£4m worth of Bitcoins accidentally thrown out

Gyalist

Buried somewhere under four feet of mud and rubbish, in the Docksway landfill site near Newport, Wales, in a space about the size of a football pitch is a computer hard drive worth more than £4m.

It belonged to James Howells, who threw it out when he was clearing up his desk in mid-summer and discovered the part, rescued from a defunct Dell laptop. He found it in a drawer and put it in a bin.

And then last Friday he realised that it held a digital wallet with 7,500 Bitcoins created for almost nothing in 2009 - and then worth about the same.

"You know when you put something in the bin, and in your head, say to yourself 'that's a bad idea'? I really did have that," Howells, who works in IT, told the Guardian. "I don't have an exact date, the only time period I can give – and I've been racking my own brains – is between 20 June and 10 August. Probably mid-July". At the time he obliviously threw them away, the 7,500 Bitcoins on the hard-drive were worth around £500,000. Since then, the cryptocurrency's value has soared, passing $1,000 on Wednesday afternoon.

LINK

Ouch!!

Have you ever accidentally thrown away something valuable?

Some years ago I was working in London and one morning as I was walking to the bus stop to get the bus to the City, I accidentally threw my expensive annual Travelcard into a bin instead of the newspaper that I'd meant to discard. When the bus arrived I quickly realised my mistake and had to rummage through the bin, while dressed in a smart suit, to retrieve it.

I'm not easily embarrassed but I was that day as it seemed that all the passengers on the bus were staring at me as I knelt on the footpath with my arm shoulder-deep in the bin trying to fish out the Travelcard.

kneemos

Gyalist wrote: »

LINK

Ouch!!

Have you ever accidentally thrown away something valuable?

Some years ago I was working in London and one morning as I was walking to the bus stop to get the bus to the City, I accidentally threw my expensive annual Travelcard into a bin instead of the newspaper that I'd meant to discard. When the bus arrived I quickly realised my mistake and had to rummage through the bin, while dressed in a smart suit, to retrieve it.

I'm not easily embarrassed but I was that day as it seemed that all the passengers on the bus were staring at me as I knelt on the footpath with my arm shoulder-deep in the bin trying to fish out the Travelcard.

Probably no different from your average investment banker several years ago.

BorneTobyWilde

I dunno how they can be on a hard drive yet there is no record of them anywhere else. It's like looking at my bank statement on screen, throwing away my screen and having no money because of it. What a scary currency .

BorneTobyWilde

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I dunno how they can be on a hard drive yet there is no record of them anywhere else. It's like looking at my bank statement on screen, throwing away my screen and having no money because of it. What a scary currency .

I get where you're coming from.

But then again, it's more access codes and what not he had on it.
Like he could have kept them on paper on the fridge.

Would be kind of similar to having money hid in the Bahamas, not backing up the access codes etc then throwing away the only record of them.

Caliden

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I dunno how they can be on a hard drive yet there is no record of them anywhere else. It's like looking at my bank statement on screen, throwing away my screen and having no money because of it. What a scary currency .

It's an offline wallet.

Compare it to stuffing your wallet full of cash and throwing it in the bin except your wallet is a locked safe and only you have the key and the value of the cash is increasing.
So even if someone does find it, it's useless to them.

ectoraige

Yeah... when bitcoin came out I started mining as it coincided with a project on micropayments I was looking at. I know it was finding new units every now and then but I've no idea what happened to the machine it was running on. I think I did a reinstall and probably set up seti@home again. I'm not even going to think about how much it might have been worth.

MagicMarker

Can someone please explain to me WTF Bitcoin actually is?

As a currency anyway, it's doomed.

Everytime another person loses them or stores them it's more currency taken out of the market.

I can't see it rising more more than $1000 USB per coin.

I think if you invested early it's time to cash out.

WellThen?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69755074

jamo2oo9

MagicMarker wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me WTF Bitcoin actually is?

Bitcoin is an online currency developed by some anomynous genius that goes by the name of Satoshi Nakamoto. It's an open source peer-to-peer electronic money and payment network so in other words, it's a much safer form of paying your transaction on the internet than using your credit card. Think of it as another form of currency but except it's not controlled by anyone like the Federal Government or whatnot and it has value.

jamo2oo9

gilberto_eire wrote: »

As a currency anyway, it's doomed.

Everytime another person loses them or stores them it's more currency taken out of the market.

I can't see it rising more more than $1000 USB per coin.

I think if you invested early it's time to cash out.

I think you meant USD? If so, it has already risen above $1000USD

Jimoslimos

What happens if your hard drive decides to fail (a not too uncommon occurrence)? Seems dangerous to keep them all in a single location.

I've never thrown away a hard drive without wiping the contents first and then dismantling it. Oh and electronic and electrical waste shouldn't be going to landfill anyway!

jamo2oo9

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Bitcoin is an online currency developed by some anomynous genius that goes by the name of Satoshi Nakamoto.

He's obviously not a genius at the whole anonymity thing.

sReq | uTeK

gilberto_eire wrote: »

As a currency anyway, it's doomed.

Everytime another person loses them or stores them it's more currency taken out of the market.

I can't see it rising more more than $1000 USB per coin.

I think if you invested early it's time to cash out.

Is there only a set amount ? surely more can be "manufactured"

jamo2oo9

Jimoslimos wrote: »

What happens if your hard drive decides to fail (a not too uncommon occurrence)? Seems dangerous to keep them all in a single location.

I've never thrown away a hard drive without wiping the contents first and then dismantling it. Oh and electronic and electrical waste shouldn't be going to landfill anyway!

If you want to prevent that from happening, you can make your bitcoin wallet safer by putting it on paper. Not sure how it works though it but it can be done and you could stored this in a safe in your house or in your bank or whatever and you would never have to rely on the reliability of your hard drive.

Mint Aero

Jimoslimos wrote: »

What happens if your hard drive decides to fail (a not too uncommon occurrence)? Seems dangerous to keep them all in a single location.

Yes it is. Backup on 5 memory sticks.

jamo2oo9

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Is there only a set amount ? surely more can be "manufactured"

Bitcoins has a maximum mining total of 21million BTC which is due to run out in 2140 (sometime in that decade).

jamo2oo9

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

I think you meant USD? If so, it has already risen above $1000USD

I did.

I just checked midthread and saw it was hoovering around the $1k mark(on peever or whatever its called) though I know every market rates them a bit different.

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Is there only a set amount ? surely more can be "manufactured"

Yes 21million, created a few years ago with the assumption no more would be made.

So when people hoard or lose them, it sees the market shrink.

What people probably need to realise aswell is, the only guys who seem to use them for purchases at a consistent rate are the lads who use them on TheSilkRoad to buy drugs.

When the SilkRoad1 was raided and shut the market crashed as 1000s of $/€ worth of bitcoins were seized.

If the market keeps spiralling, those lads on TheSilkRoad2 will move to a more stable alternative, the last time I was on there reading was last week and they jumped $300 since then so wouldn't be surprised if thats coming soon.

Jimoslimos

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

If you want to prevent that from happening, you can make your bitcoin wallet safer by putting it on paper. Not sure how it works though it but it can be done and you could stored this in a safe in your house or in your bank or whatever and you would never have to rely on the reliability of your hard drive.

So kinda like if you had a shed with a safe buried in concrete and you made two keys in case one got lost....instead of kango hammering it out and taking an angle grinder to it, only to find your imaginary wealth amounted to a few soggy curry jars.

Mint Aero

gilberto_eire wrote: »

As a currency anyway, it's doomed.

Everytime another person loses them or stores them it's more currency taken out of the market.

I can't see it rising more more than $1000 USB per coin.

I think if you invested early it's time to cash out.

If someone loses their bitcoins, the value of the currency increases. It's divisable by 8. 1 bitcoin could potentially be 700 grams of gold or nothing. We'll have to wait and see.

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Is there only a set amount ? surely more can be "manufactured"

No, 21 million is the max which won't be mined until 2140 I think. Currently 12 million bitcoins available.

Jimoslimos

Mint Aero wrote: »

Yes it is. Backup on 5 memory sticks.

Electromagnetic pulse...

FearDark

I don't understand. If he bought them surelly theres a record of that somewhere. I mean how can you physically loose currency from a hard drive?

Mint Aero

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Electromagnetic pulse...

:eek:

anncoates

Is it essential for nerd acceptance to always use the phrase mining when discussing bitcoin?

alb

FearDark wrote: »

I don't understand. If he bought them surelly theres a record of that somewhere. I mean how can you physically loose currency from a hard drive?

Because in order to have money that no one else controls, which is completely free (as in speech), can't be frozen or taken from you as you cross borders it must be in your full control.

You can choose to store the private key for your bitcoins on a harddrive, on usb keys, or print them on paper. Without the private key for an address the coins can never be spent from that address.

If people don't feel confident enough to take the responsibility of handling their own bitcoins, they can trust a 3rd party to do it by depositing their coins on an exchange or online wallet service, but then you lose full control and risk them losing, stealing, freezing your coins.

It's like the trade off of leaving your money in a bank or keeping cash under your matress, or gold buried in your garden, if your house burns down or someone finds your gold, you've lost your money and you've no comeback.

Seaneh

Deleted User wrote: »

He's obviously not a genius at the whole anonymity thing.

Seeing as that's a pseudonym, I reckon he's doing alright at the anonymity.

listermint

Arent they only worth their perceived worth though ? Like most currencies unless backed up by some precious metal which incidentally also has a perceived worth.

FearDark

alb wrote: »

Because in order to have money that no one else controls, which is completely free (as in speech), can't be frozen or taken from you as you cross borders it must be in your full control.

You can choose to store the private key for your bitcoins on a harddrive, on usb keys, or print them on paper. Without the private key for an address the coins can never be spent from that address.

If people don't feel confident enough to take the responsibility of handling their own bitcoins, they can trust a 3rd party to do it by depositing their coins on an exchange or online wallet service, but then you lose full control and risk them losing, stealing, freezing your coins.

Just far far too convoluted and risky for me.

Mint Aero

listermint wrote: »

Arent they only worth their perceived worth though ? Like most currencies unless backed up by some precious metal which incidentally also has a perceived worth.

I think you answered your own question there

Seaneh

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I did.

I just checked midthread and saw it was hoovering around the $1k mark(on peever or whatever its called) though I know every market rates them a bit different.



Yes 21million, created a few years ago with the assumption no more would be made.

So when people hoard or lose them, it sees the market shrink.

What people probably need to realise aswell is, the only guys who seem to use them for purchases at a consistent rate are the lads who use them on TheSilkRoad to buy drugs.

When the SilkRoad1 was raided and shut the market crashed as 1000s of $/€ worth of bitcoins were seized.

If the market keeps spiralling, those lads on TheSilkRoad2 will move to a more stable alternative, the last time I was on there reading was last week and they jumped $300 since then so wouldn't be surprised if thats coming soon.

When someone loses their offline wallet/bitcoins are taken out of circulation, it increases the value of what is left, not decreases, it creates even less supply to meet the demand, this is basic stuff gilberto.

Seaneh

Seaneh wrote: »

Seeing as that's a pseudonym, I reckon he's doing alright at the anonymity.

I was being somewhat sarcastic in addressing the post I quoted. The net may be closing though. http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/11/24/2120231/study-suggests-link-between-dread-pirate-roberts-and-satoshi-nakamoto

nxbyveromdwjpg

So many here just don't get it

Seaneh

FearDark wrote: »

I don't understand. If he bought them surelly theres a record of that somewhere. I mean how can you physically loose currency from a hard drive?

Ok, you can store bitcoins in two ways, online wallets (secure, but not unhackable in theory) of offline, which is more secure as it's untouchable by anyone who doesn't have access to your storage device, most people use a USB drive or portable hard drive. Problem with this is, if you lose your storage device, you use the coins.

Basically when you "download" your wallet to your device, the coin is "deleted" from your online wallet and no longer exists online, lose the device and you lose everything.

Forget your password, and you lose everything.

alb

Deleted User wrote: »

I was being somewhat sarcastic in addressing the post I quoted. The net may be closing though. http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/11/24/2120231/study-suggests-link-between-dread-pirate-roberts-and-satoshi-nakamoto

Those 2 researchers completely embarrassed themselves, by failing to find some information they could have found with a quick google search. Here's a retort from the guy who actually owned one of the wallets in question:

http://blog.dustintrammell.com/2013/11/26/i-am-not-satoshi/

kowloon

I had some I [mined] with a graphics card that was developing problems. Seeing as I was sending back the card anyway I thought I'd burn through it (they get hot at 100% load). I left the BTC in a Mt. Gox account before deciding to put it in my own wallet. Planned on putting it on paper but my power supply blew up and took out all of my hard drives. All I have left are the very last fractions that I hadn't transferred from the mining pool. Lesson learnt: back up your stuff. RAID arrays aren't worth anything when everything attached dies together.

Nemeses2050

MagicMarker wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me WTF Bitcoin actually is?

They are just load of bollix, you earn/mine them by solving puzzle's. the more powerful computer the more bit coins you mine. But the catch is there will only be 21 mil bitcoins for a population of 7 billion. It's value rising simply because of speculators and dodgy dealers.

Caliden

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Is there only a set amount ? surely more can be "manufactured"

Unlike normal currencies which have 1 cent or 1 penny as the smallest unit of currency, 1 bitcoin can be broken down into a smaller decimal depending on how much you want to buy.

e.g. Right now $50 will buy you 0.04792871 BTC


So they can be manufactured in the sense that you can 'break down' a bitcoin into smaller pieces

pickarooney

Is it better or worse for the whole BitCoin sham if the plebs start using it?

c_man

anncoates wrote: »

Is it essential for nerd acceptance to always use the phrase mining when discussing bitcoin?

Why shouldn't people use the proper terms?