London Irish Captain on TV3 news..

chic chick

They interviewed Casey on the sports news on TV3.Just wondering if anyone noticed RTE sports news never give them much coverage. Wasn't a mention of them for the quarter finals. Just felt that with an Irish captain and with other Irish players (ok I know its only a few) they may have given them some credit for reaching the semis of the HC.

Podge_irl

Leicester probably have more Irish players than London Irish. They are, despite their name, an English club and while I have no doubt some people from here support them I'm not surprised they don't get a lot of coverage.

toomevara

80% of the clubs shareholder's are Irish and a good proportion of the other 20% are second, third generation Irish. They make a massive contribution to the Irish community in London and if you go to any game the vast majority of the crowd are ,as I was, genuine London Irish.

So while currently, on the field, the representation may be sparse..constitutionally and culturally the club is as Irish,imo, as Munster. So damn the begrudgers and more power to 'em!

Podge_irl

The London Irish professional team are fairly seperated from the amateur organisation aren't they? I'm aware the amateur organisation still has strong links to Ireland, but quite frankly I can understand the GP team not doing so - they do get funding of the RFU and all that.
I don't begrudge them anything, I hope they beat Tououse at the weekend and it would set up an awesome final. And while they have an impact on the Irish community in London, the success or otherwise probably isn't of much interest here. I'm just not surprised they aren't reported on on RTÉ, rugby is a minority sport as is and most Irish people here would support the local provincial teams only really.

mc23

Is Bob Casey the only Irish qualified player in the LI squad at the moment? Geraghty was a massive loss to Ireland.

toomevara

mc23 wrote: »

Is Bob Casey the only Irish qualified player in the LI squad at the moment? Geraghty was a massive loss to Ireland.

Bob Casey, Aidan McCullen, Eoghan Hickey and Jeremy Staunton are all Irish qualified. 4 out of a squad of 38....

toomevara

Podge_irl wrote: »

The London Irish professional team are fairly seperated from the amateur organisation aren't they? I'm aware the amateur organisation still has strong links to Ireland, but quite frankly I can understand the GP team not doing so -

As regards the amateur side, they've got about 4 or five adult teams I think...including the famous 'wild geese'. They're all based at Sunbury LI's original home.
They've got underage at every level too.As far as I know both professional and amateur outfits operate under the same banner and there's alot of cooperation between the two.

www.london-irish-amateur.co.uk

EdgarAllenPoo

toomevara wrote: »

Bob Casey, Aidan McCullen, Eoghan Hickey and Jeremy Staunton are all Irish qualified. 4 out of a squad of 38....

Shane Geraghty and Nick Keneddy are also qualified to play for Ireland but choose the English route instead.

Stev_o

GDM wrote: »

Shane Geraghty and Nick Keneddy are also qualified to play for Ireland but choose the English route instead.

How did Kennedy slip through the net *bangs head*

Podge_irl

I think Casey and Brian Smith tend to encourage people to go the England route were possible, in no small part due to EOS's treatment of Casey. I actually have no major problem with Casey being left out of the squads, as I think we're well served at lock, but Eddie claiming to have talked to Casey and told him what parts of his game to work on when Casey says he's tried contacting Eddie but to no avail sounds well dodgy.

thehighground

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think Casey and Brian Smith tend to encourage people to go the England route were possible, in no small part due to EOS's treatment of Casey. I actually have no major problem with Casey being left out of the squads, as I think we're well served at lock, but Eddie claiming to have talked to Casey and told him what parts of his game to work on when Casey says he's tried contacting Eddie but to no avail sounds well dodgy.

Not, according to this from the Irish Independent a few weeks back.

London Irish meet French club Perpignan tomorrow bidding for a
place in the semi-finals of the Heineken Cup.

Peter Bills
Friday April 04

Munster, forever Munster, are also there; away to Gloucester. But
suggest to Brian Smith, London Irish's highly regarded Director of
Rugby, that there's really only one Irish team left in the last eight
and you'll get a lengthy, reasoned response which dismantles your
theory.

Smith says in his quiet yet firm way: "I get annoyed when people say
London Irish is not Irish. The fact is, the Irish connections are still
very strong here. There's quite a few players here that could have
declared for Ireland. I believe that we have five players, all of them
potentially qualified for Ireland, who could have proved regular and
highly valuable performers at Test level. They are Bob Casey, Nick
Kennedy, Kieran Roche, Declan Dannaher and Shane Geraghty."

Would Dannaher and Roche have really made international players?
Smith thinks so. "Maybe they wouldn't have been starting Test
players but I believe they could have been highly valuable additions
to Ireland's squad. There are few better aerial No 6s than Roche. He
could have had an outstanding Test career. And they have both
played for England A."

Kennedy, according to his club coach, could be an England lock for
the next 10 years. "He is ready to go, he's on everyone's lips. He's
smart, he calls line-outs brilliantly and is easy to get into the air. I
guess because Ireland had Paul O'Connell and Donncha O'Callaghan
they felt they had plenty of good locks. But you can never have
enough of them. And by the time Ireland got interested in him, he
was already part of the England Saxons set up. But I know that Nick
would have played for Ireland if they had called two or three years
earlier. Ireland need to get these guys when they are around 20.

As for Casey, Smith believes few will understand why he hasn't
played for Ireland for eight years. "It's a shame. There seemed to be
a policy that you had to play in Ireland to get into the Test team, or
at least that view appeared to be taken with most players. It cost
Bob a lot of Tests."

It's interesting to note that even the World Champions South Africa,
who used to stick rigidly to such a policy, have quietly buried it in
recent times. Players like Percy Montgomery, Victor Matfield and
John Smit underline the quiet change of the Springboks' philosophy.

Geraghty, says Smith, again wasn't spotted soon enough. "With all
these guys, if they had been identified early enough, I am certain
they would have been available to Ireland."

Smith doesn't say this as some snide criticism of the former Ireland
coaching regime, rather as a way of emphasising that his club does
still have firm Irish roots. But he also says it because he'd like to see
Ireland re-establishing closer ties with London Irish and benefiting
from any promising youngsters who may emerge.

"If lads like these feel Ireland take an interest in them before
England, if they are involved with Ireland early on, then I'm sure
they would have a great chance of getting them."

And, incidentally, how can you call London Irish not very Irish when
the incomparable Kieran McCarthy is still there as team manager and
soul of the entire club?

The marvellous McCarthy is undoubtedly as Irish as shamrocks and
Guinness.

But how does Smith see tomorrow's quarter final tie with Percy
Montgomery's improving Perpignan? "I think guys like the ones I
have mentioned will drag us through on Saturday. We've scored 25
tries in the Heineken Cup this season and are the second seeded
team. But we know we're going to have to play our socks off to reach
the semi-finals; it's probably a 50/50 chance. But if we can bring
intensity and precision to the game, then we can do it."

Podge_irl

Yes, but from the same article:

As for Casey, Smith believes few will understand why he hasn't
played for Ireland for eight years. "It's a shame. There seemed to be
a policy that you had to play in Ireland to get into the Test team, or
at least that view appeared to be taken with most players. It cost
Bob a lot of Tests."

Smith's problems (and Casey's) aren't with Ireland, they are with O'Sullivan. After deciding Ireland were ignoring Casey due to him playing in England several Ireland qualified players were nudged in the direction of qualifying for England (or so go the rumours). Maybe things will change now that EOS is gone, who knows.

toomevara

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think Casey and Brian Smith tend to encourage people to go the England route were possible,

Sorry Podge, but that's flat wrong and,imo, just a tad disrespectful and a smidge scurrilous..especially to Casey, who if you know him (and I have to confess, I do) is an ardent and passionate supporter of Irish rugby..there's no way on God's green earth he would ever discourage an Irish qualified player from taking the Ireland route.

burnedfaceman

there was a piece on the rugby club about Shane Geraghty last week, smith encouraged him to play for Ireland and stated he could win a shed load of caps if he did so, but said at end of day don't just listen to what one person has to say decide for yourself. He himself attended colstons premier rugby school in england, both his parents are Irish and he himself felt English and he had been involved in england academy set up before anyone Irish approached him, his main decision was that he knows the quality of the young English players coming through and he wants to be part of that bright future.

At the end of the day I think Ireland should be looking to reestablish the link with London Irish to boost our prospects of bagging players of a similar ilk but ultimately the player has to want to play for Ireland, I for one wouldn't like to see a situation where a potential player only wants to play for Ireland because he feels like he is not good enough for england.

toomevara

burnedfaceman wrote: »

At the end of the day I think Ireland should be looking to reestablish the link with London Irish to boost our prospects of bagging players of a similar ilk but ultimately the player has to want to play for Ireland, I for one wouldn't like to see a situation where a potential player only wants to play for Ireland because he feels like he is not good enough for england.

Absolutely on the money. The strange thing about LI is that they are viewed by the RFU and alot of English clubs as 'not really English' and there's been quite a bit of resentment towards them for a whole host of reasons (often not very palatable ones.)

While on the other hand the Irish rugby establishment, and many Irish people don't really view them as Irish or appreciate what they're about. S'pose if your hacking everyone off you must be doing something right!

Podge_irl

toomevara wrote: »

Sorry Podge, but that's flat wrong and,imo, just a tad disrespectful and a smidge scurrilous..especially to Casey, who if you know him (and I have to confess, I do) is an ardent and passionate supporter of Irish rugby..there's no way on God's green earth he would ever discourage an Irish qualified player from taking the Ireland route.

Fair enough, I apologise if its wrong so, its just what I had heard. I didn't mean it in a disrespectful way, and had it been true I would have understood it as EOS's treatment of Casey has, at best, been odd. Like I mentioned, I never thought his problem was with Irish rugby or Ireland, but rather with the set-up that Eddie had going.

At the end of the day I think Ireland should be looking to reestablish the link with London Irish to boost our prospects of bagging players of a similar ilk

Easier said then done. As things stand they and their academy are part funded by the RFU. It wouldn't be looked on all that kindly if the IRFU were actively linked (in a formal manner at least) to the dual-eligible players.

I wouldn't be bothered about Geraghty. He was born and raised in England and considers himself English. I say fair play to him for taking the harder route to international rugby by declaring for the country he wants to play for. There are certainly players there that we should be looking at though.

toomevara

Podge_irl wrote: »

Fair enough, I apologise if its wrong so, its just what I had heard. I didn't mean it in a disrespectful way,

No worries mate, know you didn't mean it in a disrespectful way, just could be read that way. Have to say I've heard this stuff before and it drives me crazy because nothing could be further from the truth. Suppose you cant beat d'oul Irish rugby rumour mill for throwing up pure tripe...

Amazotheamazing

Casey isn't better than any of MOD, POC, DOC or MOK. He's at Cullen's or Hogan's level. Decent player but we have better options.

London Irish ceased being Irish when the game went pro, leaving Irish in the name doesn't mean they're Irish.

Crash

Not quite sure how you can rate Trevor Hogan and Leo Cullen at the same level there to be honest. I also wouldn't rate MOD as high as POC at his best, DOC and O'Kelly in his day. While he has been playing out of his skin, he can't control a lineout for his life. Cullen MOD and Casey would be in the same league IMO.

remus808

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Casey isn't better than any of MOD, POC, DOC or MOK. He's at Cullen's or Hogan's level. Decent player but we have better options.

Blasphemy.. Cullen is better than either MOD or MOK.

toomevara

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

London Irish ceased being Irish when the game went pro, leaving Irish in the name doesn't mean they're Irish.

What Fabulous logic! Lets peruse it, ahem... so they were Irish on a Monday when the game was amateur, but on the Tuesday, when the game went professional they were suddenly miraculously and arbitrarily no longer deemed 'Irish' whatever in the name of Jaysis that means...pure genius.

So the only difference between them being Irish in your eyes is whether they're being paid for play or not. Would love an exposition of the philosophy behind that little doozy....go on go or it.....I dares ya!

Amazotheamazing

toomevara wrote: »

What Fabulous logic! Lets peruse it, ahem... so they were Irish on a Monday when the game was amateur, but on the Tuesday, when the game went professional they were suddenly miraculously and arbitrarily no longer deemed 'Irish' whatever in the name of Jaysis that means...pure genius.

So the only difference between them being Irish in your eyes is whether they're being paid for play or not. Would love an exposition of the philosophy behind that little doozy....go on go or it.....I dares ya!

Not really, when the game went pro they merged with London Scottish and Richmond, and separated from the mostly Irish amateur set-up. They've nothing to do with Ireland now. Would shout for any other London team ahead of them.

toomevara

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

They've nothing to do with Ireland now. Would shout for any other London team ahead of them.

Sorry Amazo, genuinely don't get that,you'd shout for Quins or Wasps ahead of LI? Fair enough each to his own...we'll have to agree to disagree...guess I wont be seeing you in the stands in Twickenham at the weekend, ah well, we'll manage without you...;)

Amazotheamazing

toomevara wrote: »

Sorry Amazo, genuinely don't get that,you'd shout for Quins or Wasps ahead of LI? Fair enough each to his own...we'll have to agree to disagree...guess I wont be seeing you in the stands in Twickenham at the weekend, ah well, we'll manage without you...;)

Course you will, you'll have plenty of English born plastic paddies going on about how Oirish they are. Joke of a club imo.

thehighground

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Course you will, you'll have plenty of English born plastic paddies going on about how Oirish they are. Joke of a club imo.

Isn't Cathal Ryan (RyanAir) the major shareholder there - he isn't very 'plastic', now is he? And I doubt if he would be big into the 'Oirish' thing, would he.

btw, I hope you never have to emigrate to find out that some ediot back 'on the old sod' refers to your kids as 'plastic paddys'. :mad:

Amazotheamazing

thehighground wrote: »

Isn't Cathal Ryan (RyanAir) the major shareholder there - he isn't very 'plastic', now is he? And I doubt if he would be big into the 'Oirish' thing, would he.

btw, I hope you never have to emigrate to find out that some ediot back 'on the old sod' refers to your kids as 'plastic paddys'. :mad:

Some of my family has emigrated, I now have Canadian and Australian nieces and nephews, they aren't Irish kids that somehow got transported to Canada and Australia, they are kids who were born in their respective countries. If my kids are born in England, they'll be English, if they are born in Iran, they be Iranian, who cares? I'll always be Irish, doesn't mean my kids will be. If i emigrate and raise children abroad, I would be delighted if they felt part of the society in which they were raised and not yearning for some homeland 1,000's of miles away. If my nephews ended up playing for Oz or Canada, (massively unlikely mind you) I wouldn't feel like they should really be playing for Ireland.

Anyhow, like I already said, London Irish effectively stopped being the "Irish" club in London when they merged with richmond and London Scottish. Now they are simply another club in the English league who are based 40 miles from London and aren't Irish, hence their nickname, the not-nots, not London and not Irish.

thehighground

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Some of my family has emigrated, I now have Canadian and Australian nieces and nephews, they aren't Irish kids that somehow got transported to Canada and Australia, they are kids who were born in their respective countries. If my kids are born in England, they'll be English, if they are born in Iran, they be Iranian, who cares? I'll always be Irish, doesn't mean my kids will be. If i emigrate and raise children abroad, I would be delighted if they felt part of the society in which they were raised and not yearning for some homeland 1,000's of miles away. If my nephews ended up playing for Oz or Canada, (massively unlikely mind you) I wouldn't feel like they should really be playing for Ireland.

Anyhow, like I already said, London Irish effectively stopped being the "Irish" club in London when they merged with richmond and London Scottish. Now they are simply another club in the English league who are based 40 miles from London and aren't Irish, hence their nickname, the not-nots, not London and not Irish.

I'm well aware of the nick-name of the not-nots, but I think it is up to themselves if they want to be English or Irish - presumably you have heard the 'born in a stable, doesn't make you a horse' line.

A lot of people who emigrated up to fairly recently had little choice about staying in Ireland and I feel lucky that none of my family actually ended up building the roads and railways of England out of economic necessity - not exactly the glamour jobs available to the Irish of today. Who do you think you are to dictate whether they should yearn for their homeland or not!

For a club that is made up of Scottish, Richmond & Irish., the fact that they retained just the 'Irish' part tells you where they think their root are.

Amazotheamazing

thehighground wrote: »

I'm well aware of the nick-name of the not-nots, but I think it is up to themselves if they want to be English or Irish - presumably you have heard the 'born in a stable, doesn't make you a horse' line.

A lot of people who emigrated up to fairly recently had little choice about staying in Ireland and I feel lucky that none of my family actually ended up building the roads and railways of England out of economic necessity - not exactly the glamour jobs available to the Irish of today. Who do you think you are to dictate whether they should yearn for their homeland or not!

For a club that is made up of Scottish, Richmond & Irish., the fact that they retained just the 'Irish' part tells you where they think their root are.

Yes, London Irish are famous for the supporters they have in Cricklewood and other real Irish ghettos in London....

London Irish are a mercenary team who would drop the word Irish if they felt they could make money by calling themselves something else.

Nothing wrong with someone who left Ireland yearning to return, it's when it seeps down to second generation and further, that I have an issue. If you were born and raised in England, you are English. You aren't Irish simply because your parents are, imo, it takes more than that to be Irish.

ManofMunster

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Nothing wrong with someone who left Ireland yearning to return, it's when it seeps down to second generation and further, that I have an issue. If you were born and raised in England, you are English. You aren't Irish simply because your parents are, imo, it takes more than that to be Irish.

i disagree. i have a number of uncles and aunts living in england and all of their offspring consider themselves irish first and foremost. they learned irish music as kids, did irish dancing, came 'home' for three weeks every summer as kids and just see england as the place where they happened to have been born.

tell simon geoghegan he's not irish

Amazotheamazing

ManofMunster wrote: »

i disagree. i have a number of uncles and aunts living in england and all of their offspring consider themselves irish first and foremost. they learned irish music as kids, did irish dancing, came 'home' for three weeks every summer as kids and just see england as the place where they happened to have been born.

tell simon geoghegan he's not irish

Wow, 21 days a year in Ireland, really, couldn't get more Irish than that.

Next you'll be going on about how Wayne Rooney and Jamie Carragher are massively proud Irishmen who just fell into playing for England due to some clerical mix-up.

Irishness (to me) means a little more than having an irish surname and spending you holidays here. If you nieces and nephews intend to stay in England, live there, die there etc, then in what way are they Irish? Born in England, raised in England, will have kids in England and who'll be buried in England, yep, sounds Irish. Now, obviously I'm being overly harsh, off this messageboard it's obviously not so black and white.

ManofMunster

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Irishness (to me) means a little more than having an irish surname and spending you holidays here. If you nieces and nephews intend to stay in England, live there, die there etc, then in what way are they Irish? Born in England, raised in England, will have kids in England and who'll be buried in England, yep, sounds Irish. Now, obviously I'm being overly harsh, off this messageboard it's obviously not so black and white.

firstly the offspring of one's aunts and uncles are called cousins. but that wasn't my point.

you're seriously telling me you don't think simon geoghegan deserves to call himself irish. if one is brought up in an irish community, by irish parents, supporting irish teams (as geoghegan did as a kid) and maybe even going along to watch london irish play this saturday afternoon and munster on sunday, then one has just as much of a right to call oneself irish as you or I.

Amazotheamazing

Perhaps for you they do, not for me.

As I said, it's not black and white in reality, but born outside Ireland, raised outside Ireland and living outside Ireland isn't Irish to me, especially the more generations removed the person is. Like I said, imo, you are the nationality of whatever country you were born and raised in and it's a fairytale to pretend to be anything else.

What is amazing is that a team based in Reading with less Irish players than English players has somehow fooled a small amount of people into thinking the team in Irish. For example, this weekend more people will travel from Munster to see Munster in Coventry than from London to see "London" "Irish" in London. This is despite the huge number of Irish in England, clearly most of them see through the joke.

toomevara

Bah humbug..you're a bit of a divil Amazo, and no mistake!!! Come on you Irish!!!! Now where's me Leprechaun hat, me red beard and me plastic paddy shillelagh...! All together now "diddle-dee-diddle-de-de-de-diddle-day-oh!!!!

Those of you with a less fascistic/totalitarian outlook, living among the heathen english, and who have, may have, wish they had, (or any combination thereof) some sort of Irish blood/connection;get your ass to Twickers at the wknd and support us poor deluded, race traitor plastics. Amazo, you could always get a Beret and a Toulouse shirt and belt on over (by your lights the Toulouse boys are probably more 'Irish' than LI....:p

thehighground

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Yes, London Irish are famous for the supporters they have in Cricklewood and other real Irish ghettos in London....

Fortunately the ghetto Irish have now come up in the world ... they now are wealthy property developers.

London Irish are a mercenary team who would drop the word Irish if they felt they could make money by calling themselves something else.

In your opinion ....

Nothing wrong with someone who left Ireland yearning to return, it's when it seeps down to second generation and further, that I have an issue. If you were born and raised in England, you are English. You aren't Irish simply because your parents are, imo, it takes more than that to be Irish.

So, you think the Duke of Wellington was deluded into thinking he was not Irish?

thehighground

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Wow, 21 days a year in Ireland, really, couldn't get more Irish than that.

Next you'll be going on about how Wayne Rooney and Jamie Carragher are massively proud Irishmen who just fell into playing for England due to some clerical mix-up.

Didn't Wayne Rooney's granny say something to the effect that Wayne's is Irish on the inside. Interesting to hear David McWilliams talk about meeting the Liverpool Irish (including Wayne's Granny). McWilliams said he was astonished as to how Irish they were, even though some of them had never set foot in Ireland.

thehighground

ManofMunster wrote: »

you're seriously telling me you don't think simon geoghegan deserves to call himself irish. if one is brought up in an irish community, by irish parents, supporting irish teams (as geoghegan did as a kid) and maybe even going along to watch london irish play this saturday afternoon and munster on sunday, then one has just as much of a right to call oneself irish as you or I.

Or indeed, I wouldn't be telling the Easterbys whose father is actually English, that they weren't Irish either, that is unless you have some very good medical insurance.

Worrytahs

mc23 wrote: »

Geraghty was a massive loss to Ireland.

You cant lose what you never had.
Geraghty is an Englishman who is available for selection for his country of birth, residence and nationality.

Worrytahs

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Not really, when the game went pro they merged with London Scottish and Richmond, and separated from the mostly Irish amateur set-up. They've nothing to do with Ireland now. Would shout for any other London team ahead of them.

London Irish are in Reading, Wasps are in High Wycombe and Saracens are in Watford.
I'd say "any other London team" would mean Quins as they're the only GP side in London. Unless you mean the amateur side at Sunbury? I dont think so though.