Sulky race. Horse driven to death

Grab All Association

http://www.tipperarystar.ie/news/local-news/animal-cruelty-as-sulky-horse-driven-to-death-1-5854324

Pictured (right) with this story is the shocking and sickening scene witnessed by passers-by on the old main Dublin road between Littleton and Horse and Jockey on Sunday evening.

The abandoned animal who was literally driven to it’s death on the roadway following a sulky race died at the scene after it’s rider had fled, leaving the sulky car still attached.

The incident has sparked outrage in the local community and there have been calls to ban the use of sulky cars altogether, following what has been described as one of the worst cases witnessed in recent times.

The animal was driven so hard during the race that it collapsed and died. The alarm was raised by motorists who were passing by and Gardai attended the scene before the animal was removed from the roadside.

Sulky cars are not illegal. However, sulky racing on public roadways is illegal and this latest incident has resulted in further calls for regulation of a pastime which is often associated with members of the travelling community, although there is no suggestion at this stage that travellers were involved in this incident.

Fianna Fail Councillor John Hogan had raised the issue of sulky racing recently and had encouraged the local authority to provide a facility for such activities, so as to allow for regulation. The pastime, he said, is one of the oldest in the world and he offered the view that such activities could have tourist potential were they to be properly run and regulated.

The events of Sunday evening bring Cllr Hogan’s comments into sharp focus and may result in them being taken on board at official level.

This week Cllr David Doran said that he was “totally sickened” when he saw the pictures of a poor defenceless animal literally driven into the ground. “Whoever was responsible for this terrible act is probably beyond redemption but I would appeal to anyone who may have witnessed what happened to contact the Gardai. There should be no tolerance for this indifferent cruelty in society and I am appealing to the powers that be to ban this sulky racing altogether. In my opinion allowing it to take place on these roads should never be allowed or tolerated,” he said.

Gardai continue to investigate the incident and are appealing to people to come forward with information. Contact them on 0504 25100.

tightropetom

If this happened in the Grand National, nobody would say a word.

El Guapo!

tightropetom wrote: »

If this happened in the Grand National, nobody would say a word.

That's because you can't compare the two.

razorblunt

Culture. Tis. Their.

Rearrange as necessary.

FearDark

Ah but it's grand because you can't criticise those involved as it's not PC, and they'll get away with it too because nobody will have seen anything as usual :rolleyes:

darkpagandeath

tightropetom wrote: »

If this happened in the Grand National, nobody would say a word.

They run horses on roads pulling carts there now ?

Outkast_IRE

tightropetom wrote: »

If this happened in the Grand National, nobody would say a word.

There is no comparison, a horse in the grand national has the best of care coming up to and during races, they are worth too much money to be treated any other way, and there are vets on constant standby.

Whereas this is a piece of scum pushing an animal to its limit and then running away when things go sour.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

El Guapo! wrote: »

That's because you can't compare the two.

you can't compare two horse racing passtimes?

MagicFairyDust

tightropetom wrote: »

If this happened in the Grand National, nobody would say a word.

Yeah because the Grand National can be compared to Knackers racing their horses illegally along public roads.

As to the councillor who suggested that the tax payer provide a facility for the inbred scum "go **** yourself".

Femme_Fatale

Meh, people keep saying you can't criticise traveller culture; you can. Just keep the language civil; it's not difficult.

FearDark

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Meh, people keep saying you can't criticise traveller culture; you can. Just keep the language civil; it's not difficult.

You can. You just can't here. I have the infractions to prove it.

El Guapo!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

you can't compare two horse racing passtimes?

They are worlds apart. I'm not a big fan of horse racing either but the horses in professional racing are cared for much better than those involved in sulky racing. I'm no expert, but it doesn't take a genius to see the difference between the two.

jank

Savages. I wonder will the person who did this be brought in from of the law to answer for his/her crimes? I very much doubt it. If this is their culture than it should be pointed out that their 'culture' is barbaric.

Nixer Jim

razorblunt wrote: »

Culture. Tis. Their.

Rearrange as necessary.

Will they burn the road now too !

jank

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

you can't compare two horse racing passtimes?

That is like comparing bare knuckle boxing or some random brawl on the street to a flight in a ring/cage where there are procedures, policies and medical staff on hand to assist never mind that those involved have to adhere to the laws governed by the sporting bodies and local/national laws as well.

catallus

"Fianna Fail Councillor John Hogan had raised the issue of sulky racing recently and had encouraged the local authority to provide a facility for such activities, so as to allow for regulation. The pastime, he said, is one of the oldest in the world and he offered the view that such activities could have tourist potential were they to be properly run and regulated."

There is some merit to this idea, is there not?

Dublin_Mom

I cannot read the details of this as it would quite honestly break my heart. I cannot understand
how anyone can be cruel to a helpless animal, and I sincerely hope there is a special place in hell for these scumbags.

PLEASE if anyone has any spare money at all, the DSPCA are looking for online donations to help deal with the crisis of abandoned horses in the city. Logon to the website at dspca.ie I am really broke this month but will find money somewhere to donate.

Outkast_IRE

catallus wrote: »

"Fianna Fail Councillor John Hogan had raised the issue of sulky racing recently and had encouraged the local authority to provide a facility for such activities, so as to allow for regulation. The pastime, he said, is one of the oldest in the world and he offered the view that such activities could have tourist potential were they to be properly run and regulated."

There is some merit to this idea, is there not?

Personally I think not, if we were to ban them from the road entirely then I would see some merit, but we all know such a ban wouldn't be enforced anyway and we would have the usual crowd saying its their "tradition" to be on the road in them.

I don't think they would use such a venue unless there was something in it for them, they aren't going to travel large distances to use it.

Professey Chin

catallus wrote: »

"Fianna Fail Councillor John Hogan had raised the issue of sulky racing recently and had encouraged the local authority to provide a facility for such activities, so as to allow for regulation. The pastime, he said, is one of the oldest in the world and he offered the view that such activities could have tourist potential were they to be properly run and regulated."

There is some merit to this idea, is there not?

Said it before and ill say it again. Its nothing but pandering.
They dont have the facilities to look after horses (which is actually set out by law which seems to be ignored in these cases) but politicians are looking to bend over for them. Cowards. Just ban it.

Eight Ball

Scumbags plain and simple. Screw their "culture"

catallus

Maybe I'm naive, but I'd say if they were given the benefit of the doubt and were actually provided with a basic track where they could run their horses in a field somewhere near where they live it might reduce illegal activity, (well, the running of sulkies, anyway.)

The idea of pandering is all very well, but a solution needs to be found and if a facility were to be provided that might even bring in tourist revenue then it might just be a way forward. Leaps and bounds have been made in the last twenty years for example by developing the greyhound racing industry.

Outkast_IRE

catallus wrote: »

Maybe I'm naive, but I'd say if they were given the benefit of the doubt and were actually provided with a basic track where they could run their horses in a field somewhere near where they live it might reduce illegal activity, (well, the running of sulkies, anyway.)

The idea of pandering is all very well, but a solution needs to be found and if a facility were to be provided that might even bring in tourist revenue then it might just be a way forward. Leaps and bounds have been made in the last twenty years for example by developing the greyhound racing industry.

But they live all over how many facilities would need to be built to pander to a minority who contribute nothing to society as it is. greyhound racing is so successful because they draw in families of all ages as well as corporate parties etc. I don't see the appeal for families to bring their kids to see travellers with badly treated horses racing, and I cant see corporate clients jumping at the chance either.

catallus

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

But they live all over how many facilities would need to be built to pander to a minority who contribute nothing to society as it is. greyhound racing is so successful because they draw in families of all ages as well as corporate parties etc. I don't see the appeal for families to bring their kids to see travellers with badly treated horses racing, and I cant see corporate clients jumping at the chance either.

That was very much the consensus back in the day when money was being thrown at greyhound racing; a stimulus to legitimise the practice of racing horses is necessary; unless we are happy enough for it to be an illegitimate "pastime" which inevitably attracts those who don't give a second thought to the welfare of the animals being used.

4th horsemen

Scumbags don't deserve any money spending on them so that they can run their horses on facilities paid by tax payers money while
They will still treat their animals like sh.t anyway. They treat humans like sh.t so what hope do the animals have.
Strict laws need to be put in place for animal cruelty and no one should be above the law, but unfortunately in this country some people are.

Hope that fella get's ran into the ground himself on a road someday

foggy_lad

catallus wrote: »

"Fianna Fail Councillor John Hogan had raised the issue of sulky racing recently and had encouraged the local authority to provide a facility for such activities, so as to allow for regulation. The pastime, he said, is one of the oldest in the world and he offered the view that such activities could have tourist potential were they to be properly run and regulated."

There is some merit to this idea, is there not?

All the big bets are on the road races!

catallus wrote: »

Maybe I'm naive, but I'd say if they were given the benefit of the doubt and were actually provided with a basic track where they could run their horses in a field somewhere near where they live it might reduce illegal activity, (well, the running of sulkies, anyway.)

The idea of pandering is all very well, but a solution needs to be found and if a facility were to be provided that might even bring in tourist revenue then it might just be a way forward. Leaps and bounds have been made in the last twenty years for example by developing the greyhound racing industry.

"we don't get on with that family sowe can't put our horse in the same field as theirs."

"they have a field for their horse, so you must give us one for our horse too or you are discriminating."

There is no guarantee that providing free land to these people that own these poor unfortunate animals would stop them racing their animals on the roads, nor would it stop other illegal behaviour.

michael999999

catallus wrote: »

"Fianna Fail Councillor John Hogan had raised the issue of sulky racing recently and had encouraged the local authority to provide a facility for such activities, so as to allow for regulation. The pastime, he said, is one of the oldest in the world and he offered the view that such activities could have tourist potential were they to be properly run and regulated."

There is some merit to this idea, is there not?

Fianna fails oldest pastime is taking bags of cash. Doesn't mean the taxpayer should have to fund it!

Agricola

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is no guarantee that providing free land to these people that own these poor unfortunate animals would stop them racing their animals on the roads, nor would it stop other illegal behaviour.

Exactly. Rules and regulations are to these people what krytonite is to Superman. The notion that road racing would stop if a safe, regulated alternative was provided is laughable. Invariably, if there is an unsafe, half arsed and reckless method of doing something, that is the one most in tune with their culture and the one they will stick to.

Me?

El Guapo! wrote: »

That's because you can't compare the two.

You could but it would be idiotic to try.

catallus

Of course there are no guarantees.

But a community focused initiative which takes the best of what sulky-racing entails, (and I believe there is not a little skill involved in the pursuit) which in itself would help normalise its practice while dis-incentivising the mis-treatment of horses, could be a good thing.

The other option is to have a tome-ful of laws against it with no punishment and hence the whole sorry escapade goes on the way it is.

Frosty McSnowballs

I genuinely wish the worst on whoever caused this.

C.K Dexter Haven

razorblunt wrote: »

Culture. Tis. Their.

Rearrange as necessary.

Cruelties Hurt It

Sky King

Same craic in Kilkenny a few months ago

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/disturbing-images-highlight-our-dark-legacy-of-horse-abuse-1-4918376

I don't agree with the use of the word 'our' in the title though. I can't ever remember abusing horses.

risteard7

So their culture includes, animal cruelty on a daily basis, destroying pubs when they get in causing thousands in damage, then sue the pub owner for discrimination. pull up in caravans in public places or on other people's property when they feel like it.

They can light fires and burn rubbish as they please. if I do it the council would be at my door. They are always moaning about equality and discrimination? start behaving like normal citizens and you might get it then. I don't know but, my brother is getting married later in the year and I don't have any plans to fight him on the night or the bride's father.

I'm sick of the travelling community they contribute absolutely nothing to society.

Stavros Murphy

I'm not reading any of this as I just know it'll pee me off and the fact it pees me or anyone else off will make SFA difference.

woodoo

I bet they left the horse for someone else to pick up afterwards. No doubt its the taxpayer that paid for its disposal too. The same taxpayer that pays welfare for the wasters that raced them. 85% of travellers are unemployed. Their culture is obviously not compatible with a modern western society. Ban this type of racing.

The Th!ng

risteard7 wrote: »

So their culture includes, animal cruelty on a daily basis, destroying pubs when they get in causing thousands in damage, then sue the pub owner for discrimination. pull up in caravans in public places or on other people's property when they feel like it.

They can light fires and burn rubbish as they please. if I do it the council would be at my door. They are always moaning about equality and discrimination? start behaving like normal citizens and you might get it then. I don't know but, my brother is getting married later in the year and I don't have any plans to fight him on the night or the bride's father.

I'm sick of the travelling community they contribute absolutely nothing to society.

They also get their rubbish collected free of charge from the halting sites in my locality.

biko

What kind of travellers do this to their own horses?
And not just this one, there's been more cases with horses killed or abused like in Wicklow.
Horses have been central to traveller culture for ages.

bobwilliams

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

you can't compare two horse racing passtimes?

exactly and those who give out about horse racing know feck all about it

for eg, a jockey falls off and what does the horse do?continues to run around with his/her mates jumping fences with ears pricked loving life

4th horsemen

biko wrote: »

What kind of travellers do this to their own horses?
And not just this one, there's been more cases with horses killed or abused like in Wicklow.
Horses have been central to traveller culture for ages.

All kinds!!

duinegorm

Their culture me hole! There was a tiny percentage of them using sulkys until recent years. Over in the UK they started to become popular due to gambling and the whole thing grew and in turn started up over here in Ireland. It has feck all to do with culture and everything to do with them having another means of illegal gambling. How is it that my fathers generation tell me that there was no talk of bare knuckle boxing, sulky racing or any other pastimes that caused some problems for other people. Nothing to do with culture and everything to do with wanting to get away with whatever they like. They need to be stood up to properly like any other criminal!

upwardsonwards

The Travellers are what they are and while most of us my struggle to understand the mindset of their culture I think it is futile to try and suppress it.

These races if they have to happen should be put onto quite roads in areas like Howth and Foxrock.

bobwilliams

this thread is turning nasty,mods handing out infractions for very accurate statements(imo),i'm not getting involved in slagging as I don't think travellers are all the same.
Surely it's not too much though to expect ALL people living in this country to abide by the laws and acts of the land regardless of their backround.

anncoates

upwardsonwards wrote: »

These races if they have to happen should be put onto quite roads in areas like Howth and Foxrock.

Also open halting sites there.

And then witness the most speedy Volte Face in liberal hand wringing attitudes in history. .

risteard7

bobwilliams wrote: »

this thread is turning nasty,mods handing out infractions for very accurate statements(imo),i'm not getting involved in slagging as I don't think travellers are all the same.
Surely it's not too much though to expect ALL people living in this country to abide by the laws and acts of the land regardless of their backround.

I believe my post was accurate and my honest opinion. I have worked in bars and live close to a halting site and have seen their behaviour first hand down through the years.

There are a few decent travellers don't get me wrong, but what kind of people meet up in isolated areas to fight other families!? it's mad stuff altogether and that is not a generalisation.

Behave in a civilised manner and you will be treated like a civilised citizen. And that goes for everybody not just travellers.

questionmark?

How much does one of these sulkies cost? Must be cheap as the majority of the people who own them are on the dole!?

hatrickpatrick

Godwinning myself here, but any time someone refers to Travellers using a definite article (The Travellers) it always sounds disturbingly like how some people use the expression "The Jews". :rolleyes:

feartuath

Where is the spokesperson from Pavey Point raving on about their culture now

If this happened to any of the fox hunting community their would be uproar from the usual suspects but they will remain quiet on this issue .

Femme_Fatale

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Godwinning myself here, but any time someone refers to Travellers using a definite article (The Travellers) it always sounds disturbingly like how some people use the expression "The Jews". :rolleyes:

Er... yeh... that's really the thing to get bothered and rolleyed about.

Uaru

We should just ban horses completely. They are the cause of too much grief in all walks of life.

catallus

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Godwinning myself here, but any time someone refers to Travellers using a definite article (The Travellers) it always sounds disturbingly like how some people use the expression "The Jews". :rolleyes:

Technically, you didn't "Godwin" yourself. It is just a meme started by neo-nazis to stop people negatively referencing the third reich, anyway.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

tightropetom wrote: »

If this happened in the Grand National, nobody would say a word.

If someone did this in any professional stable, I guarantee you they would.