Burke Family vs NUI Galway

saidinmilamber

I think this needs it's own thread as it's separate to the SU elections (sort of).

So the Burke Family, aka the Tesco-Value Westborough Baptist Church, set up an anti-gay stall upstairs in the concourse. Naturally the extremely left-wing student population told them the get the out, and removed their propaganda posters. The Burkes called the Gardaí, who came and instead helped the students to remove the posters before leaving and ordered them to leave. For some reason after that, the Gardaí left. They're currently up there surrounded by a ring of students as they cling to their last poster dramatically. GIG Soc, the college LGBT society, just had a mock gay marriage in front of them, resulting in massive applause.

Squeeonline

Damn, I miss NUIG.

I really hope loads of gay couples started kissing in front of them. Wonder if would be considered murder if the Burkes all died of aneurysms...

Hopefully this action will be the last straw for the university admin and they'll just be kicked out and told to pi55 of back to their church until they want to be part of civil society.

LoonyLovegood

Photos?

saidinmilamber

CTYIgirl wrote: »

Photos?

Sorry, the one I attached was broken. It's there now. I'm uploading a video of the staged gay marriage at the moment. Will pop up there and take a few more snaps now...

Tramps Like Us

Would you not just smash their noticeboard and waterballoon/egg them? Job done.

snubbleste

No pigeons..

saidinmilamber

Here's the video of the staged gay marriage. The SU President just gave a speech up there and asked people to just ignore them, disband, and remember not to vote for Enoch Burke tomorrow as Equality officer if you don't support their stance on same-sex marriage.

Tarjh

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Would you not just smash their noticeboard and waterballoon/egg them? Job done.

Who do you think the Gardai would be forced to side with then?

Tramps Like Us

Tarjh wrote: »

Who do you think the Gardai would be forced to side with then?

Who cares? Hate mongers should not be allowed any platform to spread their hate within a college, whether its homophobes, anti semites, rascists or whomever. If the college wont sort it you force their hand and the students should sort it themselves (I'm not saying to shoot people, waterbaloons!)

saidinmilamber

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Would you not just smash their noticeboard and waterballoon/egg them? Job done.

There's rules of engagement for this kind of thing. One must not resort to any kind of violence as that's really and truly what they want. One student trashed their stand early on, which lead to the Gardaí being called in the first place. Probably not the best thing to have done. GIG Soc will need to be vigilant of this happening in future, as it's up to them to make sure a counter-protest is handled with dignity.

dropping_bombs

This is so annoying. Unfortunately these people should be allowed to protest without being harassed. Don't get me wrong here, I think the opinion of the Burke family is incorrect but they weren't doing anything illegal and thus should not be heckled and bullied. If this was the other way around and people were heckling a pro-Palestine protest for example they would be branded "fascists" and intolerant. This is a classic example of the tolerance paradox and the hive mind of people.

Tomorrow the Christian Union's position will be defeated rightly, but who are we to push our views on them?

Tramps Like Us

You are young, leave the sniveling and hand wringing till your thirties at least.

Student activism ain't what it used to be I guess.

This type of prolonged standoff and attention is what they want, it could have been handled in ten minutes and the prospect of other hateful protests ended right there instead this will drag on and on now.

I often think that Westoboro baptist church and co wouldn't be tolerated here as they'd be "moved on" pretty sharpish but maybe not.

Tramps Like Us

dropping_bombs wrote: »

This is so annoying. Unfortunately these people should be allowed to protest without being harassed. Don't get me wrong here, I think the opinion of the Burke family is incorrect but they weren't doing anything illegal and thus should not be heckled and bullied. If this was the other way around and people were heckling a pro-Palestine protest for example they would be branded "fascists" and intolerant. This is a classic example of the tolerance paradox and the hive mind of people.

Tomorrow the Christian Union's position will be defeated rightly, but who are we to push our views on them?

If a pro palestine protest were calling sections of the student body "abominations" or for the denial of the rights of Jewish students and running for SU office on that platform then yes they should also be moved along

Dont make false equivalences

saidinmilamber

Here's some more photos.

http://imgur.com/a/pnYaJ#0

saidinmilamber

dropping_bombs wrote: »

This is so annoying. Unfortunately these people should be allowed to protest without being harassed. Don't get me wrong here, I think the opinion of the Burke family is incorrect but they weren't doing anything illegal and thus should not be heckled and bullied. If this was the other way around and people were heckling a pro-Palestine protest for example they would be branded "fascists" and intolerant. This is a classic example of the tolerance paradox and the hive mind of people.

Tomorrow the Christian Union's position will be defeated rightly, but who are we to push our views on them?

I fully support their right to protest out in the streets. I do not support them protesting inside a building in a public university while utilising public funding via the Christian Union Society. They're welcome to protest at the college gates, preferably when it's raining...

dropping_bombs

saidinmilamber wrote: »

I fully support their right to protest out in the streets. I do not support them protesting inside a building in a public university while utilising public funding via the Christian Union Society. They're welcome to protest at the college gates, preferably when it's raining...

Actually ya, this never occurred to me. I presume the Father was the main man at this protest? Why is he allowed disrupt the peace on the campus?

astonaidan

saidinmilamber wrote: »

Here's the video of the staged gay marriage. The SU President just gave a speech up there and asked people to just ignore them, disband, and remember not to vote for Enoch Burke tomorrow as Equality officer if you don't support their stance on same-sex marriage.

The marriage will never last, there was no passion in the kiss

Lapin

saidinmilamber wrote: »

just had a mock gay marriage in front of them, resulting in massive applause.

Two Gardaí arrived at the door while that was going on, took one look in at all the muppetry going on, raised their eyes to heaven, turned round and fecked off again.

Can't say I blame them.

LoonyLovegood

And the journal have an article on it... http://www.thejournal.ie/student-protest-nuig-1358694-Mar2014/?utm_source=facebook_short

spiritcrusher

Was just at it there and a few people were trying to get a bit of half reasonable debate going when the Dad came out with the frankly bizarre logic that, essentially, because of all the cases in America of 50 year old men "loving", as he put it, 3 year old boys that gay men are basically peodophiles. Conveniently ignoring all the fathers raping daughters that also happens all over the world.
Plenty of "scripture says..." and "I hate the sin not the person" going on too, complete with one girl busting out the tried and tested "I have gay friends but..." line.
Highlight was 3 or 4 of them angrily pointing and wagging fingers to the crowd when some guy let out "Shake harder boy!"

skinnygeness

I can't believe I'm missing this today.
I was giving out to one of the Burke's brother at the Life Soc stand as they had a sign that reported that "your 224 euro student levy goes for abortion on demand", I asked him to explain to me how was that possible and if I needed an abortion would I just go to the students union? He obviously dismissed me so I wrote to SU president, next thing you know the sign's gone.
They are nothing more than a bunch of liars and they can't hide their real nature any longer.

skinnygeness

also why is the father even there?

Timmyctc

I dont understand people standing up for their "Freedom of speech" what they're saying is inherently incorrect and basically a hate crime.
Tis a farce

All the same, a good oul fashioned Gay Bashing.

ciano1

Burke for Equality officer!

Squeeonline

I want it on the record that I hated and protested against the Burkes before it was cool.

saidinmilamber

Ok, it just disbanded entirely about 6pm, so here are some thoughts having seen almost the whole thing.

First things first, this began as a family, the Burkes of Castlebar, set up a stand in NUIG today at about 1pm in the concourse to promote the NO vote for the referendum for the Student Union of NUI Galway to support the right for same sex couples to marry. This was done legitimately and through the Buildings Office due to their children Enoch Burke and Isaac Burke, student of NUI Galway, holding the positions of auditor of the NUI Galway Christian Union Society and NUI Galway Pro-Life society respectively. This family has frequently been documented to engage in a specific agenda that targets gay rights, from their involvement in opposing the Civil Partnership Bill in 2010, defamation of David Norris later that year during his presidential campaign, their subsequent Supreme Court challenge to Civil Partnership, and other campaigns featuring reliance on linking homosexuality to pedophilia and beastiality.

Things got heated, when on displaying their posters which linked gay students to pedophilia. One individual pulled down their posters, a struggle ensued, and the table got knocked over. At this point, many students started gathering and declaring their disdain for the Burke family's message. The Gardaí were called by the Burke family, who wished to have their right to lobby for the NO vote maintained.

The Gardaí arrived shortly after this, and on hearing the Burke family's side of the story, the Gardaí took the student's side and asked them to leave, declared that their posters were slanderous to Irish citizens, and removed most of the posters themselves. Two members of the Burke family threw themselves in the way of one remaining poster dramatically, the Gardaí rolled their eyes and left, stating that this was a matter for the campus security to deal with. The crowds of students gathered around at this point were cheering and celebrating, and were looking at the Burke family with ridicule. The Burke family, instead of leaving, decided to stage a standing protest, which they engaged in silently.

Following this, GIG Soc and ShoutOut Society (NUIG's LGBT Societies), lead peaceful protests. One in which a same-sex marriage ceremony was staged in front of the Burke family, and another where a ring of students surrounded the family with rainbow placards stating, "Love, Not Hate". Student Union president, Sean Kearns, spoke out in front of the gathered crowds and asked people to disband and that those that disagreed with the family (the majority of those present) could voice their opinion by voting for anyone but Enoch Burke in the upcoming SU election for the position of Equality Officer. Most of the crowd of students disbanded at this point (about 2.30pm).

At about 3.30pm, things began to heat up again with the arrival of members of the NUI Galway Christian Union Society, and the previously silent Burke family now began exclaiming their rhetoric of linking homosexuals to pedophiles. The crowd of remaining students were encouraged not to engage with them by Maria O'Flaherty, auditor of ShoutOut Soc, but some people booed and shouted for them to leave. The counter-protesters then began to sing "All You Need Is Love" over and over and engaged in a sitting protest in front of them.

At about 4.30pm, with the arrival of hundreds of new onlookers, the protesters began to complain about their stand being destroyed and their voices silenced. So the crowd responded to that and shut up. Leaders of the counter protest encouraged them to vocalise what their message is, and the crowd obliged. They mainly spoke about how pissed off they were that their posters were removed along with their voices, and that marriage would slip into ruin if gays were to marry. Once they were done, several members of the crowd were allowed to talk, a few apologised for the individual that originally knocked their stand, and explained that these posters and their agenda seeks to remove not only their voices, but their rights as tax payers. The Burkes & Christian Union began shouting down the crowd members, and control of the situation shifted into chaos. Eventually this democracy was restored and the two groups began to communicate and discuss what exactly they were doing right now and that the Burkes should just leave campus.

This all died down at about 6pm, when most of the students left after being encouraged to by the leaders of the crowd. The Christian Union members also left at this point, leaving behind a now ignored Burke family. They too left at about 6.30pm.

---

All in all, this was an incredible display of democracy by the counter-protesters. The Burkes could very easily have become martyrs for their homophobic cause, but were instead met with a blend of cheesiness, lighthearted eyerolling, open minded disagreement, and a group of strong and intelligent debaters. I've been involved in gay rights protesting in Ireland for 10 years, and this was just an incredible experience. My faith in humanity is massively restored.

Hunchback

ciano1 wrote: »

Burke for Equality officer!

Is this just the most audacious meta-troll of all time? Über piss-take is über :eek: How can she justify it? What's the spin?

SOO confused by her runnng as Equality Officer

Reiver

Wow.

Interesting to read. Here in UL a proposal for a pro-Life society was narrowly defeated at a Clubs/Socs council meeting. Glad we've avoided this ugliness!

Fair play for not letting the whole affair get out of hand as well apart from the one incident with the stand, it seemed people behaved themselves!

FouxDaFaFa

Thanks for writing that saidinmilamber, it's good to hear from someone who was there.

MadYaker

Thanks for the summary. Wednesday is a busy day for me so I only passed by once or twice all I really saw was two girls clinging to one of the poster stands and a few gardai milling around the place. Its nice to see there was some proper civilised debate and not just chaos. I wonder will they maintain their protest at the main entrance to college after this?

hfallada

Why does a Christan Union society feel the need to hate against a minority? I imagine they wouldnt be allowed to actively spread hate against an ethic minority in a public funded institution.

Member 420

Jaysus the amount of media coverage this has got.

I think the Burke's shot themselves in the foot today, they could have walked away after the Gardaí left, but no, they chose to create a scene & it completely backfired on them. Over the entire afternoon I would say 500 different people were there at the protest, Many of whom may not have even been aware of the referendum & elections tomorrow. I would like to think more than 90% of voters will vote yes tomorrow & also that both Burkes will fail in the officer elections as them & their views are pretty much known by most of the college at this stage, along with the fact that they are both up against very strong candidates.

Look, those posters comparing Homosexuality to Paedophilia & Incest are completely out of line. They also bear the Christian Union societies name & therefore the CU have to take responsibility.

CKonetheonlyone wrote: »

Is this just the most audacious meta-troll of all time? Über piss-take is über :eek: How can she justify it? What's the spin?

SOO confused by her runnng as Equality Officer

Enoch Burke is a guy...

A few people I was talking to today thought it was a girl as well, odd enough name tbf.

saidinmilamber

hfallada wrote: »

Why does a Christan Union society feel the need to hate against a minority? I imagine they wouldnt be allowed to actively spread hate against an ethic minority in a public funded institution.

Because they're the minority now. Most people support same-sex marriage, gay or not.

jimboblep

I think they should be allowed to have their little display it only highlights the stupidity of their cause
Instead of heckling and jeering a few of the sharper members of the debating society should of engaged them and dismantled their "theories" lord knows it wouldnt be difficult.
On a side note the worst thing to do is physically assault them or their property, as if they are anything like the westboro nutters they make their living from lawsuits from goading people into assaulting them

robman60

As an onlooker, I just want to say how badly many of the posters here represent NUIG.

I actually disagree with their stance on not allowing civil marriage for homosexuals, but that's beside the point. The bizarre irony is that the so called liberal, open-minded left wingers are actually the most intolerant of those differing from their own. I mean people encouraging destruction of their stall? It's absolutely disgusting and an insult to democracy and free expression of opinions.

I'm an LC student currently and currently have an NUIG course on my CAO. Student life is obviously important to me and such a hostile environment for expression of opinions isn't something I'm willing to endure. I will be removing NUIG from my CAO come the 1st of May. I'm just glad change of mind is still available to me.

takamichinoku

robman, by the sounds of it it was remarkably peaceful considering the numbers involved and the fact that it's something that has been brewing up for a long time with this weird little family and their trolling. If you're thinking that another university in Ireland wouldn't potentially have at least one person who would be so ridiculously violent as to tear down a few extremely bigoted posters, you're probably quite mistaken.

I'd argue dudes like the Burkes are pretty much trying to make themselves martyrs and I'm glad to hear that they got confronted on such a scale without being gave much at all to feed off.

SeanJ09

So this guy Eunoch Burke is against same- sex marriage and he's going for "Equality" officer? :pac:

WallyGUFC

robman60 wrote: »

As an onlooker, I just want to say how badly many of the posters here represent NUIG.

I actually disagree with their stance on not allowing civil marriage for homosexuals, but that's beside the point. The bizarre irony is that the so called liberal, open-minded left wingers are actually the most intolerant of those differing from their own. I mean people encouraging destruction of their stall? It's absolutely disgusting and an insult to democracy and free expression of opinions.

I'm an LC student currently and currently have an NUIG course on my CAO. Student life is obviously important to me and such a hostile environment for expression of opinions isn't something I'm willing to endure. I will be removing NUIG from my CAO come the 1st of May. I'm just glad change of mind is still available to me.

I think that's a bizarre trail of thought. This family, through the union they are heavily involved in, have put up extremely homophobic posters around the college. And yet, one of them is running for equality officer. I think what happened today was democracy in action. The stamping out of bullies with stone-age and highly insulting views can only be a good thing. When some sort of debate was started up today, this family talked over people with different views to themselves.
They embarrassed themselves and I felt embarrassed watching them, embarrassed that people could be capable of holding such outrageous views. The sight of 2 of them protecting their one last poster was absolutely comical. Will be interesting to view the counts after tomorrow's votes.

Timmyctc

robman60 wrote: »

As an onlooker, I just want to say how badly many of the posters here represent NUIG.

I actually disagree with their stance on not allowing civil marriage for homosexuals, but that's beside the point. The bizarre irony is that the so called liberal, open-minded left wingers are actually the most intolerant of those differing from their own. I mean people encouraging destruction of their stall? It's absolutely disgusting and an insult to democracy and free expression of opinions.

I'm an LC student currently and currently have an NUIG course on my CAO. Student life is obviously important to me and such a hostile environment for expression of opinions isn't something I'm willing to endure. I will be removing NUIG from my CAO come the 1st of May. I'm just glad change of mind is still available to me.

Hate Speech is okay. Preventing hate Speech is not.

10/10 for logic buddy.

Foxx92

robman60 wrote: »

It's absolutely disgusting and an insult to democracy and free expression of opinions.

Equality of all humans trumps freedom of speech any day. They were seeking to give a subset of humans less rights than the rest, so as far as I'm concerned they lost their rights to freedom of speech at that point.

Member 420

& not only that, they compared a section of society, indeed a section of the student population to paedophiles.

Member 420

No comment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bxylFvhnHg

Manco

So proud of NUIG today.

periodictable

Wonder what they get up to at home if they behave like this in public

SeanJ09

To be honest, you have to feel sorry for these Burke kids. They've been brainwashed through private tuition by their parents.

saidinmilamber

Here's another video from earlier when the counter-protest sit-in started.

h2005

SeanJ09 wrote: »

To be honest, you have to feel sorry for these Burke kids. They've been brainwashed through private tuition by their parents.

I feel for the pigeons too. They must have been wondering wtf was going on today.

Lapin

The Omega Man wrote: »

I don't support their right to protest anywhere in public. People like that don't deserve a place to protest in modern civilised society.

This isn't an opinion piece, it's acting like a homophobic bigot or bully. Trying to lessen the rights of a minority group in our country. What's it to them how other people live their lives, it's none of their business so they have no right to protest against it.

I'd tell them to get off the street and my reasons why. I'd hope others would follow suit.

Thats it.

Fight intolerance with intolerance. That'll do it alrite.

I was in the concourse for that standoff today and left just after the mock marriage. I'd seen enough.

I utterly despise with every fibre of my being everything the Burke family stand for. I detest the message they aim to spread. And I consider them and their followers to be complete and utter fools and bufoons.

But as much and all as I disagree with them, I will always defend and respect anyone's right to be a complete and utter fool and bufoon.

Maybe they are homophobic. I couldn't really give a toss. I'm not gay so I'm not going to get offended on behalf of those who are. And I suggest anyone who is offended by the Burke's is too thin skinned for their own good. Retaliating and fighting back is exactly what they want us to do. Better off ignoring them altogether.

As I said, I don't agree with the Burkes. But I fully endorse their right to act like berks.

Let them have their say. It doesn't mean we have to listen to them.

saidinmilamber wrote: »

---

All in all, this was an incredible display of democracy by the counter-protesters. The Burkes could very easily have become martyrs for their homophobic cause, but were instead met with a blend of cheesiness, lighthearted eyerolling, open minded disagreement, and a group of strong and intelligent debaters. I've been involved in gay rights protesting in Ireland for 10 years, and this was just an incredible experience. My faith in humanity is massively restored.

I agree with all this but the goodwill and dignity with which the SOS and others opposed the Burkes today was nearly jepordised by a few morons at the rear of the crowd throwing banana skins and other objects at the family.

This is uncalled for and only serves to generate the type of martyrdom and publicity the Burkes and every other Christain cause so desperately craves.

Timmyctc

Lapin wrote: »

Thats it.

Fight intolerance with intolerance. That'll do it alrite.

I was in the concourse for that standoff today and left just after the mock marriage. I'd seen enough.

I utterly despise with every fibre of my being everything the Burke family stand for. I detest the message they aim to spread. And I consider them and their followers to be complete and utter fools and bufoons.

But as much and all as I disagree with them, I will always defend and respect anyone's right to be a complete and utter fool and bufoon.

Maybe they are homophobic. I couldn't really give a toss. I'm not gay so I'm not going to get offended on behalf of those who are. And I suggest anyone who is offended by the Burke's is too thin skinned for their own good. Retaliating and fighting back is exactly what they want us to do. Better off ignoring them altogether.

As I said, I don't agree with the Burkes. But I fully endorse their right to act like berks.

Let them have their say. It doesn't mean we have to listen to them.





I agree with all this but the goodwill and dignity with which the SOS and others opposed the Burkes today was nearly jepordised by a few morons at the rear of the crowd throwing banana skins and other objects at the family.

This is uncalled for and only serves to generate the type of martyrdom and publicity the Burkes and every other Christain cause so desperately craves.

Drop your holier than thou attitude. The Burkes were no less than insulting every gay student in the college directly. Free speech is all well and good but outright lies and insults should never be defended. Pathetic is this attitude that we should entertain people who are 100% without a shadow of an ounce of a doubt, in the wrong. What they were trying to pedal today were lies and slander.

Bertser

Not an NUIG student, but please vote against that guy running for Equality Officer (absolutely bizarre he is running for this) in your droves, he will be making sure to drain every last vote out of his society.

IsThisIt???

Crazy day. Happy with how our student population acted for the most part. I think the fact that the guards also removed posters says a lot but the sheer volume of students who turned out to show support for equality is most impressive.

I presume the su is only having this referenfum to prove a point and raise awareness? Not like they wouldn't have taken this stance before?