'Hybrid' Dogs .... WARNING

babystrawberry

I have noticed in recent months there has been a ridiculous increase in the amount of people breeding and selling their so called 'Hybrid' dogs :mad:.

Hybrids dogs are not a breed of a dog, they are a mixture ......essentially the same as what you would get if people choose to go to their local/county dog shelter / sanctuary. These dogs are also a mixture of breeds, the only thing being in that there would not be a paper record of the breeding (which these days is not always given by most breeders either!), however it can be very easy to decipher what cross of breeding there would be from the dogs appearance. (Also note that there are often pedigree breeds to be rehomed in these facilities, not just crossbreeds)

Also these shelters/pounds do not charge a ridiculous amount of money for their pups at most there would be a request for a small donation. It is very infuriating to see people charging amounts like 400 Euros for a pup like a 'shih Tzu x yorkie poo' :mad:. There are 3 different breeds in this pups ancestry already!!!!! This person is charging 400 EUROs for god’s sake, the pup cannot even be registered with the IKC as a pure bred dog. This is not the only ad I have seen, there has been many people looking for ridiculous money for these so called 'designer breeds'. Also Jackchi's (Jack russell terrier crossed with chihuahua) The Jack Russell is itself not even recognised with the IKC and more than likely never will be, they are not IKC reg.

The main problem I have with the hybrids is that, in effect, people are breeding mongrels, which in effect will lead to a possible increase in the amount of unwanted puppies/ strays in the next few years.

If a person decides they still want to purchase this type of dog, they should first ask for a copy of the breeding of the parents(generally if they are pedigree they will have 5 generations of pedigree recorded, from this you will be able to see first off all has there been any inbreeding already done, breeding dogs that are related to each other is very common in the apparent ‘pedigree world’ ad can lead to an increase in the occurance of hereditary diseases). Also research the breeds of the parents of the pups. Look up any illnesses/diseases these breeds are prone to … Example: Pugalier is a Pug crossed with a Cavalier King Charles: Cavalier King Charles Spaniels are prone to MVD (metral valve disease) heart murmurs and also a disease called Syringomyelia (disease of brain and spinal cord causing the dog extreme pain). Also Pugs are prone to Encephalitis, this is an inflammatory, hip dysplasia, severe problems with their back and knees, breathing problems due to their flattened nose. A future owner of a Pugalier should take into consideration all these problems that may be passed on from the parents.
MOST IMPORTANT: no person buying a dog, whether they are pure bred or ‘hybrid’ should buy without getting a vet/health certificate from the breeder. The pup may look happy, playful and healthy, but there are a lot of problems that can only be found by a vet, such as heart murmurs, bad hip score, cleft palate, mal formed knee/hip joints.

I hope this opens the eyes of some people out there and help them be more aware in the future when buying dogs.

PirateShampoo

If someone is willing to pay 400 euro for a mongrel when they can get the same down the dog shelter for free then leave them to it.

Im selling magic beans if anybody is intrested.

Hellrazer

While I do agree its absolutely outrageous for a breeder to charge 400+ euros for what effectively a "mongrel"--(I hate the use of that term) I do think you need to rethink some of your post especially regarding the health effects of so called cross breeding.

The general thought is that pedigrees have more health issues than "mongrels" due to inbreeding from the same lineage and mongrels usually live a lot longer.I have personal experience with both and any "mongrel" Ive ever had,had a lot less health issues than any pedigree Ive ever owned.

Its also generally accepted that introducing a new set of genetics into offspring whether that be pedigree or non pedigree may stop some of these inheirited conditions.

So in saying that your example of a pugalier may never have any of the conditions that show up in a Pug or a Cavalier.

Just my 2 cents on it.

andreac

The thing is if there wasnt a market there for these pups people wouldnt be producing them.
These so called designer breeds seem to be the in thing, but people are very silly to be paying big money for a mongrel/crossbreed really.

But as you say, if someone is willing to hand over 400 for these pups, them let them off!!!

Hellrazer

PirateShampoo wrote: »

If someone is willing to pay 400 euro for a mongrel when they can get the same down the dog shelter for free then leave them to it.

Lets not go down the Pedigree versus Rescue again.Every thread here seems to decend in to a debate about it.

There was a thread here not so long ago about Puggles I think they were called.

Its a different story going in to pick up a mongrel in a pound when you havent a clue what breeds its made up of(labrador cross great dane anyone--I had one that looked tiny as a pub but ended up huge and nuts) than a breeder breeding a "cross breed" where you can tell what its going to look like when it gets older(puggles--small terrier sized and supposedly quite affectionate)

Risarow

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Im selling magic beans if anybody is intrested.

How much for the beans?

You have to admit it's a wonderful marketing strategy. Mix two or more breeds to create a mongrel with an interesting name and the sell it to people with more money than sense.

Anyone for fresh mountain air? I sell it by the jar.

babystrawberry

I totally agree with all your comments, there is a posible chance that hereditary illneses will not be passed onto pups if there is new line brought into the breeding ....it is just the breeders who are doing this that really annoy me, the money they charge :eek:
Also apologies if people find the word 'mongrel' not exactly the right term ...cross breed is probably the better term. I have a mongrel/cross breed myself (lurcher whippet type) and just cannot understand why peole do not choose the rehoming option as opposed to giving these breeders money

Still as you said AndreaC, there seems to be a demand for these 'hybrids', so they will continue to be bred

Hellrazer

Risarow wrote: »

You have to admit it's a wonderful marketing strategy. Mix two or more breeds to create a mongrel with an interesting name and the sell it to people with more money than sense.

Have you even bothered--actually has anyone even bothered to research these so called "designer breeds"

In my opinion there is a difference between these and a so called "mongrel"

Firstly the cross is well controlled ie the dogs are chosen for particular traits-size,temperament,the way they look etc.

Btw does any of this sound familiar to people that breed "pedigrees"--Its exactly the same as how we got so many different so called "breeds" since all so called breeds are decended from a single common ancestor and the reason they split into so many breeds is because of exactly what these so called designer breeders are doing.


Secondly most of these designer breeds are in the process of trying to get recognised by various kennel clubs as "specific breeds" and will have a breed standard.

In the common "mongrel" it could be any mix or match of any breed.So there is a difference in my opinion.

sorella

Has the old name "Heinz dog" died out? As in Heinz 57 varieties?

Some of the old ones here say,"Well he wouldn't get his papers"

Hellrazer

sorella wrote: »

Has the old name "Heinz dog" died out? As in Heinz 57 varieties?

Some of the old ones here say,"Well he wouldn't get his papers"

So youre saying a heinz dog with 57 varieties is the same as a carefully bred for want of a better word "Hybrid"

sorella

Hellrazer wrote: »

So youre saying a heinz dog with 57 varieties is the same as a carefully bred for want of a better word "Hybrid"

peasant

Hellrazer wrote: »

Secondly most of these designer breeds are in the process of trying to get recognised by various kennel clubs as "specific breeds" and will have a breed standard.

...and then the inbreeding and line breeding will start to "fix" the standard, the breed will be shown, only a small amount of show winners will breed and there we are again , yet another sickly breed.

O'Coonassa

Pedigree dogs are far more sickly and prone to serious illness than ordinary mutts/mongrels/hybrids. For some reason though the unhealthy ones are more expensive than the crossbreeds.

ISDW

My issue with it though is people breeding two different breeds that haven't been health tested etc, it may well have been an accidental mating and then calling them by some wonderful made up name. All breeds started off by crossbreeding, of course they did, but only by these breeders keeping proper records, will these dogs go on to become a recognised breed.

Ruby Soho

Many people seem to think that by crossing two pedigrees to get a cross, you get a dog with what's called 'hybrid vigour'. While this has been seen to be true in many cases concerning the common mutt, or heinz 57 variety, it holds no truth when you breed two probably inbred pedigree dogs together, you actually could end up with a pup that's as genetically deformed or wanting as its parents.
I have PERSONALLY seen many of these genetic problems and diseases occurring in many 400 euro designer hybrid, probably as much as in the original pedigree dogs. As they get older (most intentionally crossed dogs are still only young animals) I'm sure I'll see plenty more.
While it would be nice, I'm not saying for a minute that everyone should get a dog from the pound or you'll go to hell, but I just hope that people realise that these crossbreeds do not have an infallible health record, contrary to the claims of their 'responsible' breeders.

Morganna

Most crossbred /mongrels are interbred if u think about it .For example where i live there is a collie called bob who has mated with every unprotected bitch around for miles .Then his offspring are mating each other and he is mating his daughters think about it .

cloudy day

I know what I'd like to give that collie.

cloudy day

Hellraer I agree

I cannot understand why people get so bent out of shape over hybrids. If you don't want one fine, don't buy it.

It's just not good enough anymore to use the " pedigree" argument, it's got more holes than fishnets.

And they are NOT mongrels, They are called HYBRIDS for a reason as they are a Hybridisation of two or more "breeds" F1, F2 etc. Please do your research guys and learn a bit about it to back up your arguments. I'm not a scientist or a vet but I do take the time to study from time to time.

The same thing has been done to cattle, sheep, pigs and horses, for a very good readon. Why not dogs?

Anyway, how do you think the " PEDIGREE BREEDS " came about in the first place. And further more, in this day and age can anyone tell me what is so special about the kennel club in the light of recent publicity to tell most of us what we already knew.

If you can not scientifically say for a FACT, that is years of research or veterinary experience to back you up, that there is absolutely no way hybrids are healthier than the pedigree's then really it should not be said.

Risarow

Hellrazer wrote: »

Have you even bothered--actually has anyone even bothered to research these so called "designer breeds"

In my opinion there is a difference between these and a so called "mongrel"

Firstly the cross is well controlled ie the dogs are chosen for particular traits-size,temperament,the way they look etc.

Btw does any of this sound familiar to people that breed "pedigrees"--Its exactly the same as how we got so many different so called "breeds" since all so called breeds are decended from a single common ancestor and the reason they split into so many breeds is because of exactly what these so called designer breeders are doing.


Secondly most of these designer breeds are in the process of trying to get recognised by various kennel clubs as "specific breeds" and will have a breed standard.

In the common "mongrel" it could be any mix or match of any breed.So there is a difference in my opinion.

Dogs were domesticated as a working animal and most of the cross breeding was done to improve the attributes of any given species, to make it faster, better at flushing, at tracking etc. etc
When dogs are bred to improve their name then questions have to be asked.

Arcadian

Risarow wrote: »

When dogs are bred to improve their name then questions have to be asked.

Which is the only reason these dogs are produced, it's all in the name. Only an idiot would think otherwise.

Magenta

Hellrazer wrote: »

So in saying that your example of a pugalier may never have any of the conditions that show up in a Pug or a Cavalier.

Pugs and Cavaliers are both plagued with health problems.
Just because the parent dogs are two different breeds doesn't mean you're magically going to have healthy pups.
Mixing mucky water from one cup with mucky water from another cup gives you... mucky water.

cloudy day

Hellrazer wrote: »

Have you even bothered--actually has anyone even bothered to research these so called "designer breeds"

In my opinion there is a difference between these and a so called "mongrel"

Firstly the cross is well controlled ie the dogs are chosen for particular traits-size,temperament,the way they look etc.

Btw does any of this sound familiar to people that breed "pedigrees"--Its exactly the same as how we got so many different so called "breeds" since all so called breeds are decended from a single common ancestor and the reason they split into so many breeds is because of exactly what these so called designer breeders are doing.


Secondly most of these designer breeds are in the process of trying to get recognised by various kennel clubs as "specific breeds" and will have a breed standard.

In the common "mongrel" it could be any mix or match of any breed.So there is a difference in my opinion.

Arcadian wrote: »

Which is the only reason these dogs are produced, it's all in the name. Only an idiot would think otherwise.

Do you mean name as in say pugalier. ? Maybe people like say a shihtzu x as it still looks cute, is small, and doesn't need all that grooming that comes with the long coat.

Call me Socket

babystrawberry wrote: »

The Jack Russell is itself not even recognised with the IKC and more than likely never will be, they are not IKC reg.

The JRT is actually recognised by the IKC...I think since around 2004...(?) The name changed to the Parson Russell Terrier cos 2 types of JRT developed, but now they're both recognised as seperate breeds.

http://www.fci.be/nomenclature.aspx
http://ikc.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=17&Itemid=32

sorella

We have a Jack Russell/basset cross; clearly accidental. The mother was dumped when she was in pup - not our bitch; we rescued one of the pups.

We see only the attributes of those breeds; she has the bounce of the jack Russell with the weight and face of the Basset. So she bounces as high as my head. And her nose is pure hound; she stands for long whiles sniffing the air, her nose twitching like a rabbit.

sorella

From the look of many dogs around Glencolumcille, there is a jack Russell with a similar range......

cloudy day wrote: »

I know what I'd like to give that collie.

cloudy day

sorella wrote: »

We have a Jack Russell/basset cross; clearly accidental. The mother was dumped when she was in pup - not our bitch; we rescued one of the pups.

We see only the attributes of those breeds; she has the bounce of the jack Russell with the weight and face of the Basset. So she bounces as high as my head. And her nose is pure hound; she stands for long whiles sniffing the air, her nose twitching like a rabbit.

awh, I'd say she's gorgeous, any chance of a pic.

and way more healthy than a pure basset I'd wager. God did anyone see the one on the ped dogs program. I felt so sorry for that poor dog with all that skin.

Fighting Irish

I've never understood why people care if a dog is pedigree or mongrel, unless you want to enter a dog in competitions or whatever

I know i'd prefer for my mother to be black and father be white than my mother and father being siblings

cloudy day

I think it's just personal differences. Like what's already been discussed in other posts on the same topi in the past. Why do people like diff models of cars. Diff breeds of horses.

We all like different things to each other.

some of us are bad about the way certain dogs look . Guess it's a lurve thing.

sorella

If you teach me slowly how to put photos up; she is on the one I tried to put up on the thread about Sandy last week.. the one about the breakthough.

We thought she was part dachshund at first; but her "basset face" is quite unmistakable. Not huge wrinkles, just the expressiion.

cloudy day wrote: »

awh, I'd say she's gorgeous, any chance of a pic.

and way more healthy than a pure basset I'd wager. God did anyone see the one on the ped dogs program. I felt so sorry for that poor dog with all that skin.

The Sweeper

There's a big feral pig problem in Australia, and lots of people who are interested in that sort of thing go wild pig hunting.

Virtually all of them use dogs as well as knives/guns when they go hunting. Practically none of them use pure-bred dogs - in fact, some hunters will laugh at others who use pure breeds.

Part of being a 'hobby hunter' is breeding your own perfect pig-dog, one with a good nose, the ability to flush prey out of dense areas, a tough hide to resist running through brambles, the intelligence and bravery to go for the biggest boar in the pig herd as opposed to going for the females and piglets, and the power to latch onto one ear of the pig and hold it until the hunter arrives.

They cross everything from great danes to borzois and kelpies, some of the bull breeds, pointers, mastiffs - they mix and match until then end up with a huge dog with a barrell chest, long legs for speed, powerful jaws, with a nose like a blood hound and the persistent intelligence of a terrier.

They don't 'label' their crosses as anything other than 'pig dog', but they certainly cross pure breeds in an effort to create a hybrid with specific traits of each breed.

katexox

are ye all that stupid really.....hybrid dogs aren't mongrels they are dogs bred to eliminate all genetic diseases in dogs which are growing rapidly.....they are also bred to be friendly since viciousness can be a genetic trait.....if bred right you should no there breed characteristics and height etc. ....they are turning into a breed.... im 15 and i no more than you.....you must be proud

Hellrazer

katexox wrote: »

im 15 and i no more than you.....you must be proud

I think you should really learn to spell properly before using a statement like that one^^^^^

Maybe then I`ll take you seriously.

Risarow

Hellrazer wrote: »

I think you should really learn to spell properly before using a statement like that one^^^^^

Maybe then I`ll take you seriously.

Steady on Hellrazer, Disrespecting someone for using text speak, bad grammar or poor spelling is out of order.

Disrespecting someone for trolling is OK :D:D

cloudy day

katexox wrote: »

are ye all that stupid really.....hybrid dogs aren't mongrels they are dogs bred to eliminate all genetic diseases in dogs which are growing rapidly.....they are also bred to be friendly since viciousness can be a genetic trait.....if bred right you should no there breed characteristics and height etc. ....they are turning into a breed.... im 15 and i no more than you.....you must be proud

If you actually take the time to read all of the posts from the beginning and then participate it the discussion you will see that "YE ALL" is a totally incorrect statement to come out with as WE ALL don't share the opnion that hybrid dogs are a bad thing.

cloudy day

Hellrazer wrote: »

I think you should really learn to spell properly before using a statement like that one^^^^^

Maybe then I`ll take you seriously.

:D

Hellrazer

Risarow wrote: »

Steady on Hellrazer, Disrespecting someone for using text speak, bad grammar or poor spelling is out of order.

Disrespecting someone for trolling is OK :D:D

i wasnt disrepecting them for that.........they come on here make out that we`re all stupid yet they cant even use full stops.....make or finish sentences.........or spell.........and Im supposed to take the post seriously.........sorry but I dont think so......if the post had been even attempted to be written in a more legible way I might have taken it seriously............with 15 years of life experience Im sure she does know a lot more than us lot :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Magenta

katexox wrote: »

are ye all that stupid really.....hybrid dogs aren't mongrels they are dogs bred to eliminate all genetic diseases in dogs which are growing rapidly.....they are also bred to be friendly since viciousness can be a genetic trait....im 15 and i no more than you.....you must be proud

Tell me something.

I breed a Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer with another Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer. Therefore, I have a litter of purebred Labrador puppies with a genetic susceptibility to cancer.

Out of curiosity, do you believe that if I breed a Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer to a Poodle with a genetic susceptibility to cancer, I will have a litter of hybrid "Labradoodles" which will not have a genetic susceptibility to cancer?

At the end of the day, unhealthy parents will breed unhealthy puppies, no matter what breed they are.

At least vets won't have to worry about the recession with all these Pugaliers about

Morganna

Magenta wrote: »

Tell me something.

I breed a Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer with another Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer. Therefore, I have a litter of purebred Labrador puppies with a genetic susceptibility to cancer.

Out of curiosity, do you believe that if I breed a Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer to a Poodle with a genetic susceptibility to cancer, I will have a litter of hybrid "Labradoodles" which will not have a genetic susceptibility to cancer?

At the end of the day, unhealthy parents will breed unhealthy puppies, no matter what breed they are.

At least vets won't have to worry about the recession with all these Pugaliers about

Well said and well put Magneta .

Ruby Soho

katexox wrote: »

are ye all that stupid really.....hybrid dogs aren't mongrels they are dogs bred to eliminate all genetic diseases in dogs which are growing rapidly.....they are also bred to be friendly since viciousness can be a genetic trait.....if bred right you should no there breed characteristics and height etc. ....they are turning into a breed.... im 15 and i no more than you.....you must be proud

Well, had you read my previous post, you will find that many of the 'hybrid' dogs are not health-problem free at all, they can be and commonly are just as badly affected than their parents. I've seen many many genetic diseases present in the dogs at a young age... would you like me to make a list of these diseases for you to make it easier for you to understand?
And yes, before you ask, I'm a qualified, registered veterinary nurse, I work full-time in a busy practice, and despite your long years on this earth and experience with the subject, I disagree, I most definitely know more than you on this one...
By the way, I can see that its your first post, not a great way to make friends by accusing us all of being stupid...

cloudy day

Ruby Soho wrote: »

Well, had you read my previous post, you will find that many of the 'hybrid' dogs are not health-problem free at all, they can be and commonly are just as badly affected than their parents. I've seen many many genetic diseases present in the dogs at a young age... would you like me to make a list of these diseases for you to make it easier for you to understand?
And yes, before you ask, I'm a qualified, registered veterinary nurse, I work full-time in a busy practice, and despite your long years on this earth and experience with the subject, I disagree, I most definitely know more than you on this one...
By the way, I can see that its your first post, not a great way to make friends by accusing us all of being stupid...

Yes I'd the list of proof. What breed's / hybrid's and what the health problem is pertaining to each. And did they come from puppy farms. Thanks, it's for personal research.

Aru

Geneticly the chances of a hybrid having as many problems as either of its pure bred parents is unlikely.

if you look up breeding genatics in large animals like Cattle or pigs you will find that crossbreeding of hybrids or Heterosis as its also known is often used in order to reduce the chance of unwanted traits eg genetic diseases...crossbreeding two animals animals does produce hybid vigour.

Each animal only has a certain amount of genes.
In an inbred animal more of these are alike and are more likely to throw up two reccesive genes causing a genetic disease...in a cross bred there are more optoions for each of the genes so the chances of a recessive disease occuring decreases.....
so by crossing two inbred animals from different lines you should tecnically get a healthier pup..well genetically anyway...
as our genetics lecturer pointed put Prince Charles is 12 and a half percent inbred but both his sons have hybrid vigour

Of course some diseases are prevalent across the pedigree breeds and they would be harder to eliminate...eg breeding an German shepard dog and a labrador may still leave you with offspring with hip dysplasia....but some of the genetic problems like Haemophelia(GSD prob more than lab) and other specific breed problems should be reduced in hybids..

for the record i do think that paying hudreds of pounds for a hybrid is madness!!
but at the same time there is a reason that the insurance premiums for crossbreeds are lower..overall they are healthier than purebreds...if they wernt the insurance would be the same...

jolo

Interesting views flying around here.

I got interested in 'hybrids' recently, not because of their 'interesting(?)' names (some of which I find a little nauseating) or their designer status, which I was completely naive about, but as I was considering getting a dog, was uncertain as to which breed but needed a dog that was reasonably hypoallergenic. I came across bichon frise X shih tzu and maltese x shih tzu both of which sounded interesting TO ME. I thought that increasing the mix in the gene pool would improve the health aspects of the dogs in my basic understanding of genetics. I have concerns not just about the near-inbreeding of pure breeds but also the other problems like breathing complications in dogs like Shih Tzus who are bred for the shortness of their muzzle. I haven't expressed that very well but I hope you catch my drift.

Foolishly I thought these cross breeds would be cheaper also as the lack of 'papers' etc would indicate but then I discovered they were hybrids and similar prices to the pure breds.
I'm still interested particularly iin the Maltese x Shih Tzu as the combined characteristics and the wider gene pool appeals to me.
Do you believe there are some scrupulous breeders of hybrids? Or at least breeders who care about and for their dogs? How to find them though?
Maybe some decent people saw a demand for a combination they could provide? Does anyone know of reputable breeders of hybrids(particularly Maltese x Shih Tzu (MaltiTzu???!!))?

I would genuinely like to get a dog from a welfare group and I've read that sometimesthey do have pure breds but I'd like a pup and I also need her to be fairly hypoallergenic and I'm not sure if there's anyway of being sure of that without getting a pure breed or a hybrid.

So some people are genuinely interested in pure breds and hybrids for their characteristics and not just their name or label. But thank you for your professional input on the complications that can still arise. I suppose there's always a danger when you're dealing with living things human or canine or otherwise?

cloudy day

Well put Jolo

I'm of the same vein of thought as yourself on Hybrids, and it's the reason's why I'm not against them.

I agree they are not cheaper, but having said that, I believe that someone who cares about their dogs and minds them right will not reduce the prices just to sell them quickly. There is a lot of work involved in breeding and raising pup's when they are done right.

andreac

Can i ask why you need to go for a cross? why cant you just get a pure bred dog that doesnt shed, like a bichon, poodle etc, why does it need to be a cross of any sort?

onthemove

ah but the cavachon its such a cutie:Dseriously though if the demand is there wats to say it is any worse than paying for pure bred dog?if you were lookin for a "pugalier" and didn't have the money for a pug and a king charles and didnt want the hassle of loads of pups you'd buy a pugalier its simple really,no one can make anyone pay money they don't want to pay for a dog...with the amount of dogs needing homes the debate should be weather or not breeding them at all is morally correct

Call me Socket

onthemove wrote: »

ah but the cavachon its such a cutie:Dseriously though if the demand is there wats to say it is any worse than paying for pure bred dog?if you were lookin for a "pugalier" and didn't have the money for a pug and a king charles and didnt want the hassle of loads of pups you'd buy a pugalier its simple really,no one can make anyone pay money they don't want to pay for a dog...with the amount of dogs needing homes the debate should be weather or not breeding them at all is morally correct

If you don't have the money for a Pug or a CKCS then you wouldn't have it for a Pugalier either. They're about the same price.
The problem with paying for these deliberately bred crossbreeds is that by doing so you are feeding demand for puppy farmers or puppy mills to fulfill, which means you are supporting them, albeit subconsciously. I reckon 90% of the people breeding those particular designer breeds are puppy farmers. The other 10% are dog owners who fancied giving breeding a try, or accidently allowed their bitch to fall pregnant.

ScumLord

katexox wrote: »

are ye all that stupid really.....hybrid dogs aren't mongrels they are dogs bred to eliminate all genetic diseases in dogs which are growing rapidly.....

No they're bread for profit end of story.

Magenta

onthemove wrote: »

?if you were lookin for a "pugalier" and didn't have the money for a pug and a king charles and didnt want the hassle of loads of pups you'd buy a pugalier its simple really

Why would you buy a Pugalier if you didn't want the hassle of loads of pups?

babystrawberry

Call me Socket wrote: »

If you don't have the money for a Pug or a CKCS then you wouldn't have it for a Pugalier either. They're about the same price.
The problem with paying for these deliberately bred crossbreeds is that by doing so you are feeding demand for puppy farmers or puppy mills to fulfill, which means you are supporting them, albeit subconsciously. I reckon 90% of the people breeding those particular designer breeds are puppy farmers. The other 10% are dog owners who fancied giving breeding a try, or accidently allowed their bitch to fall pregnant.

This was the original point i was trying to get across in my first post here. Generally speaking it is the puppy farmers who are reaking the benefit from the hybrids, they are cossing their toy breeds that they already are using for breeding their pure breds, these hybrids will not be registered with the IKC

Generally speaking, when breeding a pure bred dog, you are only allowed to breed the bitch a certain amount of times (i think it is 6 or 7 maybe?) If you breed the bitch after this the IKC will not register them.

If a breeder wants to then breed this bitch to get a 'hybrid', there is no problem, they can go ahead and do so, pups will not be registered (as far as I know this is the case in Ireland)

I agree with all the posts that by introducing a new strain into the equation you MAY effectivley remove some of the problems associated with the pure breds BUT this will only happen if the parents are healthy on both sides.

onthemove

Magenta wrote: »

Tell me something.

I breed a Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer with another Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer. Therefore, I have a litter of purebred Labrador puppies with a genetic susceptibility to cancer.

Out of curiosity, do you believe that if I breed a Labrador with a genetic susceptibility to cancer to a Poodle with a genetic susceptibility to cancer, I will have a litter of hybrid "Labradoodles" which will not have a genetic susceptibility to cancer?

At the end of the day, unhealthy parents will breed unhealthy puppies, no matter what breed they are.

At least vets won't have to worry about the recession with all these Pugaliers about

im not a scientist here but if you bred a dog with a high susceptibility towards getting a specific cancer(they are not all the same strangely enough wouldnt life be easier that way) with a dog with a high susceptibility towards another specific type of cancer or disease it cuts the chances in half of developing that specific disease compared to two dogs with the same tendency towards a disease now that is common sense...but dont tell the dog breeders i said that they mite breed a dog that can wee on me from miles away!!

onthemove

Call me Socket wrote: »

If you don't have the money for a Pug or a CKCS then you wouldn't have it for a Pugalier either. They're about the same price.
The problem with paying for these deliberately bred crossbreeds is that by doing so you are feeding demand for puppy farmers or puppy mills to fulfill, which means you are supporting them, albeit subconsciously. I reckon 90% of the people breeding those particular designer breeds are puppy farmers. The other 10% are dog owners who fancied giving breeding a try, or accidently allowed their bitch to fall pregnant.

i meant youd buy one dog not two to breed to get it...dog breeders don't make a profit?!thats news to me,gosh they must really like puppies!puppy farmers breed pure bred dogs too,its still putting two dogs together to make one puppy no matter what way you slice it its still dog breeding