In Soviet Russia, weights lift you...

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2008/12/18/pavel-8020-powerlifting-and-how-to-add-110-pounds-to-your-lifts/

Okay, ignore the semi-sensationalist title... I just thought I'd post this to see what sort of discussion it got going.

Essentially, the guy (who's credentials I haven't had time to look into) is saying that if you wanna be a competitive powerlifter you need to do four things: bench press, squat, deadlift and compete.

He recommends 5 days a week, a heavy and not-so-heavy day for both squat and bench press and a heavy deadlift day. Just five days a week, one lift per day with stretching afterwards. He also mentions that this one exercise, at 5x5 should take approximately an hour.

On the one hand, I'm a big believer of (in life in general) if you want to get good and then better at "A", repeatedly do "A". Whatever it is, do it time and time again whilst paying attention and you will improve. On the other hand, I haven't heard of many people doing NO assistance work and all the top powerlifters seem to incorporate it so obviously it does work.

Thoughts?

AlphaMale 3OO

Very interesting. I thought about training this way once. 5x5 was taking me close to an hour even before assitance work so I just thought of dropping them altogether. I haven't read the article yet but I find lifting as heavy as I can go every day to be extremely tough so I often have full "lighter" weeks. I deadlifted heavy last week so didn't have anywhere near as much weight this week. Went a good 40kg lighter. I reckon just doing the big exercises would keep you in decent shape but I reckon you should still train partial movements within the big 3.

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

Well another thing he mentions is you should always leave a rep in the tank, you're not training to failure instead you're training for strength. He advocates setting a target, then training 5x5 until you've got it for the full 5x5.

So say you wanna do a 200lb bench, you train and you get 5-5-5-4-3, no problems. Keep the weight the same and go at it again the next week, you get 5-5-5-5-4, repeat until you get 5-5-5-5-5 and then up it by 10lbs. No 2 or 5 pound increments, just bail the weight on and keep going until you get it.

He estimates your 1RM to be 1.2 times the amount you're doing for 5x5. Also stressed were taking up to five minutes between sets and never, ever going to failure. Instead, do your work out, push hard but still have something left in the tank when you're going out the door up until the day of the competition when obviously you give it your all.

Competing regularly seems to be another huge element of this, using the idea that any job will take as much time as you assign to it so huge gains will be made in the 3 - 6 months before a competition purely because there is a competition! All sounds a bit chicken-and-egg but I'm considering giving it a lash...

BossArky

Mitchell Big Llama wrote: »

He estimates your 1RM to be 1.2 times the amount you're doing for 5x5.

Interesting. I wondered about that. Thanks.

Vegeta

Mitchell Big Llama wrote: »

So say you wanna do a 200lb bench, you train and you get 5-5-5-4-3, no problems. Keep the weight the same and go at it again the next week, you get 5-5-5-5-4, repeat until you get 5-5-5-5-5 and then up it by 10lbs. No 2 or 5 pound increments, just bail the weight on and keep going until you get it.

He estimates your 1RM to be 1.2 times the amount you're doing for 5x5. Also stressed were taking up to five minutes between sets and never, ever going to failure. Instead, do your work out, push hard but still have something left in the tank when you're going out the door up until the day of the competition when obviously you give it your all.
.

See the first line of the quote above. What happens on rep 4 and 3. Do you stop because you think you cant get the 5?

BossArky

Vegeta wrote: »

See the first line of the quote above. What happens on rep 4 and 3. Do you stop because you think you cant get the 5?

No, I'm sure he means you stop on rep 4 and 3 cos you cannot do anymore.

e.g. I'm still struggling at my 75kg bench 5x5, getting something like: 5 5 5 4 2.

Hanley

Mitchell Big Llama wrote: »

Well another thing he mentions is you should always leave a rep in the tank, you're not training to failure instead you're training for strength. He advocates setting a target, then training 5x5 until you've got it for the full 5x5.

So say you wanna do a 200lb bench, you train and you get 5-5-5-4-3, no problems. Keep the weight the same and go at it again the next week, you get 5-5-5-5-4, repeat until you get 5-5-5-5-5 and then up it by 10lbs. No 2 or 5 pound increments, just bail the weight on and keep going until you get it.

He estimates your 1RM to be 1.2 times the amount you're doing for 5x5. Also stressed were taking up to five minutes between sets and never, ever going to failure. Instead, do your work out, push hard but still have something left in the tank when you're going out the door up until the day of the competition when obviously you give it your all.

Competing regularly seems to be another huge element of this, using the idea that any job will take as much time as you assign to it so huge gains will be made in the 3 - 6 months before a competition purely because there is a competition! All sounds a bit chicken-and-egg but I'm considering giving it a lash...

That style of training has produced some of the best powerlifters of our generation (the style, not that specific workout). Andrey Belayev (sp) is amongst the top powerlifters ever (I think he’s done 1000+kg at 90kg), his coach - Boris Sheiko is a legend amongst Eastern Bloc powerlifters for his training cycles which don’t really have much past squats, benches, deadlifts, rack pulls and deadlift to knees.

The “assistance work” that you refer to is probably in reference to the Westside style of training where they don’t really use the competition lifts much at all, but ones similar to them.

Know what that proves….? There’s no ONE way. Two training styles which are polar opposites but have produced some world class athletes.

And the funniest thing is the greatest powerlifter EVER didn’t train with either of these styles. Ed Coan was a fan of good oul western periodisation and body part splits. He pulled 901lb/409kg at 220lb/100kg, regularly out totalled the guys in SHW (3 weight classes above him) by 100-200lb and was so utterly dominant that he may never be surpassed. Funny that, eh?

DamienH

I think he's saying stop when you think you can't get another rep with good form.

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

Vegeta wrote: »

See the first line of the quote above. What happens on rep 4 and 3. Do you stop because you think you cant get the 5?

Yeah, it's not best explained by me although it's not that much better in the article but as BossArky and DamienH pointed out I think he means when you know you can't finish the next rep, or maybe even the set, then stop. Don't go for the marginal ones, even if you're 90% sure, because you're not looking to train to failure. That's how I interpreted it anyway, I'm very open to correction though!

Hanley wrote: »

That style of training has produced some of the best powerlifters of our generation (the style, not that specific workout). Andrey Belayev (sp) is amongst the top powerlifters ever (I think he’s done 1000+kg at 90kg), his coach - Boris Sheiko is a legend amongst Eastern Bloc powerlifters for his training cycles which don’t really have much past squats, benches, deadlifts, rack pulls and deadlift to knees.

The “assistance work” that you refer to is probably in reference to the Westside style of training where they don’t really use the competition lifts much at all, but ones similar to them.

Know what that proves….? There’s no ONE way. Two training styles which are polar opposites but have produced some world class athletes.

And the funniest thing is the greatest powerlifter EVER didn’t train with either of these styles. Ed Coan was a fan of good oul western periodisation and body part splits. He pulled 901lb/409kg at 220lb/100kg, regularly out totalled the guys in SHW (3 weight classes above him) by 100-200lb and was so utterly dominant that he may never be surpassed. Funny that, eh?

Cheers for that Hanley, my Google-fu was getting me nowhere! Assistance work was probably the wrong phrase, I guess I just meant I hadn't heard of many people who literally just did the big 3 and competed without doing any other lifts whatsoever. But then again, I haven't heard of many people!

kevpants

Vegeta wrote: »

See the first line of the quote above. What happens on rep 4 and 3. Do you stop because you think you cant get the 5?

When you finish a rep you know whether you'll get the next one. A lot of people go for it when they really know they'll only maybe get a partial rep. It's best not to go for this rep. Training to failure is the enemy of strength.

These russians know their stuff and this program would definitely work, but as Hanley said, so does loads of other stuff.

I started Westside 6 months ago and have added 45lbs to my bench, 120lbs to my squat and 175lbs to my deadlift.

So newbie + decent powerlifting program = big gains

The claims in the article are nothing special and neither are my claims or indeed am I. It's just the way it goes.

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

Definitely agree with you Kev, people can "add" 60/70lb to the their squat in a month when they are starting off - I know, 'cos I did it. I guess I was just wondering what the general consensus was on this program, as in could it be added to the list of many programs that will work provided you put the effort in ... or, was it a complete waste of time that wouldn't work for anyone!

kevpants

I'd actually like to try something this simple some time next year. Once I've ironed out a few of my glaring weakpoints (lats I'm looking at you!!).

Be nice to see how it feels. I don't do 5x5 of anything! I'd say the deadlifts would be a killer.

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

I'm thinking of doing it myself, I've been fluting around in the gym over the past 3 weeks with no real program to follow since I finished by last round of StrongLifts.

And I want to try doing a lot more cardio in the new year so something insanely simple (yet quite hard, I hope!) like this could be perfect for me as I experiment with cardio. I'll give it a whirl if you do Kev!