Drive thru coffee

Sonic2

Why is there no drive thru coffee establishments in Dublin?

I would really find it handy... thoughts?

Pawwed Rig

I would imagine they would not get planning for it unless they could provide adequate space for cars to queue. Queuing on the public road for coffee during rush hour would cause traffic chaos.

racso1975

How much easier or quicker would it be compared to running in a grabbing one. The set up cost versus the increased revenue stream would just not add up.

Sonic2

some mornings its cold and im late for work.. i just need a coffee, i really dislike the effort and quality of petrol station coffee..

maybe its a planning thing as they are all over america.. would it really be that not worthwhile.. must not be as there are none.

Pawwed Rig

It is a planning thing on a massive scale. (some) American cities are designed around the motor car and all the planning is focused on getting people from A to B in the car. They have lots of land over there and wide open spaces which along with being the wealthiest country on Earth allows them to use land in an inefficient manner. Dublin on the other hand predates the motor car. Planning focus has been anti car and space is at a premium in the city centre therefore we do not have the space for drive through coffee, ATMs etc etc. The few exceptions seem to be fast food places which use non public roads for queuing during peak times.

Sonic2

yeah id say the massive investment and planning would be the problem..

am i on my own in thinking there is a market for this service though?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I can't see how it takes any length of time to pop in somewhere for a coffee as opposed to sitting in the car waiting for it. Then again I would either allow time to buy a coffee or just do without if I was running so late.

uck51js9zml2yt

McDonalds

dudara

Moved to the Dublin City forum - apologies mods, please move if this is best suited somewhere else.

dudara

emeldc

Sonic2 wrote: »

some mornings its cold and im late for work.. i just need a coffee, i really dislike the effort and quality of petrol station coffee..

maybe its a planning thing as they are all over america.. would it really be that not worthwhile.. must not be as there are none.

Would you not just make your own coffee and bring it with you in one of those mugs with a lid on, or would that mean you would have to get out of bed a whole three minutes earlier

schemingbohemia

Sonic2 wrote: »

yeah id say the massive investment and planning would be the problem..

am i on my own in thinking there is a market for this service though?

Yes.

Gloomtastic!

All the McD's/BK/KFC drive-ins sell coffee!

RebelButtMunch

Plus the mcd coffee is nice

Sonic2

the point i was trying to make is the coffee is not great out of garages/mcds etc..

i know i would stop at lets say a drive thru insomnia etc especially if i was late and knew id be in traffic..

like everything would have to be location dependent.. surprised not more agree

xabi

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Plus the mcd coffee is nice

And cheap.

Miguel_Sanchez

Sonic2 wrote: »

the point i was trying to make is the coffee is not great out of garages/mcds etc..

The coffee from the McCafes is surprisingly quite decent.

alexlyons

Sonic2 wrote: »

the point i was trying to make is the coffee is not great out of garages/mcds etc..

i know i would stop at lets say a drive thru insomnia etc especially if i was late and knew id be in traffic..

like everything would have to be location dependent.. surprised not more agree

I agree it would be handy, yes. However would it be a viable business in Ireland, no.

This works, as do a lot of other business ideas, in the states as has been said before due to the amount of land they have. Land is cheap over there so to have a donut and coffee shop that takes up a 10-20000 square feet is easy as your overheads in terms of rent etc wouldn't be to high.
There's no way of having a coffee shop with that amount of land (which would be required for queuing etc) anywhere in Dublin (including suburbs) and making it a viable business unless your charging €10 for a coffee...

arybvtcw0eolkf

Miguel_Sanchez wrote: »

The coffee from the McCafes is surprisingly quite decent.

Snobs 'tend to overlook McD's coffee.. One of my first choices for a coffee.

Miguel_Sanchez

Shane Gifted Rain wrote: »

Snobs 'tend to overlook McD's coffee.. One of my first choices for a coffee.

I know. I feel like I'm letting down the coffee snob side!

Aard

Many people have mentioned "planning" as a reason. I wonder what they mean by that term, because as far as I can see there would be no planning impediment to building a drive thru cafe. Just look at McDonald's...

I'd say it's a market thing tbh. We don't have coffee chain penetration as much as in the US, so it would be seen as a risky bet by any of the big chains. In addition, it seems as though most new cafes are opening up in urban areas with little space. Suburban cafes with lots of land around them just aren't the norm here.

Sonic2

im sure it could work in certain spots.. just not as local as id like

building a secure structure buying land etc now i think maybe its not such a great idea!

hfallada

Irish Times got a coffee expert to review all coffee for sale in Dublin City and Im pretty sure McDonalds was the best. I think McDonalds coffee is too hot and I can barely drink it for the first 30 mins. But it is constant and I have never had a ****ty McDonalds coffee. I have had my fair share of coffees so undrinkable from Starbucks and Insonmina that I have asked for them to remake it.

McDonalds is destroying Starbucks in the US.

coolisin

Mc d's coffee is alot nicer then insomnia/starbucks and I would be a coffee snob.
You want drive thru coffee there is your answer.
Id say the start up costs on building a drive thru anything is huge.

dudara

McD's coffee is pretty decent, especially for the money.

The big problem with this in a city centre would be managing the traffic queues. I can't see it happening in the city centre. It's feasible in further out locations (like McD's existing locations) where there is more space. When working in the US, I'll often try to stop for a coffee at a Starbucks drive-through in the morning, and the queues can be mental at times.

Bandara

The reason there is no drivethru is simply that you could not sell enough coffee to stay in business

AndonHandon

Petrol station coffee is a joke and should not cost more than 20cent.

Bandara

AndonHandon wrote: »

Petrol station coffee is a joke and should not cost more than 20cent.

What about mcdonalds coffee ?

Cienciano

There's no drivethrough anything in the city centre. Suppose you need a bigger premises to have a drivethru and that space would be to valuable to use as a driveway up to a window.
But +1 on mcdonalds coffee, I get it the odd day from the drive thru on the naas road and it's fairly nice.

ProudDUB

I don't get the lack of coffee drive thru's here either. McDonalds and Burger King have them and they can make them work, with parking and space for cars queuing and what not? Why can't the likes of Starbucks do the same? Most Starbucks in the US have a drive thru facility as well as a regular walk in cafe and, they work just fine.

Not everyone wants to sit for hours over a cup of coffee, or use the free wifi, or enjoy the "experience" in comfy sofas or whatever. They just want to get their shot of java juice and get the heck outa there. Being able to do it from the comfort of your car is sooooooo much easier. You don't have to find a parking space, gather up all your stuff, unbuckle the kids, trek in the rain to a premises, stand in a queue for years and then carry all your stuff back out to your car. Surely, having a drive thru to facilitate those people would be good for business?

John_Rambo

If you managed to assure planners you have enough space leased or bought to accommodate large queues of cars without affecting the normal traffic (nobody queuing/blocking on road to get in) it might be doable. However your customers will have to be happy to pay over €10 per coffee to cover that sort of city rent, the convertion and initial layout on building, city rates, staff etc...

Out of interest, what cities have these in the states?

ProudDUB

John_Rambo wrote: »

If you managed to assure planners you have enough space leased or bought to accommodate large queues of cars without affecting the normal traffic (nobody queuing/blocking on road to get in) it might be doable. However your customers will have to be happy to pay over €10 per coffee to cover that sort of city rent, the convertion and initial layout on building, city rates, staff etc...

Out of interest, what cities have these in the states?

Disagree. McDonalds don't charge anymore for a drive thru Big Mac, than if you walked in and bought one at the counter. Why shouldn't Starbucks be able to do that too? Nor do they have to charge exorbitant rates for their products, just because they have a drive thru. I know that Starbucks coffee drinks are not cheap, but Dunkin Donuts operate drive thrus in their US outlets too. Their food and drink items are a lot cheaper than Starbucks ones are, yet they are still a very, very profitable company.

I used to live in the US and every single city I lived in or visited has a multitude of drive thrus. You don't find them in city centre locations where the shops and restaurants would be in a row, with little access for cars, but there are loads of them out in the suburbs, where there is more space. I don't really see how having a drive thru would lead to excessively higher rates, or rents, or staff costs, or conversion costs. The increased business from the drive thru traffic would pay for them.

A coffee drive thru wouldn't even need the extra parking spaces that the likes of McDonalds have...you know, the parking bays that they make you wait in if there is a delay in making your order and, they don't want you holding up the queue. The likes of Starbucks don't need that extra space, as making coffee drinks is a lot less complicated and can be done quicker, than serving food.

John_Rambo

ProudDUB wrote: »

I used to live in the US and every single city I lived in or visited has a multitude of drive thrus. You don't find them in city centre

Ok... So the're in the suburbs? Right sorry, your saying city, I thought you meant the actual city.. My bad.

That's a game changer, but to answer your question, I'd say it's less likely to work in Dublin's burbs as we are getting a bit more European and people are getting less car reliant and beginning to use public transport and bikes. I'd also lean towards research that city dwellers are that bit less lazy!

ProudDUB

John_Rambo wrote: »

Ok... So the're in the suburbs? Right sorry, your saying city, I thought you meant the actual city.. My bad.

That's a game changer, but to answer your question, I'd say it's less likely to work in Dublin's burbs as we are getting a bit more European and people are getting less car reliant and beginning to use public transport and bikes. I'd also lean towards research that city dwellers are that bit less lazy!

The poster started a thread asking why there are no drive thru coffee establishments in Dublin. He did not say Dublin City Centre specifically, so I don't know why we can't discuss the city in its entirety.

There is more to Dublin City than just Grafton St and O'Connell St. People who live in Clontarf, Drumcondra, Portobello, Ballsbridge etc etc live in Dublin City too, don't they? There are some drive thrus in some US cities. There just wouldn't be as many of them in the heart of the city centres, as there would be suburbs, as space would be at a premium. They would start to pop up more when you get to within a few miles of the city centre, in the neighbourhoods that would be similar to Fairview, Clontarf, Phibsboro, Ballsbridge etc etc here. Once you get out a bit further out, they are very, very common, but they would all still be within the official city limits designation.

I disagree that we are getting so Europeanized that we don't want to import an American custom of drive thrus. Fast food restaurants with drive thrus here are thriving. There is room for both imo. I am no transportation expert, but I do know that Dublin Bus routes and schedules and DART times tables are being slashed all the time due to cutbacks. Dublin Bus/IE blame falling passenger numbers on the cutbacks. There will always be a sizeable population of people in cars in Dublin, who would use a car drive through facility if it is there imo.

There are also a lot of businesses in the US that operate a drive thru facility that are not always food or drink related. Banks have them. Post offices often have them. Dry cleaners have them. (My favourites are the drive thru liquor stores in New Orleans.:P ) I don't see why they wouldn't thrive here too. People like convenience, no matter where they live imo.

spurious

There used to be a drive through bank in Raheny - many moons ago when I was a child. It never really took off, but it might now.

alexlyons

spurious wrote: »

There used to be a drive through bank in Raheny - many moons ago when I was a child. It never really took off, but it might now.

likewise in cornelscourt, AIB had drive thru ATM's. Gone now though, they build a pretty big centre there. I think with the boom land turned far more valuable than the return a drive thru anything could provide due to the space required for roads/queuing etc

tempura

Another leap towards the americanised unhealthy way of life, no thanks.

The states is full of Drive through everything, coffee, food, donuts, banks, dry cleaners, dvd rental, an endless list. I'm surprised anyone even talks to anyone anymore.

I have been given many a funny look , from drivers, while " walking " to a local store in the States. Nobody walks, cars all the way, its sad . I would hate to see that happen here.

I'm all against the drive through anything.

alexlyons

tempura wrote: »

The states is full of Drive through everything, coffee, food, donuts, banks, dry cleaners, dvd rental, an endless list. I'm surprised anyone even talks to anyone anymore.

I have been given many a funny look , from drivers, while " walking " to a local store in the States. Nobody walks, cars all the way, its sad . I would hate to see that happen here.

Well see its full of drive throughs for two reasons.
First, the city's are pretty new and all focused around the car, more so in the suburbs than down town.
Secondly, land is so cheap, which facilitated low rise urban sprawl including drive thru's.

Neither of these things is true for Ireland so I I can't see it happening here.

I was in San Francisco last summer and walked everywhere, along with most other city residents. However I was downtown, or within the main city on the waterfront where space is at a premium so its not as conducive to cars, although its much more conducive to them than any irish city!

However if one was to start walking places in the more suburban areas, I could imagine looks being given, mainly due to the shear distance needed to get anywhere because it has sprawled so much.
I've nothing against long walks, I actually enjoy them, but as its not the norm which is understandable due to the distance, looks are inevitable and would happen in the same situation in any country.

jerrymc

Sonic2 wrote: »

Why is there no drive thru coffee establishments in Dublin?

I would really find it handy... thoughts?

Yes I would agree, I would love to purchase a delicious take away coffee to go from my car on my busy morning commute.
Although all the info that followed on planning regulations, the price of land, Dublin city boundaries is very interesting I think some people have moved away from the original question of the thread.

I may have a solution which I am considering as a future business venture therefore it would be good to know would commuters spend a reasonable amount of money on a quality take away coffee which they can conveniently purchase from their car on their morning commute?

ProudDUB

tempura wrote: »

Another leap towards the americanised unhealthy way of life, no thanks.

The states is full of Drive through everything, coffee, food, donuts, banks, dry cleaners, dvd rental, an endless list. I'm surprised anyone even talks to anyone anymore.

I have been given many a funny look , from drivers, while " walking " to a local store in the States. Nobody walks, cars all the way, its sad . I would hate to see that happen here.

I'm all against the drive through anything.

If you feel that strongly about it, fair enough, but I don't think that the average person does. If they did, why are drive thru's in Irish fast food restaurants so common and so popular?

jerrymc wrote: »

I may have a solution which I am considering as a future business venture therefore it would be good to know would commuters spend a reasonable amount of money on a quality take away coffee which they can conveniently purchase from their car on their morning commute?

Every single morning? No. When you do the sums and add it up by the week and the month, you are talking the guts of spending a thousand euros a year on your morning pick me up. I used the random amount of 4 quid every morning, 5 days a week. That is 80 quid a month, which is 960 euros over 12 months. It would be more if you are buying muffins and what not too. It might not seem so much on a once off basis, but when you add it all up, over the course of a year, it's a pretty big chunk of change.

I'd rather spend that kind of money on a holiday & just make the daily commute coffee at my house. But if I have an exceptionally early start one morning, or I have an usually long drive ahead of me and I want to stay alert, then yes, I'd pony up the bucks for a properly brewed espresso.

John_Rambo

ProudDUB wrote: »

If you feel that strongly about it, fair enough

Indeed if you feel that strongly about it you could get a business loan and set one up or talk to the relevant people about a franchise. Plenty of people have taken American models and made millions from burger joints to bowling halls.

Are any of the in Ireland drive thru places you're talking about 100% drive thru or are they fast food restaurants with a drive thru facility?

WHIP IT!

ProudDUB wrote: »

If you feel that strongly about it, fair enough, but I don't think that the average person does. If they did, why are drive thru's in Irish fast food restaurants so common and so popular?



Every single morning? No. When you do the sums and add it up by the week and the month, you are talking the guts of spending a thousand euros a year on your morning pick me up. I used the random amount of 4 quid every morning, 5 days a week. That is 80 quid a month, which is 960 euros over 12 months. It would be more if you are buying muffins and what not too. It might not seem so much on a once off basis, but when you add it all up, over the course of a year, it's a pretty big chunk of change.

I'd rather spend that kind of money on a holiday & just make the daily commute coffee at my house. But if I have an exceptionally early start one morning, or I have an usually long drive ahead of me and I want to stay alert, then yes, I'd pony up the bucks for a properly brewed espresso.

Um, where charges €4 for a takeaway coffee??

Tabnabs

ProudDUB wrote: »

. If they did, why are drive thru's in Irish fast food restaurants so common and so popular?

I think this is the key to the success of the model, are drive thru's really that popular in Ireland? Can anyone put an actual figure on the total amount for example? That's the product you're selling, the drive thru model, be it burgers or espresso. If McD's coffee is so good, are people who pass a drive thru stopping to buy this product specifically?

So see plenty of people commuting with those aluminium coffee cups in their cars, would they be tempted to stop and buy a drive thru coffee?

IS that all you're selling, coffee? Or what else would a coffee buyer be interested in purchasing in addition?

Starbucks, arguably the biggest worldwide brand in coffee, they are experimenting in the UK market with a drive thru in two locations. I'd say you'd need to watch them for any development in Ireland and perhaps piggy back on their marketing before you do a solo run by an unknown Irish business.


Starbucks Cardiff.

If you're clever, it can be done relatively easily
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2212341/The-drive-drive-away-Starbucks-opens-Ikea-like-flat-packed-store-unloaded-lorry.html

Speedsie

spurious wrote: »

There used to be a drive through bank in Raheny - many moons ago when I was a child. It never really took off, but it might now.

There was also a 'Drive In' aspect to AIB on Upper Baggot Street. Opened in, I think, the 70s, closed in the late 80s as I recall. Never used it myself, but I remember it in operation.

Gran Hermano

Dutch Bros Coffee have over 200 in the USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Bros._Coffee

CJhaughey

Ballincollig in Cork has a drive thru coffee shack.
I am amazed that Dublin doesn't have at least one permanent one.

my friend

Bandara wrote: »

The reason there is no drivethru is simply that you could not sell enough coffee to stay in business

Tell that to McDonalds

Caliden

Drive through coffee in Clonskeagh beside Ryans Arbour House.

Tabnabs

Caliden wrote: »

Drive through coffee in Clonskeagh beside Ryans Arbour House.

Clonskeagh? They wish! That's Windy Arbour, Dundrum at a push...

http://www.thruthegreencoffeeco.com/

ProudDUB

Fair play to them. Wish I had a drive thru place near me. My fav coffee & donut spot has limited parking, so I don't go there that often on the way to work. It would be a different story if they had a drive thru.

greenbicycle

some guy has set up a tent on the sandyford road advertising "drive through coffee" he has been there a while now, I always pass by as he is just setting up early in the morning so never witness how many customers he gets. fair play to him!