None of my business or duty to warn?

LegacyUser

Following a few drinks, a friend admitted that she is trying for a baby with her new boyfriend who believes she is on birth control.

She doesn’t see anything wrong with this, and believes he will ‘man up’ and accept it when he learns she is pregnant.

I am probably closer to her boyfriend than I am to her. He is my little brother’s best friend, I’ve known him since he was a baby and he spends a lot of time around my home. He’s only 25 [behaves like he’s 18] and in no way interested in having kids.

She is 34 and feels this is her last chance. She always wanted a large family and has had her fertility tested earlier this year.
She minds newborn babies for a living, adores kids and previously worked in a fertility clinic for years. She has become obsessed with her ticking body clock recently.

We discussed it calmly that night and while the other girls present saw nothing wrong with her plans, I told her I felt it was wrong, that maybe she could look into a sperm donor if SHE wants a baby as I know that he doesn’t. I’ve often overheard him pass comment on other young men who are ‘trapped’, their lives ‘ruined’ by some ‘slut’.

She told me she thinks it’s totally wrong to bring a child into the world as a lone parent, that children need two parents present. She also disagrees with having a baby by someone you don’t know. And she couldn’t possibly afford to go down that route as she has a huge mortgage and is struggling to make payments.

He is from a very old fashioned well off background and I know his parents will disown him if he doesn’t make an effort to marry her if she gets pregnant. They’ve always been very vocal about this. She knows this too.

He treats her very poorly. Constantly stands her up to go drinking with the lads, typical young guy stuff, he outright refused to introduce her to his parents and friends because of the age gap and the fact he thought it was casual [told her this] but she went to his home of her own accord and introduced herself to his family and friends.

She has a good heart and has gone above and beyond making effort, never arrives empty handed when visiting, noted his mother’s favourite biscuits and makes sure to always have them with her. She's expressed interest in hobbies of his friends and spent a lot of money on gifts (gig tickets, cinema tickets for the entire group, rounds of drinks).

Previously several of her friends have told her she could do so much better than him, that he and his friends were taking advantage.

They only started seeing each other in the summer and she seems willing to put up with anything.

She’s prepared lovely meals for him, spent the entire day cooking on many occasions only to be stood up, and no word from him until the following day. She’s been dressed up for the cinema and waited and waited but he’s a no show. This is almost every weekend.

She has to drive an hour to his family home if she wants to visit him as he claims to not hear his phone ringing. She does all of the running as it is the only way she gets to see him.

I didn’t previously understand why she was willing to overlook all of these red flags but it seems she is hellbent on getting pregnant. She has assured him she is on birth control.

She thinks he will settle down once she is pregnant and change his ways.

Initially I felt very sorry for her but having thought about it the last few days, I’m now more angry and feeling bad for him. He is planning to go backpacking next summer with friends, he was very clear and blunt with her that he was not looking for a serious relationship in the early days but she is ignoring all of this and putting her own interests first.

I feel bad for him that he will be financially burdened for at least 18 years.

I remember my brother slagging him when he heard her age to watch himself, she’d be at that age where she’ll want to get pregnant, and he was very clear that he had made sure she knew this was not in his plans.

She has spoken in the past of his family background and their wealth and I have to question if this is a factor, and makes him more appealing than opting for an anonymous sperm donor?

Of course it’s up to him to use a condom also, and from the sounds of it he isn’t.

Half of me feels this is none of my business, it would be psycho for me to approach him and tell him to use a condom! But is it right for me to stand back and watch his life be altered/ruined by someone who is intentionally duping him? If someone did something like this to me, and others knew and didn't warn me, I'd be livid. I'd hate to see this happen to my brother and would never forgive if I found out other people knew and said nothing.

Any advice?

eviltwin

Normally I would be of the "stay out of it" school of thought but in a situation like this I would tell him. Its too big a thing to keep to yourself.

Obviously its for his protection as no one should be duped into having a child against their knowledge but also for hers, he doesn't sound like the kind to stick around ( although I could be wrong ) and for her own sake if she has a child she won't want to be left holding the baby.

I feel sorry for her that she feels her time is running out but that doesn't give her the right to use him as a sperm donor.

I think in your shoes I would tell him even if that meant ruining the friendship with her. I don't think I could forgive myself if she ended up pregnant and I know I could have done something about it.

CaraMay

Do tell him.

She is a nasty piece of work.

Santa Cruz

Well if he is stupid enough not to take responsibility for contraception, uses her when it suits him maybe they deserve each other and prevent two other innocents being pulled in to the scene. Best mind your own business

December2012

Normally I'd also say keep out of it.

But it sounds like both of them are playing each other around and to bring a baby into this will hurt both of them.

So I think you should say "something" but I've no idea what! You could be direct, or be subtle "hey I heard you and x are trying for a baby - wow!".

username123

Normally I'm inclined to think that people should stay out of other peoples relationships.

After all, it is his business to be responsible for contraception if he doesn't want a child. I know it's easy to say 'well he trusts what she has told him' but people trust and cheat each other every day and I have issues with outsiders to relationships appointing themselves the morality police.

In this particular situation, if you must interfere, I would say that you should address it to HER. She has already had a public conversation about her intentions with you and her friends. Tell her that if she doesn't come clean that you will tell him.

You will lose this friendship and possibly ruin her chances of having a child, as she will lose yet more time etc... These are the consequences of interfering.

Personally I would simply tell her what she is doing is wrong but not otherwise interfere because I believe that other peoples relationships are their own business.

freshpopcorn

I normally have the opinion that you should keep your nose out of other people's business.
In this case tough I would recommend telling him because if she does get pregnant this might effect the child in the future.

myshirt

It is up to this chap to play it safe as much as it is hers.

You can't be tapping some lady and ignore the possibility she may get pregnant.
Many women have 'deceived' men, it happens.
This is the nature of life.

I was acquainted with one lady who at that special moment wrapped her legs around me, clung on and shouted 'Be my baby's daddy!'

Needless to say, I only gave her a few more rattles and that was that.

This chap must learn. And not be afraid. A baby does not ruin or hamper anyones life. That's just greed.

Czarcasm

username123 wrote: »

You will lose this friendship and possibly ruin her chances of having a child, as she will lose yet more time etc... These are the consequences of interfering.

The OP isn't ruining her friend's chances of having a child at all, just ruining her chances of possibly having a child with this guy.


Doesn't sound like a bad idea either when not only is the guy completely unprepared for a child. I suspect the OP's friend knows what she's letting herself in for though, says one thing but knows well there's no potential relationship there, but doesn't care because she'll have what she really wants.

Personally I would simply tell her what she is doing is wrong but not otherwise interfere because I believe that other peoples relationships are their own business.

We interfere in people's relationships every day by offering advice here. Often they may not like the advice they hear, but if it causes them to pause and consider their actions any small bit, then that's no bad thing either.


My own advice would be to tell him OP, not just for his sake, or for her sake, but for the sake of any potential child that'd be burdened with that mess between the pair of them.

eviltwin

username123 wrote: »

You will lose this friendship and possibly ruin her chances of having a child, as she will lose yet more time etc... These are the consequences of interfering.

Personally I would simply tell her what she is doing is wrong but not otherwise interfere because I believe that other peoples relationships are their own business.

Do you really think her chance to be a mother outweighs his to have a say in it? I would say something if only for the baby who will be born into this craziness and who won't deserve two people like this for parents.

CaraMay

eviltwin wrote: »

Do you really think her chance to be a mother outweighs his to have a say in it? I would say something if only for the baby who will be born into this craziness and who won't deserve two people like this for parents.

Exactly - you don't want a child born into this unholy mess.

myshirt

CaraMay wrote: »

Exactly - you don't want a child born into this unholy mess.

Sher with that attitude, no children would be born at all.

How many children do you know that were born into this perfect paradigm of excellent circumstances?

If there is to be a child bourne out of this scenario, that child is entitled to a fair shake, come on.

freshpopcorn

myshirt wrote: »

Sher with that attitude, no children would be born at all.

How many children do you know that were born into this perfect paradigm of excellent circumstances?

If there is to be a child bourne out of this scenario, that child is entitled to a fair shake, come on.

Things sometime happen by accident and sometimes children are planned but I don't think it's a good idea to bring a child into the world where the mother lied to her partner about using birth control.

iusedtoknow

better a broken relationship than a child brought into this sort of relationship

I would tell him. As I guy, I would rather know this than feel hoodwinked by this sort of thing.

CaraMay

myshirt wrote: »

Sher with that attitude, no children would be born at all.

How many children do you know that were born into this perfect paradigm of excellent circumstances?
.

Plenty.

myotherself

It is absolutely insane to bring a child into a "relationship" that's as unsecure as that. There's a huge age gap between them, not just physically, but emotionally, by the way you're describing him (25 going on 18) and this is not the best way for your friend to try and make him mature.

The big thing that stands out to me to is the fact that he thinks she's using birth control. There is a huge difference between a couple having sex without a condom and he's thinking "we'll risk it this once/whatever" and a couple who are having sex where he's thinking "she's on the pill".

A child doesn't have to have two parents. But when a woman decides she wants to get pregnant, the father to be deserves to included in that decision. This is not just a baby, this is the rest of her life (and ergo, his) that she is trying to decide. That is completely unfair.

As another poster said, tell her that if she doesn't tell him, you will.

strandroad

Is your brother reasonable? Perhaps your brother could tell him "I heard that X is really desperate for a baby. I hope you're using condoms, because she'll definitely want to keep it if you have an accident".

The Corinthian

whatshouldido wrote: »

Following a few drinks, a friend admitted that she is trying for a baby with her new boyfriend who believes she is on birth control.

She doesn’t see anything wrong with this, and believes he will ‘man up’ and accept it when he learns she is pregnant.

Like eviltwin, I'd would also be of the "stay out of it" school of thought, but this is just a car crash waiting to happen. He's clearly immature and selfish, but at 25 he has a bit more more excuse then her immature and selfish behaviour at 34.

Her plan is naieve in the extreme; he's unlikely to 'man up' or whatever fairy tale she's constructed for herself, should she fall pregnant. It's also more than likely that he'll either figure out or come to suspect that this was her plan all along (she was indiscreet enough to tell you, so how many others do you think already know?). And then it'll get nasty - him resentful at being trapped, her and his refusal to go along with her plan - all with a young child in the middle who has to pay the price for his or her parents' selfishness.

So, tell him.

Of course it’s up to him to use a condom also, and from the sounds of it he isn’t.

It's not unreasonable for him not to do so. He's in a relationship where his partner is administering the contraception (the pill, I presume). So unless you want to suggest that we should all live in a bubble of paranoia, never trusting the people we're in a relationship with, then you can hardly blame him. At least on that score; from your description, you probably could blame him for many other things.

Big Bag of Chips

I think she knows she'll be a single mother, but this way she'll be a single mother from a failed relationship, rather than a single mother from a sperm donor. Which, in her mind, is probably more respectable. And him coming from a few bob won't hurt either!

She's obviously not keeping her "plan" a secret, if she has discussed it so openly with you (knowing you know him well) and her other friends - so I think that makes it a bit easier for you to drop it into conversation, with either him or your brother.

Stavro Mueller

mhge wrote: »

Is your brother reasonable? Perhaps your brother could tell him "I heard that X is really desperate for a baby. I hope you're using condoms, because she'll definitely want to keep it if you have an accident".

This may be the way to go. After all, you're not the only person who heard what she said at the time. Or would one of your other friends know him well enough to have a word?

username123

eviltwin wrote: »

Do you really think her chance to be a mother outweighs his to have a say in it? I would say something if only for the baby who will be born into this craziness and who won't deserve two people like this for parents.

No. I'm just stating a fact. She is 34. Her fertility is on the decline from 35 onwards. If she tries for a child with a new partner she will lose more time in finding a partner, developing a relationship etc. I've seen enough friends try and try and fail past 35.

I think what she is doing is awful, but I think that he has a responsibility to look after his end of things as far as contraception goes if he doesn't want to be a father.

I don't believe for a minute that he is unaware of her maternal feelings. He is choosing to participate here.

People have to be allowed to take responsibility for their own behaviour.

I find it distasteful when outsiders choose to be the morality police in other peoples relationships. No one really knows what goes on privately with 2 other people. There could be loads to the story that the OP is unaware of.

The level of description and judgement that the OP is making about other peoples moral choices rings a bit off with me tbh. It's all a bit curtain twitching and judging that she knows what's best for other people.

Clearlier

You describe to me what sounds like a great recipe for an unhappy and broken marriage. Given what you describe I would tell her that you're going to tell him and then I'd tell him about the conversation.

Fentdog84

Don't hesitate,tell him. If she can brag openly about her 'plan' to a table full of people well then she must be very sure of herself if she thinks that something like this wont get back to him. I wouldnt give a damn about 'her time' or whatnot what she is trying to do is disgraceful.

nc19

Tell him, end of story


What if it was happening to your brother???

Merkin

I'd tell him, it's not like she swore you to secrecy either considering she's going around telling people....what a strange girl.

Tramps Like Us

Jesus, tell him!!

What a nasty so and so that woman is. Stupid too, she'll be left with the baby

Little Acorn

Get your brother to tell him.

If you want to keep yourself out of trouble here you could bring up the conversation with her again at home/anywhere whilst your brother is in the vicinity and stage a scenario that your brother 'overheard' ye.
(you could have already filled yr brother in on what's going on and for him to go along with the 'overhearing' ye story)

I doubt your brother would have any qualms telling his good friend what he knows and she wouldn't expect him to stay quiet about it.
She couldn't exactly get mad at you about it either - not your fault if your brother accidentally on purpose overheard her twisted plans.

ivytwine

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Well if he is stupid enough not to take responsibility for contraception, uses her when it suits him maybe they deserve each other and prevent two other innocents being pulled in to the scene. Best mind your own business

But what about any kid dragged onto the scene? They would be innocents, dragged into a completely farcical relationship.

The guy's an idiot for not using contraception- the fact he is doing this at the age of 25 is another sign of how much he should NOT be a father.

Maybe this guy will grow up in his own sweet time. But as for her....

If she says she doesn't want to be a single mum, tell her she might have to be anyway. Just because he comes 'from an old fashioned family' does not mean he will stick around. He could deny paternity- he could try and make her get an abortion. This 'plan' of hers is craziness.

I know she wants a child badly, but the fact that she is willing to do this shows she doesn't really, or at least she is not in anyway thinking of its welfare. This is completely and utterly selfish and if she doesn't have the maturity to realise a child would be better off out of a situation like this, she shouldn't have one.

Tell him OP, normally I would be the 'leave them at it' school of thought, but Christ, there are enough unwanted and unloved children in the world, the last thing we need are more.

username123

ivytwine wrote: »

....but Christ, there are enough unwanted and unloved children in the world, the last thing we need are more.

Why would the child be unwanted and unloved, she is actively trying for a child - so presumably it is both wanted and would be loved!

ivytwine

username123 wrote: »

Why would the child be unwanted and unloved, she is actively trying for a child - so presumably it is both wanted and would be loved!

I don't think this woman has any concept of what wanting a child means. It means wanting what's best for the child. If she wants to drag a child into this car crash then clearly she just wants the idea of a child, she wants the 'fairytale' as the OP says.

If she really wanted a child she would have it in a more stable situation. She would even have it on her own by sperm donation. Or adopt. Or even foster. To me that would be better for the child than trying to force an immature 20-something into a shotgun marriage.

She doesn't want a child, not really, she wants a doll and a fairytale, because she's a child herself.

EDIT: Not to say she wouldn't do her best by the child if she had it, but I can imagine having a father who has absolutely no interest in you and resents your mother from 'trapping' him would not be the best for the child's development. What if it was a girl? Look at the way this guy talks about women.

Merkin

whatshouldido wrote: »

She has spoken in the past of his family background and their wealth and I have to question if this is a factor, and makes him more appealing than opting for an anonymous sperm donor?

You know I was reading your OP again and you simply have to tell this guy. Regardless of him being immature and not being a perfect boyfriend, it seems like she is viewing him as two things. Number one a sperm donor and number two as a free meal ticket. If his family are well off and she is going to great lengths to be so sycophantic to his Mother etc it sounds like she is thinking "kerching" if she gets pregnant. It will solve all her worries in one felt swoop - her ticking body clock and the problems she's having paying her mortgage. I know she's your friend but she sounds like a right little schemer who is hell bent on getting her way regardless of how sneaky and dishonest it is and with no regard for the impact it will have on other people's lives. Tell him.