Would you pay 2 months deposit?

Brussels Sprout

I've just looked at an apartment in Cork which I'd definitely consider renting. However, the landlord wants two months rent as a deposit (and a month's rent paid in advance). I queried him on this as I thought that one month was the standard and he replied "I don't want to keep your money. I just want to make sure that I get it back the way I gave it out".

If there was a third party body holding the rent, like there is in the UK I'd be happier about this but I'm really uncertain about this. It seems I have to place a lot of trust in him that he'll be honest at the end of the tenancy.

Have people experienced this before? Would you pay 2 months rent as a deposit?

pandoraj09

I think two months is excessive...So that's 3 months rent you are expected to had over?? The landlord is being unfair here IMO

shruikan2553

I've come across it once, never called that estate agent again.

Arbiter of Good Taste

pandoraj09 wrote: »

I think two months is excessive...So that's 3 months rent you are expected to had over?? The landlord is being unfair here IMO

Actually, it's getting more common. Landlords need to protect themselves, and more and more people seem to try and use the deposit as last months' rent, leaving the LL with no protection.

It's not unreasonable IMO, but if you don't like it, then unless the rental market is slow where you are, then you will probably just have to walk away

quadrifoglio verde

It's a way to get the better tenants...if he can pay two months deposit without any difficulty well then in the landlords mind he's reducing the chances of getting someone in who'll pay on time.
Would I pay 2 months deposit, when the norm is one? Yes provided it's for something at the higher end of the market. Not for a 'studio' with a crying chair

Squatman

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I've just looked at an apartment in Cork which I'd definitely consider renting. However, the landlord wants two months rent as a deposit (and a month's rent paid in advance). I queried him on this as I thought that one month was the standard and he replied "I don't want to keep your money. I just want to make sure that I get it back the way I gave it out".

If there was a third party body holding the rent, like there is in the UK I'd be happier about this but I'm really uncertain about this. It seems I have to place a lot of trust in him that he'll be honest at the end of the tenancy.

Have people experienced this before? Would you pay 2 months rent as a deposit?

nobody can sell anything for more than what someone is willing to pay... having said that, i was asked for 6 weeks deposit. I didnt take it,it really is taking the piss. Id be more likely to abuse the place in spite of the LL.

mirrorwall14

If the landlord was willing to place the deposit with a neutral third party such as a solicitor (at his expense) then I'd have no problem with it. Otherwise, not a chance.

The_Conductor

2 or even 3 month's deposit is rapidly becoming the norm here.
To be honest- we do need an agency to manage deposits akin to in the UK- acceptance from tenants that 2 or 3 months is now the norm and their money is lodged with the agency, prompt payment of the deposit to the agency, and prompt return, less acceptable deductions, at the end of the tenancy.

We also need to get over our letting of property furnished lark- a lot of the furniture is tat that no-one really wants, but tenants expect it anyway. Ireland and the UK are almost unique in a global context in the extent of furnished residential property we let.

Tenants and landlords have both muddied the water with the 1 month deposit lark- its not working- but we don't have the mechanisms in place to replace it in an acceptable manner for either tenants or landlords.

At the moment there is a shortage of residential rental property particularly in Dublin but also in Cork and Galway. If a landlord wants 2 or 3 months deposit- they will find a tenant willing to pay it- many tenants will turn up their noses at the proposition- but you can be certain they will let the property.

visual

You know your dealing with a greedy git who is only going to look for any excuse to line their pocket.

I rather say thanks but no thanks and find a resonable landlord.

Let some other fool tie up their money with a landlord who might not even be paying the mortgage.

davo10

visual wrote: »

You know your dealing with a greedy git who is only going to look for any excuse to line their pocket.

I rather say thanks but no thanks and find a resonable landlord.

Let some other fool tie up their money with a landlord who might not even be paying the mortgage.

Not greedy, if he holds onto it the tenant can go to PRTB or get legal advice. However if as often happens the tenant doesn't pay the last months rent, doesn't give notice or causes damage in excess of the deposit, the LL has little hope of getting the money. Right now LLs can be choosy about who they let in, I have always returned deposits but I have also been burned by tenants who have given bounced cheques, no notice etc. I now ask for 2 months deposit and I make no apology for that. If the tenant keeps up their end, they get it back, if not then if rent is not paid I know I have 2 months to organise whatever I legally need to do.

Some other "fool" gets a nice house or apartment, you get in line for what's left out there. I think as well, if a LL is asking for 2 months deposit, they have nice stuff in there they want to protect. But right now, particularly in Dublin it's a LLs market so if they want 2 months, make no mistake, there are loads who are willing to pay it.

Diane Selwyn

rented for nearly 25 years in different countries and never been asked for more than 1 month deposit - as the other poster said it would have to be a pretty darn special apartment to warrant handing over that much cash with no security other than the landlord's more often than not totally cruddy furniture. I wouldn't consider it unless there was such a desperate shortage (like in Dublin right about now) that I was facing imminent homelessness. If I did agree to it I would want to have it documented to the nth degree - maybe have a solicitor look at the agreement - definitely take photos of everything and its mother on moving in to the property.

The_Conductor

visual wrote: »

You know your dealing with a greedy git who is only going to look for any excuse to line their pocket.

I rather say thanks but no thanks and find a resonable landlord.

Let some other fool tie up their money with a landlord who might not even be paying the mortgage.

You have no idea.
My sister had tenants who lit a barbeque at the back of the house beside a gas tank and caused structural damage to 4 units (Bridge Street in Galway- immediately behind Jurys).
You would be quite astounded at the propensity for stupidity- and mind- its not just tenants, its people in general- otherwise intelligent people who you'd imagine know what they're doing- can cause the most ridiculous of damage through negligence and/or stupidity. I've a neighbour who put off fixing a leaking washing machine- which over the course of several weeks leaked into an adjoining townhouse and 2 apartments underneath. Insurance are refusing to cover it (for whatever reason)- so thats 12k of reparation work the management company is going to have to fork out for........

There are lots of tenants out there who have caused several month's worth of rent in damage to units- often of a nature that insurance will not cover.

Yes- there are lots of cowboy landlords who have unfairly garnished deposits- and they should be reported to the PRTB and made answer for their actions- we need to get rid of amateur landlords by whatever mechanisms we possibly can- we have no place for them in our society. We also have no place for tenants who act the mick- and we certainly have plenty of them too.....

shruikan2553

Actually something I noticed is the places looking for the larger deposits tend to be average at most. The best places are more expensive for rent so must filter out the tenants with more money.

The_Conductor

Diane Selwyn wrote: »

rented for nearly 25 years in different countries and never been asked for more than 1 month deposit - as the other poster said it would have to be a pretty darn special apartment to warrant handing over that much cash with no security other than the landlord's more often than not totally cruddy furniture. I wouldn't consider it unless there was such a desperate shortage (like in Dublin right about now) that I was facing imminent homelessness. If I did agree to it I would want to have it documented to the nth degree - maybe have a solicitor look at the agreement - definitely take photos of everything and its mother on moving in to the property.

I'll put it this way- if you refused to pay your rent in London, Paris- or damn near anywhere else- you could be certain you'd be out of the property in jig time. Here in Ireland- it could be 6 months, 12 months- 18 months- or even 2 years, before a landlord manages to get their property back.

I've already issued warnings and infractions to 5 people in various threads in this forum today- who were suggesting to other people not to bother paying their rent- sure it'll take the landlord forever to get them out of the property.

Irish residential tenancies are founded on flawed assumptions, flawed mechanisms, laws that aren't working, and agencies who don't have the resources to deal with issues as they arise (such as landlord's unfairly keeping deposits they are not entitled to- or tenants not paying their rent, in the knowledge it will take the landlord a protracted period of time to get them out of the property)........

We have a flawed system.

Diane Selwyn

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'll put it this way- if you refused to pay your rent in London, Paris- or damn near anywhere else- you could be certain you'd be out of the property in jig time. Here in Ireland- it could be 6 months, 12 months- 18 months- or even 2 years, before a landlord manages to get their property back.

I've already issued warnings and infractions to 5 people in various threads in this forum today- who were suggesting to other people not to bother paying their rent- sure it'll take the landlord forever to get them out of the property.

Irish residential tenancies are founded on flawed assumptions, flawed mechanisms, laws that aren't working, and agencies who don't have the resources to deal with issues as they arise (such as landlord's unfairly keeping deposits they are not entitled to- or tenants not paying their rent, in the knowledge it will take the landlord a protracted period of time to get them out of the property)........

We have a flawed system.

I did not mean to infer that the op should withhold rent. Sorry if that was unclear.

anothernight

I wouldn't mind at all as long as it was taken by an independent party, rather than the landlord himself.

I'm currently renting a very nice house in the UK, and the agency had an independent company draw up the most detailed inventory, several pages long, which included information on which bits wouldn't incur a deduction of the deposit due to wear and tear or breakage (such as glasses and plates), and which bits the landlord doesn't mind that we remove (decorative candleholders, etc). The list of preexisting faults included tiny marks on a corner of the floor that we couldn't see with the naked eye (I don't know how the company found them, tbh) and a slightly dusty light fixture.

With an insanely thorough pre-renting inventory, and an independent party to mind the deposit, I honestly wouldn't mind if they'd asked us for two months' rent. Then again, over here they do credit checks before renting out a property, so they wouldn't need to increase the deposit to screen out people who may not be able to pay anyway.

Mrs OBumble

For a quality property, with a good landlord, yes.

davo10

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

For a quality property, with a good landlord, yes.

For a good tenant, One month. Yes.

But how do LLs know if a tenant is good? A s**t tenant has far more rights and protection from eviction than a LL has.

handlemaster

Two months should be standard. A months rent does'nt cover much when damage occurs not to mention hassle of organising the clean up etc. Then theres the time period it cant be rented.

makeorbrake

visual wrote: »

You know your dealing with a greedy git who is only going to look for any excuse to line their pocket.

...or perhaps you are dealing with a 'git' who has had a very bad experience with a previous tenant and/or with a cumbersome, unhelpful PRTB.

visual wrote: »

Let some other fool tie up their money with a landlord who might not even be paying the mortgage.

Is it possible that people will stop using this as a pretext to beat up on landlords in general! That's not directly relevant to the OP's query. In fact, it's not even indirectly relevant to the OP's query. Therefore, it's an irrelevance.

visual

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'll put it this way- if you refused to pay your rent in London, Paris- or damn near anywhere else- you could be certain you'd be out of the property in jig time. Here in Ireland- it could be 6 months, 12 months- 18 months- or even 2 years, before a landlord manages to get their property back.

I've already issued warnings and infractions to 5 people in various threads in this forum today- who were suggesting to other people not to bother paying their rent- sure it'll take the landlord forever to get them out of the property.

Irish residential tenancies are founded on flawed assumptions, flawed mechanisms, laws that aren't working, and agencies who don't have the resources to deal with issues as they arise (such as landlord's unfairly keeping deposits they are not entitled to- or tenants not paying their rent, in the knowledge it will take the landlord a protracted period of time to get them out of the property)........

We have a flawed system.

a very flawed system where a lot of rental properties aren't fit to be rented and way below standard.

davo10

visual wrote: »

a very flawed system where a lot of rental properties aren't fit to be rented and way below standard.

Which ones?

Grandpa Hassan

Diane Selwyn wrote: »

rented for nearly 25 years in different countries and never been asked for more than 1 month deposit - as the other poster said it would have to be a pretty darn special apartment to warrant handing over that much cash with no security other than the landlord's more often than not totally cruddy furniture. I wouldn't consider it unless there was such a desperate shortage (like in Dublin right about now) that I was facing imminent homelessness. If I did agree to it I would want to have it documented to the nth degree - maybe have a solicitor look at the agreement - definitely take photos of everything and its mother on moving in to the property.

Obviously never rented in London. 6 weeks to 2 months is the norm. The deposit is help in the deposit protection scheme, and the inventory clerk is independent. The system Ireland needs.

But the downside is that you don't get your cash back immediately on vacating your property (even if you're getting full deposit return). And in the meantime you'd have to put down 6 weeks to 2 months (plus a months rent in advance) on the new property.

So you could potentially have 4 to 5 months cumulative rent out the door for a period of time when moving house, before you get your deposit back on the previous place. In W London where I live, that's the guts of 8k

Bepolite

I'll be looking for the American system. First, Last and a security deposit. That's over €3K and I expect to have people ripping my arm off.

timetogo

Diane Selwyn wrote: »

rented for nearly 25 years in different countries and never been asked for more than 1 month deposit -

I rented in Australia for a few years. The deposit is held by a third party. If we were a day late with rent we got notice to move out. When we queried it with the agents they said it was just standard practice.

I was looking recently to buy in Dublin with a view to rent out. After doing the sums and taking into account the risk its really not with it here. Absolutely the renter needs rights but theyre skewed way too much in favour of the renter. Of course landlords will put up rents and demand bigger deposits to cover themselves. It doesn't benefit the consumer if they have all the rights. Small investors like me will move along to other investments meaning there is a shortage (and higher rents) when there needn't be.

Virtual

I wouldn't do it regardless if I can afford it or not. If the rent is 1000 euro/mo then you are freezing 2k of your money with this person for the duration of your contract.

If less people agree to this, then less landlords will demand it. Simple as.

davo10

Virtual87 wrote: »

I wouldn't do it regardless if I can afford it or not. If the rent is 1000 euro/mo then you are freezing 2k of your money with this person for the duration of your contract.

If less people agree to this, then less landlords will demand it. Simple as.

But at the moment there are more renters in Dublin then there are properties. If you don't agree to it, you can be certain that someone else will if that is the property they want.

The LL may look at it the other way, "I would not rent it to him with one months deposit regardless of how nice he/she seems"

Grolschevik

If a tenant is willing to use one month's rent worth of deposit as their last month's rent, what's to stop them using two?

A bad tenant will always be a bad tenant. A good tenant will always be a good tenant.

The move to two months deposit won't put off the former, but might put off the latter.

timetogo

Grolschevik wrote: »

If a tenant is willing to use one month's rent worth of deposit as their last month's rent, what's to stop them using two?

A bad tenant will always be a bad tenant. A good tenant will always be a good tenant.

The move to two months deposit won't put off the former, but might put off the latter.

A bad tenant probably won't have the two months rent to begin with.

Grolschevik

timetogo wrote: »

A bad tenant probably won't have the two months rent to begin with.

Possibly, but we've read plenty of accounts of good-bet professional couples taking the piss and leaving the place in a heap.

Plus, I'm pretty sure your average petty criminal/drug dealer/Love-Hate type would have no problem stumping up several months rent up front. There are no absolutes, and no "deposit principle" should trump getting proper sense of the other party to the letting arrangement.

mlumley

davo10 wrote: »

Which ones?

4 years ago, I went to look at a property in Cahir. The agent insisted the property I wanted to see was not suitable for me. Then insisted on showing me 3 flats in 1 house. I took one look at the 3 of them and would not put a dog in them, let alone ask my children to stay over in them. THEY WERE ****E.

I found some where else the next week. A wooden lodge at a well known country house out side Clonmel. I took it in desperation. By god, was it cold. When another apartment came vacant, I asked for it. Told no, some one might want it. I said I'm going to look in town, low and behold, the other person didn't want it.

I had jumped from the frying pan into the fire in reverse. It was so cold, I put a sleeping bag over the radiator, then over me to keep warm. I left as soon as I could.

The man only thought of his pocket, not the tenant.

I now have a nice house, been here 3 1/2 years, and have a good relationship with the agency, and will stay as long as I can.

I have been behind with my rent at times, but always make it up over time.

So, the moral to my story, there are some greedy LL's out there. But when you find a good one, tenants will stay.

There is a need for an agency to hold deposits, but they must be fair to LL's as well as tenants. There have been so many stories of tenants not getting the deposit back, and LL's holding on to it for the most childish reasons. But the tenant should photograph what the place was like when they move in, and the LL getting a copy. It would protect them both. May be LL's should do it to protect themselves, and show the tenant they mean business.

Sorry for the long post, but it is from a tenants side.