Politics have no place in football

starbelgrade

Following the World Cup qualifier last night, the fallout today in mainstream politics in Ireland has been baffling. Cowen said he would be discussing the matter with Sarkosy, Fine Gael's Alan Shatter brought up the issue of video refereeing in the Dail, supported by Dermot Ahern & on Matt Cooper's show, I heard some female politician (didn't catch her name), saying that the F.A.I. should consider bringing F.I.F.A. to court over the issue.

The issue is also set to discussed on Prime Time later tonight!

Now I'm a huge soccer fan & was very disappointed with last night's result, but I really believe that mainstream politics has no business interfering with how the governing bodies of football operate or in the politics of football.

The only bit of sense I heard spoken from the political world, was from French Prime Minister Francois Fillon, who said that the Irish government 'should not interfere' in footballing decisions.

(Please note that this is a discussion of the politics of the day & not the match itself - there's plenty of that over on the soccer forum).

mikemac

It's not new.
Remember 2002.
India and Pakistan with access to nuclear technology having border incidents and many said war was imminent. You wouldn't have noticed this in the Irish media.

Our own Taoiseach was offering to act as an intermediary in the Irish football team, that was the main political news here for a number of weeks

Scofflaw

Why is this in the Economy Forum?

moderately,
Scofflaw

Liam Byrne

Why not ? There was enough politics going on in changing the rules, and it's hard to separate the Platini connection from the issues.

And there is the wider angle for society (as signified by FF and the banks) where it doesn't matter what you do as long as you get away with it and you don't get caught!

dresden8

Bread and circuses.

Cowen should have better things on his mind.

Mr.Micro

Cowen knows that a victory last night would be a major boost to the morale of the Irish people and now that has been extinguished. He has no business interfering as a politician in this issue IMO, he is bound to mess it up ( not that FIFA will agree to a replay).

yoshytoshy

Finally ,fianna fail plays ball . lolls.

Nodin

Little to be doin with their time the pair of them, tbh.

Aidric

Completely agree. Politics should be left well away from this issue. Let it to the governing bodies to sort out.

Just out of interest, When we are in a world cup, does national spending not rise? If it does affect the country that much, why should the government not get involved? Whatever about the morale, surely being in a world cup is worth a couple of million in the state coffers?

Bards

I wonder what the result would be if Lisbon II were held tomorrow?

judging by the way FIFA/UEFA modified the draw to suit the big countries a lot of parallels can be drawn on how the EU is run

starbelgrade

Papa Smut wrote: »

Just out of interest, When we are in a world cup, does national spending not rise? If it does affect the country that much, why should the government not get involved? Whatever about the morale, surely being in a world cup is worth a couple of million in the state coffers?

I can't disagree with the spending issue - yes, if we'd made the World Cup, the state, the publicans, the airlines & the guys who make the shakey shamrocks would have, undoubtably, made a few bucks out of it.

I would even have understood if the government were debating the issue based on the economic losses as a result of not qualifying, but they weren't - the Dail debated the issue of TV refereeing! And Cowen waffled on about "fair play" (as if he ever ran his government or it's budgets based on fair play).

I find it ridiculous, headline grabbing nonsense that has no place in Irish politics & even less of a place in international football. It's not like the politicians of our country don't have better things to be doing.

And it's not like there aren't enough politics in football as it is.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Kind of ironic considering the result of the Referendum second leg there a few weeks back.

I guess we're not in the "heart" of Europe anymore

nesf

Politicians making political hay out of some issue that's grabbed the minds of (some of) the people and (all) of the media. Really, is anyone actually surprised?

starbelgrade

I'm watching Oireachtas Report now... jeez, calls for a European directive to force FIFA to introduce video refereeing & Eamon Gilmore bumbling over his works to try & make a "joke" about the referee, saying that he could work for the Financial Regulator, as he did a great job at turning a blind eye.

Great to see the Oireachtas discussing such important matters with such sincerity.

seclachi

They are scrambling all over the first bit of news since the recession that they can blow off some hot air and seem like the good guys. They can go on all they want about footy, I wont forget there mess, and I wont forget the freight train thats coming in December.

The_Minister

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article6924267.ece

What.
The.
****.

First I see Dermot Ahern (noted soccer enthusiast on tv).

Then a Fiana Fail backbencher.

Then the opposition.

Then the Minister for Sport.

Thought it was odd, but said nothing.

Now it's a bloody international incident.


How the hell did this get so out of hand?

starbelgrade

There's already 2 threads on this issue.

The_Minister

starbelgrade wrote: »

There's already 2 threads on this issue.

I didn't see them till after I posted.

I've PM'd the mods to lock, move this thread.

starbelgrade

A ban would be more appropriate.

nesf

Locked, because I'm fickle like that.

Edit: And simultaneously moved by Scofflaw... :P

Scofflaw

nesf wrote: »

Locked, because I'm fickle like that.

Merged, because I'm fickler...

moderately,
Scofflaw

nesf

Scofflaw wrote: »

Merged, because I'm fickler...

moderately,
Scofflaw

Don't tempt me to split the thread just to lock it...

starbelgrade

"MOD FIGHT, MOD FIGHT!"

(please don't kill my thread in the battle!)

AlmightyCushion

None of this would have happened if we had just voted no to lisbon.

anonymous_joe

The_Minister wrote: »

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article6924267.ece

What.
The.
****.

First I see Dermot Ahern (noted soccer enthusiast on tv).

Then a Fiana Fail backbencher.

Then the opposition.

Then the Minister for Sport.

Thought it was odd, but said nothing.

Now it's a bloody international incident.


How the hell did this get so out of hand?

Because this is something people actually care about, mon ami.

Also, let's make something clear - if Ireland had qualified it would have been a lifesaver for FIFA. Any study on football has found that international success has great effects for a country. This can range from reduced suicide levels (seriously, it's true) all the way to the obvious increase in spending.

Given how much of economics relies on psychology, and people being happy to spend money, the effects can be massive. Happy people spend more money. SPending money boosts the economy etc. If Fianna Fáil were to hang on to power long enough to see an economic recovery they might get away with fcuking up in the first place. Hence their interest in it.

Also, distracts people from Nama, banks, etc.

starbelgrade

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Also, let's make something clear - if Ireland had qualified it would have been a lifesaver for FIFA.

I think you mean the FAI? It was a lot more in FIFAs interests for France to qualify.

Either way, I don't think if Ireland had qualified, then it would have brushed over the government's failings. Surely at this stage, the smokescreen of today's political meanderings could not be seen as anything more than what it was?

anonymous_joe

starbelgrade wrote: »

I think you mean the FAI? It was a lot more in FIFAs interests for France to qualify.

Either way, I don't think if Ireland had qualified, then it would have brushed over the government's failings. Surely at this stage, the smokescreen of today's political meanderings could not be seen as anything more than what it was?

I meant the FAI and Ireland in general there. Late night and I've had a few. :pac:

Of course not, but it would have cheered people up and distracted them.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Has to be opportunitism and trying to be liked.

There's no way there'll be a reply unless France actively push for it.

If FIFA were to order a replay imagine the precedent it would set. In football terms this is no different to demanding a replay over a dubious penalty decision.

Yes it was deliberate, yes it was blatant. Still no different to diving for a penalty.

AlmightyCushion

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Has to be opportunitism and trying to be liked.

There's no way there'll be a reply unless France actively push for it.

If FIFA were to order a replay imagine the precedent it would set. In football terms this is no different to demanding a replay over a dubious penalty decision.

Yes it was deliberate, yes it was blatant. Still no different to diving for a penalty.

One of the lads I work with told me that something similar happened years ago and there was a re-play. Some guy on the radio was yapping on about it.

starbelgrade

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

One of the lads I work with told me that something similar happened years ago and there was a re-play. Some guy on the radio was yapping on about it.

It happened in 2005 - FIFA decided to invalidate the result of a World Cup qualifier between Ukbekistan and Bahrain on the basis of "a technical error by the referee of the match".

A penalty was awarded & encrouched. Instead of awarding a re-take of the penalty - as per FIFA rules - a free kick was awarded instead.

As a FIFA spokesman said today, that was a "very different" case, because the referee in the match "saw the incident in question and simply failed to apply the proper rules".

In the case of the Ireland match, the officials didn't see the handball & the goal stood.

Basically, the rules of the game were applied during the Ireland v France game & not in the other match, so there is no grounds for a replay.

Someone should explain this to the Dail.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Yeah, as much as I'm tempted to be swayed by the Bahrain game, they really are different situations.

AlmightyCushion

starbelgrade wrote: »

It happened in 2005 - FIFA decided to invalidate the result of a World Cup qualifier between Ukbekistan and Bahrain on the basis of "a technical error by the referee of the match".

A penalty was awarded & encrouched. Instead of awarding a re-take of the penalty - as per FIFA rules - a free kick was awarded instead.

As a FIFA spokesman said today, that was a "very different" case, because the referee in the match "saw the incident in question and simply failed to apply the proper rules".

In the case of the Ireland match, the officials didn't see the handball & the goal stood.

Basically, the rules of the game were applied during the Ireland v France game & not in the other match, so there is no grounds for a replay.

Someone should explain this to the Dail.

Yeah I didn't know the details. It appears that these two incidents weren't as similar as this fella on the radio made them out to be.

ballsymchugh

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

One of the lads I work with told me that something similar happened years ago and there was a re-play. Some guy on the radio was yapping on about it.

thought you were going on about clare v offaly in the hurling semi final in 98 when the ref blew full time too early!!
anyway, FIFA is way to political as it is. the amount of wheeling and dealing that goes on and lobbying from countries that may be hosting the world cup is savage. imagine if john o'd or mary harney was on the fifa world cup organising committee, they'd have a savage expenses bill all taken care of by the fa of the country hosting them. england were giving designer handbags out a couple of weeks ago to them.
as for the type of political structure FIFA has, i would say it's not far from dictatorship. jao havalange was a dinosaur that wouldn't budge, blatter is a media whore, and his likely successor jack walker is already holding countries to ransom when it comes to looking for votes.
they'd probably make the irish government look like novices at any kinda politics. which they probably are!

PaulieD

Surely the thread title should read "Football has no place in politics."

Sleipnir

How about the X-Factor? Does that have a place in politics!?

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/tv-radio/brown-changes-his-tune-over-talented-jedward-1949367.html

picpress

The French people need to be shamed into calling for the match to be replayed.

I think if people were to write on each Euro note that they pass on especially if travelling to France the words

Les Bleus
Les Cheats

The French people would be shamed into calling for a replay as this message would go across europe.

Do it now and continue doing it.

Pass this message to your E-mail list and friends.
Garrett

PaulieD

picpress wrote: »

The French people need to be shamed into calling for the match to be replayed.

I think if people were to write on each Euro note that they pass on especially if travelling to France the words

Les Bleus
Les Cheats

The French people would be shamed into calling for a replay as this message would go across europe.

Do it now and continue doing it.

Pass this message to your E-mail list and friends.
Garrett

Sweet Jesus. You cant blame the whole French nation for the actions of one player. This is making us look very petty. I sniggered to myself when I heard Robbie Keane being interviewed. Apparently, he was outraged. The chap handled the ball three times on Wednesday night. Hypocrite.

The French didnt cheat us out of a place in the World Cup. The game was a draw, if anything they cheated us out of a penalty shootout. One we probably would have lost with the magnificent Lloris in goal for the French.

The game should have been put to bed long before extra time. You want to blame somebody, fine. Blame Kevin Doyle for failing to convert a fairly simple chance from six yards. Blame Robbie Keane for trying to walk the ball into the net instead of rifling it home, into the top corner. Blame John O'Shea for missing another sitter. Blame Damian Duff for not chipping it over the keeper into the back of the net. Blame McShane for not sticking with his man and seeing the ball out.

This is no conspiracy, if it was the referee would have given a penalty for Shays challenge on Anelka in the box. The referee made an error, thems the breaks. Thats football. Its heartbreaking but thats why we love the sport.

As for the politicians waffling on about something they know little about, how many of them will be attending the F.A.I Cup final this weekend?:rolleyes:

bmaxi

PaulieD wrote: »

Sweet Jesus. You cant blame the whole French nation for the actions of one player. This is making us look very petty. I sniggered to myself when I heard Robbie Keane being interviewed. Apparently, he was outraged. The chap handled the ball three times on Wednesday night. Hypocrite.

The French didnt cheat us out of a place in the World Cup. The game was a draw, if anything they cheated us out of a penalty shootout. One we probably would have lost with the magnificent Lloris in goal for the French.

The game should have been put to bed long before extra time. You want to blame somebody, fine. Blame Kevin Doyle for failing to convert a fairly simple chance from six yards. Blame Robbie Keane for trying to walk the ball into the net instead of rifling it home, into the top corner. Blame John O'Shea for missing another sitter. Blame Damian Duff for not chipping it over the keeper into the back of the net. Blame McShane for not sticking with his man and seeing the ball out.

This is no conspiracy, if it was the referee would have given a penalty for Shays challenge on Anelka in the box. The referee made an error, thems the breaks. Thats football. Its heartbreaking but thats why we love the sport.

As for the politicians waffling on about something they know little about, how many of them will be attending the F.A.I Cup final this weekend?:rolleyes:

I couldn't agree more. Every week we see players, including our own, cheating, diving and trying to hoodwink officials and who can forget the picture of Roy Keane leading his teammates in intimidating the referee.
The fact is, Henry did it and he got away with it. I doubt any player on the Irish team, given the same situation would not have done the same. We're always slagging off the English for dwelling on the hand of God incident, are we now destined to do the same? It's over now, get on with it.
Cowen was only playing to the gallery and listening to Shatter and Coughlan was one of the most cringe inducing moments in Dáil history, does either of them know anything about football?
It's a wonder "de man of de people" didn't pop over the parapet to have his say and claim his attendance allowance. Now, did someone mention cheats?

PaulieD

bmaxi wrote: »

I couldn't agree more. Every week we see players, including our own, cheating, diving and trying to hoodwink officials and who can forget the picture of Roy Keane leading his teammates in intimidating the referee.

A lot of people seem to forget Damian Duffs olympic style dive in the 2002 World Cup. Mr Cowen was Minister for Foreign Affairs at the time. Did he apologise to his Spanish counterparts? Did he hell. Its 1.40 into the video clip for those who are interested.

paddyland

How low, how sleazy, how cheap can Fianna Fáil the Bertie Party get?

Crap all over the country and screw the economy. But if a quiet word in Sarkozy's ear could get Ireland a replay, then Cowen could be the great hero, and maybe every soccer fan in Ireland would vote Fianna Fáil at the next election, and magically forget what a bunch of cheating, underhand, weasel worded worms they all are.

They make me SICK!

genericguy

The_Minister wrote: »

How the hell did this get so out of hand?

the second FF saw it as an opportunity to distract us from their upcoming economic assassination. shower of opportunistic bastards taking any chance they can to take our eyes off them.

PaulieD

Fianna Fail and Fairplay. Does not commute.

You have been often quoted in the past about FIFA’s role in ensuring fair play and proper sportsmanship. Here you have an opportunity to prove there is meaning behind these words and show children all over the world that in football those who cheat will not succeed.
Yours sincerely,

Dara Calleary TD, Minister of State

http://www.fiannafail.ie/page/s/fairplay

They must think the general populace are retards. Faux patriotism, a new low for the soldiers of destiny.

bmaxi

PaulieD wrote: »

http://www.fiannafail.ie/page/s/fairplay

Jesus, can you imagine the spamming?

Liam79

All they are doing is winning support from Joe Public by pretending to care about a stupid replay!!! And the minions are buying it!!! Dermot Ahern on CNN! Biffo syaing he will bring it up with Sarkozey:eek: !!!
Take a look at the pics of our second biggest city today, people being evacuated by the military from there homes...all roads in and out of Cork closed..literally, a city in lockdown...and whats headline news? A soccer match!!! And the Govt's involvement!!!!
There is a protest march at the French Embassy today!!:mad::rolleyes:

gleep

Did anyone see the incompotent gombeen ****head getting interviwed about this on news last night? He stood there smiling, joking, HE IS NOT TAKING THIS SERIOUSLY-HE COULD'T GIVE A SH1T. DO NOT BE FOOLED!
And he'll do more harm than good to this, like he does to eveything. Agree with OP, he should look after bigger issues like FIXING THE COUNTRY and leave the sport to sports people.

dvpower

Liam79 wrote: »

Take a look at the pics of our second biggest city today, people being evacuated by the military from there homes...all roads in and out of Cork closed..literally, a city in lockdown...

Is Cork the new New Orleans?:rolleyes:

Zamboni

It is embarrassing.

Dara Calleary is out of order and so is Dermot Aherne.
This is between the FAI, the French Federation and FIFA.
It has absolutely nothing to do with our politicians and Francois Fillon was spot on to tell Cowen the same.

What next? Archbishop of Dublin on the Blower to the Pope?

Tipp Man

The Arsenal Sheffield Utd game is a far more relevant game i think than the Bahrain 1

An injustice was done (not even on the same level as the Henry incident) and the Arse offered a replay.

to be honest we are never going to get a replay but all politicians should butt out of it

bladespin

Politicians are there to represent the people, if the people feel aggrieved (justly or otherwise) then it's part of our elected representatives roles to at least pay lip service to it and, if they can at all, do something about it.

bmaxi

bladespin wrote: »

Politicians are there to represent the people, if the people feel aggrieved (justly or otherwise) then it's part of our elected representatives roles to at least pay lip service to it and, if they can at all, do something about it.

Cowen knows there is nothing he can do about it. He's just huffing and puffing and trying to make himself look good.
It would serve him and us better to get his a*se back here and sort the mess he created or f*ck off and let someone, anyone, else do it.
Cowen only served to belittle the whole nation whingeing to Sarkozy, good for his image but not ours.