4 Day Split - productive?

floggg

I'm currently going to the gym three times a week, doing a 3 day split. My main priority is weight loss.

I'm going to have a lot of time on my hands for the next 2 months and wanted to do more gym work, so was thinking about adding an extra day to the gym. So I was thinking off going to a 4 day split.

Would this make sense? And if so, what type of split would people recommend.

Due to a niggly knee injury (for which im currently attending Physio for, and working on) I can't really do any running/jogging during the week apart from 5 a side soccer once a week. And apart from jogging and weights I never really get into any other exercise.

And I know diet is key. I know what it should look like and I know where I go wrong.

I'm just wondering about the exercise part at the minute.

Mellor

Why are you doing a 3 day split now?

Why are you considering a 4 day split?
It sounds like its simply because you'll be going 4 days a week. I don't think thats a good reason on its own tbh.
There no reason you can't do a simple program alternation between 2 workouts, and do each workout twice each week. There are lots of options for splitting a program in two (A/B, Upper/Lower, push/pull, etc). And they are all probably going to be better than a potential 4 day split. In general, when people who aren't sure what they doing, start splitting their training in more pieces, more crap makes its way in.

floggg

Mellor wrote: »

Why are you doing a 3 day split now?

Why are you considering a 4 day split?
It sounds like its simply because you'll be going 4 days a week. I don't think thats a good reason on its own tbh.
There no reason you can't do a simple program alternation between 2 workouts, and do each workout twice each week. There are lots of options for splitting a program in two (A/B, Upper/Lower, push/pull, etc). And they are all probably going to be better than a potential 4 day split. In general, when people who aren't sure what they doing, start splitting their training in more pieces, more crap makes its way in.

Which is why I wasn't really sure of there's any point. I don't really want to go off doing a body builder program spending time in vanity exercises. It was more just to get an extra day.

Theres a couple of reasons for the three day split - I've always understood that focusing on compound lifts is most beneficial and this allows me to focus on one a day; i enjoy doing these lifts and I'm more likely to stick to something I enjoy, and my knee injury doesn't allow me to train legs for 48 hours after soccer which means I'd have to day an upper and lower body split if I did a two day split and I don't leg doing deads and squats on the same day.

Also, by doing a three day split I feel compelled to get in all three days a week. On two day splits I find it harder to motivate myself to go the third or fourth day.

My current split is pretty close to this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68120286&postcount=4

I don't want to do something just for the sake of it, but I guess I'd like to figure out how to add an extra day activity in - and with my knee my most viable option is more weights.

thegreatiam

I'm a sufferer of bad knees too,

have you considered rowing machines. If all you want is an extra days activity then 15-20 of HIIT on a rower will be low impact exercise
IE 500m fast as fcuk, 30s rest, repeat till you fall over and flop around like a fish trying to catch your breath.

Dependent on your knee issue of course. Will be flexing it but no impact.

floggg

thegreatiam wrote: »

I'm a sufferer of bad knees too,

have you considered rowing machines. If all you want is an extra days activity then 15-20 of HIIT on a rower will be low impact exercise
IE 500m fast as fcuk, 30s rest, repeat till you fall over and flop around like a fish trying to catch your breath.

Dependent on your knee issue of course. Will be flexing it but no impact.

To be honest, I just don't enjoy doing "stationary" cardio - be it threadmill, rowing machine, cross trainer etc.

I know I would struggle to stick to it and will be just look at the timer counting down the seconds until I finish!

Perhaps I'm being too fussy but I kinda need to enjoy myself to stick to an exercise program.

dahat

floggg wrote: »

To be honest, I just don't enjoy doing "stationary" cardio - be it threadmill, rowing machine, cross trainer etc.

I know I would struggle to stick to it and will be just look at the timer counting down the seconds until I finish!

Perhaps I'm being too fussy but I kinda need to enjoy myself to stick to an exercise program.

Just try Intervals on the rower,really hard and enjoyable at the same time,ideal extra workout

thegreatiam

floggg wrote: »

To be honest, I just don't enjoy doing "stationary" cardio - be it threadmill, rowing machine, cross trainer etc.

I know I would struggle to stick to it and will be just look at the timer counting down the seconds until I finish!

Perhaps I'm being too fussy but I kinda need to enjoy myself to stick to an exercise program.

Sounds like you are being a bit fussy.

If your doing intervals then the timer or the distance is short, and you are going full bore.

If youre on a treadmill rower or cross trainer then you wont have time to get bored and look at the scenery.

500m rowing should be less than 2 minutes. then 30s rest then 500m, trying to better your time. and yes, you will be counting down the seconds until you finish, that's the point. but you will be praying to stop, through pain and exhaustion not boredom

You can mix the intervals, or shorten the distance.
pushing hard 100% for 30 seconds, then 50% for 15 seconds then back to 100% for 30 seconds.
There are plenty of ways to do HIIT and none of them will give you a chance to get bored, all will be done in less than 30 minutes.

floggg

thegreatiam wrote: »

Sounds like you are being a bit fussy.

If your doing intervals then the timer or the distance is short, and you are going full bore.

If youre on a treadmill rower or cross trainer then you wont have time to get bored and look at the scenery.

500m rowing should be less than 2 minutes. then 30s rest then 500m, trying to better your time. and yes, you will be counting down the seconds until you finish, that's the point. but you will be praying to stop, through pain and exhaustion not boredom

You can mix the intervals, or shorten the distance.
pushing hard 100% for 30 seconds, then 50% for 15 seconds then back to 100% for 30 seconds.
There are plenty of ways to do HIIT and none of them will give you a chance to get bored, all will be done in less than 30 minutes.

It's not that I get bored because I'm not working hard - I try to go balls out as much as I can.

It's just the very concept of sitting or standing in the one spot doing the same range of motion for 20-30 minutes just does not interest me in any way.

I generally wouldn't be one to sit and focus on one thing for so long anyway - my mind doesn't work that way.

So an exercise which forces me to focus on one little screen for 20-30 minutes just doesn't interest me.

It's even the same for me with laps. I would always do one long circuit when running but would have no interest in doing two or more laps of the same circuit.

It's just too repetitive.

Edit - anyway I'm joy too sure about rowing machine for my knee. I never asked the physio about it because its not something I usually do but it's not an impact injury, more muscle weakness and stability and repeated flexing for a prolonged period may not be best.

I actually tried rowing for 10 minutes the other morning and started to feel it on my knee after 6 or 7 minutes, but that was after squatting and lunges so it might not necessarily be the issue.

thegreatiam

floggg wrote: »

It's just the very concept of sitting or standing in the one spot doing the same range of motion for 20-30 minutes just does not interest me in any way.

I get what you are saying. But I think you misunderstand the concept.

You basically row for a minute. then rest. then row for a minute. No different than doing reps in a rack, and its usually done in 15 minutes.

floggg

thegreatiam wrote: »

I get what you are saying. But I think you misunderstand the concept.

You basically row for a minute. then rest. then row for a minute. No different than doing reps in a rack, and its usually done in 15 minutes.

Surely it's a minute high intensity and a minute low intensity?

I guess I see weights as a series of short term and changing challenges (each set has its own target).

And if I run out doors the challenge is more long term (distance or time) but at least there are various visual markers to gauge my progress (landmarks along the route) and various things like traffic lights and cars which keep your mind on task.

I don't have any of that though with a stationary exercise - just a clock to count down time on!

thegreatiam

floggg wrote: »

Surely it's a minute high intensity and a minute low intensity?

I guess I see weights as a series of short term and changing challenges (each set has its own target).

And if I run out doors the challenge is more long term (distance or time) but at least there are various visual markers to gauge my progress (landmarks along the route) and various things like traffic lights and cars which keep your mind on task.

I don't have any of that though with a stationary exercise - just a clock to count down time on!

No, mentality its the same as lifting a heavy weight.
Get on the rower, go balls to the wall for a minute.
Get off the rower and pose in the mirror for 30 seconds
get back on the rower and go balls to the wall again.

either set a short distance and try to beat your time completing it 300m-500m
or set a time and try to beat you distance during it.

Its not 30 minutes of fast then slow as you watch the clock tick down.

hanleys blog did a good set of suggestions for using a rower in this manner.

cant find the exact blog but http://www.revolutionfitness.ie/category/blog/, you can also ask him for the link.

Also, dont think of it as rowing, think of it as 100 squats in 1 minute.

floggg

thegreatiam wrote: »

No, mentality its the same as lifting a heavy weight.
Get on the rower, go balls to the wall for a minute.
Get off the rower and pose in the mirror for 30 seconds
get back on the rower and go balls to the wall again.

either set a short distance and try to beat your time completing it 300m-500m
or set a time and try to beat you distance during it.

Its not 30 minutes of fast then slow as you watch the clock tick down.

hanleys blog did a good set of suggestions for using a rower in this manner.

cant find the exact blog but http://www.revolutionfitness.ie/category/blog/, you can also ask him for the link.

Also, dont think of it as rowing, think of it as 100 squats in 1 minute.

I understand all that - I'm just telling you what I enjoy and what I don't.

Some people like soccer some don't. Some people like golf, some people have sex lives!

In my book I either enjoy an exercise or I don't. If I need to find a way to make it interesting or engaging then its not something I really enjoy of itself.

I am fairly active and exercise 4 plus days a week. I was only looking to add another day because in going to have more time than usual on my hands for the next two months and I enjoy working out.

Sad as it is I'm looking to find a way to fill my time as my boyfriend will be away for a good bit of the time.

But if it doesn't make sense for me to add another day of something I enjoy I'm not too fussed with adding a day of something I don't.

I can also just go on a beer and pizza binge like most other guys do when given a bit of freedom from the other half!

floggg

thegreatiam wrote: »

Also, dont think of it as rowing, think of it as 100 squats in 1 minute.

Also the physio has me doing body weight squats (with a partial range of motion) until exhaustion everyday for the last two months so that's not the best way of motivating me!

Duck's hoop

Maybe motivate yourself then.

I never get this shìt. People come on, ask advice, get advice, disagree and then know best all along.

Here the deal; a lot of training is awful. It's either boring, or repetitive, or just physically really fcuking hard. Often all 3. Simultaneously.

This is some of why most people never get past below average.

Take cycling. In the off season, even your club cyclist will be putting in many, many miles at low intensity. If he's lucky it's outdoors. It's boring as hell anyway, but it needs to be done just to be in with a shout of winning the local sportive. It's training.

For all sports, and goals in life generally, the journey has great, enjoyable, fun stuff. But also a lot of boring repetitive drudge. Even if it starts out novel it becomes a chore. But it's what you need to do to achieve your goal.

In bodybuilding it's the eating. Training is fun, mostly, but if you don't boringly eat a shít ton of boring food then you're just not going to get past a certain point.

I knew a basketball player would shoot 300 free throws every day. That's got to be boring as hell after a bit.

It is not the internet's job to motivate you.

floggg

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Maybe motivate yourself then.

I never get this shìt. People come on, ask advice, get advice, disagree and then know best all along.

Here the deal; a lot of training is awful. It's either boring, or repetitive, or just physically really fcuking hard. Often all 3. Simultaneously.

This is some of why most people never get past below average.

Take cycling. In the off season, even your club cyclist will be putting in many, many miles at low intensity. If he's lucky it's outdoors. It's boring as hell anyway, but it needs to be done just to be in with a shout of winning the local sportive. It's training.

For all sports, and goals in life generally, the journey has great, enjoyable, fun stuff. But also a lot of boring repetitive drudge. Even if it starts out novel it becomes a chore. But it's what you need to do to achieve your goal.

In bodybuilding it's the eating. Training is fun, mostly, but if you don't boringly eat a shít ton of boring food then you're just not going to get past a certain point.

I knew a basketball player would shoot 300 free throws every day. That's got to be boring as hell after a bit.

It is not the internet's job to motivate you.

I don't think that's what I'm doing - at least that wasn't my intent.

I already do a reasonable amount of exercise. I could certainly do more, and train better, harder, faster, stronger etc. I'm sure people could certainly find a more efficient use of my training time.

I wasn't looking for that though. I am currently happy with what I am doing and enjoy it, even if i could be doing things better.

Simply because I have some time on my hands this week and for most of the the next few weeks, I thought about adding in an extra day in the gym because its a more enjoyable use of my time then Netflix (for the most part).

However, knowing that I don't know very much at all, I wondered whether that plan actually made any sense at all so I thought I would get a reality check on it here before I did anything. The whole point of me asking this was because I was very conscious of my own ignorance.

Apart from Mellor, nobody has actually answered the question I asked. If they were to tell me there is no point in doing it, I wouldn't - though I am getting the sense that its probably not worth it.

So it's not a case of me ignoring advice, rather a case of people not answering my question.

I already go to the gym three times a week, play soccer 1-2 times a week and cycle in and out of work. I see the 4th day as being fairly optional in my book. I'm not trying to become a professional athlete or to become above average. I just want to be reasonably health and shed some pounds, and my downfall is really food/diet not lack of exercise.

So I'm only really interested in adding an extra day if i believe it's something that will benefit me and that I will enjoy. I think I'm already doing a reasonable amount for what I want to get out of it.

And given my modest aims, it's not like 4 days would really be necessary I would have thought!

Duck's hoop

In hindsight and on reflection, yes. My apologies. But you're still making excuses. Do the rower, it will reward you.

floggg

Duck's hoop wrote: »

In hindsight and on reflection, yes. My apologies. But you're still making excuses. Do the rower, it will reward you.

But I don't want to!!!

I may do some cross trainer/rower work tonight as it happens, just because I have nothing better to do, but I can't see myself doing so on a regular basis.

I hope to be back running again by the end of the month, which I will enjoy and will do regularly.

Sangre

Use the time to work on mobility/flexibility.

You can stretch your existing work-out to 4 days, add one or two extra exercises and add on 15-20 minutes of mobility work before each work-out.

floggg

Sangre wrote: »

Use the time to work on mobility/flexibility.

You can stretch your existing work-out to 4 days, add one or two extra exercises and add on 15-20 minutes of mobility work before each work-out.

That would I think be useful for me.

What I was thinking of was maybe splitting chest/back/shoulders (which i currently do on one day) to chest/shoulders and back/arms?

Sangre

I don't personally like to workout body parts just once a week. However, if you're doing a fully day 4 day split that is a good a group as any.