He changed his mind about proposing

LegacyUser

Hi. I posted something briefly about this a while back but I still can't get it out of my head so I thought I'd see what you guys think coz I feel like I'm going crazy thinking about this constantly.
Basically my OH of 4.5 years had a conversation with my mother around Christmas '09 in which he told her he was planning on proposing to me. He told her how he was going to do it,where,the whole lot. Mammy's being Mammy's,my mother told me this (lol!) and naturally the two of us were very excited and waited for the big moment. And waited. And waited. Needless to say it never happened.

Now this conversation did happen in the pub and as you can imagine at christmas he was very well oiled. But still lucid and coherent and everything and my mother knows drunk sh1te-talk and says this wasn't it,that he meant every word.

So basically in an argument and serious discussion about where our relationship is going a couple of months ago I mentioned this proposal that never was to him and he said he remembered the conversation and then said (and I quote) "I'm not being nasty but I say a lot of things I don't mean when I'm pissed."

To say this was like a dagger through my heart is an understatement. I just can't seem to get over it in my mind even though we are still together. He swears he loves me and wants to spend the rest of his life with me and I believe him,we have a good relationship, but he doesn't see marriage any time soon. He's five years younger than me and "doesn't feel ready". He's 28. He felt ready that night that he told my mother though and she says he definitely meant what he said that night.

I don't know which is worse, that he would say that without meaning it after drink, or that he did mean it that night but has changed his mind since,gone off the idea. Either way I'm heartbroken and though I know we will get engaged at some point because we do love each other and are happy together, i feel like it will be tainted now. I had always dreamed of him proposing to me but if and when it does happen now this will always be hanging over it for me,it's been ruined.

Do you think I am over-reacting? I really don't think I am coz I think any girl would be devastated by this. I do love him and am secure in his love for me but I cannot stop thinking about this and everytime I do i feel like crying.

I would be interested to know what others think of this situation and how you would handle it coz I'm lost?

LegacyUser

Aw OP, I'm really sorry that he never came through for you! It's way worse that you were certain he was going to and then never did, than if he had never mentioned it at all.

Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter whether he meant it then, or why he has changed his mind - probably for the same commitment-phobic reasons that many a guy who in theory may like the idea of marriage, wont actually bite the bullet. All that matters, sadly, is that now he's laying it on the line and telling you (quite cruelly, it must be said), that marriage isn't on the cards.

Just because he is 28 doesn't necessarily mean he's beyond all the settling down issues of younger guys. I know a guy who's 31, who recently ended a long relationship because he wasn't ready for commitment. He was happy to drift along with things for years, until he knew he had to tell her he wasn't ready to settle down yet. Guys do things like that sometimes, and leave the responsibility of broaching the subject to the girl.

If you need more than he will commit to, get out. don't waste more time on him. I know ultimatums always seem so dramatic - but either it will kick him into realising he DOES want that future, and wants it with you ...or it won't, and horrible as that would be, you will be free to move on in time to someone more mature, with the same ideas as you.

I hope this is helpful! you deserve better than to be waiting around for this guy, honestly you do! and if it turns out you want different things, it'll hurt like hell for a while to be apart from him, but in years to come you'll look back and thank your lucky stars you didn't waste any more time on him.

Let us know how it goes

okiss

At Christmas 09 you Oh told your mother that he was going to propose to you and has done nothing about it since - this is now March 2011 sorry but he has no excuse at this stage about where your relationship is going.
If you had this chat with him at Christmas 2009 and he still has made no move it would be hard but only you would know but telling your mother then and letting things drift on since then is very mean. I knew girls like you who stayed in relationships for 6 years plus with nothing - broke up and then met guys who wanted commitment and families.
You could stay with him for another 2 or 3 years and be no further on but at this stage if your are with him over four years you should be making long term plans. It's time for him to grow up and show what you mean to him but some guys want the girl and expect the girl to wait for ever for some thing that will never happen
Leaving him may be the hardest thing you ever do but don't waste time on some one who does not want the same things as you.
Good luck and let us know what happens.

curlzy

Oh wow OP, big big big HUG, that is just so devastating! I can't get over the fact that he told your mother!!!! What a ****ing tool! I just know the kind of conversations you've had with her since, all the planning and excitement. The humilation of that is very unfair. TBH your BF sound immature, selfish and foolish. It's been 15 months and he still hasn't done it, that's a hell of a long time to be anticipating something that never materializes. If he's 28 that means you're 33, do you really have time to hang around hoping that he grows up??? If I were you I would be thinking very seriously about breaking this off. He doesn't sound very senisitive or caring. I wouldn't be giving him any ultimatums either, he either wants to marry you or not, don't beg or it really would be tainted!!! Whatever you decide I hope it leads you to a happier place.

AB1980!

If you are absolutely certain that he will propose in time then I wouldnt worry about this ruining it when it does happen. My (now, eventually, finally!) hubby made a couple of false starts which totally broke my heart, but when he finally got his act together it was't one bit diminished by what went before. In fact it was better because I knew it was what he really wanted and he was 100% ready. So as hard as this bit is now, I wouldn't let the fear of it spoiling the future get to you. If everything pans out you will actually laugh about this in time, believe it or not!

That said we were a bit younger and as you are now 33 you might not be prepared to wait around. Only you can answer that.

LegacyUser

If he says he intends on spending the rest of his life with you, then why is an engagement or wedding so important? I'm not going to go into the rights that it gives people with regards to future children, as that's just not why people get married, despite what people will claim.

It's his intentions that are important. Engagement and marriage these days are nothing but symbols of the inability to discard outdated and inappropriate ceremonies. More than 50% of marriages end in divorce, afterall.

If you're upset that you won't have a ring to show off to your girlfriends, or the chance to spend a huge amount of money to entertain your friends for the day, I'm sure you can find a way around it.

curlzy

whatwhatinthebhat wrote: »

If he says he intends on spending the rest of his life with you, then why is an engagement or wedding so important? I'm not going to go into the rights that it gives people with regards to future children, as that's just not why people get married, despite what people will claim.

It's his intentions that are important. Engagement and marriage these days are nothing but symbols of the inability to discard outdated and inappropriate ceremonies. More than 50% of marriages end in divorce, afterall.

If you're upset that you won't have a ring to show off to your girlfriends, or the chance to spend a huge amount of money to entertain your friends for the day, I'm sure you can find a way around it.

LOL!!!! What a load of boll*x, 50% of marraiges end in divorse eh? And where did the OP mention a ring to show off or huge amount of money? You're making crazy assumptions.

OP I would take this post with a pinch of salt, the poster obviously has alot of bitterness regarding marraige and is a bit nuts, what kind of intelligent adult presents their personal opinion (and a stupid opinion IMO) as if it were a fact??? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

twinQuins

I think you should be looking more at your mother than your BF, tbh.

Saying she knows drunk talk and this wasn't it sounds like wishful thinking to me: she wanted to buy into the idea that he was going to propose even if she suspected he didn't mean it.
Only your BF can know whether it was drunk talk or not as your mother would be in a more than biased position.

Besides, it was your mother, not your BF, who built you up like this.

I'd also agree with whatwhatinthebhat, in saying that for some people marriage just isn't important. Some don't need that to feel comitted to another person and your BF may be one of those people.

whatwhatinthebhat

whatwhatinthebhat wrote: »

If he says he intends on spending the rest of his life with you, then why is an engagement or wedding so important? I'm not going to go into the rights that it gives people with regards to future children, as that's just not why people get married, despite what people will claim.

It's his intentions that are important. Engagement and marriage these days are nothing but symbols of the inability to discard outdated and inappropriate ceremonies. More than 50% of marriages end in divorce, afterall.

If you're upset that you won't have a ring to show off to your girlfriends, or the chance to spend a huge amount of money to entertain your friends for the day, I'm sure you can find a way around it.

There are legal rights other than children and practical benefits that aren't just "outdated ceremonies". Marriage is not a wedding.


I also agree that your mother is a bit much quoting drunk talk and deciding it couldnt have been - only he knows whether it was meant or not, not her

LegacyUser

curlzy wrote: »

LOL!!!! What a load of boll*x, 50% of marraiges end in divorse eh? And where did the OP mention a ring to show off or huge amount of money? You're making crazy assumptions.

OP I would take this post with a pinch of salt, the poster obviously has alot of bitterness regarding marraige and is a bit nuts, what kind of intelligent adult presents their personal opinion (and a stupid opinion IMO) as if it were a fact??? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If you'd care to take a minute to actually research the matter, you'd see that the 50% statistic is near correct. In 2007, the divorce rate here was 1/3. I'd expect it to be significantly higher now. In the US, 40-50% of first marriages end in divorce, the rate of divorce for 2nd and 3rd marriages is significantly higher. 1/3 is low for Europe, and if you calculated the average of all European countries, I'm sure it'd be similar to that of the US. Perhaps higher, given that the church has a tighter hold on the US now than it does on Europe.

Thank you for resorting to the personal insults and lack of facts though, it says more about you than you could say yourself.

With regards to showing off, well, that's what a lot of engagement and marriage is about, is it not? The rings are symbolic of ownership. If they're not for showing off, why are they usually demanded to be expensive, shiny and are shown off to anyone who'll look at it? Please, let us not kid ourselves here.

As I said, it's the mans intentions rather than some forced, empty gesture such as a proposal. If he truly does intend to spend the rest of his life with this woman, as he claims, then the money would simply be better spent. A trip around the world for the two of them, for instance, outweighs and ring and ceremony immeasurably.

With regards to the man in question, maybe these empty gestures just aren't that important to him? As I said, they're outdated, so perhaps he has other things in mind, such as life long partnership? If this is the case, then you could certainly meet in the middle without doing the whole marriage thing.

I also agree with TwinQuins, this isn't the mans fault. The mother built this into something it wasn't.

LegacyUser

His "intentions" are more important? I intend to lose half a stone, I intend to get a job, I intend to quit smoking- it isnt' worth a damn unless you actually DO something about it. It's the ACTION that counts. Or in this case, the inaction.
OP, I've been there. Word for word. LTR, he had the conversation-sober!- with both me and my mum. Dragged out for about 18months of anticipation until he was "ready", proposal arrived with bells on, then he refused to have any mention of marriage plans(for 2 further years ahead!)- "just enjoy the engagement". I left. It was tough then, and it's still tough.
But as you're finding out, it's VERY tough being in a relationship that's going nowhere, where you're trying to plan a future& the other person doesn't give a damn, where you're wondering what invisible hoops you need to jump through for him to realise you're "the one"& actually follow through. It's demeaning& humiliating having to bring up the topic of marriage/committment when nothing's forthcoming.
The mistake I made was trusting my ex would come through in the end- made no provisions for him not doing so. OP, you need to make your ground ready for the fall. Develop social networks with potential male suitors, get out& about, get fit, get confident. Proposal or no, you'll be glad of it. Good luck.

shellyboo

I think you're overreacting, OP. Why are you taking your mother's word about what your bf meant over his own? Your Mum did a really stupid thing in telling you what he said to her (while clearly drunk, when you both know what he's like apparently), imo it's her you should be mad at.

Your boyfriend has done nothing wrong except for drunkenly profess how serious he is about you to your Mother. If I'd heard the same thing, I'd have passed it off as drunk talk and think it was cute -- and I'd be really annoyed at whoever told me for interfering, ruining the surprise (if there was one), and putting pressure on our relationship.

Maple

Curlzy, dial it back on the hostility please.

Maple

SheRa

The boyf of my best friend mentioned to my then boyf that he was going to propose. My byf told me as he knew that I wouldn't say it to her,as it wouldnt be fair to spoil the surprise. As it happens the boyf didn't propose to her until a year or 2 later.

Op I can understand your disappointment that you have been waiting for it and it hasnt happened yet, but don't be annoyed at your boyf for this. I feel sorry for him, he was prob bloody mortified that he said that to your mam. If I were you id try to put it out of your mind. Maybe plan a romantic weekend away to have that to look forward to.

neverthebride

neverthebride wrote: »

he said he remembered the conversation and then said (and I quote) "I'm not being nasty but I say a lot of things I don't mean when I'm pissed."

I'm sorry but that is nasty. If he really truly cared about your feelings. Why wouldn't he warn you, when he remembered waxing so lyrically on the topic to your mother. Why wouldn't he feel apologetic when he found out that it had gotten back to you and caused you hurt. Or at the very least been more tactful when he was explaining himself.

Even if any of this had never happened. Four and a half years is long enough to put into something. Without progression or a planned future. Especially at your age.
I agree with sagdd, it's very easy to swear good intentions. It is not fair to ask someone to gamble their future on promises.
I think you owe it to yourself. To walk. If he is truly loves you and see's you as his future. He'll follow.

curlzy

whatwhatinthebhat wrote: »

If you'd care to take a minute to actually research the matter, you'd see that the 50% statistic is near correct. In 2007, the divorce rate here was 1/3. I'd expect it to be significantly higher now. In the US, 40-50% of first marriages end in divorce, the rate of divorce for 2nd and 3rd marriages is significantly higher. 1/3 is low for Europe, and if you calculated the average of all European countries, I'm sure it'd be similar to that of the US. Perhaps higher, given that the church has a tighter hold on the US now than it does on Europe.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
I didn't bother quoting all of your post and I won't be responding to it, like I say your personal opinion is very far from reality and I'm not bothered arguing about something as ridiculous as what you put forth here.

Unlike you I get my facts and figures from the Central Statistics Office, I don't know where you got your figures from but I'm going to assume it was from a friend of a friend of a friend. Like I said I can't stand when people put their incorrect and flawed personal opinions up as fact, to put it simpley, you're completely incorrect and wrong. Just to enlighten you here's the facts:

"In 2008, Ireland was the only EU country with a fertility rate greater than 2; the EU average was 1.53. The divorce rate in Ireland was 0.8 divorces per 1,000 population in 2007, the lowest rate in the EU."

LINK:
http://www.cso.ie/newsevents/pressrelease_measuringirelandsprogress2009.htm

These facts are from 2008, when this study was last carried out.

.8 per 1000 does not equal 50%!!!!!! Or maybe it does to you? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

OP, As you can see, most marraiges in this country are successful, if your boyfriend's reasons for not getting married are in any way related to this you should get him to click on the link and see for himself.

LegacyUser

Sorry Curlzy but if you're unable to interpret statistics properly, I suggest you not try at all. We did indeed have a divorce rate of 0.8 per 1,000 population in 2008, however in 2007 this equated to roughly 30% of all marriages that took place. As I said, I expect this to be significantly higher in 2011. In fact, I'd put money on it. Irish society is evolving rather rapidly and discarding a lot of the ridiculous Catholic traditions. If anything, the divorce rate can only really go upwards, but I suppose that's an argument for another day.

Also, since you're too lazy to read properly, I said the US divorce rate averages at roughly 50% and although we have one of the currently lowest published rates in the EU, I would bet that the average rate for the EU as a whole would be close to 50% also.

It's ok though, I understand you don't know how to interpret facts and statistics correctly so I would suggest checking out divorce rates on google, you'll find them presented in a much more simplistic manner on many helpful sites. That is, if you're interested in facts and aren't just trying to push your own agenda, which you're clearly doing here. Also, quoting the fertility rate was, well, hilarious.

Regardless, it's blatantly obvious you've no idea how to interpret the statistic you quoted and are merely doing so to appear to have some credibility, which you don't and certainly won't after this hilarious fup up.

Enlarging and emboldening your text merely serves to prove my point. Hostility and ignorance will get you nowhere in life and particularly with regards to conversing with other people. Just because you're online, doesn't mean you're above a bit of courtesy and manners.

Regarding the rest of my post, well it's quite obvious you've no valid counter argument and are merely dodging it. Dismissing it as being removed from reality serves to belittle your own stance, as opposed what you really intended it to do. If you can't reply in a more rational, calm manner, I would suggest not bothering to at all, as serving up statistics you can't personally interpret and then aggressive waffle merely serves as thread filling, counter-productive crap and certainly does nothing for the original poster.

It would be great to see an update from the OP, regardless.

Count Duckula

OP, I think you need to seriously consider why you take your mother's word over your boyfriend's.

Maple

Folks, this isn't humanities. Statistics aren't relevant here. Please keep to the topic at hand and keep your advice constructive or else bans will be handed out and the thread closed.

Maple.

curlzy

whatwhatinthebhat wrote: »

Sorry Curlzy but if you're unable to interpret statistics properly, I suggest you not try at all. We did indeed have a divorce rate of 0.8 per 1,000 population in 2008, however in 2007 this equated to roughly 30% of all marriages that took place. As I said, I expect this to be significantly higher in 2011. In fact, I'd put money on it. Irish society is evolving rather rapidly and discarding a lot of the ridiculous Catholic traditions. If anything, the divorce rate can only really go upwards, but I suppose that's an argument for another day.

Also, since you're too lazy to read properly, I said the US divorce rate averages at roughly 50% and although we have one of the currently lowest published rates in the EU, I would bet that the average rate for the EU as a whole would be close to 50% also.

It's ok though, I understand you don't know how to interpret facts and statistics correctly so I would suggest checking out divorce rates on google, you'll find them presented in a much more simplistic manner on many helpful sites. That is, if you're interested in facts and aren't just trying to push your own agenda, which you're clearly doing here. Also, quoting the fertility rate was, well, hilarious.

Regardless, it's blatantly obvious you've no idea how to interpret the statistic you quoted and are merely doing so to appear to have some credibility, which you don't and certainly won't after this hilarious fup up.

Enlarging and emboldening your text merely serves to prove my point. Hostility and ignorance will get you nowhere in life and particularly with regards to conversing with other people. Just because you're online, doesn't mean you're above a bit of courtesy and manners.

Regarding the rest of my post, well it's quite obvious you've no valid counter argument and are merely dodging it. Dismissing it as being removed from reality serves to belittle your own stance, as opposed what you really intended it to do. If you can't reply in a more rational, calm manner, I would suggest not bothering to at all, as serving up statistics you can't personally interpret and then aggressive waffle merely serves as thread filling, counter-productive crap and certainly does nothing for the original poster.

It would be great to see an update from the OP, regardless.

You're quite right, I did interpret the facts incorrectly. I assumed it was a percentage of the marriages not population, my bad. The fact you spew such vitriol and question my intelligence and go on the attack regarding marriage would make me think you aren't in a successful relationship, as such do you really think you're the best person to advise others in the area of relationships issues? The fact you consider 27% as 50% makes me think you're quite the pessimist, maybe if you weren't that way you could be in a successful relationship? Now you can reply to me if you want, but I won't see it, I'm off to Hawaii for 2 months with my gorgeous boyfriend and I have to pack.

OP, just a thought; why no propose yourself? That way you'll know whether to call it a day and look for a real adult male that's capable of commitment.

Best of luck.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Ah you poor thing, awful thing to go through. However you're all at fault.

Firstly him for telling someone so close to you. Should have known she would tell.

Secondly her for telling you. What a buzz kill

Thirdly you for telling him you knew. Doubley so for bringing it up during a serious argument about where you're going! That just set the scene for saying something snappy in response.

So whilst he started this circle of madness you did f*ck up things up for bringing it up, and if he ever does propose has ruined things a bit.

I'd say have a proper discussion about where you're going, but keep this proposal escapade out of it.

LegacyUser

Hi everyone,OP here. Thanks for all the advice although it seemed to take a weird statistics turn there for a while.
Firstly,maybe I gave the wrong impression about my mam telling me. It's not like she ran to spill the beans straight away,she was asked to keep it to herself which she duly did for ages. The only reason it came out was coz I was having a "where are we going" crisis a while back and was seriously considering cutting my losses as I suspected he didn't want the same things as me. I went to my mam one day and literally started bawling. So she told me not to interfere and spoil things for me but to comfort and reassure me as I think anyone would in those circumstances. It's not her fault.

Probably is partly mine for bringing it up but you think that's bad?? We had a huge row involving this the other night and I in my wisdom thought it was a good idea to show him this thread as a means of explaining how I feel and how others understand so it can't just be me being oversensitive. I don't know what I was thinking. Needless to say he did not appreciate it. (Called you guys all sorts of things!)

Anyways, we've had a talk and made up since but the whole proposal thing has been left up in the air really. I didn't want to bring it up anymore and end up rowing again so I left it and he hasn't mentioned anymore about it since. Having said that he does seem to be making a big effort since we made up and is all talk about the future and houses and when we have kids etc so he is committed. I guess that's enough.

Maybe I am being selfish but every girl does dream about the big day so it's not something I can control! It's not necessarily to show off, it's more the romance of the whole thing. As for me proposing to him, I've been reading the thread from another poster on here who was considering proposing to her bf and judging by most of the reactions, particularly from guys, I don't think I'll be doing that!!

seenitall

Hi OP,

two things:

• Regarding him making more of an effort in terms of soothing talk, just remember: actions speak louder than words. I'm sorry but this guy doesn't sound "committed" at all. More like committed to sweet-talking you and stringing you along. Just beware.
• You are 33 and definitely want to get married with the whole package. Go for what you want in life. Don't find yourself still waiting for a proposal in 4.5 years. Time is, as I know you know, not on your side in terms of having kids etc.

Too many threads like this pop up on here, with women who have been waiting on a proposal that never materialised and never will. Makes me so glad that marriage is something I have absolutely no interest in, because these threads make a very depressing read, with the social implications of proposing and marrying left at men's disposal, while it is the women's bio clocks that are ticking. Often men aren't able to appreciate this point because they are too attached to their current lifestyles. That's all well and good, but as long as his lifestyle is his priority, your hopes and dreams should be yours. Remember that, OP. I would really hate to see you in the same position years down the line, all because he made a few noises about houses and babies, and you "guessed it's enough". It really isn't, otherwise this thread would not be in existence.

Best wishes.

okiss

Hello Op,

I agree with seenitall talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words. You have spoken to your oh. He knows what you have put on boards to get other people's view of your situation and was not happy about this.
Why is he not happy? Asking other members of boards what they think should be a warning to him that things have to change.

At this stage he should have told you that he does not want to get married and have a family instead of stringing you along.
I worked with a guy like yours a few years ago who had the decency to tell his girlfriend this. She is now married with 2 children and he is still on his own.
At 33 you know what you want and seenitall is right about having children.
One of my friends has being trying since her early 30's to have a family and now aged 40 she is expecting her first child via ivf.

Don't stay with you commitment shy oh any longer. He knows what you want, he is acting like this will happen some time to keep you sweet when he has everything he wants at the moment.
I know it will be hard to leave your oh but why stay when he is never going to move on and be an adult. It take guts to leave but if you don't you are waisting time in finding the person you deserve and who wants the same things as you.
I know 2 girls like you in the past who said good bye to commitment shy oh. They are now married with families so life can and does get better but you have to help yourself to get to this point.
I wish all the best and let us know what happens.

Boskowski

You say you're in a good relationship and you're feeling secure about your bfs love. And yet you are having more than one 'where are we going crisis' questioning everything over what really is a token gesture at the end of the day. Think about it.

seenitall

Boskowski wrote: »

You say you're in a good relationship and you're feeling secure about your bfs love. And yet you are having more than one 'where are we going crisis' questioning everything over what really is a token gesture at the end of the day. Think about it.

If the OP wants to be married before she has kids (which it appears she very much does), then marriage is obviously so much more than a token gesture for her. Think about it. :rolleyes:

Boskowski

I'm asking her to be rational about it and leave the irrational 'want' aside for a moment and reflect what a marriage really does for her in broad daylight. I imagine not a whole lot.

seenitall

Boskowski wrote: »

I'm asking her to be rational about it and leave the irrational 'want' aside for a moment and reflect what a marriage really does for her in broad daylight. I imagine not a whole lot.

What does rationalising have to do with it? Some people just have a wish to be married, and for lots of different reasons, many of which I am sure are not very rational; same as for people who don't want to get married, same as for people who choose any other path in their life or any profession, where those choices aren't deemed to be "rational" by others. That doesn't invalidate their wishes and goals. But it may mean that they are ultimately incompatible with their partners.

Boskowski

sunflower27 wrote: »

How can you possibly know what it means to her. :rolleyes:

What's with all the rolleyes? Am I speaking Japanese or something?

I'm not talking what it 'means' to her, that's emotional stuff.
I'm talking what it objectively does for her.

Does it make the relationship more secure? No, it doesn't.
Does it secure her position from a materialistic viewpoint? Maybe, but not as much as one would think.
What else is there? Standing in society? What other people think? Who cares. Thankfully we're past that.

So is it all that much that a marriage adds to a relationship, especially when one of them is not ready? Is whatever it adds worth breaking everything off when she admits herself the relationship is good and she is confident about her fellas love?

Boskowski

seenitall wrote: »

What does rationalising have to do with it? Some people just have a wish to be married, and for lots of different reasons, many of which I am sure are not very rational; same as for people who don't want to get married, same as for people who choose any other path in their life or any profession, where those choices aren't deemed to be "rational" by others. That doesn't invalidate their wishes and goals. But it may mean that they are ultimately incompatible with their partners.

See I don't get that at all. I may love someone so much that I would want to marry that person. But I wouldn't want to get married to get married. As in I want to get married, sooner or later I will find someone who fits the bill but mostly I want to get married. That's a bit like 'I want to have owned a new car', isn't it?

But anyway, let's not have a debate that's not helping the OP.

I'm not saying these 'irrational' things should be cast aside. Love is not a very rational thing is it? But love doesn't seem to be the problem here it seems.

I'm saying the problem should also be looked at from a rational angle to form a correct decision.

seenitall

Boskowski wrote: »

So is it all that much that a marriage adds to a relationship, especially when one of them is not ready? Is whatever it adds worth breaking everything off when she admits herself the relationship is good and she is confident about her fellas love?

Yes, of course. It is absolutely worth breaking off, when the person you are with doesn't want the same things in life as you nor envisages the same future. In that case it is all bound to end in heartbreak anyway. (Now you may say he is just "not ready", but the woman is 33 and has no time for long-term dilly-dallying and putting these things off if she really wants them in her life. Which the boyfriend is well aware of and is making conciliatory noises - I hope he comes good for her, but I have my doubts unfortunately.)

The OP is NOT so confident about her fella's love as not to question his commitment around a very important step in life. Otherwise there would be no thread.

Boskowski

sunflower27 wrote: »

She wants to get married. It's not rocket science and nor is there any point weighing up what it means to everyone else.

I really don't see the point in questioning society as a whole and what marriage means. She couldn't have been more clear about what she she would like from her partner.

So what you're saying is marry me or else? Wow.

Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? Don't you need someone you love before you're considering marriage? So if that marriage is not going to happen any time soon - albeit love being there, see OP - you're going to throw away love in order to get married somewhere else sooner? Does that really make sense to you?

seenitall

Boskowski wrote: »

So what you're saying is marry me or else? Wow.

Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? Don't you need someone you love before you're considering marriage? So if that marriage is not going to happen any time soon - albeit love being there, see OP - you're going to throw away love in order to get married somewhere else sooner? Does that really make sense to you?

It makes as much sense as sitting in a situation where one's wishes and goals in a relationship are not being fulfilled.

Boskowski

That may well be the case and that's fine. I merely made a suggestion.

Anyway, I reckon having a debate on our personal viewpoints is not very helpful to the op and is usually frowned upon here. So I'm bowing out, I've had my say.

I am a friend

The issue that is irritating me here and it’s such a common theme in so many threads is that there are so many guys out there who just want to have their cake and eat it. They are with decent and nice girls and are playing God with these girls desires to settle down and / or have kids by not telling them what they want in their future.

I am not saying everyone should get married and have kids but FFS if your gf of X number of years is telling you she wants to get married and have kids (with you), either sh!t or get off the pot and he honest about what you want but don’t keep her hanging for years. OP, you need to think why you are good enough for him to live with but not marry. He is playing you here, not because of the proposal (or lack thereof) but because he won’t man up and give you an honest answer about your future…

I would give him max 2 months to tell you his plans or else bugger off. It’s not about the actual engagement but it’s about his lack of respect for you – he is playing games and leading you on by not being frank with you. Are you happy to settle for that?

Chucky the tree

I am a friend wrote: »

The issue that is irritating me here and it’s such a common theme in so many threads is that there are so many guys out there who just want to have their cake and eat it. They are with decent and nice girls and are playing God with these girls desires to settle down and / or have kids by not telling them what they want in their future.

I am not saying everyone should get married and have kids but FFS if your gf of X number of years is telling you she wants to get married and have kids (with you), either sh!t or get off the pot and he honest about what you want but don’t keep her hanging for years. OP, you need to think why you are good enough for him to live with but not marry. He is playing you here, not because of the proposal (or lack thereof) but because he won’t man up and give you an honest answer about your future…

I would give him max 2 months to tell you his plans or else bugger off. It’s not about the actual engagement but it’s about his lack of respect for you – he is playing games and leading you on by not being frank with you. Are you happy to settle for that?

Seems he has made his point pretty clearly.

neverthebride wrote: »

but he doesn't see marriage any time soon

seenitall

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Seems he has made his point pretty clearly.

Exactly. BUT is now going back on it (if you read the OP's last post), using the old "marriage, houses, babies - some day not too far off..." chat in order to keep the girl hanging. Considering she loves him and it would for that reason most likely be very difficult for her to leave him even if he weren't spinning tales, his behaviour is most reprehensible IMO.

Chucky the tree

seenitall wrote: »

Exactly. BUT is now going back on it (if you read the OP's last post), using the old "marriage, houses, babies - some day not too far off..." chat in order to keep the girl hanging. Considering she loves him and it would for that reason most likely be very difficult for her to leave him even if he weren't spinning tales, his behaviour is most reprehensible IMO.

reprehensible? Oh please. He only started mention kids are the OP has tried to guilt him into changing his views by making read this thread and the replies. The guy had made it clear he didn't see marraige/kids in his future until a good bit away. Either the OP should have accepted that and moved on or else called it off, not guilt him into proposing. "Look, the people on the internet thing your wrong and out of order".

She says she loves him, but does she really? She seems to love the idea of getting married more then her boyfriend tbh. The BF has made it clear when he stands, OP doesn't seem have to accept this though and wants to change him. The only one acting reprehensilbe in all this is the OP.

I am a friend

neverthebride wrote: »

Anyways, we've had a talk and made up since but the whole proposal thing has been left up in the air really. I didn't want to bring it up anymore and end up rowing again so I left it and he hasn't mentioned anymore about it since. Having said that he does seem to be making a big effort since we made up and is all talk about the future and houses and when we have kids etc so he is committed. I guess that's enough.

If its enough for you then thats fine... I would not waste much more time on him though. Talk is cheap.

seenitall

Chucky the tree wrote: »

reprehensible? Oh please. He only started mention kids are the OP has tried to guilt him into changing his views by making read this thread and the replies. The guy had made it clear he didn't see marraige/kids in his future until a good bit away. Either the OP should have accepted that and moved on or else called it off, not guilt him into proposing. "Look, the people on the internet thing your wrong and out of order".

She says she loves him, but does she really? She seems to love the idea of getting married more then her boyfriend tbh. The BF has made it clear when he stands, OP doesn't seem have to accept this though and wants to change him. The only one acting reprehensilbe in all this is the OP.

Is this a wind-up, or are some men really this self-absorbed? :mad:

It is NOT reprehensible that the guy, after saying he doesn't want to get married, and after his g/f puts him on the spot about it, suddenly changes his tune in order to keep her around. Right. Dishonesty and manipulation are NOT reprehensible, in fact they seem to be all the rage with some men these days. In the meantime, this messed-about woman's time is slipping away...

Chucky the tree

seenitall wrote: »

Is this a wind-up, or are some men really this self-absorbed? :mad:

It is NOT reprehensible that the guy, after saying he doesn't want to get married, and after his g/f puts him on the spot about it, suddenly changes his tune in order to keep her around. Right. Dishonesty and manipulation are NOT reprehensible, in fact they seem to be all the rage with some men these days. In the meantime, this messed-about woman's time is slipping away...

He never changed his tune. He originally said marriage was some time off and never said he would never get married, he hasn't turned around to the OP and said he will get now get married within a year and have kids either. It's clear the BF see's marraige in their future sometime.

Having said that he does seem to be making a big effort since we made up and is all talk about the future and houses and when we have kids etc so he is committed. I guess that's enough.

He's just mentioning it more often. Maybe he's reassuring the OP that he does want this to happen, just not for awhile which is what he has always maintained. Tbh you seem to have men issues which is probably clouding your judgment on the issue. The women was never messed about.

seenitall

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He never changed his tune. He originally said marriage was some time off and never said he would never get married, he hasn't turned around to the OP and said he will get now get married within a year and have kids either. It's clear the BF see's marraige in their future sometime.



He's just mentioning it more often. Maybe he's reassuring the OP that he does want this to happen, just not for awhile which is what he has always maintained. Tbh you seem to have men issues which is probably clouding your judgment on the issue. The women was never messed about.

Alas, Chucky, you've seen right through me; I do have "men issues", namely the "dishonest men issues"!

If you read the OP's post again, you will see that what he is doing is manipulating the OP into staying with him with no definitive answer for her on the horizon. He is perfectly aware that this is what she wants, but instead of telling her: "Look, it's not gonna happen for at least another 3/5/10 years so forget about it, or go and find someone else if you are in that much of a hurry", he is doing the old "houses, babies, someday" spiel now that it is crunch time for her. Why? Because he wants to keep her sweet without giving her the option to appraise the exact nature of the rough deal she is getting. So, just because she loves him (I don't see why else she would still be with a head-wrecker such as that), she is staying in the situation she is unhappy about. Thinking he is "committed". This guy is no slouch at getting his way, quite unlike the OP, unfortunately.

BTW, I did indicate in my first post on here that the OP carries part of the responsibility for this mess on her shoulders. She should be able to see through what is happening and act in her own best interests while she is still young enough to be able to find someone who will gladly share her values and plans for the future. Everyone is responsible for their own happiness, it goes without saying. It is precisely love between two incompatible people that can complicate matters so much, in cases such as this (with the help of some delusion/manipulation thrown in).

tl;dr; The OP is most definitely being messed about!

Chucky the tree

seenitall wrote: »

Alas, Chucky, you've seen right through me; I do have "men issues", namely the "dishonest men issues"!

If you read the OP's post again, you will see that what he is doing is manipulating the OP into staying with him with no definitive answer for her on the horizon. He is perfectly aware that this is what she wants, but instead of telling her: "Look, it's not gonna happen for at least another 3/5/10 years so forget about it, or go and find someone else if you are in that much of a hurry", he is doing the old "houses, babies, someday" spiel now that it is crunch time for her. Why? Because he wants to keep her sweet without giving her the option to appraise the exact nature of the rough deal she is getting. So, just because she loves him (I don't see why else she would still be with a head-wrecker such as that), she is staying in the situation she is unhappy about. Thinking he is "committed". This guy is no slouch at getting his way, quite unlike the OP, unfortunately.

BTW, I did indicate in my first post on here that the OP carries part of the responsibility for this mess on her shoulders. She should be able to see through what is happening and act in her own best interests while she is still young enough to be able to find someone who will gladly share her values and plans for the future. Everyone is responsible for their own happiness, it goes without saying. It is precisely love between two incompatible people that can complicate matters so much, in cases such as this (with the help of some delusion/manipulation thrown in).

Everyone has dishonest people issues. Tarring all men with a big giant dishonesty brush isn't a very good idea.

Male or Female it's a pretty difficult question to answer if you have no immediate desire to get married or have kids. The guy has made it clear he doesn't want it now and he won't in the immediate future. Do you really expect him to give her an exact time down to the month? He is giving her the spiel to probably stop her from throwing the toys out of the pram again. First they get into a fight about the proposal, he makes it clear he was drunk and it didn't mean anything and he has no interest in marriage for the forseeable future. To me that is being pretty clear about the situation. The bf clearly communicated his position, the OP didn't find his answer acceptable so pushed him further in an attempt to change the BF's opinion.

seenitall

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Everyone has dishonest people issues. Tarring all men with a big giant dishonesty brush isn't a very good idea.

Male or Female it's a pretty difficult question to answer if you have no immediate desire to get married or have kids. The guy has made it clear he doesn't want it now and he won't in the immediate future. Do you really expect him to give her an exact time down to the month? He is giving her the spiel to probably stop her from throwing the toys out of the pram again. First they get into a fight about the proposal, he makes it clear he was drunk and it didn't mean anything and he has no interest in marriage for the forseeable future. To me that is being pretty clear about the situation. The bf clearly communicated his position, the OP didn't find his answer acceptable so pushed him further in an attempt to change the BF's opinion.

Eh? When did I ever use the term "all men", least of all tarred them with the same brush..?

As for the rest of your post, I will refrain from responding as it is a lovely day outside and am going for a nice walk instead , however I did bold the bit that I feel fully encapsulates your understanding of the OP's issue.

I am a friend

The bottom line is that he has not given any firm committment and its now up to the OP if she wants to hang around indefinitely... I wouldnt. It is true to say though that she now knows its not happening any time soon so thats her own problem if she chooses to stay.

Chucky the tree

seenitall wrote: »

Eh? When did I ever use the term "all men", least of all tarred them with the same brush..?

As for the rest of your post, I will refrain from responding as it is a lovely day outside and am going for a nice walk instead , however I did bold the bit that I feel fully encapsulates your understanding of the OP's issue.

Sorry, mis-read that you didn't say all men. Good, glad we agree on the OP's issue then.

sunflower27 wrote: »

Hang on, the bf isn't going to get off scott-free here. Let's stop painting the picture that he is the poor bastard having to deal with a nuerotic gf.

Is it any wonder the gf is hurt... he told her mother he was going to propose to her and then just dismisses it as if it meant absolutely nothing.

He has said he doesnt want to get married now, but I think he could give her some kind of timeframe.... 3 years, 5 years. I think the fact he has not done this anyway is quite telling. I mean after the fight about the 'proposal talk' with the mum. If he did want to marry this woman, after this time, he should have an idea of a timeframe.

I never said he was a saint or not in the wrong, but he certainly not acted reprehensibly. He shouldn't have said anything to the mother.

I think it's hard to give a time frame on marragie. I think it would be a lot worse of the BF if he gave her a number and then it got to that stage and he still wasn't ready. The best he can probably do is give her a minimum.

Chucky the tree

sunflower27 wrote: »

No, what is worse is telling his gf's mum he was going to propose and then shrugging it off as a trivial thing. I am not sure if you are registering quite how heartless that was.

Probably because I don't see it as something so heartless.

seenitall

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Sorry, mis-read that you didn't say all men. Good, glad we agree on the OP's issue then.

:D Funneh, funneh!

ongarboy

OP, a lot of posters here are making your BF out to be a heartless b**tard. The only offence I think he may have committed was making a statement about proposing when he had a few drinks on him but didn't follow up on it while sober. Haven't we all said and promised things when intoxicated that we didn't follow up on? He shouldn't have come out with that but that's as far as what I consider to be his fault in this dilemma. I'm also not going to criticise your mother or tell you to have it out with her as it seems for her, it was just a case of misreading the situation which we have all been guilty of from time to time.

Your BF is entitled to not want to consider marrying the same way you are entitled to say Yes or No to him if he did propose. If this set up does not suit you, then you need to consider is this relationship right for you and whether you are able to tolerate a partnership that does not involve marriage in the forseable future. As someone else also suggested, you could consider proposing to him.

For me, open communication and dialogue is a far more important attribute of a successful relationship then engagements, weddings and marriage. Why not have a frank and open discussion with your BF and discuss what you both want now and in the future. If he says he'll propose "sometime" and that is not good enough for you, then make it clear. I'm sure you also do not want him proposing to you just to keep you happy or quiet (even if you knew it was not something he instinctively wanted). You can then decide how to or whether to proceed with the relationship on the back of this communication.

LegacyUser

Hey,OP here. Thanks everyone for your input even though I'm kinda still at a loss of what to think coz I seem to agree with all of you!!!

Firstly, I know actions speak louder than words and when I said he has been all about the future and buying a house etc lately,in fairness to him it has not just been idle words, he has actually gone and seen about applying for a mortgage and been looking into different things to secure our future together so I am sure he is committed to me long-term. Believe me I'm not some silly little girl who's going to be fobbed off by meaningless "marriage houses babies spiel" as some posters have put it.

Also some early posters suggested I was being disloyal by "taking my mother's word over my boyfriend's" and that's not really how it was. When I say my mam knew it wasn't just drunk-talk like he claimed, I mean she's not stupid. We all know drunk-talk when we hear it but in this case it was detailed and well-thought out. It wasn't just something he came up with on the spur of the moment under the influence because he had had every little detail considered and planned intricately. If you knew my bf you'd know he would certainly not be capable of that level of thinking after a few pints!!!!

Anyways,just wanted to clarify those few things. I've kinda resigned myself to the situation, getting the house aspect sorted out first, then the babies coz I'm on a loudly ticking clock here, and probably then when we have all our ducks in a row marriage will be the last thing to sort. We are not financially settled at the mo and I know that troubles him too coz he feels he should be able to provide for his family so i'm trying to back off a bit. Realistically,the house issue needs to be sorted first out of pure necessity,the babies need to be planned then before I get too old so I can see the point that we can get married at any time,it's not as urgent as the other two.

Having said all that though, I still agree with those of you who said that it was heartless and he should never have opened his mouth about something so serious if he wasn't 100%. I think I'll always be a little bitter over that no matter what happens. That's the eight year old girl in me who always dreamed of the perfect romantic proposal and white wedding! Real life's a bit different though, eh?!!!

mollybird

Heh OP. soo sorry you having all this stuff going on with you OH at the min. but your not alone. i'm going through something very simialar. waiting for the proposal. now he hasn't said to my parents he wants to do it or anything but it has been discussed. we are both 32 this year and like you it's that time of our lives where we should be moving onto the next level.

a bit different than you i'm giving him till end of summer to pop the question or i'm gone. i agree with what some of the other posters have said. we should not let the men dictate our relationship. it should be very equal. i decided to stay in ireland (where i'm finding it very hard to find work in my field) once i finised my degree last summer so we could be together and make a future and gave up the oppurtunity to find work in canada or austraila. now it's his time to put some commitment into the relationship but i'm still waiting. you said he is doing stuff to get a house sorted, that is a good step all right. just on the safe side maybe make a plan for yourself on what to do if your not happy. i think in the end it may make the break that some bit easier.

anyhow best of luck with it all. hope it works out the way you want it to.