when breaking Cram's PB, and Cacho's European record. That race got a lot of people gossiping.

Chivito550 · 28-02-2015 8:48pm

Netwerk_Errer wrote: »

2010 12:57.94 Zürich (Letzigrund) 19 AUG

Also as you can see before everyone jumps on the Salazar slating, Mo ran sub-13 the year before he joined Salazar.

I remember watching this race. He finished about 6th, well beaten, and he was ecstatic. It was a really big deal for him at the time. Hard to believe less than a year later he would suddenly be the man to beat, rather than a very quick also-ran at world level.

NiallG4 · 28-02-2015 10:10pm

walshb wrote: »

Dame was mid 30s for hers. Farrah was late 20s for his. A I missing something? Did Farrah break 12 minutes for 5 k or something?

He's either slated for meeting nobodies or slated for getting PBs aged 27 and 28, and 30 or so.

I think you have missed something. We have Irish junior athletes running comparable times to his junior times but I cant see them all of a sudden winning Olympic titles and running 3.28 for 1500M. Just my opinion. SNIP

Netwerk_Errer · 28-02-2015 10:37pm

NiallG4 wrote: »

I think you have missed something. We have Irish junior athletes running comparable times to his junior times but I cant see them all of a sudden winning Olympic titles and running 3.28 for 1500M. Just my opinion. I was 99% suspicious but when he ran 3.28......

Who?

John Treacy's Irish junior record is 14:04 and look what he went on to accomplish(a world beater) There is no junior athlete in this country even approaching that nevermind Mo's junior time of 13:56. I can bet that Mo had far more upside in potential than treacy given that he was probably running half the mileage Treacy was running at that age.

Did you look at the progression table I posted above?

Lads, come on. Atleast tell the truth and give some facts to back up the claims ye are making.

dublin runner · 28-02-2015 10:59pm

To compare Farah to someone like Beleke is pure folly. I'm sure I can draw a table an illustrate but why bother when then difference is so great, even to the casual observer.

Mo is a great runner but one of the top 5 or even top 10? No.

Netwerk_Errer · 28-02-2015 11:11pm

dublin runner wrote: »

To compare Farah to someone like Beleke is pure folly. I'm sure I can draw a table an illustrate but why bother when then difference is so great, even to the casual observer.

Mo is a great runner but one of the top 5 or even top 10? No.

I never said Mo was better or even with Bekele DR. To say he's not in the top 10 is straight out ridiculous though. 3.28-26:46(changed from half to 10k to keep you happy GinC) proves just how great he is. Said Aouita can't even nearly lay claim to a range like that, no one can.

I put up a table for the Kipchoge comparison of times to prove my point and to show people that it's hypocritical to say Mo isn't great because he hasn't run the times but somehow Kipchoge is above him even when Farah outperforms him in their PB's and has the medals to boot.

thirstywork2 · 28-02-2015 11:44pm

Netwerk_Errer wrote: »

2014 13:23.42 Portland, OR 15 JUN
2013 13:05.88 Eugene, OR 01 JUN
2012 12:56.98 Eugene, OR 02 JUN
2011 12:53.11 Monaco (Stade Louis II) 22 JUL
2010 12:57.94 Zürich (Letzigrund) 19 AUG
2009 13:09.14 London (CP) 24 JUL
2008 13:08.11 Bruxelles 05 SEP
2007 13:07.00 Bruxelles 14 SEP
2006 13:09.40 Heusden-Zolder 22 JUL
2005 13:30.53 Solihull 25 JUN
2003 13:38.41 London 08 AUG
2002 14:00.5 Watford 14 AUG
2001 13:56.31 Solihull 23 JUN
2000 14:05.72 Solihull 19 AUG

There's Mo's progression over 5k since he was 17. He would've dominated nearly every American HS senior in history bar pretty much only Rupp. He came 8th in the World Junior XC in 1999 in which Bekele won. I'm with walshb again, people act like he came from nowhere. Did he get help, I don't know but I sure as hell ain't going judge guilt by association, suspicion yes. Every person mentioned on this thread would be guilty if that was the case. They have all had murky associates.

Also as you can see before everyone jumps on the Salazar slating, Mo ran sub-13 the year before he joined Salazar.

Maybe take a look at his progression over 1500m and remember he was training for 5k/10k when running that 3.28

2013 3:28.81 Monaco (Stade Louis II) 19 JUL
2012 3:34.66 Los Angeles (OC), CA 18 MAY
2009 3:33.98 Monaco (Stade Louis II) 28 JUL
2008 3:39.66 Birmingham, GBR 13 JUL
2007 3:46.50 Birmingham, GBR 07 JUL
2006 3:38.02 Rieti 27 AUG
2005 3:38.62 Zürich 19 AUG
2003 3:43.17 Eton 14 JUN

His records up to 2009 in Championships where shocking(take a look below)
40th & 70th in the World Cross country short course.
37th in the long race and 59th as a Junior.11th was his best finish but almost 2minutes behind the winner.10th in the world juniors just 1 second ahead of Thompson and almost 30seconds behind the winner.
I think you are being very selective and not looking at the bigger picture.
As pointed out before Farah ran Euro u23 twice and failed to win both times.Thompson beat him and Rob Connolly finished 3rd that day just behind Farah.
SNIP

PERSONAL BESTS
PROGRESSION
HONOURS
ATHLETE REPRESENTATIVE
3000 METRES

6th IAAF/VTB Bank World Athletics Final 9 8:05.97 Stuttgart 13 SEP 2008
12th IAAF World Indoor Championships 6 7:55.08 Valencia (Velódromo Luis Puig), ESP 09 MAR 2008
5th IAAF World Athletics Final 3 7:49.89 Stuttgart 22 SEP 2007
4th IAAF World Athletics Final 12 8:00.60 Stuttgart 09 SEP 2006
5000 METRES

04 SEP 2011
12th IAAF World Championships in Athletics 7 13:19.69 Berlin (Olympiastadion) 23 AUG 2009
The XXIX Olympic Games 6h2 13:50.95 Beijing (National Stadium) 20 AUG 2008
5th IAAF World Athletics Final 7 13:41.61 Stuttgart 23 SEP 2007
11th IAAF World Championships in Athletics 6 13:47.54 Osaka (Nagai Stadium) 02 SEP 2007
IAAF/Coca Cola World Junior Championships 10 14:12.21 Santiago de Chile 21 OCT 2000
28 AUG 2011
SENIOR RACE
RANK MARK WIND PLACE DATE
38th IAAF World Cross Country Championships 20 34:09 Bydgoszcz 28 MAR 2010
35th IAAF World Cross Country Championships 11 37:31 Mombasa 24 MAR 2007
JUNIOR RACE
RANK MARK WIND PLACE DATE
IAAF World Cross Country Championships 59 28:06 Oostende 25 MAR 2001
SHORT RACE
RANK MARK WIND PLACE DATE
34th IAAF World Cross Country Championships 40 11:27 Fukuoka 01 APR 2006
31st IAAF World Cross Country Championships 74 12:13 Lausanne 29 MAR 2003
LONG RACE
RANK MARK WIND PLACE DATE
33rd IAAF World Cross Country Championships 37 37:50 Saint-Galmier 20 MAR 2005

pconn062 · 01-03-2015 12:02am

Guys, gentle reminder as I don't want to stop what is an interesting discussion but drug speculation without proof is against the charter and not allowed. I've had to edit a few posts.

Netwerk_Errer · 01-03-2015 12:13am

I'm being selective? I seem to be the only one semi-decently following the topic of the OP article which was solely based on track. Everyone knows Farah is a sh*t XC runner which is nearly every result you posted, his stride is way too bouncy to be efficient on mud or a soft surface. What exactly does his 1500m progression prove, it wasn't ever his focus event. I used his 5000m progression to prove he didn't come out of nowhere. His first ever 1500m been in 2003 proves just how little he cares about the distance. Here's a post from Renato Canova explaining why times don't tell the full story anyway:

The post was called, How do you beat Farah?Wait until he gets old, a direct quote from Renato before after the 1500m in Monaco.

Also, don't look at PB of this athletes like their "real" record. If Mo didn't run in Monaco, his PB could still be 3'33"98, and all this discussione couldn't happen.

Komen could run well under 3'30" when at the top of his shape, and could run well under 27', but never had, of tried to have, the opportunity for running at his best event different from 3000 and 5000m.

Athletics at top level is also a problem of money, and the appearances (which several years ago were very high) obliged top athletes to repeat always their best event.

For giving an idea, Shaheen could have 60,000 USD for starting 3000 steeple for trying WR, and in the same meeting no more than 2,000 if wanted running 5000m. So, you can see something strange : his PB in 5000m is from 2003, beating El Guerrouj with 12'48", when his value was by far not the same of the period 2005-2006, when he could run very close the WR of Bekele.

Don't think the real value of Mo is 12'53". He ran already 12'57" in 2010, when we worked together for some month in Iten, in Zurich, and now is very much stronger, after going to Salazar. To think can run near 12'40" is something reasonable, such as the possibility of running under 26'30" in 10000m.

But 7'20", in my opinion, is the strongest record in middle distances. I don't know about the calculator of Ventolin, and normally I don't like to think at what athletes could do in the past, because I live in the present thinking of the future. But, because we speak about the Future of Mo, and not the past, I think the evaluation of Ventolin can be really interesting, also because Mo is, after Gebrselassie, the only athlete having a range so wide IN THE SAME PERIOD.

Haile ran 3'31" winning World Indoor Ch when was WR holder of 5000 and 10000m, only after many years moved to marathon.

Kenenisa could be the same : he ran only once 1500m at the end of a season, without too much shape and motivation, in 3'32"35, and coul run around 3'30" at the peak of his shape in the right period. However, they tried several times to face Komen's record, and never were able running very close 7'20". The same El Guerrouj.

One my doubt is Mo has still to show his ability in running alone, against the watch and not against other competitors.

And, when you look at a record, of course you have to run great part of the race alone.

Personally, I don't think he can try any record BEFORE Moscow. May be can try something after, but, in the case of winning both the titles, he can go out of WCh nervously empty, and for trying a record you need to be at the top of your nervous energies.

If Mo wants to try some record (specifically 10000m), the right season is the next. To prepare a full marathon for April doesn't mean is not possible to be at the top for 10000m at the end of August. It depends on his motivation, and on the choices of Salazar lookin at Rio 2016.

Just because a guy hasn't run a time doesn't mean he isn't capable of running it. The progression of his 1500m times proves nothing, he quite possibly could have gone faster. You said it yourself, he ran that 1500m off 10/5k training just like he did for every other 1500 he ran. I would highly doubt he ever trained specifically for that distance. When I used the 5k progression, It was to show that Mo never made a huge breakthrough in his mid 20's. It was to show the potential was always there.

It's also important that most of the results you posted are juxtaposed and don't show him running near his season best of the corresponding year. Yeah, the track championship results werent great pre-2009 but there is plenty of reasons why Farah only started to come really good in his mid-20's besides the one everyone is speculating on. You have a raw junior talent who doesn't end up going to college in America or being fed through the Kenyan and Ethiopian meat grinder and being pushed into an early peak or burnt out by the turn em and burn em attitude of those systems.

All these things should be taking into consideration before putting someone's head on the chopping block. It's not quite as simple as, he improved so he must be doing something dodgy. How can you say without doubt that Farah's improvements are not down to the above reason or better training since 2009? You can't, you don't know but you jump to conclusions without even a hint of proof, now that is what I call truly selective.

Chivito550 · 01-03-2015 7:52am

Netwerk_Errer wrote: »

I'm being selective? I seem to be the only one semi-decently following the topic of the OP article which was solely based on track. Everyone knows Farah is a sh*t XC runner which is nearly every result you posted, his stride is way too bouncy to be efficient on mud or a soft surface. What exactly does his 1500m progression prove, it wasn't ever his focus event. I used his 5000m progression to prove he didn't come out of nowhere. His first ever 1500m been in 2003 proves just how little he cares about the distance. Here's a post from Renato Canova explaining why times don't tell the full story anyway:

The post was called, How do you beat Farah?Wait until he gets old, a direct quote from Renato before after the 1500m in Monaco.

Just because a guy hasn't run a time doesn't mean he isn't capable of running it. The progression of his 1500m times proves nothing, he quite possibly could have gone faster. You said it yourself, he ran that 1500m off 10/5k training just like he did for every other 1500 he ran. I would highly doubt he ever trained specifically for that distance. When I used the 5k progression, It was to show that Mo never made a huge breakthrough in his mid 20's. It was to show the potential was always there.

It's also important that most of the results you posted are juxtaposed and don't show him running near his season best of the corresponding year. Yeah, the track championship results werent great pre-2009 but there is plenty of reasons why Farah only started to come really good in his mid-20's besides the one everyone is speculating on. You have a raw junior talent who doesn't end up going to college in America or being fed through the Kenyan and Ethiopian meat grinder and being pushed into an early peak or burnt out by the turn em and burn em attitude of those systems.

All these things should be taking into consideration before putting someone's head on the chopping block. It's not quite as simple as, he improved so he must be doing something dodgy. How can you say without doubt that Farah's improvements are not down to the above reason or better training since 2009? You can't, you don't know but you jump to conclusions without even a hint of proof, now that is what I call truly selective.

How did he develop such outrageous finishing speed at such a mature age?

TRR_the_turd · 01-03-2015 8:09am

Chivito550 wrote: »

How did he develop such outrageous finishing speed at such a mature age?

Strength and conditioning according to Salazar.

I don't like farah yet based on his championship performances you have to put him up there with the greats. By no means the greatest but up there with them. I'm laughing at some of the arguments above. Just because you weren't the greatest junior doesn't mean you can't become a great senior. The reverse is also true. We all know lots of super juniors who went onto do nothing. Maybe farah was training like an ass until he became a member of salazars group!!!

NiallG4 · 01-03-2015 8:40am

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

Strength and conditioning according to Salazar.

I don't like farah yet based on his championship performances you have to put him up there with the greats. By no means the greatest but up there with them. I'm laughing at some of the arguments above. Just because you weren't the greatest junior doesn't mean you can't become a great senior. The reverse is also true. We all know lots of super juniors who went onto do nothing. Maybe farah was training like an ass until he became a member of salazars group!!!

Name some of the greats who were not great juniors. When I mentioned his junior records I meant his 1500M times. I am not expecting a long list.

Calvin Johnson · 01-03-2015 9:35am

A lot of you don't seem to like Farah - is there a reason why? Have you always disliked him or is it a recent thing?

walshb · 01-03-2015 10:31am

NiallG4 wrote: »

I think you have missed something. We have Irish junior athletes running comparable times to his junior times but I cant see them all of a sudden winning Olympic titles and running 3.28 for 1500M. Just my opinion. SNIP

I don't see the relevance between what Juniors in Ireland today are running to what Mo ran aged 17/18. It's simple. Is it inconceivable that a 17 and 18 year old can improve by 63 seconds over 5000 metres in 10-11 years?

tang1 · 01-03-2015 10:37am

Calvin Johnson wrote: »

A lot of you don't seem to like Farah - is there a reason why? Have you always disliked him or is it a recent thing?

Ask Andy Vernon!!!

Calvin Johnson · 01-03-2015 10:41am

tang1 wrote: »

Ask Andy Vernon!!!

I saw their twitter thing. I agree Farah comes across very arrogant. There seemed to be a bit of tension when they came 1st and 2nd last summer.

tang1 · 01-03-2015 10:47am

Calvin Johnson wrote: »

I saw their twitter thing. I agree Farah comes across very arrogant. There seemed to be a bit of tension when they came 1st and 2nd last summer.

In fairness, Vernon seems to be speak before he thinks on twitter. He had a similar row last year with Lyndsay Sharp over her winning a medal at the Europeans.

Chivito550 · 01-03-2015 1:00pm

Calvin Johnson wrote: »

A lot of you don't seem to like Farah - is there a reason why? Have you always disliked him or is it a recent thing?

I don't like him because of something he said to me in Moscow. I asked the Kenyan beside him in the press conference why nobody tries to push the pace early to try beat Farah rather than accept silver and bronze. He didn't really understand the question, hesitated, and then Mo butts in and says "he's Irish, that's why you can't understand". And then he has the cheek to cry racism last week with Andy Vernon!

walshb · 01-03-2015 1:20pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

says "he's Irish, that's why you can't understand". And then he has the cheek to cry racism last week with Andy Vernon!

Very poor form to stoop that low.

thirstywork2 · 01-03-2015 2:51pm

Farah was finishing down the field in BMC races and not even the top runner in the UK for years. He was living in a house with Mica Kogo amongst others for several years, he was eating, sleeping, living the Kenyan way of life and he did improve A LOT, from a 13.30's guy to a 13.10 guy. Suddenly after a few months with Salazar he is the world No. 1 by some distance and looks invincible? he has had every possible opportunity throughout his lifetime as an athlete, he has trained at altitude for years, he has never had a job, he has lived and breathed athletics, then suddenly he goes from somebody who struggles to make world finals to World No.1 Do I buy it, no.

I watched him run some league track races a couple of years ago and he was killing himself to run 1.50/1.51, he's now doing that for the last 800m of a 5k.

Netwerk_Errer · 01-03-2015 3:14pm

thirstywork2 wrote: »

Farah was finishing down the field in BMC races and not even the top runner in the UK for years. He was living in a house with Mica Kogo amongst others for several years, he was eating, sleeping, living the Kenyan way of life and he did improve A LOT, from a 13.30's guy to a 13.10 guy. Suddenly after a few months with Salazar he is the world No. 1 by some distance and looks invincible? he has had every possible opportunity throughout his lifetime as an athlete, he has trained at altitude for years, he has never had a job, he has lived and breathed athletics, then suddenly he goes from somebody who struggles to make world finals to World No.1 Do I buy it, no.

I watched him run some league track races a couple of years ago and he was killing himself to run 1.50/1.51, he's now doing that for the last 800m of a 5k.

Mo ran 12:57 6 months before joining Salazar, there's a lot of truth bending going in this thread. You make it sound like he went to Salazar running 13:10 and a few months later, he was a worldbeater which is false. Mo has never run 1:50/1:51 gor the last 800m of a 5k.

About his 800m time where he struggled to run 800 in 1.50/1.51. His PR was run in 2003. He ran 1:48.69 in Eton at 20y/o

Ghost in Cratloe · 01-03-2015 3:51pm

Netwerk_Errer wrote: »

Mo ran 12:57 6 months before joining Salazar, there's a lot of truth bending going in this thread. You make it sound like he went to Salazar running 13:10 and a few months later, he was a worldbeater which is false. Mo has never run 1:50/1:51 gor the last 800m of a 5k.

About his 800m time where he struggled to run 800 in 1.50/1.51. His PR was run in 2003. He ran 1:48.69 in Eton at 20y/o

For a woman/man that likes her/his stats you may want to get the stopwatch out and replay the last 800 of the 2013 World championship 5000 in Moscow. Tick Tock.

NiallG4 · 01-03-2015 4:03pm

Netwerk_Errer wrote: »

Mo ran 12:57 6 months before joining Salazar, there's a lot of truth bending going in this thread. You make it sound like he went to Salazar running 13:10 and a few months later, he was a worldbeater which is false. Mo has never run 1:50/1:51 gor the last 800m of a 5k.

About his 800m time where he struggled to run 800 in 1.50/1.51. His PR was run in 2003. He ran 1:48.69 in Eton at 20y/o

And I quote
"I worked harder this year than last year," he added. "My split of 1min 51sec for the last 800m shows that. The guys who finished second and third could win any championships. They could have beaten me in London."

Maybe you can now change your condescending tone. We all have our own opinions. Maybe you think a guy closing a 5K with a 1.51 800M is just nice progression but I for one don't buy it.

How does Mo Farah stack up in the history books?

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