Guantanamo bay

EOA_Mushy

Tell me if this is interesting;

America has gone and imprisoned a bunch of COULD BE terrorists, in all likely hood, tortured and essential had the opportunity to brain wash many.

Now they want to give them passports to all countries with in Europe.

Send them home i say!

These people can get a flight home if they want to or need to the day they land in any European country. So why should they be given passports to Europe?

I smell rotten fish...

tribulus

EOA_Mushy wrote: »

Tell me if this is interesting;

America has gone and imprisoned a bunch of COULD BE terrorists, in all likely hood, tortured and essential had the opportunity to brain wash many.

Now they want to give them passports to all countries with in Europe.

Send them home i say!

These people can get a flight home if they want to or need to the day they land in any European country. So why should they be given passports to Europe?

I smell rotten fish...

It's not, maybe have a wash ?

minidazzler

What I want to ask is, Why not give them Passports to America???


The way I see it, If I were them and I was already a "Terrorist", I would do something Bad in Europe, just because they failed to demand America close Gitmo.

tallaght01

Obama couldn't get assurances from their native countries that they'll be safe. They won't be treated well in America.

We campaigned for it's closure, so I guess we have some obligation to help out now.

If someone is innocent, and it's not safe for them to go home, and they can't stay in the states, then we should take them.

We spend enough time complaining about bogus asylum seekers, so we should embrace the opportunity to house people who will genuinely suffer persecution back in their home country.

deleriumtremens

Hmm. It seems to me that this is the first part of Presidents Obamas muslim agenda to take over the world!! Send all the terrorists to different focal points around the world!

We're all going to look so silly when in 50 years time after the muslims have taken control of the world! :eek:

EOA_Mushy

tallaght01 wrote: »

Obama couldn't get assurances from their native countries that they'll be safe.

He can get assurences that they will be treated well here either.

tallaght01 wrote: »

They won't be treated well in America.

Not our problem and not a problem that we CREATED.

tallaght01 wrote: »

We campaigned for it's closure, so I guess we have some obligation to help out now.

We also campaigned for shannon to not be used as a stop over for a war that we also campained against.

tallaght01 wrote: »

If someone is innocent, and it's not safe for them to go home, and they can't stay in the states, then we should take them.

WHY?

also

What if they are not innocent?

We spend enough time complaining about bogus asylum seekers, so we should embrace the opportunity to house people who will genuinely suffer persecution back in their home country.[/QUOTE]

FlutterinBantam

tallaght01 wrote: »

Obama couldn't get assurances from their native countries that they'll be safe. They won't be treated well in America.

We campaigned for it's closure, so I guess we have some obligation to help out now.

If someone is innocent, and it's not safe for them to go home, and they can't stay in the states, then we should take them.

We spend enough time complaining about bogus asylum seekers, so we should embrace the opportunity to house people who will genuinely suffer persecution back in their home country.

Don't speak for me pilgrim.

minidazzler

deleriumtremens wrote: »

Hmm. It seems to me that this is the first part of Presidents Obamas muslim agenda to take over the world!! Send all the terrorists to different focal points around the world!

We're all going to look so silly when in 50 years time after the muslims have taken control of the world! :eek:

No we won't because we will all be dead, and they will eat the remaining non muslim babies....

Hande hoche!

Send them to Yemen? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090123/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/guantanamo_al_qaida

TheZohanS

I doubt they'll do as much damage to this country as the fools we have running it.

shenanigans1982

EOA_Mushy wrote: »

Tell me if this is interesting;

America has gone and imprisoned a bunch of COULD BE terrorists, in all likely hood, tortured and essential had the opportunity to brain wash many.

Now they want to give them passports to all countries with in Europe.

Send them home i say!

These people can get a flight home if they want to or need to the day they land in any European country. So why should they be given passports to Europe?

I smell rotten fish...

I would say there is a good chance these people won't be allowed next to near a plane.

tallaght01

EOA_Mushy wrote: »

He can get assurences that they will be treated well here either.



Not our problem and not a problem that we CREATED.



We also campaigned for shannon to not be used as a stop over for a war that we also campained against.



WHY?

also

What if they are not innocent?

We spend enough time complaining about bogus asylum seekers, so we should embrace the opportunity to house people who will genuinely suffer persecution back in their home country.

[/QUOTE]

1) We can give assurances that our miltary won't torture them.

2) We can't realistically just look at issues that are our immediate problem, otherwise we'd never do anything for, say, people in the third world.

3) Most developed contries have signed treaties to accept refugees.

4) They may not be innocent. But we could say that about anyone. They've never been convicted. If they're innocent, they're unlikely to bring a Al Qaeda to set up base in Ireland :P Most likely they'll just go back to Afghanistan or wherever, and re-integrate. That would have happened wherever they went.

Hard Larry

This is a secret ploy by the Yanks,

They are going to break these suspected terrorist by subjecting them to the most heinous of all tortures...

The Irish Passport Application Process

God/Allah help them poor souls.

tallaght01

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Don't speak for me pilgrim.

Our government was one of the first to call for it's closure. Sorry, kid.

Was one of the few decent things they ever did.

Tom65

See, this is the problem with imprisoning people without trial. They become stigmatized and lose their presumptive innocence. 55% of the people there have not been determined to have committed any hostile act against the US. 8% of detainees have been characterized as Al Qaeda fighters. 10 of 430 people have been convicted with a crime URL="http://www.amnestyusa.org/america/FactSheet.pdf"]Link[/URL. I'm not saying there aren't terrorists in Guantanamo, but there are a lot of innocent people in there too.

Frankly, I trust the US won't want to unload any serious threats to far from their noses (if they don't ship there to European anyway). So, why not accept some innocent people who can't return home?

FlutterinBantam

My golden ass.

Plenty of jackass terrorists in there .

Punters who thought it was "cool" to piss of from the east Midlands of England and fight for the "cause".

Different story when Uncle Sam cocked an Uzi behind their lugholes.

I didn't campaign for it's closure pal

tallaght01

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I didn't campaign for it's closure pal

LOL, well Obama isn't actually asking you personally to take anyone in :P

The government campaigned for it's closure, so he's asking the govt to take them in.

If we only went with policies that 100% of the public agree with, it would be one weird ass democracy!

FlutterinBantam

Just as well he's not, I am just making my position clear buddy.

dresden8

America ****ed up

They can clean the **** from their own nest.

K-9

EOA_Mushy wrote: »

We also campaigned for shannon to not be used as a stop over for a war that we also campained against.

Yep, many would argue against the War in Iraq, Bush, American imperialism etc. If you campaign against a war maybe you should help some of the victims of it?

Tom65 wrote: »

See, this is the problem with imprisoning people without trial. They become stigmatized and lose their presumptive innocence. 55% of the people there have not been determined to have committed any hostile act against the US. 8% of detainees have been characterized as Al Qaeda fighters. 10 of 430 people have been convicted with a crime URL="http://www.amnestyusa.org/america/FactSheet.pdf"]Link[/URL. I'm not saying there aren't terrorists in Guantanamo, but there are a lot of innocent people in there too.

Frankly, I trust the US won't want to unload any serious threats to far from their noses (if they don't ship there to European anyway). So, why not accept some innocent people who can't return home?

Exactly.

tallaght01 wrote: »

LOL, well Obama isn't actually asking you personally to take anyone in :P

The government campaigned for it's closure, so he's asking the govt to take them in.

If we only went with policies that 100% of the public agree with, it would be one weird ass democracy!

Waits for the "you bloody Liberal, PC'er" Comments from the Non PC flag bearers!

Tom65

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

My golden ass.

Plenty of jackass terrorists in there .

Punters who thought it was "cool" to piss of from the east Midlands of England and fight for the "cause".

Different story when Uncle Sam cocked an Uzi behind their lugholes.

I didn't campaign for it's closure pal

And the people who aren't terrorists?

McGrath5

As far as i'm concerned, it's America's mess, leave it to them to sort it out

EOA_Mushy

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

I would say there is a good chance these people won't be allowed next to near a plane.

I have not seen any confirmation to that effect....

tallaght01 wrote: »

LOL, well Obama isn't actually asking you personally to take anyone in :P

The government campaigned for it's closure, so he's asking the govt to take them in.

The gov represent me and you and every one else in this country. So Obama IS asking us to take them in.

tallaght01 wrote: »

If we only went with policies that 100% of the public agree with, it would be one weird ass democracy!

The poll majority would make that point mute... Again democracy is a seperate issue.

EOA_Mushy

tallaght01 wrote: »

2) We can't realistically just look at issues that are our immediate problem, otherwise we'd never do anything for, say, people in the third world.
QUOTE]

Our current way of doing things has not brought us to a very good place now has it. Would it not be better to get our collective heads out of our arse's before trying to say that we are sensible enough to help others?

As for third world countries, that is not on topic. If you create a thread about it I will be happy to share my views.

Seanies32 wrote: »

Yep, many would argue against the War in Iraq, Bush, American imperialism etc. If you campaign against a war maybe you should help some of the victims of it?

No. The concept that I or any other person does not agree with a War is one thing.

After we are not listened to a 2nd and entirly seperate issue arises. This issue was caused by the US. Make the US fix it.

A slightly daft but similar issue would be if I robbed a bank and some one else had to go to jail for it.

EOA_Mushy

Tom65 wrote: »

See, this is the problem with imprisoning people without trial. They become stigmatized and lose their presumptive innocence. 55% of the people there have not been determined to have committed any hostile act against the US. 8% of detainees have been characterized as Al Qaeda fighters. 10 of 430 people have been convicted with a crime URL="http://www.amnestyusa.org/america/FactSheet.pdf"]Link[/URL. I'm not saying there aren't terrorists in Guantanamo, but there are a lot of innocent people in there too.

Fair enough. However this is about injecting them into europe, a place they do not have a right to be with out the appropriate visa.

Tom65 wrote: »

Frankly, I trust the US won't want to unload any serious threats to far from their noses (if they don't ship there to European anyway). So, why not accept some innocent people who can't return home?

I do not trust the US on any count. They have sone nothing to earn that.

They may or may not be terrorists, however they have been under US control for a period of time in a location that any thing can happen.

And now they will be spread around Europe with out any issue that their actions can be brought back to the Americans.

tallaght01

EOA_Mushy wrote: »

Our current way of doing things has not brought us to a very good place now has it. Would it not be better to get our collective heads out of our arse's before trying to say that we are sensible enough to help others?

It's brought us to a place where we spend a lot on helping others, and taking in refugees.

I think it would be crazy to suggest we must wait until our country is perfect before we can help anyone else. I just don't see why that would have to be.

Tom65

EOA_Mushy wrote: »

Fair enough. However this is about injecting them into europe, a place they do not have a right to be with out the appropriate visa.



I do not trust the US on any count. They have sone nothing to earn that.

They may or may not be terrorists, however they have been under US control for a period of time in a location that any thing can happen.

And now they will be spread around Europe with out any issue that their actions can be brought back to the Americans.

If it's a question of whether they qualify for asylum here, that's a different matter. Ideally, if they can't go home, they'd stay in the US, but if they can't go to the US, I'd see a reason why we shouldn't let them stay here.

I can understand your mistrust of the US, but I think it's in their interest not to drop someone they suspect of plotting to attack them into the middle of Mullingar and then feck off. They will, at the very least, keep tabs on those they suspect of being genuine terrorists.

EOA_Mushy

To come back to the topic.

American mess.

Problem is currently in America.

America is discarding the problem onto Europe.

I live in Europe.

I can not go and move to America with out an American family member or note from work stating that i am required and that no American will fit the position.

These people will be given Irish passports for one sole reason... The Americans f'ed up.

Even on the simplest point this is wrong.

EOA_Mushy

Tom65 wrote: »

If it's a question of whether they qualify for asylum here, that's a different matter. Ideally, if they can't go home, they'd stay in the US, but if they can't go to the US, I'd see a reason why we shouldn't let them stay here.

That is the point.

Tom65 wrote: »

I can understand your mistrust of the US, but I think it's in their interest not to drop someone they suspect of plotting to attack them into the middle of Mullingar and then feck off.

It doesnt need to be in their interest. Once they are here the American attitude is "Its your problem". All they will have to do is state that its our fault they are not still in prison.

Tom65 wrote: »

They will, at the very least, keep tabs on those they suspect of being genuine terrorists.

Could bring more interesting problems.

Irish police force, although can be credited with many achievements, would not be in a position to do any thing other then to ask them to come to their local gaurda staion once every month.

Down the country it could be worse.

jill_valentine

I couldn't give a toss who's mess this was. Somebody has to sort it out. Irish people spend untold hours a day whining about problems that could have been fixed by somebody else - well this is a problem, and we can help solve it. These guys from Guantanamo have to go somewhere, and it's not like there's enough of them to destablise the whole economy or anything.

Besides which, regardless of what I think about America's appalling actions regarding Guantanamo, they have in the past been a good friend to us. I figure we owe 'em one.

Even on an objective political standpoint, I think it would serve us well.

Duiske

Cuba's a great place. Cheap drink, great food, gorgeous women. My bet is if they just opened the gates of Guantanamo and let them walk out, most might actually want to stay there.

jill_valentine

Maybe the embargo extends to exporting problems too though Duiske?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

My golden ass.

Plenty of jackass terrorists in there .

Punters who thought it was "cool" to piss of from the east Midlands of England and fight for the "cause".

Different story when Uncle Sam cocked an Uzi behind their lugholes.

I didn't campaign for it's closure pal

Have you got any links to back up your claim that there are plenty of terrorists in there? If your making crap up then stop posting.

No you may not have, nor did I, but the government that represents the people of Ireland did... We did campaign for it, simple as wether you personally did or did not.

I don't see why they cannot be given American passports. Those that are innocent should be given the passports. Wasn't there talk of all detainees been given fair trials?

What have people got with innocent people seeking asylum here? These people have a right to life too.

What I cannot understand is why they cannot go home and why they cannot stay in America?

It's pretty lame that America is stating that they cannot guarantee their safety. That is bullsh!t. They should guarantee it and make sure these people are safe.

lostexpectation

maybe i should start and another poll

should we let kidnappers, murderers and torturers free reign to come and go via ireland?

yes
no

jill_valentine

lostexpectation wrote: »

maybe i should start and another poll

should we let kidnappers, murderers and torturers free reign to come and go via ireland?

Yeah, maybe you should start another poll.

Because that question has nothing to do with this one.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

lostexpectation wrote: »

maybe i should start and another poll

should we let kidnappers, murderers and torturers free reign to come and go via ireland?

yes
no

Oh? You know they are all guilty then? Link? No? Thought so.

Let the guilty rot in prison. Do not tar them all with the same brush.

lostexpectation

big prize for whom im talking about.

javaboy

lostexpectation wrote: »

big prize for whom im talking about.

Is it the US via Shannon by any chance? :rolleyes:

twinytwo

tallaght01 wrote: »

Obama couldn't get assurances from their native countries that they'll be safe. They won't be treated well in America.

We campaigned for it's closure, so I guess we have some obligation to help out now.

If someone is innocent, and it's not safe for them to go home, and they can't stay in the states, then we should take them.

We spend enough time complaining about bogus asylum seekers, so we should embrace the opportunity to house people who will genuinely suffer persecution back in their home country.

Im sorry now right.. america took them from theri country so let america look after them... why dont we embrace the irish people of this country who need help??????? why does it always have to be people from other countries

Nodin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

My golden ass.

Plenty of jackass terrorists in there .

Punters who thought it was "cool" to piss of from the east Midlands of England and fight for the "cause".

Different story when Uncle Sam cocked an Uzi behind their lugholes.

How many, exactly?

Perfect choice wrote:

As far as i'm concerned, it's America's mess, leave it to them to sort it out

Jaysus forbid the country act like its got a pair for once....

Dyr

I say we give all these poor bastards irish passports, so long as they agree to work in our brand new gitmo re-enactment-interpretative centre, sure to be a money spinner with the tourists..just look at auschwitz.

Or we could let them man the security gates at dublin airport for flights from the US.."soo..you're from texas eh?, just step into this room please sir...":pac:

twinytwo

Sofia Shy Yak wrote: »

Have you got any links to back up your claim that there are plenty of terrorists in there? If your making crap up then stop posting.

No you may not have, nor did I, but the government that represents the people of Ireland did... We did campaign for it, simple as wether you personally did or did not.

I don't see why they cannot be given American passports. Those that are innocent should be given the passports. Wasn't there talk of all detainees been given fair trials?

What have people got with innocent people seeking asylum here? These people have a right to life too.

What I cannot understand is why they cannot go home and why they cannot stay in America?

It's pretty lame that America is stating that they cannot guarantee their safety. That is bullsh!t. They should guarantee it and make sure these people are safe.

Oh now come on... as far as im aware international law says one must seek asylum in the first country that they enter.. Last time i checked there was no direct flights from say any african country to here... the french let them into france just so long as they keep going out the other side... And without doubt that the ones that are here are the ones that didnt really need asylum in the first place.


Yes they have a right to live but they do not have a right to come here and leach off the government as so many of them do (not all). They take the piss out of our social welfare system.. while an ordinary joe soap trying to make ends meet dont get half the assistance that the asylum seekers get. While im all for help people i think this country has done enough. Let america look after them. Why should we clean up their mess.

FlutterinBantam

Sofia Shy Yak wrote: »

Have you got any links to back up your claim that there are plenty of terrorists in there? If your making crap up then stop posting.

No you may not have, nor did I, but the government that represents the people of Ireland did... We did campaign for it, simple as wether you personally did or did not.

I don't see why they cannot be given American passports. Those that are innocent should be given the passports. Wasn't there talk of all detainees been given fair trials?

What have people got with innocent people seeking asylum here? These people have a right to life too.

What I cannot understand is why they cannot go home and why they cannot stay in America?

It's pretty lame that America is stating that they cannot guarantee their safety. That is bullsh!t. They should guarantee it and make sure these people are safe.

I havn't got any links to state the people in Mountjoy prison are all criminals either.
Desperate times demand desperate measures and the sooner pinko left wing ers begin to realise that there is a coterie of evil people out there who have no problem blowing plane loads of INNOCENT people out of the skies, destroying western civilisation and wreaking havoc on us,yes ,you and me,the sooner we will begin to accept that this war cannot be fought by conventional means and some people will get caught in the crossfire.

Wake up and realise we should be glad someone has the balls to take these people on.

jill_valentine

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I havn't got any links to state the people in Mountjoy prison are all criminals either.
Desperate times demand desperate measures and the sooner pinko left wing ers begin to realise that there is a coterie of evil people out there who have no problem blowing plane loads of INNOCENT people out of the skies, destroying western civilisation and wreaking havoc on us,yes ,you and me,the sooner we will begin to accept that this war cannot be fought by conventional means and some people will get caught in the crossfire.

Wake up and realise we should be glad someone has the balls to take these people on.

Yeah, blah blah blah, it's a good thing you're here to save us from the terrorists, because we don't actually understand that people die from terrorism. :rolleyes:

Tell you what - we put them all on trial - an astonishingly novel concept - and when loads of them aren't convicted of anything because they're freaking taxi drivers who were shopped for the bounty money, we can just take those guys. They can come here and leach off the state just like all the Irish people who do it.

I have absolutely no confidence in America's capacity to end the "war on terror". Thus far, they've only proved very good at generating new enemies. All the balls in the world won't do the same job as half a brain.

FlutterinBantam

jill_valentine wrote: »

Yeah, blah blah blah, it's a good thing you're here to save us from the terrorists, because we don't actually understand that people die from terrorism. :rolleyes:

Tell you what - we put them all on trial - an astonishingly novel concept - and when loads of them aren't convicted of anything because they're freaking taxi drivers who were shopped for the bounty money, we can just take those guys. They can come here and leach off the state just like all the Irish people who do it.

I have absolutely no confidence in America's capacity to end the "war on terror". Thus far, they've only proved very good at generating new enemies. All the balls in the world won't do the same job as half a brain.

have you got any links to back that up;)

I don't have too much confidence in the USs ability to end the war on terror either,but at least they are putting their forces in harms way to ensure you and I, Jill, are safer when we travel on airlines and the London and Madrid trains.

The poor innocents who were slaughtered in those atrocities didn't get much of a trial did they??

Nodin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I havn't got any links to state the people in Mountjoy prison are all criminals either.
Desperate times demand desperate measures and the sooner pinko left wing ers begin to realise that there is a coterie of evil people out there who have no problem blowing plane loads of INNOCENT people out of the skies, destroying western civilisation and wreaking havoc on us,yes ,you and me,the sooner we will begin to accept that this war cannot be fought by conventional means and some people will get caught in the crossfire..

O NOES!!!!! TEh MuslimZ iz comin!!!!!

So, because of exaggerated fear mongering on behalf of a now thankfully defunct US admistration, we should screw over whoever they deem an "enemy" regardless of the fact that enemy may be a 15 year old goat herder that was handed over for 2000 USD.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Wake up and realise we should be glad someone has the balls to take these people on.

Thats the US...bravely taking on the third world and freeing it of its resources.

twinytwo wrote:

while an ordinary joe soap trying to make ends meet dont get half the assistance that the asylum seekers get..

How much cash does an asylum seeker get per week, roughly?

FlutterinBantam

Nodin wrote: »

O NOES!!!!! TEh MuslimZ iz comin!!!!!

TCN

---

>

jill_valentine

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

have you got any links to back that up;)

I don't have too much confidence in the USs ability to end the war on terror either,but at least they are putting their forces in harms way to ensure you and I, Jill, are safer when we travel on airlines and the London and Madrid trains.

The poor innocents who were slaughtered in those atrocities didn't get much of a trial did they??

And won't somebody please think of the children?

I'm well aware of the consequences of terrorism and warfare. However, on balance, I don't think the risk posed by taking these people in outweighs the gains.

Besides, we've plenty of practice living with terrorists in this country, it doesn't seem to bother us when they've got a charming Northern lilt to their accents.

D-Generate

It was a disgrace when the government took in those Palestinian terrorists wanted for the murder of an Israeli soldier and now they are wanting to take in more rubbish. **** that ****, America's problem and most certainly not ours. Although I wouldn't mind taking in their detainees if they didn't mind taking in the IRA and UVF scum of Norn Ireland.

Mark200

EOA_Mushy wrote: »

What if they are not innocent?

Someone is innocent unless you can prove otherwise.

twinytwo

Nodin wrote: »

O NOES!!!!! TEh MuslimZ iz comin!!!!!

So, because of exaggerated fear mongering on behalf of a now thankfully defunct US admistration, we should screw over whoever they deem an "enemy" regardless of the fact that enemy may be a 15 year old goat herder that was handed over for 2000 USD.



Thats the US...bravely taking on the third world and freeing it of its resources.



How much cash does an asylum seeker get per week, roughly?[/quote]


Lets see.. free house(get put on top of housing list even though there are irish families waiting on it for months or years), free car, dont have to pay insurance health or otherwise, no school fees, get child benefit, get it for kids that arnt even in the country,free child care... get places even if there is a waiting list get all different kinds of allowances because they make more by not working.. hell can even drive without tax,insurance or NCT but the gards cant say or do anything because they are "racist" if they do. If you want to help these people so much why not bugger off to nigeria or whatever where they really need your help ?