Would you feel uncomfortable about this??

mahamageehad

Hiya guys

I'm a 2nd year multimedia student. I'm producing a 3 minute short film for an assignment.

The idea I'm dealing with is basically a guy who's going about his day to day life. He goes to work, chats with his friends etc. Seems perfectly normal. Then he goes home and that night he hangs himself. The concept that I'm dealing with here is that suicide is a growing problem, especially in the male 18-25 bracket, and how no-one really knows what's happening in a someone elses head until something like this happens.

The problem is that I've been met with very mixed reviews about this. It's been deemed everything from "interesting" to "disgusting". I just want to know if anyone here would have any specific issues with a short film of this nature. I think most people are afraid it'll hit too close to home for someone actually affected by a young suicide.

thoughts??
comments??

Thanks!!

rizzla

I wouldn't feel uncomfortable about it, but then my opinion on people who commit suicide is that their the most selfish people in the world.

JohnK

I think its a good idea. Since suicide is something that's really just swept under the carpet anything that brings it more into the open and forces people to acknowledge/deal with it is a good idea in my books.

kittensoft1984

I think its a very good idea.

Especially as your short film will depict a "normal" life and not knowing what goes on in peoples head.

Excellent idea

Captain Chaos

rizzla wrote: »

but then my opinion on people who commit suicide is that their the most selfish people in the world.

I see this statement all the time by people about this topic and I don't understand it at all. Personally I think it takes all of guts to do and before you all go against me here, I had two good friends who did this in the past 3 years and selfish is the last thing I'd call them.

mahamageehad

Thanks guys.

So far that's been my biggest problem- the idea that we should talk about iit, that it's somehow taboo. I mean we talk openly about obesity and anorexia no matter who they may affect. We talk openly about car crash victims and people overdosing. My god we even talk openly about sex now and it was a dirty word in this country 10 years ago!!!! So I agree with you JohnK, awareness is everything!

But in this day and age to talk about suicide and mental illness is still seen as distasteful. To rizzla- i totally agree. TBH i can't ever envision myself in a situation where it would get so bad that i'd consider doing that to myself, my family and friends.

finally to kittensoft1984 i thought that it was the only way to go. I played around with the idea of an incredibly depressed guy first but when i researched it, it seems that when people decide to do this they kinda come out of their depression and seem almost normal until they do it because in their minds they don't have to deal with the pain for much longer.

mahamageehad

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I see this statement all the time by people about this topic and I don't understand it at all. Personally I think it takes all of guts to do and before you all go against me here, I had two good friends who did this in the past 3 years and selfish is the last thing I'd call them.

This is the type of reaction I'm talking about. Not that I'm saying your wrong Captain Chaos but it's obviously a controversial and touchy subject with you. So would you feel that this is making cheap entertainment out of a close to the heart issue??

rizzla

Will the film end with the suicide? Leaving it open to discussion and interpretation or will you also be showing how that action would affect the friends and family?

Either way when you're done you should post a link to the short up here.

Captain Chaos

mahamageehad wrote: »

This is the type of reaction I'm talking about. Not that I'm saying your wrong Captain Chaos but it's obviously a controversial and touchy subject with you. So would you feel that this is making cheap entertainment out of a close to the heart issue??

No not at all, its not a touchy subject for me at all, I just not understand or agree with this attitude people tend to have against people you do commit this act and go through with it. I'm fairly sure they are fully aware and have thought about the after effects before they do these things. Thoughs like these have run through my head in the past and do now and again from time to time and its something I've though about long enough, I feel, to appreciate it from both sides of the coin.

mahamageehad

Captain Chaos wrote: »

No not at all, its not a touchy subject for me at all, I just not understand or agree with this attitude people tend to have against people you do commit this act and go through with it. I'm fairly sure they are fully aware and have thought about the after effects before they do these things. Thoughs like these have run through my head in the past and do now and again from time to time and its something I've though about long enough, I feel, to appreciate it from both sides of the coin.

Thanks for the insight. It's a subject I'm really interested in. What is your opinion on the domino effect then- that advertising this kind of activity will promote more people to do it- monkey see, monkey do. Or would you just be able to accept it as what it is- a story?

rizzla wrote: »

Will the film end with the suicide? Leaving it open to discussion and interpretation or will you also be showing how that action would affect the friends and family?

Either way when you're done you should post a link to the short up here.

Yup will do. It'll end with the suicide. I don't think i can do justice to the affects on the family in this limited time frame. Plus i like the idea of it being open for interpretation. I'm hoping to use an average looking guy as the main character so people can think that could be my workmate/flatmate/friend and how would I feel then.

Thanks you guys are great

newbie2

More people commit suicide each year than are killed on our roads.

Anything that can be done to highlight this fact - no matter how graphic/controversial/annoying/interesting/distgusting or unpleasant - should be praised and supported.

GL OP.

I made a short film strikingly similiar to your idea a few years back. it was about a happy 20something man who after a normal day at the office goes home and tidys his apartment before hanging himself from staircase. The few people who saw it were quite offended by the subject matter and felt that I was exploiting the suffering of others. My arguement was that it illistrated the state of mind most suicidial individuals feel fell on deaf ears. Must have a root around for it.

Orim

^^^

Agreed. Anything that highlights the above is a good thing.

I think that it is a great idea and anyone that says it's not is part of the problem. Suicide should not be swept under the rug, it should be out in the open and talked about. Maybe if it was then some people would be more willing to talk about it and we might actual prevent some issues rather then constantly perpetuating the issue.

Your idea and theory sound bang on.

MikeC101

Something I read previously (I think it was a list of themes not to use for student movies) had the top one not to make as "suicide", because it's overused in student films to the point of cliché. (the others were drugs, and gun violence, especially "cute kids find a gun/drugs").

How true that is, I've no idea, but something to be aware of maybe. If it's done well I don't see the problem.

mahamageehad

Deleted User wrote: »

I made a short film strikingly similiar to your idea a few years back. it was about a happy 20something man who after a normal day at the office goes home and tidys his apartment before hanging himself from staircase. The few people who saw it were quite offended by the subject matter and felt that I was exploiting the suffering of others. My arguement was that it illistrated the state of mind most suicidial individuals feel fell on deaf ears. Must have a root around for it.

That would be great thanks!

Anakin.S

It’s a subject that needs to be talked about more.

When I was in 3rd year in school a class mate and friend decided to end his own life.
This happened on our parent / teacher evening and he was not a bad student, he had good marks and always respected teachers.
He was a strong-minded person, he was small for his height but never backed down from anyone if he was under the opinion he was right.
He went through our school day as his usual casual and friendly self and just never came back to school.
As a class we never got over his death, we talked about him as if he was still alive, insisted the seat was still his but people could sit in it and often quoted his most famous line after he poked a finger in someone’s eye when fighting them "You Fight to Hurt Not to Fight".
I sure everyone that knew him had the same thoughts as me. Did I miss something? Should I of said something? Did he say something?

And most importantly

If we did not miss anything then why did he not say something?

BlitzKrieg

The idea I'm dealing with is basically a guy who's going about his day to day life. He goes to work, chats with his friends etc. Seems perfectly normal. Then he goes home and that night he hangs himself. The concept that I'm dealing with here is that suicide is a growing problem, especially in the male 18-25 bracket, and how no-one really knows what's happening in a someone elses head until something like this happens.

I made a short film strikingly similiar to your idea a few years back. it was about a happy 20something man who after a normal day at the office goes home and tidys his apartment before hanging himself from staircase. The few people who saw it were quite offended by the subject matter and felt that I was exploiting the suffering of others. My arguement was that it illistrated the state of mind most suicidial individuals feel fell on deaf ears. Must have a root around for it.

I think the issue is how the suicide is handled. Reading both discriptions there, I can understand how someone mgiht accuse you of *exploiting* because it comes across that the suicide is being used for shock value.

Clearly neither of you were going for shock value, but that is the challange, its a complicated subject and going from two different extremes with no bridge is simple on the same terms as a slasher flick.

Now at the same time, I dont think its a bad idea or a taboo subject, but it is one that would need to be maticulously crafted in all aspects. There is little more offputting in a film then having a social message fumbled in the presentation.

Personnally I would consider scripting the social aspect of the first portion of the film from the perspective of the friends, family and co workers. Mostly because combined they get such a warped disjointed perspective of the positives and curious elements of the protaganists life, which will clash with the latter revelation in the film. Keeping the focus on those around him rather then squarely on him, emphasizes the issue that no one really knows what is happening in his head because its their perspective of him, that aspect that he willingly shows to them and not the full picture.


just my 2 cents

Morlar

mahamageehad wrote: »

The idea I'm dealing with is basically a guy who's going about his day to day life. He goes to work, chats with his friends etc. Seems perfectly normal. Then he goes home and that night he hangs himself. The concept that I'm dealing with here is that suicide is a growing problem, especially in the male 18-25 bracket, and how no-one really knows what's happening in a someone elses head until something like this happens.

I don't think anyone would be put off by the subject matter by itself. I think the general feeling would be that this is something that would deserve to be treated with respect. Obviously you mentioned this is a 3 minute short and in that context depending on how it is handled - it could turn out very well. However going from the premise & the tone you have outlined that sounds to be exploitative, self advancement at the expense of a serious topic, and also lacking in any kind of insight, basically it sounds like it could turn out to be more gimmicky than anything else. Sorry for being negative but that is my opinion based on what you have posted.

When I read your post I started to think about films with this subject matter and the one that sticks out for me as being memorable is this one which gets a channel 4 airing every few years.

Bodhidharma

I don't find the idea of this interesting or disgusting. The problem you will have, as far as I can see, is that with three minutes you aren't going to be able to produce anything other than a montage of a guy's day and then he kills himself. It isn't a particularly original or interesting proposal to me.

As far as people getting offended by it, so what? You can't please everyone.

If you're trying to make some sort of political or social commentary then you really need to do something more substantial.

Anyway, it sounds like you're quite involved and have the best of intentions so I say good luck with it.

keefg

It's a fairly hot topic as well lately. I've seen and heard of 3 other Irish short films made very recently where suicide or the aftermath of it is the central plot.

argosy2006

some films make things look kool, that are not kool in real life,,ie say school shootings, ,,guys playing out stuff they see in movies,,,,
so it would suck if someone played out what they see in your movie,,your film would be better if it looked like he killed him self,,ie you play that out in film like its happening,,,but then switch to shot of the guy and make it look like it was ALL IN HIS HEAD ,WHAT HE WAS THINKING BUT DIDNT DO,,,and finish with a ending that makes suicide not a good option,,and make the issues that the guy had become resolved,, because people kill them self over very tiny things that can be easily resolved if they let people know what there thinkin,,,,,

niallon

Your thread title says it all mahamageehad. Uncomfortable. I've been involved in several short films over the last three or four years and from the point of subject matter we make a note to pick taboo subjects and areas usually left untouched. At the end of the day, so long as they are handled tastefully you will always be greeted with a silent appreciation. Nobody will be able to applaud you for choosing the subject matter but they will all appreciate. Some day we may lift the stigma attached to discussing such matters but for now people just have to keep trying to understand instead of ignoring.

Kolya

It's a good idea. Will show that we can't always know what's going on inside someones head. Anything to highlight the issue is good.

mahamageehad

been a while since i've been here, thanks a mill for your comments guys, all taken on board.

DWCommuter

mahamageehad wrote: »

been a while since i've been here, thanks a mill for your comments guys, all taken on board.

Ive just finished a short film about a murder-suicide event which is probably even more taboo. Ive discovered this thread tonight on a google search after being accused in a very stinging email of being exploitative.

The film itself has only just come through its final cut as of last weekend. However we did screen it over the last four months at various events and online to guage reaction. The film had an original running time of 30 mins. We cut this back to 25 mins before showing it to anyone. Criticisms differed depending on who we showed it to. Other filmmakers felt it had too much dialogue or was too long. We reasoned that back story was important if the murder suicide event was to be justified in the story. Joe public viewers appreciated it as it was. So we examined ways to shorten it again (from a filmmaking and festival perspective) without losing the effectiveness it generated for an ordinary audience. We managed to shave off another 5 mins and now its a tight 20 min film. Nowhere along the line did anyone accuse us of being exploitative (until tonight. I'll come back to that) as we had written a story that built up to the event. Our murder/suicide scene is graphic so it was important that we clearly set out the reasons why the event took place.

Covering a subject like suicide in 3 mins is difficult if the suicide event comes out of the blue. People will accuse you of using shock tactics. Our suicide scene was out of the blue, but as I said we have clearly set out potential reasons in a 16 min lead up. So be careful in how you deal with it. Our film was designed to be uncomforatble in terms of actually showing the murder/suicide event as opposed to suggesting it. Personally I make no apology for that eventhough it could have been made even more shocking if we wished.

As a version of our film has been available to view online for the past few weeks and screened in public twice, it was inevitable that someone somewhere would take offence and the email I received tonight was very heated. But you deal with these things. I've stuck a link to the trailer below. It doesn't reveal that a murder suicide event will happen, but it does demonstrate some of the lengths we went to in order to justify out ending.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnJQlXI50CY

stevenmu

Personally I'd feel uncomfortable watching it, but that's not a bad thing. You're not trying to make a summer blockbuster that's suitable for all the family. You're exploring film making as part of a course. Film making is art, and art (in a very simplistic point of view) is about communicating and evoking emotions. I'd imagine that a large part of your course is how to manage that and this seems like a good way to do it.

faceman

If you want to do this right, you should get some input or affiliation from suicide support groups who can ensure your film best captures the reality of suicide and it's impact.

ScumLord

rizzla wrote: »

I wouldn't feel uncomfortable about it, but then my opinion on people who commit suicide is that their the most selfish people in the world.

I don't know about that, living through a depression just to appease your family and friends is torture. It's just as selfish for everyone to expect them to be unhappy just to suit them.

mahamageehad wrote: »

The problem is that I've been met with very mixed reviews about this. It's been deemed everything from "interesting" to "disgusting". I just want to know if anyone here would have any specific issues with a short film of this nature. I think most people are afraid it'll hit too close to home for someone actually affected by a young suicide.

Isn't inspiring debate the whole point?

AnonoBoy

I'd like to point out that suicide is a much-covered topic in student films. I have seen lots and lots (mainly by 1st years) that end with or feature a suicide so I would imagine your lecturers will be thinking "here we go again" when they watch it.

That's not to say you can't do it well but just be warned that it's not going to be something ground-breaking that they haven't seen before.

rizzla

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't know about that, living through a depression just to appease your family and friends is torture. It's just as selfish for everyone to expect them to be unhappy just to suit them.

So your saying the way to cure this depression is to just kill yourself?

tech77

MikeC101 wrote: »

because it's overused in student films to the point of cliché. (the others were drugs, and gun violence, especially "cute kids find a gun/drugs").

How true that is, I've no idea, but something to be aware of maybe. If it's done well I don't see the problem.

I would say this is the important thing.
If the OP's short shows the terrible grim reality of suicide and in no way glamorises it, i wouldn't see a problem.

But you'd have to know your stuff tbh.

iguana

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Personnally I would consider scripting the social aspect of the first portion of the film from the perspective of the friends, family and co workers. Mostly because combined they get such a warped disjointed perspective of the positives and curious elements of the protaganists life, which will clash with the latter revelation in the film. Keeping the focus on those around him rather then squarely on him, emphasizes the issue that no one really knows what is happening in his head because its their perspective of him, that aspect that he willingly shows to them and not the full picture.

That's exactly what I was thinking. If the theme of the movie is that nobody knows exactly why people kill themselves and that their friends and family didn't see the signs, then it's best to show it from their perspective.

Touch Fuzzy Get Dizzy

I think more people should be made of aware of these things so fair play for thinking of the idea, I'd love to see it.
Good luck : D

rovert

The lack of originality is the only thing abhorrent to me. What a cliched premise.

L31mr0d

rizzla wrote: »

but then my opinion on people who commit suicide is that their the most selfish people in the world.

Wow... how pathetically uninformed this opinion is.

"The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling." - David Foster Wallace

kumate_champ07

newbie2 wrote: »

More people commit suicide each year than are killed on our roads.

Anything that can be done to highlight this fact - no matter how graphic/controversial/annoying/interesting/distgusting or unpleasant - should be praised and supported.

GL OP.

the government are drastically reducing the legal alcohol level for driving, this year during the first 3 months suicide has increased 42% compared to the same period last year. whats the government doing about that?

rovert

L31mr0d wrote: »

Wow... how pathetically uninformed this opinion is.

Technically it isnt his opinion it is just simplistic received opinion.

OutlawPete

mahamageehad wrote: »

The problem is that I've been met with very mixed reviews about this.

You'll get mixed reviews about everything.

I bet those that turned their nose up at it will be the very ones who'll pay €10 to Couples Retreat and think it's amazing. I enjoyed your post more than that movie so if your seeking opinions make sure it's from people who might pay to see a short film in the IFI or similar at least.

Someone mentioned that people that commit suicide are the "most selfish people in the world" - well, not to effect your work, but I hope that's not the impression that you will be trying to put forth.

Suicide is committed by all sorts of people and of the ones that I have know at least, they were some of the kindest people who for whatever reason took their own life. To label everyone who does so as selfish is just wrong in my eyes.

To be fair to the poster, it is not the first time that I have heard this and I doubt it will be the last.

I heard one family member say this about their brother, that he the guy was selfish and how could he etc and the irony of all was that it was the brother who was the selfish one - he treated him like crap, made his life a misery. I kept my mouth shut and just put it down to the grief he as going through.

One suicide on film that comes to mind is the guy in The Shawshank Redemption - I thought that was so well handled, as did the book that it was based on.

Anyway, best of luck with it.

SheRa

I was loking for something entirely different in this forum and came across this. It would make me uncomfortable as a portrayal of suicide can lead to copycat behaviour. But thats not to say that you shouldn't do it, if you are responsible about it. This document is very useful for anyone reporting on or making a film, programme etc about suicide. http://www.ias.ie/docs/MediaGuidelinesFinal.pdf

Edit: i know that its just for an assignment and not for the media, but you never know how people may be feeling in your class that are watching your video.

MistyCheese

rizzla wrote: »

I wouldn't feel uncomfortable about it, but then my opinion on people who commit suicide is that their the most selfish people in the world.

That's fascinating, but would the OP also like to have included the view of someone whose mother comitted suicide when they were 3?

DWCommuter

The opinions here fascinate me, so have a look at this short film.

http://www.vimeo.com/7488934

Raekwon

rizzla wrote: »

So your saying the way to cure this depression is to just kill yourself?

You make it sound like the person wouldn't give it a second thought.

TherapyBoy

Good luck with your short film, I'd like to see it, also I'd like to see maybe a sister piece from the subjects POV, so you get how the world see's him in the first 3 minutes, and how he saw the world in the next.

itarumaa

The biggest problem with the idea is that it have been done 1001 times,

I have done enough movies to know that if you do not know how to finish the movie (what happens to leading character) then suicide/murder is always a simple and effective idea.

But it is also easy way out (to finish the film).