Time to Legalise GHB?

Prof.Badass

Every year, thousands of people suffer the consequences of alcohol abuse. The medical, social and economic implications of alcohol use are unimaginable.

there's no way out, right? Wrong!

here's my solution; Legalise GHB!

What is GHB?

GHB is a drug that affects the GABA system in your brain (just like alcohol).

It is found naturally in every cell in the body and is completely non-toxic ,unlike alcohol which is quite toxic to the brain,liver and other parts of the body (obviously you can still overdose, just like any other drug, but provided you survive, no damage will be done).

When taken it is metabolised right the way down to CO2 and water (unlike alcohol which is metabolised into vinegar)!

Not only will you not get a hangover from GHB (due to it's lack of toxicity) but it actually has an anti-hangover. Bear with me on this..... GHB causes the brain to store up a very small amount of dopamine, when you come down this dopamine gets naturally relased making you feel energetic and motivated (it's just a small natural feeling,barely noticeable, nothing like being high off speed or coke).

So instead of staying in bed feeling sick the next morning, you get up feeling refreshed, energised and ready to face the world !


But wait, there's more!

When taken GHB also causes the release of a small amount of Oxytocin (the brain's natural social bonding chemical), it's nowhere near enough to give you the loved up euphoria of mdma, but it will help you be more sociable and remove any violent tendencies you may have.


GHB has been around since the 60's and numerous tests have been conducted, each time proving that it is comletely non-toxic. In Italy they give it alcoholics for the obvious health benifits of them stopping alcohol use.


So in summary what would legalising GHB achieve?

Health expenditure dropping as alcohol related illnesses decrease vastly.
Millions saved in the economy (hugely reduced hangover-induced unproductivity)
Late night violence dropping (huge reducion in violent drunkeness - although silly drunken shenanigans will still exist).

but most importantly, more fun nights out with a hangover free morning after !

what ya think?

MooseJam

sounds good, why is it illegal ?

Feelgood

So basically GHB = No GBH?

Cookie_Monster

I like beer

Prof.Badass

MooseJam wrote: »

sounds good, why is it illegal ?

Classic knee jerk reaction. :eek::eek::eek: new drug on the club scene!!! :eek::eek::eek:.

ban it immediately :rolleyes:!

unfortunately, if it had have not become popular untill now, it probably wouldn't get banned.

Feelgood

vinylmesh wrote: »

Classic knee jerk reaction. :eek::eek::eek: new drug on the club scene!!! :eek::eek::eek:.

ban it immediately :rolleyes:!

GBH aint new?. They were talking about this back in the media around 1995 during the ecstasy / clubbing years.

At the time I think I also remember that it was deemed extremely lethal in comparison to MDMA.

Alter-Ego

Sounds a bit fairytale. I'm gonna do some research.

Prof.Badass

Feelgood wrote: »

GBH aint new?. They were talking about this back in the media around 1995 during the ecstasy / clubbing years.

yeah exactly, back then such knee-jerk reactions were common and usually went uncontested.

I'm not saying it's new now, i'm saying that it was "new" in their eyes when they banned it (even though it had been around since the 60's).


http://www.beckleyfoundation.org/img/scale_of_harm.jpg

It was ranked #17 out of 20 drugs. cannabis #11, alcohol #5.

Turd Ferguson

Alter-Ego wrote: »

I'm gonna do some research.

Wikipedia?

Dragan

MooseJam wrote: »

sounds good, why is it illegal ?

"Common" use would be as a date rape drug.

seamus

It's ridiculously easy to overdose on it, primarily because it acts very quickly. Apparently when mixed with alcohol, you've no hope of staying vertical, hence the popularity as a date rape drug.

Asking why it's not legalised is the same as asking why prozac and horse tranquilisers aren't sold in supermarkets.

Wagon

Dragan wrote: »

"Common" use would be as a date rape drug.

I thought Rohypnol was leading the charge there. Or Pernod and Blacks.

Prof.Badass

It's only easy to overdose on if you don't know what dose you are taking.

Any sedative can be used as a date rape drug. IN fact a study once found that alcohol is the biggest date rape drug of them all.

If you have GHB slipped into your drink then you're going to notice a very distict salty/soapy taste.

Imagine downing 6 pints when you're already drunk. This is what taking an unknown dose of ghb after drinking is like. Mixing alcohol with GHB is like taking a double dose, not wise!

Make it only available in non-dissolveable pill form, which will remove the possibility of it being slipped into drinks.

The Don

Wiki link here. Doesn't look great.

It is also used illegally either as an intoxicant or as a date rape drug.

GHB can be physically addictive and may result in psychological addiction. Physical dependence develops when GHB is taken on a regular basis (i.e., every 2-4 hours for multiple consecutive days or weeks). Withdrawal effects may include insomnia, restlessness, anxiety, tremors, sweating, loss of appetite, edginess, tachycardia, chest pain and tightness, muscle and bone aches, sensitivity to external stimuli (sound, light, touch), dysphoria, and mental dullness. These side-effects will subside after 2 - 21 days, depending on frequency of usage and the size of the doses used. In particularly severe cases, withdrawal from GHB may cause symptoms similar to acute withdrawal from alcohol or barbiturates (delirium tremens) and can cause convulsions and hallucinations.

Although there have been reported fatalities due to GHB withdrawal, reports are inconclusive and further research is needed. Unlike alcohol, there is no firm data that chronic use of GHB causes permanent damage to the body. In rats, no organ or brain damage was observed after chronic administration of GBL (a precursor to GHB).[46]

Think I'll stick to Guinness.

missingtime

Dragan wrote: »

"Common" use would be as a date rape drug.

Ahhh. I knew it sounded familiar.

Feelgood

vinylmesh wrote: »

yeah exactly, back then such knee-jerk reactions were common and usually went uncontested.

I'm not saying it's new now, i'm saying that it was "new" in their eyes when they banned it (even though it had been around since the 60's).

http://www.beckleyfoundation.org/img/scale_of_harm.jpg

It was ranked #17 out of 20 drugs. cannabis #11, alcohol #5.

Ecstasy / MDMA has been around since the 50's?. Used to treat psyzophrenia at one stage. Now its a class A drug and illegal also?.

Whats your point?.

Slow Motion

seamus wrote: »

It's ridiculously easy to overdose on it, primarily because it acts very quickly. Apparently when mixed with alcohol, you've no hope of staying vertical, hence the popularity as a date rape drug.

But what if we all promise not to use it for rape? (where is the innocent smiley?)

The Don

vinylmesh wrote: »

If you have GHB slipped into your drink then you're going to notice a very distict salty/soapy taste.

Make it only available in non-dissolveable pill form, which will remove the possibility of it being slipped into drinks.

Taken from the wiki again.

it has been described as "very easy to add to drinks" that mask the flavor. GHB has been used in cases of drug-related sexual assault, usually when the victim is vulnerable due to intoxication with a sedative, generally alcohol and as such are less likely to notice a strange taste to his or her drink. However it is difficult to establish how often GHB is used to facilitate rape as it is difficult to detect in a urine sample after a day, and many victims may not recall the rape until some time after this.
GHB, produced as a sodium salt (sodium oxybate), may provide a noticeable salty character to the drink, although individual sensitivity to the taste of salt varies. GHB can also be produced as different salts, some of which may not have a taste as distinctive as the sodium salt (e.g., magnesium oxybate), or much less commonly in the unstable free-acid form.

Prof.Badass

GHB can be physically addictive and may result in psychological addiction. Physical dependence develops when GHB is taken on a regular basis (i.e., every 2-4 hours for multiple consecutive days or weeks). Withdrawal effects may include insomnia, restlessness, anxiety, tremors, sweating, loss of appetite, edginess, tachycardia, chest pain and tightness, muscle and bone aches, sensitivity to external stimuli (sound, light, touch), dysphoria, and mental dullness. These side-effects will subside after 2 - 21 days, depending on frequency of usage and the size of the doses used. In particularly severe cases, withdrawal from GHB may cause symptoms similar to acute withdrawal from alcohol or barbiturates (delirium tremens) and can cause convulsions and hallucinations.

Although there have been reported fatalities due to GHB withdrawal, reports are inconclusive and further research is needed. Unlike alcohol, there is no firm data that chronic use of GHB causes permanent damage to the body. In rats, no organ or brain damage was observed after chronic administration of GBL (a precursor to GHB).[46]

These effects are also shared by alcohol. The above passage basically says that's it's safer!

again. Any sedative can be used as a date rape drug. Alcohol is by far the biggest date-rape drug of all.

If you only allow it in non-dissolveable pill form then people will not be able to use it as a date-rape drug. simple as that, problem solved.

(don't shoot down something immediately, without thinking about the obvious solutions to any problems that might be thrown up! )

seamus

vinylmesh wrote: »

It's only easy to overdose on if you don't know what dose you are taking.

And you trust people to give themselves the correct dosage?

The only reason why we don't have more cases of alcohol poisoning (and we have a lot) is because there's only so much you can drink in one sitting. Most people end up throwing up the contents of their stomach before they get a chance to OD on alcohol.

In a pill form, every moron will throw ten in their mouth and say bye-bye.

Just to look at your primary reasons:

Health expenditure dropping as alcohol related illnesses decrease vastly.
Millions saved in the economy (hugely reduced hangover-induced unproductivity)
Late night violence dropping

The vast bulk of "alcohol related illness" relates to injuries sustained due to intoxication. GHB still makes you "drunk", so people will still injure themselves. Ditto for violence - drink doesn't make people violent. It lowers your inhibitions, so people who are angry/violent but under control when sober, lose control when drunk.

I'm also not sure what effect hangover-induced unproductivity costs the economy. An ESRI (?) study released in 2005 (?) showed that 40% of sick days were taken on Mondays and Fridays. In other words, drinking on or around the weekend makes no difference to the number of sick days taken. Can you say that people taking GHB will actually go to work the next day sober? Or because they don't fear a hangover, will they stay up will 5am on GHB and crawl into work exhausted?

arybvtcw0eolkf

The OP is risking confusing GHB with GABA.

GABA is commonly used as a sport suppliment to boost GH levels, aid sleep & promote recovery.

It mimicks GHB, but in a very weakened way.

I've used both GHB & GABA, GHB is a very dangerous drug to use. The user has to find his/her own tolerance limits to it and as its tasteless its commonly used as a date rape drug.

Its very easy to OD on, indeed most user's will regularly OD on it to at least some extent.

GABA is legal and is a brilliant aid to sleep, and so as such promotes growth hormone and sports recovery.

Feelgood

vinylmesh wrote: »

If you only allow it in non-dissolveable pill form then people will not be able to use it as a date-rape drug.

If the pill doesn't dissolve then how does it get into your bloodstream?.

Sam Vimes

vinylmesh wrote: »

When taken it is metabolised right the way down to CO2 and water (unlike alcohol which is metabolised into vinegar)!

is it not metabolised into ethanal, not ethanoic acid (vinegar)?

Prof.Badass

Feelgood wrote: »

If the pill doesn't dissolve then how does it get into your bloodstream?.

it'll dissolve in your stomach, not in a glass of water.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

is it not metabolised into ethanal, not ethanoic acid (vinegar)?

it is metabolised into ethanal, then the ethanal is metabolised into ethanoic acid (vinegar). Ethanoic acid is the final product of alcohol metabolism.


I am not confusing GHB with GABA. GABA is the chemical used in the brain. Your blood brain barrier stops any extra GABA from reaching your brain.

That's why people have to take drugs such as alcohol, ghb and valium (which bind to your brains GABA receptors) to get the euphoric effects of increased GABA in the brain.

Feelgood

Dunno dude, at the end of the day if it was good for you....

A) It wouldn't be illegal

and

Everyone would be doing it

werewolfsalami

first of all lol at the following username/quote combo

missingtime wrote: »

Ahhh. I knew it sounded familiar.

hahaahaa,
i mean, is there anything you need to post over anon. over on the personal issues forum

second of all,
think of the stupidest person you know using this drug.
then multiply it by dublin.
no offence, dublin is just an example of a large city.
i could have said cork.
but i didnt.

arybvtcw0eolkf

vinylmesh wrote: »

If you only allow it in non-dissolveable pill form then people will not be able to use it as a date-rape drug. simple as that, problem solved.

One problem there is that the ingredients are readily available to do your own home brew GHB.

I used to make my own ... scratch the surface and ol' Mairt is a bit of a dark horse!.

Prof.Badass

seamus wrote: »

In a pill form, every moron will throw ten in their mouth and say bye-bye.

Just to look at your primary reasons:

The vast bulk of "alcohol related illness" relates to injuries sustained due to intoxication. GHB still makes you "drunk", so people will still injure themselves. Ditto for violence - drink doesn't make people violent. It lowers your inhibitions, so people who are angry/violent but under control when sober, lose control when drunk.

I'm also not sure what effect hangover-induced unproductivity costs the economy. An ESRI (?) study released in 2005 (?) showed that 40% of sick days were taken on Mondays and Fridays. In other words, drinking on or around the weekend makes no difference to the number of sick days taken. Can you say that people taking GHB will actually go to work the next day sober? Or because they don't fear a hangover, will they stay up will 5am on GHB and crawl into work exhausted?

Overdose on GHB, and you'll pass out, and not wake up for 4 hours, with no damage done. I don't think people would want that embarrasment.they'd learn pretty fast.

people don't take 10 party pills, so i don't think the same would happen with any other legal pills.

The oxytocin release from GHB stops people from being violent.

The dopamine rebound stops you from being tired when you come down off ghb, it makes you feel energetic.

Mairt wrote: »

One problem there is that the ingredients are readily available to do your own home brew GHB.



I used to make my own ... scratch the surface and ol' Mairt is a bit of a dark horse!.

yeah, but right now, they're illegal in ireland. Keep the same punishments in place for illegally making it.

If people can buy it legally in pill form, i don't think they'd be bothered cooking it up at home. Some will (just like the amount who home -brew alcohol), but the number of people making it if it was legal would definately be lower than the number of people making it now (just like with alcohol prohibition in the states).

Feelgood

Overdose on GHB, and you'll pass out, and not wake up for 4 hours, with no damage done.

Why would I want to take something that could possibly make me pass out for 4 hours?. Not a great night IMO

The oxytocin release from GHB stops people from being violent.

I'm not violent anyway, on drink or otherwise so whats the point?

The dopamine rebound stops you from being tired when you come down off ghb, it makes you feel energetic.

Banging the missus can also give said "high" and energise you.

Prof.Badass

Feelgood wrote: »

Why would I want to take something that could possibly make me pass out for 4 hours?. Not a great night IMO

fine then don't. alcohol will make you pass out aswell, though. It's all about the dosage.

I'm not violent anyway, on drink or otherwise so whats the point?

well then it doesn't matter for you.I'm not saying alcohol should be banned, i'm saying people should be given the choice.

If someone can take something healthier, hangoverless and more fun, then i think a lot of people would take it. Sorry to generalise here, but people from backgrounds where drunken violence is acceptable would have no problem popping a pill to get drunk. If they're slightly loved up, they're not going to want to hurt people.

Banging the missus can also give said "high" and energise you.

fair enough.

oeb

Feelgood wrote: »

Why would I want to take something that could possibly make me pass out for 4 hours?. Not a great night IMO

I think his point is that beer can also make you pass out for four hours. Does that stop you drinking it? Or does it just mean you don't act the ass on it and drink yourself into a stupor?

It seems funny how many people are complaining about the bad effects in that wiki article, when nearly every single one of them is also attributed to alchohol.