Tom cracks the Whip. Double penalty points on Bank Holidays

javaboy

From here : http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/12399038?view=Eircomnet

Penalty points for speeding offences should be doubled on bank holiday weekends according to the Government chief whip, Tom Kitt.

The proposed policy mirrors existing legislation in New South Wales, Australia and would see the amount of penalty points received when speeding during bank holidays weekends double.

Mr Kitt said that under the proposals all other offences committed during bank holidays would not be doubled instead one extra penalty point would be added on to the offence.

"A double penalty points regime would apply over 8 bank holiday weekends per year and would act as a recurring reminder to motorists of the dangers of speeding on our roads" Mr Kitt said.

The proposals have been referred to the Minsiter for Transport Noel Dempsey for consideration.

Since its introduction New South Wales has seen a 20 per cent reduction in the number of fatalities.

Meanwhile, gardaí have said they will establish additional checkpoints over the extended holiday period to combat drink-driving and excessive speed.

They also asked motorists to take all necessary steps to ensure their safety and the safety of other road users.

Last year 1,990 motorists were caught speeding and 481 drink-driving over the St Patrick's Day holiday period. Over the Easter period 2,644 speeding motorists and 445 drink-driving incidents were recorded.

niceirishfella

Further evidence we live in an efffing nanny state.

Seth Brundle

At least he said (on the wireless this morning) that he would not endorse a fine increase!
However, I feel that this is somewhat like Mary Whites staggered licences idea. Why should committing an offence such as speeding be worse at certain times than at others. Either they think its wrong or they don't!

Steve

This is getting ridiculous.

There aren't enough Gardai out there enforcing the existing penalty point offences, how is simply increasing the points going to help?:mad:

Seth Brundle

Thats why they are privatising the system!

bruce wayne

yea and whats the bets tha people doing 65 on the Stillorgan Road will be getting the 4 points and the lunitics on the backroads around Donegal doing 120 + wont get touched.....and eh....where are the most deaths occuring ?

Run_to_da_hills

Wait and see, in a few years time Tom Kitt will be the very man that will be hauled in for DD, Speeding or dangerous driving, It happens to them all

cashmni1

Because the traffic doubles on a bank holiday, anyone caught breaking the law, WILL be punished!!
I love it, not a word about taking extra precautions, slowing down, and extra time for your journey because of the extra traffic, oh no, just double the penalty points.
OK, I know they will warn you to slow down alright.
But the best of all is that the politicians qualify this "because New South Wales have it".
"20% reduction in road deaths since this was introduced" . FFS. What a misleading statement.
There might well be a reduction in road deaths in NSW since its introduction, but it is hardley down to this one single change in the law? How about all the other measures inrtoduced to combat road deaths?

ednwireland

its not the doubling of penalty points its getting rid of the discount for admitting speeding . thats why there is no increase in th fines it would require legislation.
still a joke it'll make no difference, most bank holidays i drive round the north west and rarely see a guard.

ballooba

How about they actually enforce the penalty point offences?

How about they increase the number of Gardai on the road at these peak periods?

WHITE_P

kbannon wrote: »

At least he said (on the wireless this morning) that he would not endorse a fine increase!
However, I feel that this is somewhat like Mary Whites staggered licences idea. Why should committing an offence such as speeding be worse at certain times than at others. Either they think its wrong or they don't!

Why indeed ?

JHMEG

Wonder if you contest points you got on a bank holiday weekend will you end up getting 8 points?

Rovi

ednwireland wrote: »

its not the doubling of penalty points its getting rid of the discount for admitting speeding . thats why there is no increase in th fines it would require legislation.

In that case, can we expect to see a huge jump in the number of these 'bank holiday offences' being contested in the courts?
After all, the 2 points 'discount' was to 'encourage' people not to contest the penalty; if that encouragement doesn't apply to these particular cases, why not contest them?

edited to add:
Is see JHMEG got there before me. :rolleyes:

seamus

Another useless suggestion from a useless TD.

There was a TD on the raydeeoh this morning (may have been Tom Kitt) who was pointing to NZ as a prime example of this working. He said that Easter 1996 had 24 deaths and Easter 2006 had 6 deaths. So that's conclusive proof. :rolleyes:

They must do a course in bull**** before they enter the Dáil because they clearly have no concept of what constitutes a valid statistic.

Stick a checkpoint outside every rural pub this weekend and the road deaths will plummett. Double the points and the same amount of people will die but people will get more points.

As an aside, DD offenders should be receiving 6 points and a ban for a DD offence all year round.

Lex Luthor

the price of the pint is also being doubled on bank holiday weekends...what next? :rolleyes:

prospect

There was another accident at the junction near my house last night. This is the same junction my local Rep told me was perfectly safe, even though my neighbour had two cars written off there in the space of 15 months aswell as the almost fortnightly accidents.

Here is the newsflash I am waiting for:
"Government announce the redesigning of Irelands many dangerous junctions. And coupled with this, they are going to cut hedges blocking signs, clean road markings, cats eyes and road signs. Also, cats eyes are going to be standard on all roads. As part of the policy, dangerous verges will be kerbed and potholes properly repaired.
This policy will mirror that of most of the countries in western Europe and should see road deaths & non fatal accidents reduced by 70%"


The government need to face up to their own responsability for our road death tally. It is getting tiresome listening to them blame the motorist all the time.

** Note: I am not saying the motorist is entirely blame free.

javaboy

prospect wrote: »

Here is the newsflash I am waiting for:
"Government announce the redesigning of Irelands many dangerous junctions. And coupled with this, they are going to cut hedges blocking signs, clean road markings, cats eyes and road signs. Also, cats eyes are going to be standard on all roads. As part of the policy, dangerous verges will be kerbed and potholes properly repaired.
This policy will mirror that of most of the countries in western Europe and should see road deaths & non fatal accidents reduced by 70%"

Sorry mittens. It's Van Diemen's Land for you!

JHMEG

In addition local authorities are going to remove "Mud on Road" signs, and clean the mud off the road instead.

They have to be the most Irish signs I've ever seen.

seamus

Or signs like "Dangerous junction ahead", they still baffle me. Why not fix the f*cking junction?

BnA

cashmni1 wrote: »

Because the traffic doubles on a bank holiday, anyone caught breaking the law, WILL be punished!!
I love it, not a word about taking extra precautions, slowing down, and extra time for your journey because of the extra traffic, oh no, just double the penalty points. ....

I can't remember the last bank holiday I didn't hear this mumbo jumbo, and it doesn't seem to be working.

ballooba

BnA wrote: »

I can't remember the last bank holiday I didn't hear this mumbo jumbo, and it doesn't seem to be working.

It's because speed is not the only problem. It's not even a factor in most accidents. Until the GTC start doing their job there will be no effect on the road deaths. If we need more GTC then let's have them. Let's not waste the money on "safety cameras".

astraboy

What an absolute spastic. How about the government face up to their responsibilities and fix the roads, train the drivers, and put more cops on the roads, and remove VRT and VAT on safety features so people won't be screwed when they try and buy a safe car. Then they can stop trying to catch people on our well engineered, tolled(AKA double taxation) motorways for going marginally over the limit, and stop spouting this horse ****.

How does double points help? How about enforcing the law with common sense and discretion and stop trying to blame the motorist for the crappy system we have to use. Unfortunately, it would take some long term thinking by FF to do this, its far easier to blame all the evil speeders for all the country's ills.

E92

astraboy wrote: »

What an absolute spastic. How about the government face up to their responsibilities and fix the roads, train the drivers, and put more cops on the roads, and remove VRT and VAT on safety features so people won't be screwed when they try and buy a safe car. Then they can stop trying to catch people on our well engineered, tolled(AKA double taxation) motorways for going marginally over the limit, and stop spouting this horse ****.

How does double points help? How about enforcing the law with common sense and discretion and stop trying to blame the motorist for the crappy system we have to use. Unfortunately, it would take some long term thinking by FF to do this, its far easier to blame all the evil speeders for all the country's ills.

+1 million. You do realise that FF haven't a single original idea, apart from saying what they think will make them the most popular party in the country, right?

Couldn't bring myself to calling him a spastic in a public forum, but that's what I was thinking in my mind alright:D.

astraboy

Don't even get me started on FF! Still though, a fickle and in my view ignorant majority voted them in, we have to live with their decision. I a FG man myself, at least Enda is honest and does't take bribes or spout ****e at every opportunity. The government need to sit down and think out a proper and total road safety strategy, not this constant blabbering about "speed".

Stephen

+1 here too. I'm not a member of any party and I didn't vote for any fianna f*ckwits last summer. The constant stream of utter bull5hit emanating from Leinster House is staggering. The shower of bastards are off on 20 days of holidays for St Patrick's Day and easter too. :mad: :mad: :mad:

JHMEG

astraboy wrote: »

I a FG man myself, at least Enda is honest and does't take bribes or spout ****e at every opportunity.

Ara now hold on. I despise FF as much as the next man, but didn't FG propose giving the taxi drivers stacks of cash (ie bribes) after deregulation... something FF are now doing (€20 million)?

If that's not gombeen-ism I don't know what is.

javaboy

Stephen wrote: »

+1 here too. I'm not a member of any party and I didn't vote for any fianna f*ckwits last summer. The constant stream of utter bull5hit emanating from Leinster House is staggering. The shower of bastards are off on 20 days of holidays for St Patrick's Day and easter too. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Yeah I saw that but did you notice how the opposition gave out to them over but didn't actually push it to a vote. Enda will be enjoying his holliers too

E92

astraboy wrote: »

Don't even get me started on FF! Still though, a fickle and in my view ignorant majority voted them in, we have to live with their decision. I a FG man myself, at least Enda is honest and does't take bribes or spout ****e at every opportunity. The government need to sit down and think out a proper and total road safety strategy, not this constant blabbering about "speed".

As am I. Always have been, always will be(for pretty much the same reasons you said), though the fact that even the Blueshirts want speed cameras depresses me. How people voted them in again, well lets not go there. I hate the Greens a lot more though.

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

Ara now hold on. I despise FF as much as the next man, but didn't FG propose giving the taxi drivers stacks of cash (ie bribes) after deregulation... something FF are now doing (€20 million)?

If that's not gombeen-ism I don't know what is.

True but that was a different leader, different times etc. You'll note they ditched that idea at the last election.

@javaboy: putting the thing to vote would have made no difference. THey were going on holidays, whether the opposition wasted the time on it or not. This is all a storm in a teacup. Comes up every single year at this time, then goes away once Paddy's day is over and life moves on.

Higgsy

bruce wayne wrote: »

yea and whats the bets tha people doing 65 on the Stillorgan Road will be getting the 4 points and the lunitics on the backroads around Donegal doing 120 + wont get touched.....and eh....where are the most deaths occuring ?

Bruce,

I would ask you to be careful with your words, as they show some amount of ignorance. You are correct about the rate accidents in Donegal is quiet high but if the government would take some of the money they are spending on the Stillorgan Road and improve the roads in areas like Donegal we might have less accidents in this country and you would not be able to throw stupid comments out like that.

daRobot

astraboy wrote: »

What an absolute spastic. How about the government face up to their responsibilities and fix the roads, train the drivers, and put more cops on the roads, and remove VRT and VAT on safety features so people won't be screwed when they try and buy a safe car. Then they can stop trying to catch people on our well engineered, tolled(AKA double taxation) motorways for going marginally over the limit, and stop spouting this horse ****.

How does double points help? How about enforcing the law with common sense and discretion and stop trying to blame the motorist for the crappy system we have to use. Unfortunately, it would take some long term thinking by FF to do this, its far easier to blame all the evil speeders for all the country's ills.

Bingo.

We've a disgracefully bad road network with a serious lack of motorways to link up cities.Gross mismanagement of funds and simple projects going two-three times over the original budget.

Far too much exposure on poor roads, to Trucks travelling fast in the opposite direction with no barrier protection between vechiles, and that's a big killer these days.

Exposure to these type of roads and situations just shouldn't be happening these days.

Knee-Jerk reactions like putting privatised speed cameras everywhere aren't going to help, they're just deflecting the issue away from the fact that the shoddy infrastructure here is the biggest killer. And who's fault is that exactly?.... Well it's not the chap 20kmh over the limit on the motorway is it?

Fcuks sake, it's so frustrating to see. We're taxed so heavily on motoring and nothing constructive is being done with the money.

And putting Gay Byrne in as the Figurehead of Road safety instead of outsourcing a tried and tested expert on road safety....An absolute farce.

javaboy

E92 wrote: »

@javaboy: putting the thing to vote would have made no difference. THey were going on holidays, whether the opposition wasted the time on it or not. This is all a storm in a teacup. Comes up every single year at this time, then goes away once Paddy's day is over and life moves on.

I know but they could put it on record that the opposition are willing to do some work and the government want their jolliers. It mightn't be entirely true but it would sound better.

I know this Paddy's day thing comes up every year but the Dáil sits for a ridiculously low number of days each year.

Letter in today's Irish Times:

Madam, - It is revealed that it costs approximately €500,000 for Government ministers to leave Ireland for the St Patrick's Day celebrations. I feel this is excellent value.

I wonder what it would cost for them to go for good?

E92

A lot of people are moaning about FF and Gaybo etc.

Where were ye all last May when ye could have done something useful, and voted for FG/Lab, basically ABFF/PD?

Too late for this now. You reap what you sow.

But you doubt you'll make up for this by voting no to lisbon or against FF in the local elections, and then put that shower back into Government again at the next general election.

javaboy

E92 wrote: »

A lot of people are moaning about FF and Gaybo etc.

Where were ye all last May when ye could have done something useful, and voted for FG/Lab, basically ABFF/PD?

Too late for this now. You reap what you sow.

I rocked the vote! Voted in Dublin West and got Joanie B(Lab) and Leo V(FG) in the door. I also gave a pity vote to Roderic O'Gorman (GP) because I felt sorry for him. He was never gonna get in though. At least I can look at my constituency and say it's not Freaky Foot territory

On the Gaybo thing. I think people are a little harsh on Gaybo. He's alienated me with some of his comments about young male disease but he is only a figurehead and he is well intentioned. One thing you have to admit is that he has got road safety on the agenda.

bruce wayne

my comment was more of a reflection that most of the reported accidents from Donegal are of the single car type, accidents resulting in deaths where the car has colided with a wall or a tree at an early hour of the morning, I suspect caused by a number of factors including very poor roads, little or no lighting and not matching your speed to these conditions.

prospect

Funnily enough I voted FF 1 & 2, but I voted on a local level and the only two candidates worth anything were both FF.

But unfortunately, the dick responsible for the roads in my area is not FF....

MCMLXXXIII

So basically what I'm getting out of this is that it's better to speed during regular times, than on bank holidays. It's like Ireland is on sale! Come one, come all - 30% off all traffic points, as long as it's not a holiday! Rummage through muddy roads and fly through unsafe junctions! Don't worry if a sign is covered by foliage - you still won't get that point!



...sale ends next bank holiday.



Éire Wholesalers
(A wholly owned subsidiary of the Constitutional Monarchy of New South Wales)

Guy:Incognito

Seeing as everyone is usually so quick to say "look at the Uk (etc) , thats how we shoudl do it" when it's something they think is right, not sure if it's been said already but appareetly this i something they do in parts of Australia with much sucess.


People are also just focussing on the speeding but the fact is that for some reason people seem to use bank holidays as excuses to drink drive and/or speed resulting in killing themselves more often than regular weekends.

Oh and all the radio stations run (usually at the end of the news) a few words n slowing down ad taking care on bank holiday weekends, do to say nothign is said is just wrong. Either way, we're all adults, I dotn think we need Bertie coming out on the Friday of every bank holiday weekend telling us to be carefuil. If thats what it takes to get you to be responsible on the roads then you shoudlnt be driving.

JHMEG

The people get the government they deserve.

But this is a becoming too much of a nanny state, with the powers that be interefering with democracy itself.

You get extra points if you contest and fail. Is contesting an offence? It must be as we get punished for it.. how fair is that?

Latest thing I heard is that the HSE will not spend any money on "advertising" on Newstalk because they don't like the way one of their broadcasters is treating the Minister and her associates.
a) It's the taxpayer's fuppin money, not the HSE's
b) It's not advertising, it's information. Are Newstalk listeners not entitled to hear it
c) Once the state starts interfering with the press we're all screwed...

This country is going down the plughole.

Stephen

Totally off-topic: JHMEG that 1.8 road tax figure in your sig is actually €529 this year :eek:

MCMLXXXIII

Stekelly wrote: »

...People are also just focussing on the speeding but the fact is that for some reason people seem to use bank holidays as excuses to drink drive and/or speed resulting in killing themselves more often than regular weekends....

Well if they kill themselves, then the extra points won't matter, will they?

Guy:Incognito

MCMLXXXIII wrote: »

Well if they kill themselves, then the extra points won't matter, will they?

No but as you can no doubt see with a tiny bit of research on your part that they dotn always just kill themselves. Theres a lot of passengers/people in other cars, diing over bank holiday weekends because of others stupidity.

I have no sympathy and dont particularly give a crap about peoiple who kill themsleves doing stupid things, it's when they start involving others (which could well include me or my family) that I have a probem.

D_murph

JHMEG wrote: »

You get extra points if you contest and fail. Is contesting an offence? It must be as we get punished for it.. how fair is that?

ive always said this myself actually. if you were up for murder you can appeal without fear of getting a longer sentence but speeding must be a greater offense than that apparently :rolleyes:.

i wonder (as another poster here mentioned already) if you get double points on a bank holiday and contest, do you get 8 instead of 4?

its the same old BS again anyway. "speed is the biggest factor in road deaths" drivel. yawn..........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ :rolleyes:

javaboy

D_murph wrote: »

ive always said this myself actually. if you were up for murder you can appeal without fear of getting a longer sentence but speeding must be a greater offense than that apparently :rolleyes:.

i wonder (as another poster here mentioned already) if you get double points on a bank holiday and contest, do you get 8 instead of 4?

its the same old BS again anyway. "speed is the biggest factor in road deaths" drivel. yawn..........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ :rolleyes:

I read another poster saying it's not that they are being doubled but that they are temporarily not allowing the 'discount' in points applied if the charge is not contested. Effectively they're being doubled for most people though.

I wonder is there a constitutional issue with being officiallydiscouraged from contesting your case? I know there is a major precedent for many crimes that leniency is shown at sentencing if a guilty plea is entered but the automatic official 'discount' for immediately giving in just seems a little fishy.

Guy:Incognito

D_murph wrote: »

its the same old BS again anyway. "speed is the biggest factor in road deaths" drivel. yawn..........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ :rolleyes:

If they were just doubling it for speedign then thats what it'd be, but they arent. It's doubled for drink drivign etc aswell. The facts are there that deatsh go up on bank holiday weekends, slowign people down isnt goign to make that worse now is it.

meathstevie

Double on bank holidays...do I get half on Tuesday nights ??

Has anyone ever thought about the fact that there could be more inexperienced/incompetent drivers on the road during bankholidays as traffic volumes are significantly higher than on normal weekends ?

D_murph

Stekelly wrote: »

If they were just doubling it for speeding then thats what it'd be, but they arent. It's doubled for drink drivign etc as well. The facts are there that deaths go up on bank holiday weekends, slowing people down isnt goign to make that worse now is it.

[/quote]
Penalty points for speeding offences should be doubled on bank holiday weekends according to the Government chief whip, Tom Kitt.

The proposed policy mirrors existing legislation in New South Wales, Australia and would see the amount of penalty points received when speeding during bank holidays weekends double.

Mr Kitt said that under the proposals all other offences committed during bank holidays would not be doubled instead one extra penalty point would be added on to the offence.[/quote]



looks like double points just for speeding to me

i wasnt aware that drink driving was a penalty point offence. i always thought a ban was the penalty for that (and rightly so too)

i reckon that more drink driving checkpoints on BH weekends would go a longer way towards solving road deaths than yet another "blame speeding" campaign. they keep focusing on this too much and its obviously not working.

who would you rather be put off the road? a person that does 10kmh over the limits or that drives after 10 pints?

it cant be a coincidence that so many of these deaths are on back roads after pub hours and single car accidents IMO

ninty9er

Seriously off topic...sorry mods...but there's really no particular right place to expose these inacuracies.

Stephen wrote: »

Totally off-topic: JHMEG that 1.8 road tax figure in your sig is actually €529 this year :eek:

That's true

JHMEG wrote:

Beat VRT: move to the UK
An average 1.8L car uses 1300 litres of fuel a year (35mpg/10,000mls).
In Ireland this fuel costs €1560. In the UK this fuel costs €1807, or €247 more.
Road tax in Ireland is €484. Road tax in the UK is €166, or €318 less.
So don't start with the "yeah, but petrol is cheaper here" crap.. we're already burdened with VRT, Fianna Fail, a dire Health Service, tolls on every motorway...

Yes but it's actually €221 in the UK at today's exchange rate (171g/km) and will be €266 and €273 in each of the following consecutive years, before being reviewed again. And did I mention the UK government will be taking an extra 2p from you for every litre of fuel from October so make that €247 more in fuel about €285 more from the y/e 31/10/09.

Of course in a nation with over 30million cars on its roads can well afford these concessions...taking that as average will be €6.63bn this year, €7.98bn next year and €8.19bn in 2010 and the good chancellor told us yesterday that he'll be borrwing today's equivalent of €62.3bn over the next 3 years to balance his books....yes moveing to the UK is exactly what you should do....and did I mention they pay council tax and a congestion charge to get into London. Of course they're all equivalents at today's exchange. could be more, could be less, but they're big increases in the figures for road tax over 2 years.

every country, (of course they're only now getting a 20% PAYE rate) has it's crosses to bear, parents receive but just take off the rose tinted glasses before you shoot yourself in the foot and move to the country that's getting into trouble just as the rest of the world is working its way out. Child benefit is €60 per month less for the fist child in the UK, €95 less for the second, and €132 less for each subsequent child. that's €5028 less per year for a family of 4 kids (over 6) or €9428 less if all 4 are under 6.

Add it all together and count your luck stars....well maybe not. But it's not all it's cracked up to be living in the UK.

RANT OVER

Guy:Incognito

D_Murph wrote: »

Penalty points for speeding offences should be doubled on bank holiday weekends according to the Government chief whip, Tom Kitt.

The proposed policy mirrors existing legislation in New South Wales, Australia and would see the amount of penalty points received when speeding during bank holidays weekends double.

Mr Kitt said that under the proposals all other offences committed during bank holidays would not be doubled instead one extra penalty point would be added on to the offence.



looks like double points just for speeding to me

i wasnt aware that drink driving was a penalty point offence. i always thought a ban was the penalty for that (and rightly so too)

i reckon that more drink driving checkpoints on BH weekends would go a longer way towards solving road deaths than yet another "blame speeding" campaign. they keep focusing on this too much and its obviously not working.

who would you rather be put off the road? a person that does 10kmh over the limits or that drives after 10 pints?

it cant be a coincidence that so many of these deaths are on back roads after pub hours and single car accidents IMO

Not sure but I heard the story earlier on the radio and they said it was for more than jsut speeding, and the old "10kmph" over the limit doesnt wash. As discussed on here many times, your speedo over reads to varying degrees so if you are doing say 130 on a motorway, theres a good chance you speedo is showing anythign up to 145-150, so you knwo you are speeding and are actually under the impression you are speeding by much more. Plus you woudl have to do that 6 times or 3 on bh ( at which stage you've proabably been speeding 30-40 times becasue only the very unfortunate get caught every time they speed), to get banned, so you are well aware of what you are doing

As I mentioned already, they have this in part sof Australia and apparently it works well.

ninty9er

D_murph wrote: »

i wasnt aware that drink driving was a penalty point offence. i always thought a ban was the penalty for that (and rightly so too)

i reckon that more drink driving checkpoints on BH weekends would go a longer way towards solving road deaths than yet another "blame speeding" campaign. they keep focusing on this too much and its obviously not working.

It'd be no harm to put 6 points on a licence re-instated after a ban for drink driving, meaning they're already halfway to another ban for a few years, it's up to the driver to cop on.

Checkpoints...definitely. I've been brethalysed twice this year and I've no qualms about it....drink and don't drive or drive and don't drink. On of my friends was pulled over at a checkpoint, clear, but the guy in front was arrested. If everyone had an "I know someone who knows a fella that lost his licence....." then drink driving might actually see a real collapse. I mean, is it ACTUALLY that difficult to go out and have one person in the group not drink. We had 3 designated drivers last weekend (we only needed 2) by mistake, but that didn't mean the 3rd went on a booze cruise in town when he could get a lift (as it turns out I had to head home with an injury so he was needed anyway).

JHMEG

ninty9er wrote: »

And did I mention the UK government will be taking an extra 2p from you for every litre of fuel from October so make that €247 more in fuel about €285 more from the y/e 31/10/09.

No, and you didn't mention maybe €10,000 in VRT either that the Irish govt will rob you of.

ninty9er wrote:

and did I mention a congestion charge to get into London.

No, and you didn't mention a public transport system that's the envy of the world either. OTOH, the Irish govt has delivered 2 disjointed tram lines and ONE new city centre train station, the first in over 100 years.

ninty9er wrote:

But it's not all it's cracked up to be living in the UK.

A hardcore Fianna Failer wouldn't believe anything else.