Property tax will be taken from wages and pensions...

Buzz Killington the third

This isn't a thread about people not paying tax or should have paid up, bla bla etc etc...

According to this article on the journal, the government have instructed over 40,000 companies so far to deduct the tax from people's wages. I received one of these letters 2 weeks ago and discarded it because I thought it was sent in error as I'd paid the tax. Looking at the comments on the journal article a lot of people are in the same situation and better yet, we now have to call revenue and sit on hold for however long it takes them to get to the call and then tell them we've actually paid so please don't take our money!

In today's age where everything is automated, how can government departments still f*ck up so monumentally?

http://www.thejournal.ie/property-tax-letters-tell-people-it-will-be-taken-from-their-wages-1547501-Jul2014/

BeerWolf

It's Ireland, our Government is incompetent.

Geuze

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

In today's age where everything is automated,

Except it's not.

Multiple databases, non-unique addresses, no database of house owners, different person owns house as to who pays LPT, etc.

Buzz Killington the third

Geuze wrote: »

Except it's not.

Multiple databases, non-unique addresses, no database of house owners, different person owns house as to who pays LPT, etc.

I have paid my property tax to revenue. How can the system now decide that I haven't?

shruikan2553

Government databases are more fragmented than the USSR. You would think they could run it better but it would require someone with knowledge of technology to automate it properly.

mathie

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

I have paid my property tax to revenue. How can the system now decide that I haven't?

I'm sorry Buzz, I'm afraid I can't do that

Quin_Dub

Geuze wrote: »

Except it's not.

Multiple databases, non-unique addresses, no database of house owners, different person owns house as to who pays LPT, etc.

Exactly..it's a shambles...

When the household charge came in last year between my wife and I we got 6 separate letters requesting payment - 3 to each of us all with slightly different versions of our address. The way all the locals say/spell the address , the way An Post do it and finally the way it is shown in County council paperwork (planning docs etc.)

All of which could be solved with a post-code..but that's a whole other story about government incompetence..

Geuze

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/lpt/index.html


It might be HHC arrears, maybe?

comongethappy

Got the payroll deduction notice yesterday.

Didn't pay the LPT because we received no notification/invoice/bill asking we do so!

I've no issue paying, but they could at least ask first.

Valetta

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

I have paid my property tax to revenue. How can the system now decide that I haven't?

Are you sure it is not in relation to the Household Charge from 2012?

jimgoose

There's a lot of this about - it was on the radio last week. It seems many were of the view that the old Household Charge, a.k.a. the "Big Phil" Payment, somehow evaporated once the Revenue took over the property tax. It didn't. If you haven't paid the original charge, plus late payment fees accrued since, you are not tax-compliant and Revenue Terminators are now getting on the case.

Geuze

comongethappy wrote: »

Got the payroll deduction notice yesterday.

Didn't pay the LPT because we received no notification/invoice/bill asking we do so!

I've no issue paying, but they could at least ask first.

I don't think anybody received a bill/request.

It was well advertised, everybody talking about it, I just went online and paid.

Buzz Killington the third

Valetta wrote: »

Are you sure it is not in relation to the Household Charge from 2012?

Na, they already nailed me for that when I put in a tax return last year... "Oh we see you've not paid the HHC so we're just going to deduct it from your tax refund!"

Meangadh

I got one of those letters yesterday saying money is going to be taken from my wages, and like you OP, thought I'd paid cos I definitely paid €200 to Revenue for LPT in April and gave them my evidence of that.

But they told me that this current money I owe is for 2014 and what I paid in April was a previous fee I owed and that this letter I got was because I didn't contact them to let them know my payment method. I can't keep up with it all, just feel like it's constant and so confusing- never mind the fact that all these payments are absolutely crippling me. I swear if anything else is demanded of me I'm not sure how I'll manage.

Geuze

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

Na, they already nailed me for that when I put in a tax return last year... "Oh we see you've not paid the HHC so we're just going to deduct it from your tax refund!"

Good to hear that they are efficient in that case at collecting taxes due.

comongethappy

Geuze wrote: »

It was well advertised

Yes, I have heard of it.....

I still don't think its unreasonable to expect to receive something telling you your LPT is due.

Buzz Killington the third

Geuze wrote: »

Good to hear that they are efficient in that case at collecting taxes due.

Less efficient in giving back the money when you've overpaid them!

Geuze

comongethappy wrote: »

Yes, I have heard of it.....

I still don't think its unreasonable to expect to receive something telling you your LPT is due.

Thinking back on it, we did get something in post about house valuation and LPT.

But I don't think we got anything about HHC...............

tayto lover

comongethappy wrote: »

Yes, I have heard of it.....

I still don't think its unreasonable to expect to receive something telling you your LPT is due.

The whole thing is a joke.
The roads are not even being swept around here. Litter everywhere. The money is not going to services at all and we all know where it's going. Govt friends have to be looked after first.

Barely There

tayto lover wrote: »

The whole thing is a joke.
The roads are not even being swept around here. Litter everywhere. The money is not going to services at all and we all know where it's going. Govt friends have to be looked after first.

It's like a pavlovian response - even when the thread is nothing to do with the merits of the LPT.



Lets try this one.


'Water Charges!'

comongethappy

tayto lover wrote: »

The whole thing is a joke.
The roads are not even being swept around here. Litter everywhere. The money is not going to services at all and we all know where it's going. Govt friends have to be looked after first.

Talk to your local authority then.

My street is swept between. 3am & 5am every 2nd night (annoyingly)

The merit of a tax can't be judged by the competence of those its intended for.

Buzz Killington the third

comongethappy wrote: »

I still don't think its unreasonable to expect to receive something telling you your LPT is due.

This is pretty much it. When a bill is due, you get a bill. When LPT is due, they do nothing and then swipe in to tell you they're taking it from your wages.

comongethappy

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

This is pretty much it. When a bill is due, you get a bill. When LPT is due, they do nothing and then swipe in to tell you they're taking it from your wages.

Exactly!

We get notified about the RTE tax & motor tax, but for some reason they don't bother with LPT.

HeidiHeidi

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

Less efficient in giving back the money when you've overpaid them!

Slightly O/T, but not in my experience. Once a return goes in, if you're owed you'll get the cheque fairly promptly.

c_man

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

In today's age where everything is automated, how can government departments still f*ck up so monumentally?

Collecting taxes and monies owed is seemingly the only somewhat efficient arm of the government...

iba

The reason as I understand it that IT systems from different Departments are not linked up eg Revenue, HSE and Social Welfare etc, is because of data protection issues.

If everything was linked up so much fraud would be cut out but as I said, data protection issues - one Gov. Dept. is not allowed to access data from another Gov. dept.

Buzz Killington the third

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Slightly O/T, but not in my experience. Once a return goes in, if you're owed you'll get the cheque fairly promptly.

But you have to put in the return. If their system can tell them that you owe them money then it can tell then that they owe you money. They'd never tell you though.

tayto lover

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

But you have to put in the return. If their system can tell them that you owe them money then it can tell then that they owe you money. They'd never tell you though.

This is not about giving you back your money, it's about taking as much as possible from you. The lads have to be looked after.

ScumLord

I think all governments are awkward by design to discourage the general public from trying to talk or contact them.

Even though things are slightly better in the UK in that they tend to do a better job when they get around to doing the job they're as awkward as any government. They have separate companies and departments dealing with the opposite ends of the same problems. So if you want something from one public service you have to contact a different company, then another completely different company replies to you and if anything goes wrong it's another company again that deals with the complaint. The Irish government just don't bother even making it look like their doing anything.

jimgoose

ScumLord wrote: »

I think all governments are awkward by design to discourage the general public from trying to talk or contact them....

I find Government departments highly articulate, perceptive, helpful and cheerful when you are giving them money in some way. When you are seeking assistance or information of some sort, what you've got is basically the Dementors from the Harry Potter stories. I really think it's that simple! :pac:

Buzz Killington the third

ScumLord wrote: »

I think all governments are awkward by design to discourage the general public from trying to talk or contact them.

Case in hand, phone the revenue about a PRSI issue and you'll get greeted by the options like:

Press 1 to pay your property tax
Press 2 for PRSI related queries

Press 1 and you can make a payment. Press 2 and you get an answering machine stating the lines are closed until whatever time because they're busy, then call back later and you're on hold for 30 minutes but sure then you'll have to fill out a few forms anyway.

ScumLord

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

Press 2 and you get an answering machine stating the lines are closed until whatever time because they're busy, then call back later and you're on hold for 30 minutes but sure then you'll have to fill out a few forms anyway.

You get the same message if you call the passport office, I think it's been the same message for the past 2 years. 2 years they've been too busy to answer the phone. They also don't answer emails and the tracking system on the website they keep directing you too doesn't update at all.

flutered

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

Case in hand, phone the revenue about a PRSI issue and you'll get greeted by the options like:

Press 1 to pay your property tax
Press 2 for PRSI related queries

Press 1 and you can make a payment. Press 2 and you get an answering machine stating the lines are closed until whatever time because they're busy, then call back later and you're on hold for 30 minutes but sure then you'll have to fill out a few forms anyway.

that is in case anyone could be accountable.

flutered

ScumLord wrote: »

You get the same message if you call the passport office, I think it's been the same message for the past 2 years. 2 years they've been too busy to answer the phone. They also don't answer emails and the tracking system on the website they keep directing you too doesn't update at all.

again no one answers so no one is responsible for anything, its the p.s. what do people expect, answers, yeah ted.

comongethappy

comongethappy wrote: »

Got the payroll deduction notice yesterday.

Didn't pay the LPT because we received no notification/invoice/bill asking we do so!

I've no issue paying, but they could at least ask first.

If you've no issue paying, then why didn't you? Now you've to pay double! NOONE got a bill, yet over 90% of homeowners paid.

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

If you've no issue paying, then why didn't you? Now you've to pay double! NOONE got a bill, yet over 90% of homeowners paid.

That's the nub of the issue. Why did nobody receive bills if they owe money?

When my var tax is up I get a notice. Insurance the same. The ESB bill me and Board Gas too.
Maybe it's because I paid Stamp Duty, Income Tax etc and they don't want to admit that its a double tax.

Valetta

tayto lover wrote: »

That's the nub of the issue. Why did nobody receive bills if they owe money?

When my var tax is up I get a notice. Insurance the same. The ESB bill me and Board Gas too.
Maybe it's because I paid Stamp Duty, Income Tax etc and they don't want to admit that its a double tax.

It's a self assessment tax, same as most others.

tayto lover

Valetta wrote: »

It's a self assessment tax, same as most others.

What was Stamp Duty for?

K-9

BeerWolf wrote: »

It's Ireland, our Government is incompetent.

Revenue are usually pretty decent, one of the easier departments to deal with, but they've made a balls of the property tax. Not helped by Government inaction, fudge and incompetence in implementing the thing and very poor records and information in other departments. In many ways, Revenue is the fall guy here.

In short, the Government made an omnishambles with the LPT, Revenue have to implement the damn, bloody thing.

comongethappy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you've no issue paying, then why didn't you? Now you've to pay double! NOONE got a bill, yet over 90% of homeowners paid.

Because I didn't receive a bill asking me to.
So I forgot.... That's the mindset: 'Get a bill = pay it..... Don't hear a thing = Forget.

I'm not sure what part of this is tricky to understand.

Valetta

tayto lover wrote: »

What was Stamp Duty for?

For the transfer of a property from one person to another.

comongethappy

comongethappy wrote: »

Because I didn't receive a bill asking me to.
So I forgot.... That's the mindset: 'Get a bill = pay it..... Don't hear a thing = Forget.

I'm not sure what part of this is tricky to understand.

The fact that it was all over the Newspapers, TV, Radio and Internet Forums. Joe Duffy for one was in his element teasing out peoples stories about how paying this charge would affect them!
It's a self assesment tax. As for those who have paid, send a copy of the receipt to Revenue. If this isn't enough, let them take you to court and show the Judge your proof.

flutered

Deleted User wrote: »

If you've no issue paying, then why didn't you? Now you've to pay double! NOONE got a bill, yet over 90% of homeowners paid.

if 90% has paid how come there is still a ra-ra about it, anyone on a gov pension has had deductions.

Ray Palmer

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

I have paid my property tax to revenue. How can the system now decide that I haven't?

No a letter was sent with text allowing you to correct their records. Ignore it and you get charged again.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

All of which could be solved with a post-code..but that's a whole other story about government incompetence..

Not really it has been announced and done and now just needs to be rolled out. The main problem with addresses was always the public adding and subtracting parts of their addresses along with changing/misspelling names combined with mixing Irish and English together.

markpb

comongethappy wrote: »

Because I didn't receive a bill asking me to.
So I forgot.... That's the mindset: 'Get a bill = pay it..... Don't hear a thing = Forget.

I'm not sure what part of this is tricky to understand.

It's easy to understand but unfortunately, for you, LPT is a self-assessed tax (like most countries) so it's up to you to be aware of it and pay it (like most countries). LPT isn't the first self-assessed tax in Ireland but it will be the first for many PAYE taxpayers. Ultimately one of your obligations as a property owner is to know to pay the tax.

No Pants

comongethappy wrote: »

We get notified about the RTE tax & motor tax, but for some reason they don't bother with LPT.

Anyone know how much it would cost to send at least one letter to each household in the country? Even a rough estimate?

According to the CSO, there were 1,658,243 households in the country in 2011. Multiplying that number by €0.60 (price of a stamp) gives me €994,945.80. That's assuming that the government pays the full price for each stamp, which they probably won't and excludes the cost of producing the letter and handing it over to An Post.

Normally the complaint is that the government wastes public money; are we now asking them to?

dxhound2005

There was no need to send a bill for the Household Charge. It was €100 for everyone and people had 18 months to pay it. Legislation was passed to require home owners by law to register and pay. That was the point of the whole Don't Register, Don't Pay CAHWT campaign. Where have CAHWT gone? They assured the country that there would be no consequences for anyone who followed their advice. They even said that they had a team of lawyers ready to take on the Government if the scenario which is unfolding now ever came to pass.

CAHWT must go down in the history of the state as the biggest omnishambles and completely ineffective campaign of all time. And as many of us predicted here they would be long gone when the time came for people to pay double the money.

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There was no need to send a bill for the Household Charge. It was €100 for everyone and people had 18 months to pay it. Legislation was passed to require home owners by law to register and pay. That was the point of the whole Don't Register, Don't Pay CAHWT campaign. Where have CAHWT gone? They assured the country that there would be no consequences for anyone who followed their advice. They even said that they had a team of lawyers ready to take on the Government if the scenario which is unfolding now ever came to pass.

CAHWT must go down in the history of the state as the biggest omnishambles and completely ineffective campaign of all time. And as many of us predicted here they would be long gone when the time came for people to pay double the money.

Big Phil or Happy Gilmour ? Who do you think will get the big payback for crucifying their own people?

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

Big Phil or Happy Gilmour ? Who do you think will get the big payback for crucifying their own people?

The People would be crucified for sure if the Country kept borrowing as it had been, just to keep the country in day to day spending. Broadening the tax base is the only solution. We ALL must play our part in getting Ireland back on track.

No Pants

dxhound2005 wrote: »

CAHWT must go down in the history of the state as the biggest omnishambles and completely ineffective campaign of all time.

I don't know. The "Omnishambles" category is an oversubscribed one.

tayto lover

No Pants wrote: »

I don't know. The "Omnishambles" category is an oversubscribed one.

You could put Hogan and Dicey Reilly in that category too.