British Army/RUC waterboarded suspects in the 70's

gurramok

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/21/british-army-northern-ireland-interrogations
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8426443.stm

The upholders of the law using terror tactics terrorizing the population at will inside and on the outside just like on Bloody Sunday, surprise surprise.

Guardian wrote:

When Holden came to trial in April 1973 he told the jury he had been playing cards with his brother and two friends in a public place at the time Bell was shot. He said that after being arrested in his bed the soldiers had taken him to their base on Black Mountain, west of Belfast, where he was beaten, burned with a cigarette lighter, hooded and threatened with execution.

Holden also gave a detailed account of being waterboarded, although he did not use that term. In a court report published the following day, the Belfast Telegraph said the defendant told the jury that he had been pushed into a cubicle where he was held down by six men, that a towel was placed over his head, and that water was then poured slowly over his face from a bucket. "It nearly put me unconscious," Holden was quoted as saying. "It nearly drowned me and stopped me from breathing. This went on for a minute." A short while later he was subjected to the same treatment again, he said.

FlutterinBantam

Are you expressing an opinion or just general trolling??

Hendrix89

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Are you expressing an opinion or just general trolling??

Are you that incapable of expressing sympathy for those who suffered abuse at the hands of the British and disgust at their actions or are you just trolling?

Nodin

I though this was well known....

Riddle101

Lot's of dark deeds were done during those days by all sides. It's just how things are done. Although I feel sorry, i'm not surprised, how else do you get information from people?

Paul4As

British army personel and RUC officers weren't afforded the option of being just waterboarded if they were captured during the troubles!!! They were probably just stripped, beaten and shot in the back of the head!!!
BUT...hopefully those days are over!!! Good and bad on both sides back then!!! Look to the future...onwards and upwards for Northern Ireland!!!

Erin Go Brath

Riddle101 wrote: »

Lot's of dark deeds were done during those days by all sides. It's just how things are done. Although I feel sorry, i'm not surprised, how else do you get information from people?

Waterboarding suspects is how law and order forces administer policing?

Its not you know. Its called abusing a position of power!

wes

Disgusting behavior by British forces, and shows there brutality against the average person. Also, it has been well established that torture is not the best method of getting information, and that there actions probably didn't benefit them a whole lot and probably encouraged more people to take up arms against them. Its unfortunate that they don't seem to have learned there lesson.

Paul4As

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Waterboarding suspects is how law and order forces administer policing?

Its not you know. Its called abusing a position of power!

Maybe if law and order in Ireland and the UK was more like that then these knife crime people, rapists, tiger kidnappers. paedophiles would think twice about committing whatever they do...to be only slapped on the wrist and given a warning!!!
In Ireland and the UK it's the innocent who get the punishment!!!

gurramok

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Are you expressing an opinion or just general trolling??

Where did you get that one from? What is your opinion?

Perhaps, you should read Wes post. Torturing suspects where there would be a high degree of those suspects been innocent encourages violence from the other side in turn.

Paul4As wrote: »

British army personel and RUC officers weren't afforded the option of being just waterboarded if they were captured during the troubles!!! They were probably just stripped, beaten and shot in the back of the head!!!

So both are equally as bad, wish some here realise that.

Paul4As wrote: »

BUT...hopefully those days are over!!! Good and bad on both sides back then!!! Look to the future...onwards and upwards for Northern Ireland!!!

Amen to that!

Paul4As

wes wrote: »

Also, it has been well established that torture is not the best method of getting information

It seems to be the best way of getting information in the movies!!!
I love those vigilante movies where the guy who has been wronged goes on a long winded trek to get to the baddie...beating up a few of the baddie's cronies along the way to get clues in his search!!!

wes

Paul4As wrote: »

It seems to be the best way of getting information in the movies!!!

They are a narrative short cut, used to get things moving in a film.

Paul4As wrote: »

I love those vigilante movies where the guy who has been wronged goes on a long winded trek to get to the baddie...beating up a few of the baddie's cronies along the way to get clues in his search!!!

There is a world of difference between a random vigilante and the police. The 2 should be held to completely different standards.

Paul4As

wes wrote: »

They are a narrative short cut, used to get things moving in a film.

There is a world of difference between a random vigilante and the police. The 2 should be held to completely different standards.

Isn't it great to rightfully see crime being punished in these films though...maybe not by those who should be doing it however, as in the the police and courts!!!
Pity justice doesn't happen in real life!!! :mad:

A Dub in Glasgo

Nodin wrote: »

I though this was well known....

Thought so as well. It is quite clear that the British media and people have no idea what went on in their name

T runner

Paul4As wrote: »

Isn't it great to rightfully see crime being punished in these films though...maybe not by those who should be doing it however, as in the the police and courts!!!
Pity justice doesn't happen in real life!!! :mad:

I agree completely. The criminals who water boarded an innocent man in order to extract a bogus confession, resulting in him spending 17 years in prison will not even get a slap on the wrist.

Zambia

This should never have happened, but it did.

Thanks to the economy we are back to a lot of young men in ulster looking for something to do. This talk is far more dangerous than some realise.

K-9

Nodin wrote: »

I though this was well known....

Indeed, Castlereagh became common knowledge in the late 70's/early 80's.

Case went to the ECHR and the UK lost.

nesf

And the Irish Government around the same time had a group of heavies in the Gardaí who used to "beat the ****" out of suspects to get information out of them. It was recounted by Conor Cruise O'Brien as something he knew of (and approved of) as a Minister. Different times etc.

dlofnep

It reminds me of the line - "You dare call me a terrorist, while you look down your gun." - It's very apt here. Countries such as England and the US claim to be the moral backbone of the world, denouncing terrorism - but yet use methods like this and expect to continue to lead the world by example. It just doesn't fly.

You can be sure if this happened to a British civilian living in Afghanistan, there would be an uproar in the media. It's the double-standards that get to people.

nesf

dlofnep wrote: »

You can be sure if this happened to a British civilian living in Afghanistan, there would be an uproar in the media. It's the double-standards that get to people.

Eh, when it happens to Afghans in Afghanistan committed by British Army people there's uproar in the media...

dlofnep

nesf wrote: »

Eh, when it happens to Afghans in Afghanistan committed by British Army people there's uproar in the media...

Not on the same level. Waterboarding is casually avoided by many media outlets.

I'll give you an example - When foreign nationals are detained under the "patriot act" type policies in the US and Britain, officials at top levels brush it off as if it's normal to detain people without a trial and torture them.

Now, have a look at where an American or British citizen has been detained in let's say - Iran, on conspiracy of spying (with which they release shortly after) - The amount of time given to one person, compared to the hundreds who are detained without a trial is imbalanced to say the least.

Which brings me back to my original point, US/Britain want to be the moral backbone of the world - but only if they themselves can bypass any requirements for it.

nesf

dlofnep wrote: »

Not on the same level. Waterboarding is casually avoided by many media outlets.

I'll give you an example - When foreign nationals are detained under the "patriot act" type policies in the US and Britain, officials at top levels brush it off as if it's normal to detain people without a trial and torture them.

Now, have a look at where an American or British citizen has been detained in let's say - Iran, on conspiracy of spying (with which they release shortly after) - The amount of time given to one person, compared to the hundreds who are detained without a trial is imbalanced to say the least.

Which brings me back to my original point, US/Britain want to be the moral backbone of the world - but only if they themselves can bypass any requirements for it.

Eh, so applying diplomatic pressure to get citizens of yours released from custody in other countries is a bad thing now? You're really stretching your argument here.

dlofnep

nesf wrote: »

Eh, so applying diplomatic pressure to get citizens of yours released from custody in other countries is a bad thing now? You're really stretching your argument here.

No it's not a bad thing - but the reaction is hypocritical. A sort of - "How dare they detain our citizen.", (even if it was for a legitimate reason) - meanwhile, they detain 100's of foreign nationals without trial.

How can a nation preach to the world about terrorism, when they themselves are actively engaged in it. How can a nation preach to the world about freedom, when they themselves do not afford everyone the right to a fair trial and routinely attack civil liberties in their own countries. Am I really stretching? Is what I've said not valid?

FlutterinBantam

dlofnep wrote: »

No it's not a bad thing - but the reaction is hypocritical. A sort of - "How dare they detain our citizen.", (even if it was for a legitimate reason) - meanwhile, they detain 100's of foreign nationals without trial.

How can a nation preach to the world about terrorism, when they themselves are actively engaged in it. How can a nation preach to the world about freedom, when they themselves do not afford everyone the right to a fair trial and routinely attack civil liberties in their own countries. Am I really stretching? Is what I've said not valid?

heh heh you are letting your idealism get the better of you my friend.

Terrorism today is a dirty business,anyone who is naive enough or blinkered to believe that terrorism today can be fought and crushed by conventional methods is a tad off the mark in my opinion.

dlofnep

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Terrorism today is a dirty business,anyone who is naive enough or blinkered to believe that terrorism today can be fought and crushed by conventional methods is a tad off the mark in my opinion.

You missed my point completely.

Using "terrorism" to subvert terrorism is hypocritical. Moreover - causes more harm than good.

FlutterinBantam

dlofnep wrote: »

You missed my point completely.

.

Don't think so;)

dlofnep

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Don't think so;)

Well then - why didn't you respond with regards to my argument - which was the hypocrisy of using terrorism to subvert terrorism.

FlutterinBantam

I don't see any hypocrisy in using non conventional methods to crush terrorism.

If you believe that terrorism can be defeated by fair trials and conventional courts of justice, well fair play to you.

A lot of body bags are coming home from people who didn't get fair trials or conventional justice, just an IED and finito.

I respect those people who safeguard my freedom, rather than the cowards who hide in the shadows and don't care who they kill.

dlofnep

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I don't see any hypocrisy in using non conventional methods to crush terrorism.

Who said anything about non-conventional methods? I categorically stated "using terrorism to subvert terrorism". Yes, it is hypocritical. Unless you have another definition of hypocrisy, I'd like to hear it.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

If you believe that terrorism can be defeated by fair trials and conventional courts of justice, well fair play to you.

I don't believe that attacking sovereign nations, resulting in the deaths of 100'000's of civilians is going to remove terrorism from the world. All it will do is make people more angry, and more inclined to use terrorism as a response to their ongoing oppression.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

A lot of body bags are coming home from people who didn't get fair trials or conventional justice, just an IED and finito.

And I feel sorry for people who have lost their lives in an ethically weak war. But they opted to be there. People in Iraq did not choose to be killed. Many had no choice.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I respect those people who safeguard my freedom, rather than the cowards who hide in the shadows and don't care who they kill.

Like pilots who drop cluster bombs on civilian populations, or snipers who shoot from 2 miles away? What freedom is it you speak of? The freedom to vote? The freedom to have civil equality? Tell me exactly what these insurgents are doing that is impacting your freedom?

FlutterinBantam

They are costing me thousands in taxes for security.

The reason they haven't had more effect is that the US sees to it that they are contained and not allowed to bring down western industry and lifestyle by terrorist actions.

Without the US involvement these malcontents would be free to hatch their terrorist agenda in the caves of Afghanistan and have free rein to launch attacks on the West.

Thank God we have a strong ally who is not afraid to face them down and their cohorts, at considerable cost and sacrifice.

Erin Go Brath

Paul4As wrote: »

Maybe if law and order in Ireland and the UK was more like that then these knife crime people, rapists, tiger kidnappers. paedophiles would think twice about committing whatever they do...to be only slapped on the wrist and given a warning!!!
In Ireland and the UK it's the innocent who get the punishment!!!

Whatever you may think about people who break the law when they are in the custody of the state their captors have a duty to treat them according to guidelines set down. If the law and order forces neglect to abide by the rules then the whole system and society itself will face a major crises and anarchy is an almost certain byproduct. This is a large contributory factor to the shambles of the northern statelet.

dlofnep

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

They are costing me thousands in taxes for security.

Where do you live?

I think you'll find that wars against these people, which make them even angrier cost a lot more.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The reason they haven't had more effect is that the US sees to it that they are contained and not allowed to bring down western industry and lifestyle by terrorist actions.

More effect? 9/11 and London tube bombings escape your radar? They crippled the American economy in 20 minutes, and crippled the airline business for years. They've had an impact, and while American and British troops continue to kill innocent people - their armies will only grow larger, largely due to discontent with the murder of their relatives and friends.

America and Britain use terrorist tactics to thwart perceived terrorist threats.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Without the US involvement these malcontents would be free to hatch their terrorist agenda in the caves of Afghanistan and have free rein to launch attacks on the West.

Without US involvement, there wouldn't be any attacks on the US.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Thank God we have a strong ally who is not afraid to face them down and their cohorts, at considerable cost and sacrifice.

Spare me, please. :rolleyes:

Flamed Diving

Anytime I hear the word "waterboard" I can't help but think of some aquatic-based leisure event.

You may continue...

FTA69

Paul4As wrote: »

British army personel and RUC officers weren't afforded the option of being just waterboarded if they were captured during the troubles!!! They were probably just stripped, beaten and shot in the back of the head!!!
BUT...hopefully those days are over!!! Good and bad on both sides back then!!! Look to the future...onwards and upwards for Northern Ireland!!!

The key difference being the fact that Republicans freely admitted they were in a state of revolutionary struggle and that such actions would occur as a result of warfare. The Brits on the other hand, were bending over backwards in order to deny there was even a state of political conflict here in Ireland, they tried to portray it as simply a law and order issue, a glorified policing exercise in order to suppress a criminal enterprise. Of course when one raises the fact they mass-interned their own citizens without trial and tortured them that whole facade tends to fall apart; their use of torture and collusion with death squads undermines the whole image with which they have tried to portray their role in this country and their actions here.

Fratton Fred

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Thought so as well. It is quite clear that the British media and people have no idea what went on in their name

FTA69 wrote: »

The key difference being the fact that Republicans freely admitted they were in a state of revolutionary struggle and that such actions would occur as a result of warfare. The Brits on the other hand, were bending over backwards in order to deny there was even a state of political conflict here in Ireland, they tried to portray it as simply a law and order issue, a glorified policing exercise in order to suppress a criminal enterprise. Of course when one raises the fact they mass-interned their own citizens without trial and tortured them that whole facade tends to fall apart; their use of torture and collusion with death squads undermines the whole image with which they have tried to portray their role in this country and their actions here.

so because the Irish declared they were going to torture and murder innocent people, it is somehow acceptable, but because the British did it but denied it, they are evil? Would it have been more "Humane" to torture these people, then bury their bodies in the Dublin mountains never to be seen again, as a "Lesson" to others?

This is the sort of thread where McArmalite pops up and starts lambasting the Brits, then finishes his sentence with "Have you found Nairac yet".

I don't think anyone has the moral highground when it comes to hypocrisy.

FTA69

Personally I don't see any moral equivalence between the British establishment and Republicans, as far as I'm concerned one is an occupying and repressive power while one was concerned with removing that power. However, that's a whole different argument that me, you and many others have done to death in this forum a million and one times over.

To reiterate, Republicans were never under any illusions about what conflict entailed, they knew full well that if you went out to challenge the British presence in this country they would meet that challenge with a variety of military and extra-military means e.g. collusion, internment etc; all this is a part of warfare whether for right or wrong. It's the bloody hypocrisy that grates me, the portrayal of the conflict here as a case of glorified handbag snatchers running wild. Meanwhile they were arming and informing death-squads with a view to murdering their own citizens as well as practicing torture.

FlutterinBantam

I think you should read a book called "Low Intensity Operations" by Brig Gen Sir Frank Kitson.

That will explain the depraved depths that so called freedom fighters were prepared to go to to achieve(or not achieve) their ideals.

This required a very specialised response to defeat and clean out.

I for one am thankful that peace has been restored to an extent in NI,but there are hard core criminal elements out there determined to upset the agreement for their own nefarious objectives, these criminals hide behind flags of convenience,and unfortunately the less worldly adept amongst us are sucked in.

wes

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I think you should read a book called "Low Intensity Operations" by Brig Gen Sir Frank Kitson.

That will explain the depraved depths that so called freedom fighters were prepared to go to to achieve(or not achieve) their ideals.

Perhaps if Catholics/Nationalists weren't needlessly oppressed in the first place, groups like the IRA would have had little or no support and fizzled out. As it stands, the repression of the average person, acted as recruting sergeant for these movements and actually made things a lot worse.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

This required a very specialised response to defeat and clean out.

Running around torturing and killing innocent people, made the Brits no better than the people they were fighting.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I for one am thankful that peace has been restored to an extent in NI,but there are hard core criminal elements out there determined to upset the agreement for their own nefarious objectives, these criminals hide behind flags of convenience,and unfortunately the less worldly adept amongst us are sucked in.

You see the reason none of thse groups have gotten anywhere is that Catholics/Nationalists now have there civil rights respected. This has done more to put a stop to the likes of the IRA, than the gun ho shoot first, ask question attitude the British forces use to have up North.

If the British government ensured respect for the rights of Catholics/Nationalists, a lot of the nasty crap probably could have been avoided.

FlutterinBantam

wes wrote: »

If the British government ensured respect for the rights of Catholics/Nationalists, a lot of the nasty crap probably could have been avoided.

In fairness, I would agree with you there.

Wertz

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Terrorism today is a dirty business,anyone who is naive enough or blinkered to believe that terrorism today can be fought and crushed by conventional methods is a tad off the mark in my opinion.

So why the famous "War on Terror" in both Afghanistan and Iraq then? Surely two of the most adept military forces in the world would have foreseen the futility of a conventional war on "terrorsists", particularly in Afghanistan after previous efforts by the Russians and a similar failure in Vietnam for Uncle Sam.
The US and the UK, despite warnings from history and from those who opposed the move at the time, waded headlong into unwinnable conflicts with no clear intent other than "defeating terrorism", but yet the forces which you hold in such high regard cannot hope to "win" by conventional methods in the face of guerilla tactics (short of just carpet bombing the place, civillians and all)...so those same forces and those who command them can only be seen by you as "naive and blinkered" to use your own words.



On topic: no surprise in this story for me. "Waterboarding" would have been a common enough method from what I've read, amongst many other methods. I have a mate from a northern county who had a male relative in the 70's arrested on suspicion of whatever...when questions failed to yield the answers the cops wanted, he was hooded/tied up, put in a 'copter, questioned again whilst it hovered with the the door open and then f*cked out. It was hovering a few ft off the ground, but the guy being questioned didn't know that. Anecdotal BS? I don't really care what your opinion is of the story: I would trust the source and don't doubt the ability of the forces in question.

John Stalker tried to expose the Brits underhanded tactics and state sponsored murder back in the 80's and got himself a nice desk job back in blighty and his enquiries office firebombed by the FRU, but not before a character assasination and smear campaign at a political and legal level to make sure he was rendered ineffectual. SAS and RUC special branch operated a shoot to kill policy in the North for at least 2 months in the winter of '82. This was a government, military and legislature (all unofficially) operating at the level of a dysfunctional revenge squad.

The provos never made a secret of the fact that they were out to kill and maim security forces...the British on the other hand whilst talking as if butter wouldn't melt, arguably carried out even lower deeds than the army they were engaging with...
That torture methods were used amounts to little when protagonists of same were willing to murder. That applies to both sides, but again, the IRA never tried to hide it. Nothing to see here. Move along.

FlutterinBantam

heh heh heh , jeez sorry for laughing, so it's all right to kill and maim if you say you are going to do it?

And it's not if you don't say it??

Justifies it ,does it.?

That makes a difference to those killed and maimed.??

Fratton Fred

What is shooting someone if it isn't shoot to kill?

Personally I see nothing wrong with it if the people you are shooting employ the exact same tactics.

K-9

Wertz wrote: »

On topic: no surprise in this story for me. "Waterboarding" would have been a common enough method from what I've read, amongst many other methods. I have a mate from a northern county who had a male relative in the 70's arrested on suspicion of whatever...when questions failed to yield the answers the cops wanted, he was hooded/tied up, put in a 'copter, questioned again whilst it hovered with the the door open and then f*cked out. It was hovering a few ft off the ground, but the guy being questioned didn't know that. Anecdotal BS? I don't really care what your opinion is of the story: I would trust the source and don't doubt the ability of the forces in question.

John Stalker tried to expose the Brits underhanded tactics and state sponsored murder back in the 80's and got himself a nice desk job back in blighty and his enquiries office firebombed by the FRU, but not before a character assasination and smear campaign at a political and legal level to make sure he was rendered ineffectual. SAS and RUC special branch operated a shoot to kill policy in the North for at least 2 months in the winter of '82. This was a government, military and legislature (all unofficially) operating at the level of a dysfunctional revenge squad.

The provos never made a secret of the fact that they were out to kill and maim security forces...the British on the other hand whilst talking as if butter wouldn't melt, arguably carried out even lower deeds than the army they were engaging with...
That torture methods were used amounts to little when protagonists of same were willing to murder. That applies to both sides, but again, the IRA never tried to hide it. Nothing to see here. Move along.

It shouldn't be forgotten that it was often decent RUC Officers who exposed the policies and gave Stalker the information, at great professional and personal risk.

K-9

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What is shooting someone if it isn't shoot to kill?

Personally I see nothing wrong with it if the people you are shooting employ the exact same tactics.

Law and order should be exactly that. Plenty of other ways to get at the IRA eg. informers which IMO is acceptable.

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Personally I see nothing wrong with it if the people you are shooting employ the exact same tactics.

'Works both ways'... 'vicious circle'...'chicken & egg'

Your statement can be employed by any side in any conflict but will get you nowhere to solving the problem

Grudaire

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What is shooting someone if it isn't shoot to kill?

Personally I see nothing wrong with it if the people you are shooting employ the exact same tactics.

That's the crux of it, isn't it!?

If anything the IRA's over the years have been more effective at targeting 'legitimate' targets.

But this line of thought leads down the 'they started it' arguments, which we should all be above

LordSutch

FTA69 wrote: »

The key difference being the fact that Republicans freely admitted they were in a state of 'revolutionary struggle' and that such actions would occur as a result of warfare........

Revolutionary struggle me ar** :rolleyes: dear oh dear, some people are so indoctrinated its freightening (unless of course you are actually a genuine IRA member, or sympathiser)? in which case I'm on the other side.

FTA69

Camelot wrote: »

Revolutionary struggle me ar** :rolleyes: dear oh dear, some people are so indoctrinated its freightening (unless of course you are actually a genuine IRA member, or sympathiser)? in which case I'm on the other side.

Sure how do you know you aren't the one who has been indoctrinated?

dlofnep

Camelot wrote: »

Revolutionary struggle me ar** :rolleyes: dear oh dear, some people are so indoctrinated its freightening (unless of course you are actually a genuine IRA member, or sympathiser)? in which case I'm on the other side.

Tackling civil inequality, state collusion and state murder, gerrymandering, internment without trial.

How was it not revolutionary struggle to oppose this?

Paul4As

As a unionist I am apalled at state collusion which has been proven to have occurred in Northern Ireland...I am apalled at the awful inhumane killings committed by loyalist terrorists and republican terrorists!!!Things are progressing in Northern Ireland...ever so slowly...though they still are progressing!!!But some of the blatant support for the IRA movement on this thread...and the murderous actions they got up to in the past...it is a disgrace!!! Thankfully a lot of the posters of those comments seem to based in the Republic!!!This water-bombing incident...which may I add "allegedly" (still to be proven in the courts) happened 30 years ago...it is so far back in the past!!! If people on this politics forum wish to live in the past...I believe there is a history forum on boards.ie!!! Would some moderator please lock this thread!!! Thanks in advance!!!

dlofnep

Paul4As wrote: »

As a unionist I am apalled at state collusion which has been proven to have occurred in Northern Ireland...I am apalled at the awful inhumane killings committed by loyalist terrorists and republican terrorists!!!

Are you appalled at the murders by the British army also?

Paul4As wrote: »

But some of the blatant support for the IRA movement on this thread...and the murderous actions they got up to in the past...it is a disgrace!!!

Paul4As wrote: »

This water-bombing incident...which may I add "allegedly" (still to be proven in the courts) happened 30 years ago...it is so far back in the past!!! If people on this politics forum wish to live in the past...I believe there is a history forum on boards.ie!!! Would some moderator please lock this thread!!! Thanks in advance!!!

Note, the irony is in bold.