Ireland squad announced for July training camp

chupacabra

IRELAND SQUAD (Summer Training Camp, Belfast, July 26-29, 2009):

Backs (17) -

Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster)
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster)
Gavin Duffy (Galwegians/Connacht)
Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster)
Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Felix Jones (Seapoint/Munster)
Ian Keatley (Galwegians/Connacht)
Fergus McFadden (UCD/Leinster)
Barry Murphy (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Johne Murphy (Leicester Tigers)
Niall O'Connor (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
Ian Whitten (Ballymena/Ulster)

Forwards (19) -

Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)
Ryan Caldwell (Dungannon/Ulster)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
Denis Fogarty (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)
Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)
Shane Jennings (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht)
Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Niall Ronan (Shannon/Munster)
Mike Ross (Unallocated/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht)

Crash

Surprised to see no Reddan in the backs.

danthefan

Crash wrote: »

Surprised to see no Reddan in the backs.

Or Rory Best in the forwards.

I also wonder what Fionn Carr will have to do for a bit of recognition. Scoring 12 tries while playing in a terrible team obviously isn't enough.

Stev_o

So basically Ireland A training camp, these players will benefit from it. Great for Wilkinson he'd be a great edition to the Irish squad.

Robbo

Stev_o wrote: »

So basically Ireland A training camp, these players will benefit from it. Great for Wilkinson he'd be a great edition to the Irish squad.

Wilkinson trained at some stage with the squad around the 6N but wasn't qualified at that stage. Great that he's being recognised for development as he has a huge potential.

phog

danthefan wrote: »

Or Rory Best in the forwards.

I also wonder what Fionn Carr will have to do for a bit of recognition. Scoring 12 tries while playing in a terrible team obviously isn't enough.

Don't know about Reddan or Carr but afaik Best will be on honeymoon.

Size=everything

How Dowling or Hurley got ahead of Carr I'll never know and why oh why is Mick O'Driscoll there once again? Sean O'Brien?? criminally overlooked. (unless hes still injured from CC?)

Good to see Ross finally get some recognition from the IRFU.

But god damnit Dowling, Hurley and MOD do not deserve to be there. Sick of these below average players getting ahead of players such as Fionn Carr.

thomond2006

Back Three
Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster)
Gavin Duffy (Galwegians/Connacht)
Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster)
Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Felix Jones (Seapoint/Munster)
Johne Murphy (Leicester Tigers)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)

Centres
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Fergus McFadden (UCD/Leinster)
Barry Murphy (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
Ian Whitten (Ballymena/Ulster)

Fly Halves
Ian Keatley (Galwegians/Connacht)
Niall O'Connor (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)

Scrum Halves
Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster)
Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)



Props
Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)
Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht)
Mike Ross (Unallocated/Leinster)

Hookers
Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
Denis Fogarty (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Second Rows
Ryan Caldwell (Dungannon/Ulster)
Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)

Back Rows
Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)
Shane Jennings (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht)
Niall Ronan (Shannon/Munster)

itsallaboutheL

One real question i'd have is what is Denis Fogarty doing there??

IMO he's a very good AIL player that should stay there

Stev_o

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

One real question i'd have is what is Denis Fogarty doing there??

IMO he's a very good AIL player that should stay there

Development.

People seem forget that this whole training camp is trying to invest in these players and make them better as a result of the experience they got from training at such a high level.

dreamer_ire

Any idea where this will happen or if the sessions are open to the public?

rockman15

why in the name of god is mick o'driscoll in that squad. when will they cop to the fact he is utterly useless in every aspect of the game. 5 second rows and 5 backrow players? sure that isnt even enough back row players to start a match!!! o'brien left out for him is utterly criminal

chupacabra

dreamer_ire wrote: »

Any idea where this will happen or if the sessions are open to the public?

Belfast and i dunno.

chupacabra

rockman15 wrote: »

why in the name of god is mick o'driscoll in that squad. when will they cop to the fact he is utterly useless in every aspect of the game. 5 second rows and 5 backrow players? sure that isnt even enough back row players to start a match!!! o'brien left out for him is utterly criminal

Christ sake, its a TRAINING CAMP. MOD will be there along with other older players to impart experience and knowledge to the younger lads. With the way ye are talking you'd swear this was a 6 nations squad announcement.... :mad:

Size=everything

chupacabra wrote: »

Christ sake, its a TRAINING CAMP. MOD will be there along with other older players to impart experience and knowledge to the younger lads. With the way ye are talking you'd swear this was a 6 nations squad announcement.... :mad:

And Cullen, Flannery, Horan, Jennings, Stringer and Horgan aren't enough experience between them? The fact is MOD is past it and besides if MOD is there for experience why not put a far better, more experienced player in MOK there instead? Its bull****. If his selection was for experience then MOK was the logical choice. The fact is I would prefer even players such as McIreney (promising second row just signed for Ospreys) or Kevin McLaughlin there instead training with the squad to gain experience as it would be more beneficial than having an aging, not international standard journey man in the squad. And to think his inclusion might of even been the reason a player like Fionn Carr missed out.

And if I find out Sean O'Brien is fit and not selected I will be fuming :mad:

rockman15

Size=everything wrote: »

And Cullen, Flannery, Horan, Jennings, Stringer and Horgan aren't enough experience between them? The fact is MOD is past it and besides if MOD is there for experience why not put a far better, more experienced player in MOK there instead? Its bull****. If his selection was for experience then MOK was the logical choice. The fact is I would prefer even players such as McIreney (promising second row just signed for Ospreys) or Kevin McLaughlin there instead training with the squad to gain experience as it would be more beneficial than having an aging, not international standard journey man in the squad. And to think his inclusion might of even been the reason a player like Fionn Carr missed out.

And if I find out Sean O'Brien is fit and not selected I will be fuming :mad:

my sentiments exactlly.....even more so if bob casey isnt injured or validly unavailable. theres a guy who should be in any irish squad

Stev_o

Christ, people are making mountains out of nothing here. Also it's very hypocritical for some people to suggest MOD shouldn't be there because he's old and then suggest MOK should be there instead! O'Brien is injured for the record.

siltirocker

i believe Fionn Carr is still injured from the 1st CC game.

Brilliant for Brett Wilkinson, if all goes to plan he will be a Kidney masterstroke!

bleg

Stev_o wrote: »

Christ, people are making mountains out of nothing here. Also it's very hypocritical for some people to suggest MOD shouldn't be there because he's old and then suggest MOK should be there instead! O'Brien is injured for the record.

Exactly, both have grand slam medals, both good experienced players.

Don't know if Horan will have much experience in the second row...

Size=everything

Stev_o wrote: »

Christ, people are making mountains out of nothing here. Also it's very hypocritical for some people to suggest MOD shouldn't be there because he's old and then suggest MOK should be there instead! O'Brien is injured for the record.

No its not its saying if your going to pick an old second row why not pick a far better and more experienced old second row.

chupacabra

Size=everything wrote: »

No its not its saying if your going to pick an old second row why not pick a far better and more experienced old second row.

Have you stopped and thought that maybe MOK has decided to hang up his international boots? Or that maybe Kidney has wiped his hands of him after he was dropped during the six nations?

Size=everything

chupacabra wrote: »

Have you stopped and thought that maybe MOK has decided to hang up his international boots? Or that maybe Kidney has wiped his hands of him after he was dropped during the six nations?

So why have MOD there? MOD will more than likely be retiring in the next 1-2 seasons and is nowhere near the standard required for international level anyway. MOK on the otherhand is good enough to start for Ireland if POC or DOC got injured and has more experience. How anyone can defend MOD's selection for an Irish squad is bad enough but over someone like MOK is just ridiculous.

danthefan

I don't even see the point of publicising this to be honest. Very very few of the players will be challenging for starting spots, Flannery, Horan and maybe Stringer of TOL doesn't recover in time, and that's it.

Size=everything

danthefan wrote: »

I don't even see the point of publicising this to be honest. Very very few of the players will be challenging for starting spots, Flannery, Horan and maybe Stringer of TOL doesn't recover in time, and that's it.

On the contray I think Sexton and Healy should 100% be starting ahead of O'Gara and Horan and theres a case with Wallace getting on and Jennings superb form this season to give him a run.

Whether we'll see Kidney allow them to challenge for a spot is another issue however :rolleyes:

thehighground

Size=everything wrote: »

No its not its saying if your going to pick an old second row why not pick a far better and more experienced old second row.

Mal was dropped during the 6Ns for poor time keeping. Hardly a good example to have around the camp which is only 3 days anyway and doesn't have any of those who were on the Lions Tour.

This is probably more for the Ireland management finalising who the fringe players are and whether they are worth an international contract or not as at a guess, there is a limit to the number of international contracts they can award. People like MOD will have a contract from last year, but if you look at the IRFU Ireland squad on their website, players like Neil Best, Boss, Trimble, Sexton and a few others are not included in the Ireland squad.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/15889_15892.php

Size=everything

thehighground wrote: »

Mal was dropped during the 6Ns for poor time keeping. Hardly a good example to have around the camp which is only 3 days anyway and doesn't have any of those who were on the Lions Tour.

This is probably more for the Ireland management finalising who the fringe players are and whether they are worth an international contract or not as at a guess, there is a limit to the number of international contracts they can award. People like MOD will have a contract from last year, but if you look at the IRFU Ireland squad on their website, players like Neil Best, Boss, Trimble, Sexton and a few others are not included in the Ireland squad.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/15889_15892.php

In that case MOK would have an international contract as well from last year.
Turning up late for training once in an international career spanning over a decade shouldn't blackmark a player for the rest of their career was it not Flannery who lost track of time doing his hair and was late for a training session? Yet I didn't see Flannery thrown out of all contention.

In my eyes I didn't want either of them and if they were so insistent on bringing another second row then would of preferred to see a young prospect such as McIreney get the experience of training with an Irish squad rather than having a journey man but if you wanted another experienced second row then for gods sake go for MOK hes twice the player MOD is!

Also Neil Best is another player... where is he???

Stev_o

Club commitments, injury personal reasons god knows. Seriously it's just a training camp not a fecking RWC squad.

thehighground

Size=everything wrote: »

In that case MOK would have an international contract as well from last year.

Probably was on a short one from last year - considering his age.[/QUOTE]

Turning up late for training once in an international career spanning over a decade shouldn't blackmark a player for the rest of their career was it not Flannery who lost track of time doing his hair and was late for a training session? Yet I didn't see Flannery thrown out of all contention.

I doubt if it was the first time - Mal is well known for his rather relaxed view about being on time. Flannery was late for a meeting, not training. Being late for training means the pack training is disrupted - far more serious and obviously something Gert Smal was not going to tolerate.

In my eyes I didn't want either of them and if they were so insistent on bringing another second row then would of preferred to see a young prospect such as McIreney get the experience of training with an Irish squad rather than having a journey man but if you wanted another experienced second row then for gods sake go for MOK hes twice the player MOD is!

MOK is probably retired now I'd say from international rugby and replaced by Leo Cullen. MOD is younger than Leo Cullen - and obviously is a top professional who can play 2nd & Backrow and plays club rugby with Ireland's first choice Locks & Hooker.

Also Neil Best is another player... where is he???

Probably in Northampton where, like most English based players, he probably could not get the time off from his English club.

Size=everything

thehighground wrote: »

Probably was on a short one from last year - considering his age.

Nope hes there on the list. But don't let that stop you from making assumptions to suit your agenda. Probably on a short one from last year considering his age lol

I doubt if it was the first time - Mal is well known for his rather relaxed view about being on time. Flannery was late for a meeting, not training. Being late for training means the pack training is disrupted - far more serious and obviously something Gert Smal was not going to tolerate.

Once again a complete and utter lie MOK is not well known for being late and I know this for a fact, once again you are completely making up things to suit your agenda, pathetic. And Flannery late for a team meeting is just as bad.

MOK is probably retired now I'd say from international rugby and replaced by Leo Cullen. MOD is younger than Leo Cullen - and obviously is a top professional who can play 2nd & Backrow and plays club rugby with Ireland's first choice Locks & Hooker.

MOK is not retired from international rugby for the third time in your reply you once again make an assumption to prove your agenda. MOD is younger but is nowhere near international standard and can't even get his game for a provincial side unlike Cullen and MOK.


Out of interest why do you feel the need to make things up to prove your argument?

wixfjord

Not hard to know where your provincial support lies size=everything!
Basically every post you have made in this has been pro leinster or anti munster!

Size=everything

wixfjord wrote: »

Not hard to know where your provincial support lies size=everything!
Basically every post you have made in this has been pro leinster or anti munster!

Oh I see so saying MOK is a better player than MOD is me just being pro leinster? come off it its common sense I could just as easily argue that someone defending MOKs choice is pro Munster but of course I won't. Its this type of thinking that has made the forum go to ****. You criticise one player and suddenly its because your support a certain province :rolleyes:

thomond2006

MOD > MOK right now.

End of.

danthefan

thomond2006 wrote: »

MOD > MOK right now.

End of.

You must have mentally blocked out the Heineken Cup. That's ok, I understand.

Edit - look at him there, all tired after actually playing a final.

thomond2006

danthefan wrote: »

You must have mentally blocked out the Heineken Cup. That's ok, I understand.

The what now?

Size=everything

thomond2006 wrote: »

MOD > MOK right now.

End of.

Yes a player who doesn't even start for his province is better than a player who played a pivital role in winning the Heineken Cup, playing every game he was fit for and playing in fantastic form throughtout as well riiiiiiight.......

thehighground

Size=everything wrote: »

Nope hes there on the list. But don't let that stop you from making assumptions to suit your agenda. Probably on a short one from last year considering his age lol

That is last year's squad. As I've pointed out to you, the squad for this year has to be updated. Some people who were in last year's 6Ns squad like Alan Quinlan (Quinlan was in the 6Ns travelling squad, along with Keith Earls for the Wales game), on age grounds, will probably not make it again. Mal is 35 - he is going to be on a season-to-season contract with Leinster, let alone Ireland. Once a player hits 30, the contracts start getting shorter.

Once again a complete and utter lie MOK is not well known for being late and I know this for a fact, once again you are completely making up things to suit your agenda, pathetic. And Flannery late for a team meeting is just as bad.

I didn't say MOK was well known for being late.What I said was that MOK is well known having a very relaxed attitude to time keeping - if you read any player biographies they nearly all comment on how laid back he is (and certainly in someone's biography they mentioned Mal being found in the dressing room either meditating/asleep prior to training once while everyone was out waiting for him). I would also like to add here that Mal seems to be well liked and respected by everyone.

There is a big difference between being late for training (in Italy - so there would have been no one else to pull into training) and being late for a meeting, which is what Flannery was late for if you have a look at the video on youtube again).

MOK is not retired from international rugby for the third time in your reply you once again make an assumption to prove your agenda. MOD is younger but is nowhere near international standard and can't even get his game for a provincial side unlike Cullen and MOK.

Has Mal played a game for Ireland since he was dropped for the Italy game for his time keeping this year?

Out of interest why do you feel the need to make things up to prove your argument?

Would you ever learn to figure out the difference between what is fact & what is opinion. Thanks. (hint: when you see words like 'probably' means it is opinion).

danthefan

So in your opinion MOK is retired from international rugby?

Eh.... what?

thehighground

Size=everything wrote: »

Yes a player who doesn't even start for his province is better than a player who played a pivital role in winning the Heineken Cup, playing every game he was fit for and playing in fantastic form throughtout as well riiiiiiight.......

Mal & Leo would not be ahead of POC & DOC in the pecking order (Look at the international team). MOD played a pivotel role in winning the Heineken Cup for Munster in 2008. He also played a pivotel role in winning the Magners League last year (have a look at who received the Magners Cup, along with the Club Captain). Thats right. Mick O'Driscoll.

Size=everything

thehighground wrote: »

That is last year's squad. As I've pointed out to you, the squad for this year has to be updated. Some people who were in last year's 6Ns squad like Alan Quinlan (Quinlan was in the 6Ns travelling squad, along with Keith Earls for the Wales game), on age grounds, will probably not make it again. Mal is 35 - he is going to be on a season-to-season contract with Leinster, let alone Ireland. Once a player hits 30, the contracts start getting shorter.

Nope he still has a contract. Sorry mate.

I didn't say MOK was well known for being late.What I said was that MOK is well known having a very relaxed attitude to time keeping - if you read any player biographies they nearly all comment on how laid back he is (and certainly in someone's biography they mentioned Mal being found in the dressing room either meditating/asleep prior to training once while everyone was out waiting for him).

LOL so as some players have said that MOK is very laid back you instantly have come to the conclusion that he is regularly late for training. That is absolutely hilarious.

There is a big difference between being late for training (in Italy - so there would have been no one else to pull into training) and being late for a meeting, which is what Flannery was late for if you have a look at the video on youtube again).

Why? It's holding up the time either way and besides you don't know his circumstances for being late and I would assume they were far more understandable than making sure his hair looked good (and to think BOD got stick for his hair )

Has Mal played a game for Ireland since he was dropped for the Italy game for his time keeping this year?

LOL so you have come to the conclusion that he is no longer contracted to the IRFU? Once again hilarious logic

Would you ever learn to figure out the difference between what is fact & what is opinion. Thanks. (hint: when you see words like 'probably' means it is opinion).

It's the fact that you stat opinions as facts i.e MOK is laid back so you say he is regularly known for being late to training. MOK doesnt start 6 nation games so you say he is not contracted anymore to the IRFU etc.

Size=everything

thehighground wrote: »

Mal & Leo would not be ahead of POC & DOC in the pecking order (Look at the international team). MOD played a pivotel role in winning the Heineken Cup for Munster in 2008. He also played a pivotel role in winning the Magners League last year (have a look at who received the Magners Cup, along with the Club Captain). Thats right. Mick O'Driscoll.

How does that change any of my points? I'll restate them if you want..

MOK starts regularly for Leinster, MOD doesn't. I don't care why MOD doesn't start but the fact is MOK is the one playing regularly and at HC level.

MOK played a pivital role in the HC winning side and played brilliantly throughout. MOD may have played well in 2008 but we judge players on recent performances not performances from 2 years ago. MOK looked better than MOD in the HC (much higher level) than MOD did in the ML.

MOK is simply a better player. Theres a reason he was called up in the first place ahead of MOK for the 6 nations and why he keeps Toner out of the squad. If Leinster's second rows were Toner, MOD and Cullen I can guarantee you the starting pair would be Cullen and Toner. MOK was late once in over a decade of an international career the fact that he missed the entire 6 N because of it is punishment enough excluding him now for a lesser player is being very, very petty.

Amazotheamazing

Size=everything wrote: »

MOK was late once in over a decade of an international career.

That's not true, EOS let MOK get away with being late, Kidney doesn't, though even EOS had to discipline MOK after a late night boozing session on a winter training camp. It's MOK's own fault his career has ended.

Size=everything

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

That's not true, EOS let MOK get away with being late, Kidney doesn't, though even EOS had to discipline MOK after a late night boozing session on a winter training camp. It's MOK's own fault his career has ended.

Source for MOK ever being late more than once please and examples of EOS repeatedly letting MOK away with being late?

thehighground

Size=everything wrote: »

Nope he still has a contract. Sorry mate.

Think it might be up - doubtful he will get another one after turning up late to a 6Ns training session.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/6855_5366.php

LOL so as some players have said that MOK is very laid back you instantly have come to the conclusion that he is regularly late for training. That is absolutely hilarious.

I haven't come to any conclusions - its what ex-team mates of Mal have all said - and that is that he is a very laid back bloke who might be found asleep in the dressing room when he should be training (among other things). Some coaches might not tolerate that as well as others.

Why? It's holding up the time either way and besides you don't know his circumstances for being late and I would assume they were far more understandable than making sure his hair looked good (and to think BOD got stick for his hair )

I've a fair idea that he would not be dropped for being late for training once. Anyway, the Flannery thing was back when either EOS or Bradley were in charge. The Kidney regime is obviously less tollerant of bad timekeeping. Obviously Flannery learned from his mistake.

LOL so you have come to the conclusion that he is no longer contracted to the IRFU? Once again hilarious logic

See link above.

It's the fact that you stat opinions as facts i.e MOK is laid back so you say he is regularly known for being late to training. MOK doesnt start 6 nation games so you say he is not contracted anymore to the IRFU etc.

No, its my opinion that as far as I can figure out that due to age, a good supply of other Locks and Mal blotting his copybook with the new Irish management, that the IRFU will probably not renew Mal's international contract for the coming season.

Size=everything

thehighground wrote: »

Think it might be up - doubtful he will get another one after turning up late to a 6Ns training session.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/6855_5366.php

Odd how it says his contract would finish up in the 2007/2008 season yet he still was picked for Ireland in the 2008/2009 season. Believe me he has contract for this season.

I haven't come to any conclusions - its what ex-team mates of Mal have all said - and that is that he is a very laid back bloke who might be found asleep in the dressing room when he should be training (among other things). Some coaches might not tolerate that as well as others.

So because ex team mates said he was laid back you decide that means that he is regularly late for training?? Unbelievable. I'm sure MOK falling asleep in the dressing room is a regular occurance alright. LOL.

I've a fair idea that he would not be dropped for being late for training once. Anyway, the Flannery thing was back when either EOS or Bradley were in charge. The Kidney regime is obviously less tollerant of bad timekeeping. Obviously Flannery learned from his mistake.

It doesn't matter. Flannery has been late for a team meeting in the past. MOK has been late once and has serviced his country with pride for over a decade. He missed out on the entire 6 N for one mistake and suddenly you think he should not be in the Irish squad ever again and that a lesser player should be ahead of him? Extremely petty and ridiculous IMO.

see link above

Seen it and yet he still played in the 2008/2009 season so your assumption that MOK has retired is completely off. I'm sure MOK would be shocked to hear he has retired from international rugby by the way maybe you should tell him??

No, its my opinion that as far as I can figure out that due to age, a good supply of other Locks and Mal blotting his copybook with the new Irish management, that the IRFU will probably not renew Mal's international contract for the coming season.

But, but I thought you said MOK had retired from international rugby.... Whats going on?

thehighground

Size=everything

Its like trying to hold mercury with a fork as discuss anything with you.

This is what I posted. I suggest you re-read what was said in the thread.

[Mal] Probably was on a short one from last year - considering his age.

1. Now, since you claim to know everything, how come Mal was not in Belfast for this Ireland camp?

2. Did he play in any games after France this season?

3. If not, why not?

4. Do you think Mal is a better lock than Cullen?

5. Could you please post a link announcing Mal's new contract extention to
a) Ireland
b) Leinster

Thanks.

Size=everything

thehighground wrote: »

1. Now, since you claim to know everything, how come Mal was not in Belfast for this Ireland camp?

Because Kidney wrongly decided to pick MOD over him.

2. Did he play in any games after France this season?

3. If not, why not?

Because he was late for training once. Not because he retired.

4. Do you think Mal is a better lock than Cullen?

No and I never said that. I do however think he is much, much better than MOD

5. Could you please post a link announcing Mal's new contract extention to
a) Ireland
b) Leinster

Thanks.

On the IRFU site he is currently listed as an IRFU player. The onus is on you to prove he has retired from international rugby.

Also,
Reporter : Will you be retiring?
MOK : No sure theres a recession on!

So according to the IRFU and MOK himself he is not retired. Yet in your opinion he is? Odd..

thehighground

Size=everything wrote: »

On the IRFU site he is currently listed as an IRFU player. The onus is on you to prove he has retired from international rugby.

Also,
Reporter : Will you be retiring?
MOK : No sure theres a recession on!

So according to the IRFU and MOK himself he is not retired. Yet in your opinion he is? Odd..

Sexton is not in that list, yet he is in Belfast. Which is why I think this camp in Belfast is more about the Irish management deciding who will be in the Ireland squad for the coming season (and there won't be unlimited numbers of Locks in it or Full Backs for that matter).

With regard to Mal's talk of not retiring because of the recession. How do you know that he was referring to Leinster AND Ireland and just not Leinster?

Size=everything

thehighground wrote: »

Sexton is not in that list, yet he is in Belfast. Which is why I think this camp in Belfast is more about the Irish management deciding who will be in the Ireland squad for the coming season (and there won't be unlimited numbers of Locks in it or Full Backs for that matter).

Sexton hasn't been given an international contract yet...

With regard to Mal's talk of not retiring because of the recession. How do you know that he was referring to Leinster AND Ireland and just not Leinster?

How do you know he wasnt? Once again prove that MOK has retired? Are you saying because MOK isn't in the Belfast squad that he is no longer contracted to the IRFU? If thats the case then a lot of our best, most experienced players have seemingly retired as well.

thehighground

Size=everything wrote: »

Sexton hasn't been given an international contract yet...

... and he is in Belfast without an international contract.

How do you know he wasnt?

Because it is usually announced when contracts have been renewed. Mal could be on a pay-per-play for all you know at this stage.

Once again prove that MOK has retired? Are you saying because MOK isn't in the Belfast squad that he is no longer contracted to the IRFU? If thats the case then a lot of our best, most experienced players have seemingly retired as well.

Mal was dropped from the international squad. We haven't seen him in a green shirt since. He hasn't been called up to the camp in Belfast, unlike Leo Cullen & Mick O'Driscoll. Mal COULD have broken his international contract with the IRFU by being late - depends on the contract he has with the IRFU.

As for missing players - 14 or so of them are on leave because of the Lions Tour. Others might have it found it difficult to get released from their English clubs or are injured.

How many times do I have to post that I think the Irish management are finalising their squad in Belfast for the 2009-10 season.

Size=everything

thehighground wrote: »

... and he is in Belfast without an international contract.

Still doesn't prove that MOK has retired from internation rugby.

Because it is usually announced when contracts have been renewed. Mal could be on a pay-per-play for all you know at this stage.

For all you know he could have a contract and according to the IRFU website he does.

Mal was dropped from the international squad. We haven't seen him in a green shirt since. He hasn't been called up to the camp in Belfast, unlike Leo Cullen & Mick O'Driscoll. Mal COULD have broken his international contract with the IRFU by being late - depends on the contract he has with the IRFU.

There are lots of players that were dropped from the irish squad but still contracted. If every player who gets dropped for a period had retired from international rugby then we would see a lot less players eligable to play for Ireland!

How many times do I have to post that I think the Irish management are finalising their squad in Belfast for the 2009-10 season.

How many times do I have to tell you that you don't know that for a fact and to say MOK has retired from international rugby when he has been contracted to them for the last decade and is according to the official IRFU website still contracted to them is stupid no matter how much you want to make the ridiculous decision of bringing MOD seem just. Your arguments are reminding of the time you flat out made up allegations against Cullen to defend Quinlan in the eye gouging inciddent you seem to just say what you want to believe.

thehighground

Size=everything wrote: »

How many times do I have to tell you that you don't know that for a fact and to say MOK has retired from international rugby when he has been contracted to them for the last decade and is according to the official IRFU website still contracted to them is stupid no matter how much you want to make the ridiculous decision of bringing MOD seem just. Your arguments are reminding of the time you flat out made up allegations against Cullen to defend Quinlan in the eye gouging inciddent you seem to just say what you want to believe.

When did I claim it was a fact? I've posted again and again it was an opinion and suggested you learn the difference. Here are some definitions for you. Please try and understand them.

A fact is a pragmatic truth, a statement that can, at least in theory, be checked and either confirmed or denied. Facts are often contrasted with opinions and beliefs, statements which are held to be true, but are not amenable to pragmatic confirmation or denial.

An opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with evidence, but which cannot be proved with that evidence. It is normally a subjective statement and may be the result of an emotion or an interpretation of facts; people may draw opposing opinions from the same facts.