Unicef Confirms 0% Child Malnutrition in Cuba

Rossibaby

Apologies about punctuation, its a copy and paste from the website.

This is a wonderful achievement for Cuba, its leaders and its people and it's great to see a reputable organisation like Unicef acknowledge this excellent work.

UNICEF confirms that Cuba is the only country in Latin America and the Caribbean that child malnutrition has been eliminated.


The existence in the developing world 146 million children under five underweight, contrasts with the reality of Cuban infants, recognized worldwide for being outside the social evil.
These alarming figures emerged in a recent report by the United Nations Fund for Children (UNICEF), entitled Progress for Children, A Report Card on Nutrition, released at UN headquarters.
According to the document, the percentage of underweight children are 28 percent in Sub-Saharan Africa, 17 in Middle East and North Africa, 15 in East Asia and the Pacific and seven in Latin America and the Caribbean.
The complete table of Central and Eastern Europe, with five percent, and other developing countries, with 27 percent.
Cuba has no such problems, is the only country in Latin America and the Caribbean that has eliminated severe child malnutrition, thanks to government efforts to improve the diet of the people, especially those most vulnerable.
The harsh realities of the world show that 852 million people suffer from hunger and that 53 million live in Latin America. Only in Mexico there are five million 200 thousand people malnourished and in Haiti, three million 800 thousand, while across the globe die of hunger every year more than five million children.
According to United Nations estimates, it would be very costly to achieve basic health and nutrition for all people in the Third World.
Suffice to meet this target of 13 billion dollars a year additional to what is intended now, a figure that has never been achieved and that is meager when compared with the trillion spent each year on commercial advertising, over 400 thousand million in narcotic drugs or even eight billion spent on cosmetics in the United States.
To the delight of Cuba, the United Nations Organization for Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) has also acknowledged that it is the nation with more progress in Latin America in the fight against malnutrition.
The Cuban state guarantees basic food basket that allows the nutrition of its population? “At least at basic levels-through the distribution of regulated products.
Similarly, adjustments are made cheap in other markets and local services to improve the nutrition of the Cuban people and to mitigate the food shortage.
Especially keeps a constant watch on the livelihoods of children, and adolescents. Thus, attention to nutrition begins with the promotion of better nutrition and natural way of human kind.
From the earliest days of age the incalculable benefits of breastfeeding justify all the efforts made in Cuba for health and development of their children.


This has enabled it to raise the percentage of newborns who remain until the fourth month of life, exclusive breastfeeding and even continue to consume milk, supplemented with other foods until six months old.
Currently, 99 percent of newborns maternity leavers with exclusive breastfeeding than the proposed goal, which is 95 percent, according to official data, which indicates that all provinces to meet this target.
Despite the difficult economic conditions traversed by the Island, ensuring food and nutrition of infants through daily delivery of a liter of fluid milk to all children from zero to seven years old.
Adding to this the delivery of other foods, eg jams, juices and meats, which, depending on the available funds in the country, distributed equally across the ages smaller children.
Until the age of 13 prioritizes the subsidized distribution of complementary products such as soy yogurt and natural disaster situations protects children by providing free food staples.
The child-care centers incorporated into the (nursery) and primary schools are FULL TIME regime also benefit from the continuing effort to improve their diets in terms of dietary components and milk protein.
With the support of agricultural production-even in conditions of severe drought, and increased food imports is reached nutrient intake above the standards set by FAO.
In Cuba, this indicator is not adding fictitious average food consumption of the rich and the hungry.
Additionally, the social consumption includes the school lunch that is distributed free to hundreds of thousands of students and education workers, special supplies of food to children through age 15 and people over 60 in the eastern provinces.
On that list are provided for pregnant women, nursing mothers, elderly and disabled, food supplementation for children with low weight and size and food supply to municipalities of Pinar del Rio, Havana and Isla de la Juventud.
These institutions were hit by hurricanes last year, while the provinces of Holguin, Las Tunas and Camaguey five municipalities are currently experiencing drought.
In this effort works the World Food Program (WFP), which contributes to improving the nutritional status of vulnerable populations in the eastern region, where more profit of 631 thousand people.
WFP cooperation with Cuba dating back to 1963 when the agency provided immediate assistance to victims of Hurricane Flora. To date, the country has accomplished in five development projects and 14 emergency operations.
Recently, Cuba went from being a recipient to donor.
The issue of malnutrition looms large in the UN campaign in 2015 to achieve the Millennium Development Goals, adopted at the Summit of Heads of State and Government held in 2000 and which have among their goals to eliminate extreme poverty and hunger by that date.
But the Cubans say that these goals do not take away anyone’s dream, the UN itself puts the country at the forefront of compliance with such challenges in human development.
Not without shortcomings, difficulties and limitations of a serious economic, commercial and financial embargo imposed by the United States more than four decades, Cuba does not show desperate nor alarming rates of child malnutrition.
None of the 146 million children under five underweight living in the world today is Cuban.


http://socyberty.com/issues/unicef-confirms-0-child-malnutrition-in-cuba/

nesf

Ok, I can't see anything on the UNICEF site about this. The best I could find are some stats from 2008 that have the % of Cuban children under 5 who are moderately or severely underweight at 4% (which is still good but on par with the Dominican Republic and other countries).

Pygmalion

nesf wrote: »

Ok, I can't see anything on the UNICEF site about this. The best I could find are some stats from 2008 that have the % of Cuban children under 5 who are moderately or severely underweight at 4% (which is still good but on par with the Dominican Republic and other countries).

This page seems to be it, it does state that 4% suffer from being "moderate or severe"ly underweight by NCHS/Who standards and that 0% are "Severe" by WHO standards (as opposed to 2% for the Dominican Republic).

So I suppose there are still as much hungry kids as there are in the Dominican Republic but that they aren't in as immediate danger.

nesf

Pygmalion wrote: »

This page seems to be it, it does state that 4% suffer from being "moderate or severe"ly underweight by NCHS/Who standards and that 0% are "Severe" by WHO standards (as opposed to 2% for the Dominican Republic).

So I suppose there are still as much hungry kids as there are in the Dominican Republic but that they aren't in as immediate danger.

Does that could as malnutrition conquered though? We still have percentages in the stunting and wasting categories which are pretty bloody serious conditions. I'm assuming that it's the 2009 figures that people are reporting and that UNICEF just haven't updated them on their site yet or something. If sites are using the stats we're talking about to claim 0% Child Malnutrition then they're being extremely disingenuous. Cuba is doing very well but you can hardly say a country with 2% wasting and 5% stunting has eliminated child malnutrition in the country.


It's odd that there's no official press release on the UNICEF site about this.

Permabear

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The Saint

donegalfella wrote: »

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Do you have an English source for this? It seems, from my limited understanding of Spanish, that it was the General Assembly that made this declaration. Not exactly the UN now is it?

Permabear

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Rossibaby

donegalfella wrote: »

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Well it seems many,many countries disagree with you. Although I'm sure America and Israel agree with you so you're in good company.

Wow Castro killed thousands, you do know he was involved in a revolution against a US puppet dictator? Just so we are clear on that, I'm sure most people know about the Cuban revolution no need for the hysterics.
Castro and the Cuban revolution has greatly ameliorated the lot of normal Cubans, who previously faced massive hardship and deprivation. Cuba also does sterling work with regard to offering aid to other developing countries, specifically the export of doctors. Castro's and the revolution's achievements have been immense and perhaps this is why he is so well regarded by the GA of the UN.

The Saint

donegalfella wrote: »

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OK, well I still haven't found a credible news source for this story. However, I have found this from the UN site:

Question: [inaudible]…there were some reports on Mr. d’Escoto’s last trip that he named Fidel Castro a world hero of solidarity, and Evo Morales a world hero of Mother Earth. Was this a UN award? Was it a Father d’Escoto award? What was it?

Spokesperson: It was his own initiative as the President of the General Assembly.

http://www.un.org/News/briefings/docs/2009/db090911.doc.htm

So it wasn't a UN award. It was an award from the president of the GA on his own initiative I'd imagine this wasn't put to a vote by the GA. The president is also from Venuzuela, a close ally of Cuba and Morales was also given an award.

donegalfella wrote: »

Am I'm mistaken in assuming that the body defined as the "chief deliberative, policymaking and representative organ of the United Nations" has something to do with the United Nations?

I'm perfectly aware of what the GA is and what it does. It is not the entire UN though. It is one institution of the UN and as was shown above the award was given on the initiative of the GA president. If the award was given by the secretary general of the UN then you might have a point.

walshb

Rossibaby wrote: »

Apologies about punctuation, its a copy and paste from the website.

This is a wonderful achievement for Cuba, its leaders and its people and it's great to see a reputable organisation like Unicef acknowledge this excellent work.

UNICEF confirms that Cuba is the only country in Latin America and the Caribbean that child malnutrition has been eliminated.


The existence in the developing world 146 million children under five underweight, contrasts with the reality of Cuban infants, recognized worldwide for being outside the social evil.
These alarming figures emerged in a recent report by the United Nations Fund for Children (UNICEF), entitled Progress for Children, A Report Card on Nutrition, released at UN headquarters.
According to the document, the percentage of underweight children are 28 percent in Sub-Saharan Africa, 17 in Middle East and North Africa, 15 in East Asia and the Pacific and seven in Latin America and the Caribbean.
The complete table of Central and Eastern Europe, with five percent, and other developing countries, with 27 percent.
Cuba has no such problems, is the only country in Latin America and the Caribbean that has eliminated severe child malnutrition, thanks to government efforts to improve the diet of the people, especially those most vulnerable.
The harsh realities of the world show that 852 million people suffer from hunger and that 53 million live in Latin America. Only in Mexico there are five million 200 thousand people malnourished and in Haiti, three million 800 thousand, while across the globe die of hunger every year more than five million children.
According to United Nations estimates, it would be very costly to achieve basic health and nutrition for all people in the Third World.
Suffice to meet this target of 13 billion dollars a year additional to what is intended now, a figure that has never been achieved and that is meager when compared with the trillion spent each year on commercial advertising, over 400 thousand million in narcotic drugs or even eight billion spent on cosmetics in the United States.
To the delight of Cuba, the United Nations Organization for Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) has also acknowledged that it is the nation with more progress in Latin America in the fight against malnutrition.
The Cuban state guarantees basic food basket that allows the nutrition of its population? “At least at basic levels-through the distribution of regulated products.
Similarly, adjustments are made cheap in other markets and local services to improve the nutrition of the Cuban people and to mitigate the food shortage.
Especially keeps a constant watch on the livelihoods of children, and adolescents. Thus, attention to nutrition begins with the promotion of better nutrition and natural way of human kind.
From the earliest days of age the incalculable benefits of breastfeeding justify all the efforts made in Cuba for health and development of their children.


This has enabled it to raise the percentage of newborns who remain until the fourth month of life, exclusive breastfeeding and even continue to consume milk, supplemented with other foods until six months old.
Currently, 99 percent of newborns maternity leavers with exclusive breastfeeding than the proposed goal, which is 95 percent, according to official data, which indicates that all provinces to meet this target.
Despite the difficult economic conditions traversed by the Island, ensuring food and nutrition of infants through daily delivery of a liter of fluid milk to all children from zero to seven years old.
Adding to this the delivery of other foods, eg jams, juices and meats, which, depending on the available funds in the country, distributed equally across the ages smaller children.
Until the age of 13 prioritizes the subsidized distribution of complementary products such as soy yogurt and natural disaster situations protects children by providing free food staples.
The child-care centers incorporated into the (nursery) and primary schools are FULL TIME regime also benefit from the continuing effort to improve their diets in terms of dietary components and milk protein.
With the support of agricultural production-even in conditions of severe drought, and increased food imports is reached nutrient intake above the standards set by FAO.
In Cuba, this indicator is not adding fictitious average food consumption of the rich and the hungry.
Additionally, the social consumption includes the school lunch that is distributed free to hundreds of thousands of students and education workers, special supplies of food to children through age 15 and people over 60 in the eastern provinces.
On that list are provided for pregnant women, nursing mothers, elderly and disabled, food supplementation for children with low weight and size and food supply to municipalities of Pinar del Rio, Havana and Isla de la Juventud.
These institutions were hit by hurricanes last year, while the provinces of Holguin, Las Tunas and Camaguey five municipalities are currently experiencing drought.
In this effort works the World Food Program (WFP), which contributes to improving the nutritional status of vulnerable populations in the eastern region, where more profit of 631 thousand people.
WFP cooperation with Cuba dating back to 1963 when the agency provided immediate assistance to victims of Hurricane Flora. To date, the country has accomplished in five development projects and 14 emergency operations.
Recently, Cuba went from being a recipient to donor.
The issue of malnutrition looms large in the UN campaign in 2015 to achieve the Millennium Development Goals, adopted at the Summit of Heads of State and Government held in 2000 and which have among their goals to eliminate extreme poverty and hunger by that date.
But the Cubans say that these goals do not take away anyone’s dream, the UN itself puts the country at the forefront of compliance with such challenges in human development.
Not without shortcomings, difficulties and limitations of a serious economic, commercial and financial embargo imposed by the United States more than four decades, Cuba does not show desperate nor alarming rates of child malnutrition.
None of the 146 million children under five underweight living in the world today is Cuban.


http://socyberty.com/issues/unicef-confirms-0-child-malnutrition-in-cuba/

Interesting report. I suppose that is one less country (hopefully) that GOAL and Concern and Trocaire won't be out begging for.

Permabear

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Permabear

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Milo

Forbes estimates Comrade Castro's personal wealth at $900 million

Out of interest, what is the breakdown of this wealth that forbes claim he has? Is it personal bank accounts on the Caymens or are they valuing property and the like that he might "own"?

Just curious, I do admire alot of what has been achieved in Cuba under Castro like literacy levels and now this but, as with every government, it has it's downsides, some of which are a little extreme.

dsmythy

donegalfella wrote: »

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As the boatloads of people desperate for Florida attest to.

The Saint

donegalfella wrote: »

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No, you equating a rotating presidency as representing the entire institutional structure is hilarious. If you can't extricate the two then it's your problem. The UN didn't name Castro as "World Hero of Solidarity" as you stated. The president on his own initiative did. He doesn't represent the entire UN. I never said it had nothing to do with the UN but stating that it was a UN award is disingenuous.

aurelius79

donegalfella wrote: »

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Like the Patriot Act? One could argue that Castro imposes these restrictions to ensure the stability of the nation.

donegalfella wrote: »

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The U.S. has executed 1188 people since 1976, 52 executed just this year. Any data as to why people were executed in Cuba, or is the act of state sanctioned execution enough to label Castro's administration a "reign of terror".

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions-year

There were 7.3 million people under corrective supervision (probation, parole, jail, prison) in the U.S. in 2008, up from 1.8 million in 1980.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/tables/corr2tab.cfm

Regardless of personal opinion, Cuba has done remarkably well since the revolution, especially considering the extensive embargo imposed by the U.S. and it's allies.

Castro is not the humanitarian savior that some may try to show him as, but he most definitely is not the tyrant that some try to make him out to be..

aurelius79

dsmythy wrote: »

As the boatloads of people desperate for Florida attest to.

Actually, the vast majority of people trying to enter the U.S. at the moment are Haitians and Dominicans. Anyone who wanted to leave Cuba after the revolution left a long time ago.

Permabear

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The Saint

donegalfella wrote: »

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You seem to be purposely missing the point. The president of the GA bears no relation to the presidency of Ireland or the pope. They're not comparable. The president of the GA does not represent the entire UN. Anyone who thinks it does is wrong. Just because people might beleive it does not make it true. I get the feeling that stating this is pointless since you want to associate this award as being representative of the entire UN. It is not. You can say it is but it does not make it so.

Permabear

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Flamed Diving

Quality stuff.

Soldie

It's quite disturbing that some people will happily defend the regime in Cuba from a position of sheer ignorance. Those who lived behind the Iron Curtain must think we're utterly mad. :rolleyes:

aurelius79

donegalfella wrote: »

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Just as it was after the Irish Civil War, or any other civil war for that matter. Oh, and Cuba is a communist country, where does democracy enter into it?

donegalfella wrote: »

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How many were shot or hanged after the Irish Civil War? It's pretty common practice after any civil conflict.

donegalfella wrote: »

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Cuba ranks 51st out of 182 countries on the 2008 UN Human Development Report, 13th of all developing countries. You seem to forget that all education and health care is free in Cuba. Cubans also receive food subsidies. Housing and transport prices are very low when compared to other countries. The income of the average Cuban can not be used to measure quality of life when you factor in the benefits Cuban citizens receive.

donegalfella wrote: »

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Any evidence to back up these claims? Claims can range from a few hundred into the thousands. It all depends on who you listen to. Amnesty International claims that 216 were executed between 1959-1987.

nesf

aurelius79 wrote: »

Cuba ranks 51st out of 182 countries on the 2008 UN Human Development Report, 13th of all developing countries. You seem to forget that all education and health care is free in Cuba. Cubans also receive food subsidies. Housing and transport prices are very low when compared to other countries. The income of the average Cuban can not be used to measure quality of life when you factor in the benefits Cuban citizens receive.

Cuba used to receive huge amounts of money and material aid from the Soviet Union. Much of its infrastructure was built using this giving it a fair headstart over the majority of other developing countries. Cuba is doing pretty well but they didn't do it alone.

aurelius79

nesf wrote: »

Cuba used to receive huge amounts of money and material aid from the Soviet Union. Much of its infrastructure was built using this giving it a fair headstart over the majority of other developing countries. Cuba is doing pretty well but they didn't do it alone.

You could say that about any modern developing country. China receives vast amounts of money from the U.S. and other nations. Many African countries receive massive amounts of investment and international aid. Israel was built almost entirely on foreign investment. Not to mention the personal wealth of the founders of the Israeli state.

Cuba was used as a battlefield between the USSR and the U.S. for years. After the cold war ended, Cuba was essentially abandoned. The country collapsed but Castro managed to keep it together. Cuba is still subject the a massive U.S. embargo but still manages to survive.

When all this is taken into consideration, it's surprising that Castro managed to survive all of this. I agree that his methods were brutal at times but I believe he had the welfare of the country at heart. This may be why there have been no popular uprisings against Castro.

The Cubans are better off now than they were before the revolution, that is a fact. Yes, life could be a lot better for them. Imagine if the country had been free to trade with the U.S. from the beginning. Imagine if Castro didn't have to spend so much money and time to build an army.

If Cuba hadn't adopted the communist ideology, would we have ever heard or cared about Cuba or Fidel Castro or Che? It would have been just another popular uprising in some Latin American country we had never heard of before. Don't believe me? Look at the Panama "revolution" of 1903. Panama only exists because of U.S. intervention. The revolution in Nicaragua was backed by the U.S.

Flamed Diving

aurelius79 wrote: »

You could say that about any modern developing country.

Somalia? Or is "modern" a suffix to include only countries that fit your needs?

aurelius79 wrote: »

China receives vast amounts of money from the U.S. and other nations.

Yeah, because people buy their products. It's called international trade.

aurelius79 wrote: »

Many African countries receive massive amounts of investment

Who? How much? Oil-producing countries cannot be counted here.

aurelius79 wrote: »

and international aid.

And it seems to be largely ineffective, no? Perhaps this might be something to credit Castro with, making good use of Soviet funding?

aurelius79 wrote: »

Israel was built almost entirely on foreign investment.

International trade again. Not seeing the point.

aurelius79 wrote: »

Not to mention the personal wealth of the founders of the Israeli state.

So? I actually don't see the point to much of what you said, in the context of the discussion.


I'm not up on my Cuba stuff, so I will stop here.

worded

dsmythy wrote: »

As the boatloads of people desperate for Florida attest to.

I was in Cuba for two weeks and I while I had a good holiday, there was an undercurrent of repression.

Doctors were on about 30 dollars a month and cleaners etc were on about 20 dollars PM, would make you study for the extra tenner wouldn’t it! A lot of the families were on the bread line I heard and a huge amount of the natives are on the game servicing tourists. They dance a lot because they is such a rage inside, its the only way they have to vent it as otherwise they would explode. It felt a bit like a human zoo to me and I would never go back. A chicken was for tourists only as it was way beyond the natives reach financially. I heard sometimes people would smuggle chickens out of hotel kitchens for Christmas.

"We need another revolution" is what one Cuban said to me quietly.

I dont believe this zero child malnutrition. People are given bread and food vouchers to attend boring political speech’s etc, perhaps the unders fives are very politically active.

southsiderosie

aurelius79 wrote: »

Actually, the vast majority of people trying to enter the U.S. at the moment are Haitians and Dominicans. Anyone who wanted to leave Cuba after the revolution left a long time ago.

People are desperate to leave Cuba. Every time Fidel opens up the ports (Mariel in 1980; briefly in 1994), thousands of people try to leave - over 120,000 during Mariel alone. Recently the Spanish government announced that those who fled Spain for political reasons in the civil war could apply for citizenship; the next day hundreds of people were lined up in front of the Spanish embassy. I lived in Miami for two years (2004-2006), and there were regular reports of Cubans being caught crossing the Florida Straits. This begs the question, if Castro's Cuba is so great, then why do so many people want to leave? And if the Cuban government is comfortable with their system, then why not allow free movement of their citizens out of the country? Surely if Cubans were happy with the system, they would come back? Right?

People romanticize Castro because he has stuck his thumb in the eye of the U.S. government for over 40 years. And although the US has a horrible history in the region, and there have been significant gains in literacy and poverty reduction in Cuba, let's not pretend that the Castro regime is anything but a brutal dictatorship.

Finally, I think it's funny (and sad) that so many European progressives are so supportive of the Castro regime, yet protest against human rights violations in China. Overall poverty reduction and development in China has been more significant than anywhere else in the world, and there has certainly been massive repression along the way. Yet China is "bad" and Cuba is "good"? Either they are both bad, or, hey, you have to crack a few eggs to make an omlette...

sold

Not surprising, Cuba has some of the best medical care in the world, Lots of trained doctors.

nesf

aurelius79 wrote: »

You could say that about any modern developing country. China receives vast amounts of money from the U.S. and other nations.

You really have no idea what you're talking about here. Seriously.

egan007

I've been to cuba. no children go hungry - but nobody eats decent food

aurelius79

southsiderosie wrote: »

People are desperate to leave Cuba. I lived in Miami for two years (2004-2006), and there were regular reports of Cubans being caught crossing the Florida Straits. This begs the question, if Castro's Cuba is so great, then why do so many people want to leave?

I spent half my life in the U.S. (15 yrs), I grew up there. I left shortly after 9/11. Lots of people people left Ireland in the 80s. What does that say about the government? Well, not a lot really. You can't base opinions on the fact that people migrate.

southsiderosie wrote: »

People romanticize Castro because he has stuck his thumb in the eye of the U.S. government for over 40 years. And although the US has a horrible history in the region, and there have been significant gains in literacy and poverty reduction in Cuba, let's not pretend that the Castro regime is anything but a brutal dictatorship.

I don't think anyone is romanticizing about anything here. People are claiming Castro is some evil tyrant and his people are so oppressed. I'm simply stating facts that Cuba has grown considerably since the revolution even under such a "brutal dictatorship" and U.S. embargos. Cuba never attacked any other nation. It never tried to invade any other nation and yet it's treated like the one of the greatest threats to western civilization.

southsiderosie wrote: »

Finally, I think it's funny (and sad) that so many European progressives are so supportive of the Castro regime, yet protest against human rights violations in China. Overall poverty reduction and development in China has been more significant than anywhere else in the world, and there has certainly been massive repression along the way. Yet China is "bad" and Cuba is "good"? Either they are both bad, or, hey, you have to crack a few eggs to make an omlette...

You can't compare Cuba to China, it's just ridiculous. Cuba has not invaded neighboring countries and killed it's civilians. It hasn't received huge foreign investment for the past few decades. There's just no comparison whatsoever.

Soldie

sold wrote: »

Not surprising, Cuba has some of the best medical care in the world, Lots of trained doctors.

Can you substantiate this? Curiously, this site seems to tell a different story.

aurelius79

nesf wrote: »

You really have no idea what you're talking about here. Seriously.

So China has not received huge amounts (billions) of foreign investment in the past 20-30 years? Seriously?

Flamed Diving

nesf wrote: »

Cuba used to receive huge amounts of money and material aid from the Soviet Union. Much of its infrastructure was built using this giving it a fair headstart over the majority of other developing countries. Cuba is doing pretty well but they didn't do it alone.

aurelius79 wrote: »

You could say that about any modern developing country. China receives vast amounts of money from the U.S. and other nations.

So, it would be fair to say you are referring to the first line here, for you were referring to nesf's post, above.

aurelius79 wrote: »

So China has not received huge amounts (billions) of foreign investment in the past 20-30 years? Seriously?

Goalposts. Shifted.

aurelius79

egan007 wrote: »

I've been to cuba. no children go hungry - but nobody eats decent food

I bet Cubans don't throw away tons of food every year either. Good thing I live in a democracy where I can waste as much as I want as long as I can pay for it.

nesf

aurelius79 wrote: »

So China has not received huge amounts (billions) of foreign investment in the past 20-30 years? Seriously?

If you don't understand the difference between foreign investment building factories in a country and direct aid in the form of money and materials then yes, you don't understand what you're talking about.


Edit:

I'll put it in terms that anyone can understand: How many roads did American Multinational companies build and how many factories did the EU set up providing jobs in this country?

aurelius79

nesf wrote: »

If you don't understand the difference between foreign investment building factories in a country and direct aid in the form of money and materials then yes, you don't understand what you're talking about.

China receives private foreign investment and direct international aid from the UN and other agencies (many NGOs). What was the point again?

Flamed Diving

aurelius79 wrote: »

China receives private foreign investment and direct international aid from the UN and other agencies (many NGOs). What was the point again?

What does the 'G' stand for in Non-G-Organisation, again?

nesf

aurelius79 wrote: »

China receives private foreign investment and direct international aid from the UN and other agencies (many NGOs). What was the point again?

You're counting both as the same, which they are very much not and do you imagine that China got more per head than the Soviet Union gave Cuba? Remember that when the Soviet Union was in existence it was very generous to countries that adopted communism, except perhaps China.

southsiderosie

aurelius79 wrote: »

I don't think anyone is romanticizing about anything here. People are claiming Castro is some evil tyrant and his people are so oppressed. I'm simply stating facts that Cuba has grown considerably since the revolution even under such a "brutal dictatorship" and U.S. embargos. Cuba never attacked any other nation. It never tried to invade any other nation and yet it's treated like the one of the greatest threats to western civilization.

You can't compare Cuba to China, it's just ridiculous. Cuba has not invaded neighboring countries and killed it's civilians. It hasn't received huge foreign investment for the past few decades. There's just no comparison whatsoever.

So if you are not willing to concede that Cuba is a dictatorship, then we can at least agree that they are a regime that severely curtails the freedom of their citizens. But many people seem to justify this because they have good social development indicators. If that is all that matters - it wipes the slate of the government clean, so to speak - then yes we can lump China and Cuba together as developing countries that have curtailed individual freedoms to achieve a greater social good: economic and social development, within the context of a single-party state.

If you still do not think the comparison to China is appropriate, then lets use an example that is closer to home - Chile. Would you think the Pinochet regime was justified? A lot of people were killed in the transition period, and massive repression was necessary to enact economic reforms, but today they are much better off, both in terms of economic growth and an overall reduction in severe poverty. Do the ends justify the means? To me, there is nothing for a Castro sympathizer to say but yes - and arguably Chile has made much more economic and social progress since the 1960s than Cuba.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Eliot Rosewater

aurelius79 wrote: »

The U.S. has executed 1188 people since 1976, 52 executed just this year. Any data as to why people were executed in Cuba, or is the act of state sanctioned execution enough to label Castro's administration a "reign of terror".

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

You've perverted the importance of the numbers for political gain. The population of the US is 26.9 times the population of Cuba*. That means that the execution rate in Cuba would have to be under 44 (1188/26.9) people since 1976 for it to be a safer country than the US.

Would I be right in assuming that more than 44 people have been killed in Cuba in the past 33 years?

Would I also be right in assuming that many of these people were not given a fair trial and due process?

*source: Wiki; couldnt be bothered hitting the CIA factbook at 1 am in the morning.

aurelius79

donegalfella wrote: »

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As opposed to the U.S.-backed Batista dictatorship which Castro helped overthrow? By the way, even JFK was a fan of Fidel.

"I believe that there is no country in the world including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country’s policies during the Batista regime. I approved the proclamation which Fidel Castro made in the Sierra Maestra, when he justifiably called for justice and especially yearned to rid Cuba of corruption. I will even go further: to some extent it is as though Batista was the incarnation of a number of sins on the part of the United States. Now we shall have to pay for those sins. In the matter of the Batista regime, I am in agreement with the first Cuban revolutionaries. That is perfectly clear."
-JFK interview with Jean Daniel 24, 10, 1963

donegalfella wrote: »

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I love the basic level of respect I get when visiting this forum. Anyway, that is one random person's opinion on calculating Cuba's GDP, what's that got to do with anything?

donegalfella wrote: »

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Damn, you got me with that one picture of a bed. Here's another picture of a bed, possibly a bed in Cuba. It doesn't look too bad to me. You could even compare these beds to the ones in some Irish psychiatric hospitals.

donegalfella wrote: »

Again, you might want to read more about Cuban food rationing.

That's one American woman's experiment with Cuban diet. Did you read where she wouldn't eat half of the diet because she was worried about getting fat?

"Limited in what they can eat, Cubans spend much time thinking about their next meal. I found myself obsessing about food as well. Would I have enough money at the end of the month to buy vegetables? Would all those potatoes make me fat?"

Hilarious. The first sentence doesn't even make sense.

donegalfella wrote: »

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I think you're clutching at straws here. This is one picture of the outside of a house. It's not even run down. All it needs is a lick of paint and it'll be good as new.

donegalfella wrote: »

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What's that? Could be a picture of a family outing gone wrong for all I know.

donegalfella wrote: »

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Estimated by who? My point was that any real numbers are just obscured by these random figures from several different sources. What is the source for the number 70,000? Is it backed up by any independent verification? The fact is that most of the people here condemning Castro have no real evidence of any serious breaches of human rights. It's almost all hearsay. All you can do is voice your opinion and offer some questionable sources.

aurelius79

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

What lies? If you're going to call me a liar you better have some evidence to back up that claim. What I posted was the truth. Don't believe me? Go look it up and correct me.

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

You've perverted the importance of the numbers for political gain. The population of the US is 26.9 times the population of Cuba*. That means that the execution rate in Cuba would have to be under 44 (1188/26.9) people since 1976 for it to be a safer country than the US.

What planet are you on? I'm not Fidel Castro! Why on earth would I feel the need to pervert anything for political gain? I'm not a politician. Someone stated that the Castro administration was a regime of terror or some such nonsense because he executed and imprisoned people. My point was that the U.S. does the exact same thing.

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Would I be right in assuming that more than 44 people have been killed in Cuba in the past 33 years?

Would I also be right in assuming that many of these people were not given a fair trial and due process?

I wouldn't assume anything if I were you. That's the problem with a lot of people. Instead of assuming something, why not just go look it up and get the facts before you go forming opinions.

Would I be right in assuming you're on the internet? Why not look these things up and get back to me when you have some factual evidence.

Rossibaby

dsmythy wrote: »

As the boatloads of people desperate for Florida attest to.

Oh sweet Jesus. Yes a number of Cubans wish to live in the US, and do you know why? The US offers Cubans aslyum seeker status, they guarantee them a home if they come and a job...now tell me this, if they offered something similar to a capitalist country in the region say haiti, or mexico, I think you would find a few more people running for the US than do from Cuba:rolleyes:

And to the poster who estimated Castros personal wealth at 900 million dollars, LOL just LOL

Mahatma coat

Someone should ask Obama why he maintains the embargo

Flamed Diving

This thread is ****ing terrible.

Shadow47

Rossibaby wrote: »

Well it seems many,many countries disagree with you.

Right because so many democratic countries support socialist dictatorships....pfffff

But you still got Venezuela, Ecuador and maybe Bolivia to support Castro :rolleyes:

Wow Castro killed thousands, you do know he was involved in a revolution against a US puppet dictator?

Batista was not an US puppet dictator, though he was a dictator but that is not and excuse for the torture, imprisonment or murder of thousands of innocent civilians because of their "ideological diversity" as Guevara so eloquently put it.

Castro and the Cuban revolution has greatly ameliorated the lot of normal Cubans, who previously faced massive hardship and deprivation.

This is just absurd, look at the UNESCO figures and you will see that the cuban people were A LOT better before the socialist dictatorship.

Cuba also does sterling work with regard to offering aid to other developing countries, specifically the export of doctors. Castro's and the revolution's achievements have been immense and perhaps this is why he is so well regarded by the GA of the UN.

If only that aid would be possible without the brutalization of the cuban people by their corrupt and illegitimate leaders.

aurelius79

Someone should also ask Bill Clinton why he extended the embargo to foreign subsidiaries of U.S. companies in 1999.

Shadow47

Rossibaby wrote: »

Oh sweet Jesus. Yes a number of Cubans wish to live in the US, and do you know why? The US offers Cubans aslyum seeker status, they guarantee them a home if they come and a job...now tell me this, if they offered something similar to a capitalist country in the region say haiti, or mexico, I think you would find a few more people running for the US than do from Cuba

Would you prefer that after they reach US soil they be deported back to Cuba to face a firing squad or imprisonment as a political prisoner? :rolleyes: