Nama Board to get pay increase after 3 months

anymore

The Irish Independent is carrying a story NAMA board members have received a hike in salary -- despite being less than three months in the job. .http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/nama-board-get-pay-increase-of-up-to-70pc-2096957.html
As an example, according to Indo, former boss of the Revenue Commissioners, Frank Daly will get an increase in salary from € 100,000 to € 170,000 and the reason for the increase is apparently an increase in work load !
I don't know if there is another example of people receiving such extraordinary increases after such a short period in office. Mr Daly will of course be receiving what I assume is a generous defined benefits pension as former head of the Revenue.
Perhaps Mr Cowen will be able to explain this rise at a time when so many are on the dole or in receipt of cuts. It will be interesting to see the reaction of PS union bosses.

ei.sdraob

it begins

oh dear I better put "i told you so" in my signature

Liam Byrne

Sickening. A 70% pay rise ? Or maybe FF view it as a "discount" ?

The most sickening thing, however, is that I'm not surprised. I'd expect this sort of crap from FF re any of their appointees at this stage.

I wonder will they still suggest that NAMA will make a "profit" ?

anymore

Well I suppose it is possible that it was intended that that automatic salary increase would kick in once the process was up and running, but it is an unusual story that has the potential to portray the Government as ' asses'.

ei.sdraob

anymore wrote: »

but it is an unusual story that has the potential to portray the Government as ' asses'.

its astounding to think that no matter how badly FF mess up

they are still in power

there's no punishment for failure at all at all

SeanW

anymore wrote: »

the potential to portray the Government as 'asses'.

Like they need much help at that.

Cuddlesworth

Its possible he hard-balled them into the payrise. Its three months into the largest financial project this country has ever had, the head guy leaving would ruin it. Plus our politicians are a bunch of spineless weasels who would bend over at the slightest sign of actual work.

Tabnabs

I just read this story over on breakingnews.ie and I'm incensed! 100k to 170k, it totally beggars belief :mad:

Dublin Hibby

A pay rise, for someone affiliated to Finna Fail, cant be true. Bottom feeders such as i will just have to "lube up" a little bit more.

Time to start a Greece style response to these fraudulent thiefs.

97i9y3941

Expect the "because they are entitled to it and my hands are tied so i can’t reverse it" line from the gov...

Taxipete29

Unions and their members are demonised for not wanting to accept paycuts yet this is allowed to go on :rolleyes:

The only way to get this country back on track is to get rid of FF and their failed policies and crony capitalism

whynotwhycanti

I guess its time for us to drop our pants and bend over. This is bullsiht but am i really surprised, no of course not. I think we will be hearing alot more of these stories.

sirromo

I fully support the decision to give the NAMA people a pay rise. High salaries need to be offered to attract and retain intelligent and experienced people. The success of NAMA is far too important for us to risk not having the most talented people in the country at the helm of the ship.

Taxipete29

sirromo wrote: »

I fully support the decision to give the NAMA people a pay rise. High salaries need to be offered to attract and retain intelligent and experienced people. The success of NAMA is far too important for us to risk not having the most talented people in the country at the helm of the ship.

I assume this is a level?? If its not please define "the most talented"??

whynotwhycanti

sirromo wrote: »

I fully support the decision to give the NAMA people a pay rise. High salaries need to be offered to attract and retain intelligent and experienced people. The success of NAMA is far too important for us to risk not having the most talented people in the country at the helm of the ship.

Good one, i needed a laugh.

But if you are serious, were we not paying all these talented, intelligient people a very high salary in the first place who steered this ship into the mother of all icebergs.

ei.sdraob

sirromo wrote: »

I fully support the decision to give the NAMA people a pay rise. High salaries need to be offered to attract and retain intelligent and experienced people. The success of NAMA is far too important for us to risk not having the most talented people in the country at the helm of the ship.

you can have the most talented and well paid people

but the project can still fail if its based on a false premise

just think of Chelsea football club over last few years

anymore

sirromo wrote: »

I fully support the decision to give the NAMA people a pay rise. High salaries need to be offered to attract and retain intelligent and experienced people. The success of NAMA is far too important for us to risk not having the most talented people in the country at the helm of the ship.

You will be both pleased and reassured to know that the board has a former director of Bank of Ireland on it as well.

ei.sdraob

anymore wrote: »

You will be both pleased and reassured to know that the board has a former director of Bank of Ireland on it as well.

what could possibly go wrong

sirromo

Taxipete29 wrote:

I assume this is a level?? If its not please define "the most talented"??

The most qualified, intelligent and experienced people in their field. They're the kind of people who would normally be paid massive salaries by the private sector.

whynotwhycanti wrote:

But if you are serious, were we not paying all these talented, intelligient people a very high salary in the first place who steered this ship into the mother of all icebergs.

It's very simple, we're about to make a massive financial gamble on a venture that is not guaranteed to succeed. The question is whether the venture stands a better chance of success if it is run by the most able and most highly paid people from the private sector or if it isn't run by the most able and most highly paid people from the private sector. I go with the former and that's why I can understand and support these pay rises.

ei.sdraob wrote:

you can have the most talented and well paid people

but the project can still fail if its based on a false premise

That's an argument against NAMA rather than an argument against the pay rises of the NAMA staff.

anymore wrote:

You will be both pleased and reassured to know that the board has a former director of Bank of Ireland on it as well.

Would you rather the board of NAMA didn't have any former directors of major banks on it's board? Do you not think they bring valuable experience?

ei.sdraob

sirromo wrote: »

That's an argument against NAMA rather than an argument against the pay rises of the NAMA staff.

yes it is

if the project is based on false requirements or unachievable aims

it will fail, no matter how good the people involved are

happens all the time in project management

Liam Byrne

sirromo wrote: »

I fully support the decision to give the NAMA people a pay rise. High salaries need to be offered to attract and retain intelligent and experienced people. The success of NAMA is far too important for us to risk not having the most talented people in the country at the helm of the ship.

Leaving aside a debate on the level of "talent" he actually has, this could possibly be a valid point; were it not for the fact that the guy had already accepted the job at €100,000 a year.

So the ADDITIONAL €70,000 was not required in order to attract him.

And saying "I'll stop working / leave if you don't pay me more" is precisely what the Government are demanding everyone else does. Why should Daly be any different ?

sirromo

Liam Byrne wrote:

Leaving aside a debate on the level of "talent" he actually has, this could possibly be a valid point; were it not for the fact that the guy had already accepted the job at €100,000 a year.

So the ADDITIONAL €70,000 was not required in order to attract him.

It's not required to attract him to the job but it might be required to retain him in the position. If he already accepted and was secure and content in the position then the government would not have bothered wasting money on pay rises.

Liam Byrne wrote:

And saying "I'll stop working / leave if you don't pay me more" is precisely what the Government are demanding everyone else does. Why should Daly be any different ?

He's different because he's part of the very small handful of people in this country with the expertise and the experience to make a success out of NAMA.

whynotwhycanti

sirromo wrote: »

He's different because he's part of the very small handful of people in this country with the expertise and the experience to make a success out of NAMA.

How do you know that? How can you be sure? Nama could be an absolute failure and this guy may not be up for the task. You are basing it on the fact that these guys, albeit with expensive salaries, have what it takes to make NAMA successful. I will reiterate my previous point, didn't we have the best of the best, getting paid very good salaries, in the positions that oversaw this whole disaster. Sometimes you don't get what you pay for and there is no proof out there that says these guys are worth every penny. Its the age old arguement used by lobbyists, sure who else could do his job, he is worth every penny. I never see anything to back up these claims, its just empty rhetoric.

whynotwhycanti

sirromo wrote: »

Would you rather the board of NAMA didn't have any former directors of major banks on it's board? Do you not think they bring valuable experience?

Sorry are these the guys that oversaw the financial crisis in Ireland and made our banks bankrupt. The only real experience i believe they have is in self-interest. They caused banks to become bankrupt, and one of them is now on the board of NAMA to oversee the banks bail out by taxpayers money. By the end of this these directors will know exactly how to bankrupt a bank and then using taxpayers money make it competitive again. What a great list of skills. Worth every penny in my eyes. I would prefer independent, foreign economists to come in. Too much back scratching and vested interested among the elite in this country.

Liam Byrne

sirromo wrote: »

It's not required to attract him to the job but it might be required to retain him in the position. If he already accepted and was secure and content in the position then the government would not have bothered wasting money on pay rises.

Sorry - did I read that right ? You reckon the Government actually make decisions on money based on "value for money" and whether or not it's "wasted" ?

I could list off a page of things here - covering expenses to O'Dea payoffs to Bertie Bowl and eVoting that completely dictates otherwise, and that's not even mentioning the payoffs to people who didn't even bother doing their jobs.

So there's no basis in fact or track records to say that this Government wouldn't waste money, especially when it involves one of their appointees.

sirromo wrote: »

He's different because he's part of the very small handful of people in this country with the expertise and the experience to make a success out of NAMA.

He could be a genius and I don't think he could "make a success out of NAMA".

But that's a whole other debate....this is about a pay rise that the country cannot afford, at a time where people are unemployed - €70,000 would pay 3 people's wages, if you factor in what they're going to receive on the dole - and where people are being told "tough, we're going to pay you less and there's no point in striking".

Sickening, wrong, unethical and typical of this Government :mad:

sirromo

whynotwhycanti wrote:

didn't we have the best of the best, getting paid very good salaries, in the positions that oversaw this whole disaster.

Would they have behaved more responsibly if they had been paid the minimum wage?

whynotwhycanti wrote:

Sometimes you don't get what you pay for and there is no proof out there that says these guys are worth every penny. Its the age old arguement used by lobbyists, sure who else could do his job, he is worth every penny. I never see anything to back up these claims, its just empty rhetoric.

There's no guarantee that paying high salaries will attract the best people. The success of NAMA is far too important for us to take a chance on this though. We need the best people running the operation and if that means paying massive salaries then that's just what we'll have to do.

whynotwhycanti wrote:

Sorry are these the guys that oversaw the financial crisis in Ireland and made our banks bankrupt.

Yes, I think these people would have a valuable insight into the operation of the Irish banking system and for that reason they should play a role in helping to fix the banking system. Just as the police regularly enlist the services of former con-men and hackers, I think NAMA should be prepared to enlist the services of former bankers.

whynotwhycanti wrote:

The only real experience i believe they have is in self-interest.They caused banks to become bankrupt, and one of them is now on the board of NAMA to oversee the banks bail out by taxpayers money. By the end of this these directors will know exactly how to bankrupt a bank and then using taxpayers money make it competitive again. What a great list of skills. Worth every penny in my eyes.

That's a bit harsh. Most bankers have provided good service to our economy and many of them are genuinely remorseful about the role the banks have played in our collapse. I think they should be given the chance to redeem themselves by helping us to restore stability and get credit flowing again.

Liam Byrne wrote:

Sorry - did I read that right ? You reckon the Government actually make decisions on money based on "value for money" and whether or not it's "wasted" ?

Yes, I think the government makes decisions based on what they believe the media and the public reaction will be. If the government gives a massive pay-rise to an already highly-paid group of people then I would assume that they must have been aware of the potential for a popular backlash. That's why I'm assuming that the government had a good reason for giving this pay-rise.

Liam Byrne wrote:

this is about a pay rise that the country cannot afford, at a time where people are unemployed - €70,000 would pay 3 people's wages, if you factor in what they're going to receive on the dole - and where people are being told "tough, we're going to pay you less and there's no point in striking".

Oh please!

Liam Byrne wrote:

Sickening, wrong, unethical and typical of this Government

There's nothing unethical about doing everything possible to make a success of a venture that you deem to be critically important to the future of your country's economy.

Which would you prefer, a government that made popular decisions that they didn't believe to be in the national interest or unpopular ones that they did believe to be in our national interest? The former type of government got us into the mess we're in now, the latter type will get us out of it.

fontanalis

sirromo wrote: »

I fully support the decision to give the NAMA people a pay rise. High salaries need to be offered to attract and retain intelligent and experienced people. The success of NAMA is far too important for us to risk not having the most talented people in the country at the helm of the ship.

It's worked in the past, if it's not broken bust it til it's unrecognisable.

Liam Byrne

sirromo wrote: »

If the government gives a massive pay-rise to an already highly-paid group of people then I would assume that they must have been aware of the potential for a popular backlash. That's why I'm assuming that the government had a good reason for giving this pay-rise.

Under normal circumstances I might believe you, but the "vote of confidence" in O'Dea, etc, proves that they don't give a crap about "popular backlash" or "doing the right thing".

sirromo wrote: »

Oh please!

What does this mean ? What I said was perfectly true and valid, and if someone is getting €100,000 a year for a part-time job then that's plenty. If someone said otherwise I could say "Oh please!" too, but that wouldn't add to the discussion.

sirromo wrote: »

Which would you prefer, a government that made popular decisions that they didn't believe to be in the national interest or unpopular ones that they did believe to be in our national interest? The former type of government got us into the mess we're in now, the latter type will get us out of it.

The old "necessary unpopular decisions are why we're hated" comment rehashed. :rolleyes:

It's unpopular, true. And it's wrong.

And btw, why the distinction between "former" and "latter" ? It's the same Government, and they're still wasting money and doing the wrong things.

BTW, if someone wants to give me €100,000 for a part-time job I'll gladly accept it, and I won't get sickeningly greedy and demand an extra €70,000 a year for doing what I've already agreed to do for the €100,000.

It's sickening......they pay off people who don't do their jobs because "it's in their contract", and then they turn around and unjustifiably change the contracts of people without any issues.....and in both cases we get shafted and screwed; in both cases it costs us extra money.

Go figure!

walshb

I haven't read all the posts relating to this thread, but I am betting someone has posted the lame and pathetic excuse, "You have to pay loads to get the best."

SkepticOne

Anyone who is going to be involved in NAMA, once they fully realise the scam that it is and that the finger is going to be pointed at them when it fails, is going to want a lot of compensation. It may not have been fully apparent to them when they first accepted the job. I think the legislation makes them immune from legal proceedings but there's still the likes of tribunals and media scrutiny.

whynotwhycanti

sirromo wrote: »

There's no guarantee that paying high salaries will attract the best people. The success of NAMA is far too important for us to take a chance on this though. We need the best people running the operation and if that means paying massive salaries then that's just what we'll have to do.




Yes, I think these people would have a valuable insight into the operation of the Irish banking system and for that reason they should play a role in helping to fix the banking system. Just as the police regularly enlist the services of former con-men and hackers, I think NAMA should be prepared to enlist the services of former bankers.




That's a bit harsh. Most bankers have provided good service to our economy and many of them are genuinely remorseful about the role the banks have played in our collapse. I think they should be given the chance to redeem themselves by helping us to restore stability and get credit flowing again.




.

Yes the police do use former criminals, informants etc but do not pay them 170,000 per annum for part time work. Yes, i just heard on the radio that the position in question is not even a full time job but part time. Throw in aswell that he is already on a state pention and it could make you physically sick. This is not the former bank of ireland executive i am referring to.

I don't group all bankers together, just like i don't group all developers together. I have plenty of friends and several siblings who are bankers. I have an issue with the executives in these banks, one of which is on the board of NAMA. This exectuive has already shown his utter incompetence and i for one do not want to see it again. You say some of these bankers are trying to redeem themselves. I believe it is only the banker on the street who feels ashamed, these big fish executives have acumulated massive wealth in the last ten years and something tells me they can live with the guilt and shame.