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Moving from US to Dublin - financial considerations
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11-07-2008 1:26am#1I'm considering taking a new job that requires "permanent" relocation to Dublin. Primary to my consideration is how we transition financially. I'm not sure how to formulate a cost of living equation for living in the Dublin area. What I really need to know is this: will the salary range (in Euros) that my prospective employer in Dublin is offering be enough for a family of 4 to make it a doable transition.
I've done a little bit of research. Enough to learn that it looks like fixed monthly health care costs will go down in Ireland - depends on how much a supplemental health plan will cost us over there. It looks like the tax burden will be different. How different? Where I'm at now (Austin TX) I pay federal income taxes, as well as state sales tax. Looks like in Ireland there is a single national income tax, plus sales tax.
The part of this deal that concerns me is compensation range for the position in Dublin. It just so happens to match closely the range I'm in here, if you multiply my US salary by the current dollar->Euro conversion rate. So in Dublin my gross would be about 65% of what I'm earning here, one-to-one. But do I gain ~35% in buying power against basic goods and services, spending Euros? Probably not.
It would be great is someone could chime in w/answers to the following question. Considering the scenario below, what would you be looking for in terms of total gross family income (Euros - per month)?...
- rent a 4 bedroom home (or apartment... for two adults, 2 kids, extra bedroom/office) - both kids primary school age
- one family car plus one large scooter (or another smaller car if we can afford it - we have two cars here in US, but I'm thinking better transportation options may put a lower priority on keeping two vehicles capable of carting the family around)
- we would like to live as close to Dublin center as possible, but our location priority will be weighted toward proximity to a primary school, to work location (West Dublin/Blanchardstown area, with frequent trips to the airport), and affordability of course. After browsing daft.ie a bit it looks like cost of living by location within the Dublin area is highly variable.
- we don't want to be cash strapped - would like be able to afford a outing in the countryside ~once a month, restaurants every now and then, travel abroad for a few weeks once a year, etc. We're not living rich here. We don't expect to live rich in Dublin either. (...although culturally Dublin certainly is certainly a much much richer place to live
- even when compared to hip Austin)
- we cook most meals at home - very little junk food - so we buy higher quality foods and put some effort into cooking/eating healthy.
We live a relatively comfortable middle class lifestyle in the US.
What is it going to take per year (in Euros)? 5k/month (60K/yr)? 6.5K/month (78K Euro/yr)? 8K/month (96K Euro/yr?)
And, given the three numbers above, what would the net (take home) monthly income look like after taxes?
Have at it financial wizards - and many many thanks in advance for your shared thoughts!0
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Instead of looking at your gross salary- you really need to look at your NET salary. Tax rates here in Ireland are vastly different to those in the US. Up to about about 35k you pay 20% base tax + another say 6% in PRSI and related contributions. Anything over is 40% base + say another 7% in PRSI and related contributions.
The sales tax here, or VAT (Value Added Tax) varies depending on the nature of the good- but max'es out at 21% (some services are exempt, others are at lower 11 or 13% rates). In addition there is a one-off "Vehicle Registration Tax" for motor vehicles- I'm not sure how its calculated, but I think it can be up to 20% of the book value of the vehicle (ontop of VAT......)
Living in Dublin is roughly on par with living in New York expense wise.
A report during the week in the Irish Independent (I'll see if I can find a link to it), puts the combined cost of running an average family car for a year here at EUR12,000 (this is fuel, insurance, tax and tolls- and will obviously vary on how much you use the car- but you can reasonably expect tax to be roughly 600 on a 2 litre second hand car, insurance 7-800 (as you have no Irish driving history), and fuel is currently about Euro 1.35 a litre here for petrol or as much as Euro 1.45 for diesel.
Scooters are incredibly cheap here- tax is neglible, running costs very low (the insurance though is extremely high).
Health costs are much cheaper than in the US- there are various gradiated private health care schemes available- a typical family of 4 could expect a reasonable level of cover for about EUR3k per annum (which is tax deductable!)
Daft is a very good place to try to price accommodation.
Some areas (particularly west Dublin / Ongar / Blanchardstown / Clonsilla / Clonee / Lucan / Adamstown) have grown up to 10 fold in the past 7-8 years. School places can be a big issue- and as you have two young children is perhaps something that you should urgently explore.
Irish rentals tend to be fully furnished- unlike in the US- so this is a cost you do not have to worry about.
Outings in the countryside have a very neglible cost and are something that lots of us do the whole time. There are lots of hill walking, water sports, golf, orientiering, historical sites etc all within a very short distance of Dublin and normally with very nominal charges. Finances are not normally an issue availing of them- time constraints can be though!
We do tend to have very good availability of fresh foods here in Ireland (its what we're famous for!). In addition to the Supermarkets, most areas have local farmers markets where you can get incredibly fresh fruit/veg/meat at less than you'd normally pay in the Supermarket (note: they are still not cheap- food costs here have shot up over the past year- we have the third highest rate of inflation in all of the 27 EU States).
You can get ripped off in a lot of Irish Restraunts- but some of the best restraunts in the country have incredibly good value set menus- Roly's Bistro (5*) in Ballsbridge will do a 4 course set lunch/dinner for EUR20 per head (excluding wine). Not bad when you consider that a crabby McDonalds meal can be as much as 6.99 for a Big Mac Meal (things really are much more expensive here!!!!)
Its really impossible to put a price on how much it costs to comfortably run a family home for a family of 4 but I'll hazard a guess:
Rent @ EUR1500 for a nice apartment in a reasonable area
School contribution of EUR2k/pa per child (its not classed as a "fee" but you do get pressurised into making a "donation").
Car + Moped @ 15k for the year (think thats reasonable?- correct me if someone disagrees)
Food/Groceries- 700-800 per month (family of 4 eating healthily- sounds about right)
Healthcare- 3k
General outings/odd restraunt visit etc- 6k for the year
Uniforms/books/clothes/consumer goods - another 7-8k for the family (kids really get through stuff......)
I may be a little on the upside with the figure above- but you're over EUR60k after tax income by my figures (for a family of 4 living a reasonable lifestyle, this probably is not extravagant by any means).
For an after tax income of 65/70k you would very probably need a gross income of over 100k.........
I don't mean to upset you- but we are an incredibly expensive country.........0 -
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you get basic healthcare for free. you can then pay 100-400 euro/month for supplementary healthcare benefits that give you faster access to specialist doctors and better accommodation in hospital.I've done a little bit of research. Enough to learn that it looks like fixed monthly health care costs will go down in Ireland - depends on how much a supplemental health plan will cost us over there.
Social insurance plus income tax on 100k euro/year totals about 30%. sales tax (VAT) is 21% on many goods. Ireland is one of the most expensive countries in europe.It looks like the tax burden will be different. How different? Where I'm at now (Austin TX) I pay federal income taxes, as well as state sales tax. Looks like in Ireland there is a single national income tax, plus sales tax.
Definitely not. Minimum wage in Ireland is the euro equivalent of $13.60/hour. You will need to earn a multiple of this to justify moving a family to another continent.The part of this deal that concerns me is compensation range for the position in Dublin. It just so happens to match closely the range I'm in here, if you multiply my US salary by the current dollar->Euro conversion rate. So in Dublin my gross would be about 65% of what I'm earning here, one-to-one. But do I gain ~35% in buying power against basic goods and services, spending Euros? Probably not.
2500-3500 euro per month for a middle class area. Primary schooling is free. You may be able to claim up to 2800 euro /year in child benefit from the state per child under 5 and 1800/child over 5 - if you can establish habitual residence (if the govt believes you intend to stay here long term).- rent a 4 bedroom home (or apartment... for two adults, 2 kids, extra bedroom/office) - both kids primary school age
What you consider a normal family car in the America such as a Camry is considered very large here. Something like a corolla that costs €15K is €33K in Ireland. Fuel is $8/us gallon. Insurance will probably be high because you have no local claims history. Even annual car tax will likely be $600+ for a small family car. Either bring your own car over or buy a very small car.- one family car plus one large scooter (or another smaller car if we can afford it - we have two cars here in US, but I'm thinking better transportation options may put a lower priority on keeping two vehicles capable of carting the family around)
Yes prices in Dublin are highly variable with area. You would need to specify your requirements to someone who is very familiar with Dublin and could recommend an area to you. West Dublin is a very large area.- we would like to live as close to Dublin center as possible, but our location priority will be weighted toward proximity to a primary school, to work location (West Dublin/Blanchardstown area, with frequent trips to the airport), and affordability of course. After browsing daft.ie a bit it looks like cost of living by location within the Dublin area is highly variable.
Grocery prices are higher here than in the US. Restaurants cost more and servings are smaller!- we don't want to be cash strapped - would like be able to afford a outing in the countryside ~once a month, restaurants every now and then, travel abroad for a few weeks once a year, etc. We're not living rich here. We don't expect to live rich in Dublin either. (...although culturally Dublin certainly is certainly a much much richer place to live - even when compared to hip Austin)
- we cook most meals at home - very little junk food - so we buy higher quality foods and put some effort into cooking/eating healthy.
I would say 78K euro/year would be a minimum. Many companies will offer relocation allowances.We live a relatively comfortable middle class lifestyle in the US.
What is it going to take per year (in Euros)? 5k/month (60K/yr)? 6.5K/month (78K Euro/yr)? 8K/month (96K Euro/yr?)
You may consider shipping furniture and a car from the US over here. It's not that expensive and should help with the car costs.0 -
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Honestly, if you are enjoying a decent middle class lifestyle in Austin (lower living costs compared to Dublin) I would think a combined family income of 100k pre-tax would be needed to compensate for moving and allow a family of 4 to live in the same manner in Dublin. I don't think <80k combined would do it...I don't have children, but have heard rumours that housing, clothing, feeding and entertaining them is expensive! 0
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Ok, If you're working in blanch, you could rent a nice house in the countryside, easily a 20/30 min drive to blanch. Rent in Maynooth is about 2/3 the rent in Dublin, and you will get a mich bigger house with a larger garden for your buck.
Commuter trains go to blanch/west dublin every 20 mins during commute hours(train to blanch takes 20 mins ish), and the town is on a motorway that goes to the airport.
my 2c
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You might look at the experiences of wyk - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055134771 - he has a few threads over the months.
You might ask for a temporary placement of 1-2 months just for yourself, sothat you can guage things.I'm considering taking a new job that requires "permanent" relocation to Dublin.
The flip side of money is quality, what you expect to be included or pay extra for in location is different for another location.Primary to my consideration is how we transition financially.
Note that you generally don't get reimbursed for GP (MD) visits here, but they are tax-deductable. There may also be a delay before you are eligible for public health care - you can't just land at the airport and expect that triple heart bypass for free. That said its generally a matter of fix the person first, bill later. I had a kidney stone recently and it was a matter of GP visit (€55), ambulance (free), A&E (emergency room) bed for 8 hours (free), 2 CAT scans (free), blood samples (free), after care check with GP (€55), after care check with senior consultant (free). They accidentally billed me for the A&E, but waived that because I had a referal from my GP.Enough to learn that it looks like fixed monthly health care costs will go down in Ireland - depends on how much a supplemental health plan will cost us over there.
Income tax essentially operates as single system, but has 3 components - Income Tax (PAYE), social insurance (PRSI) and Health Levy. The imount you pay increases with income and you need to look at the system as a whole. There are some valuable tax allowances if you are paying towards your own pension, health insurance, mortgage and other cost headings - essentially if you look after yourself, the tax system is nice to you. Married couples can share some tax allowances.It looks like the tax burden will be different. How different? Where I'm at now (Austin TX) I pay federal income taxes, as well as state sales tax. Looks like in Ireland there is a single national income tax, plus sales tax.
For certain cases like yours, you can pay your taxes on a remittances basis - that is you only pay income tax on what you spend in Ireland, but as you are thinking of moving here permanently, this may not apply. If you want to move a lot of you possessions, you might be able to do so tax-free, but you need to examine it carefully and get proper advice.
There are essentially no state or local taxes - although you will need to pay the local council for refuse (garbage) collection and motor tax. VAT is already included on all consumer prices, but are likely to be quoted pre-VAT for business.
Cost is very much location and size dependent. Houses tend to be smaller here, without basements and if the attic is usable, this would be made clear in the ad.- rent a 4 bedroom home (or apartment... for two adults, 2 kids, extra bedroom/office) - both kids primary school age
Population growth in Blanchardstown means most schools are over-subscribed. Irish schools tend to be smaller (200-600 students) and you can apply to any school that will take you - no legal school districts.
Consider your options, balancing number and distance of journeys with initial, fixed and varaible costs. The tax system changed on cars on 1st July so expect some settleing in time.- one family car plus one large scooter (or another smaller car if we can afford it - we have two cars here in US, but I'm thinking better transportation options may put a lower priority on keeping two vehicles capable of carting the family around)
Balance things by the number of journeys made - even one flight a week is insignificant to 5-10 work / school trips per week.- we would like to live as close to Dublin center as possible, but our location priority will be weighted toward proximity to a primary school, to work location (West Dublin/Blanchardstown area, with frequent trips to the airport), and affordability of course. After browsing daft.ie a bit it looks like cost of living by location within the Dublin area is highly variable.
It is easy to do a lot of things for free, although some admissions can be steep.- we don't want to be cash strapped - would like be able to afford a outing in the countryside ~once a month, restaurants every now and then, travel abroad for a few weeks once a year, etc. We're not living rich here. We don't expect to live rich in Dublin either. (...although culturally Dublin certainly is certainly a much much richer place to live - even when compared to hip Austin)- we cook most meals at home - very little junk food - so we buy higher quality foods and put some effort into cooking/eating healthy.This is usual, although many people will eat out or get food delivered a few times a week.
Suggestion: Work out a list of everything you spent for a month a home, type up a list and we'll try to put a price on it.
The changes in car tax may not have filtered down into many of those prices. http://www.aaireland.ie/toptips/costofmotoring2005.aspTo see car prices - www.carzone.ie www.cbg.ie
Ireland is quite different to Texas when it comes to crime - gun crime is very rare (unless you are in the drugs trade), although you may see a lot of low level nuisance.There are alot of areas around there that I would not like to live in as a new comer to the country either and wouldn't feel completely safe in,same as anywhere really:)
This is over stated, my nieces attend a 'nice' school and its €400 each, that said, add uniforms, books, trips, etc.smccarrick wrote: »School contribution of EUR2k/pa per child (its not classed as a "fee" but you do get pressurised into making a "donation").
Of course that can all be very traffic dependent - the Blachardstown Interchange upgrade is starting and who know how bad traffic will get.FuzzyLogic wrote: »Ok, If you're working in blanch, you could rent a nice house in the countryside, easily a 20/30 min drive to blanch. Rent in Maynooth0 -
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