Drumm says alcohol is biggest problem drug in Ireland

alleepally

Nothing specifically new I guess, but the bit that gets me is

"the largest drain on the health service"

According to the ads I see on the buses, 28% of A&E admissions are drink related. Scandalous.

and in response to this, there has been no increase in duty in alcohol in the last number of budgets.

I just don't get it...

People are quick enough to call for increases in duty on cigarettes because of the drain on the health service. Where are the calls for increases in duty on alcohol for similar reasons.

Monday December 10 2007

The head of the HSE says alcohol remains the biggest problem drug in Ireland, despite the recent headline-grabbing stories about cocaine-related deaths.

Speaking in Dublin today, Professor Brendan Drumm said society should not lose sight of the fact that alcohol is the biggest scourge of society and the largest drain on the health service.

He said alcohol abuse is a far greater cause of misery than illegal drugs, with huge numbers attending A&E units every night as a result of drink-related incidents.

rubadub

When taxing recreational drugs they have to look at similar prices for all recreational drugs. They are losing a potential fortune on other recreational drugs, some only relatively recently made illegal. They cannot increase smokes by €5 a pack since the illegal trade will grow. Dealers would import more smokes and sell on the street to a bigger market. Cocaine is now relatively cheap and some will turn to it rather than pay €7 for a vodka & 7up, it can work out cheaper for some. Alcohol is already a expensive recreational drug, they do not want people to go on others, even if they are less harmful. Most people smoking cannabis will drink less if they do the 2 together. E pills cost less than a pint each.

That and the fact is more people drink than smoke tobacco, so not the same outcry. And also the fact that mammy, daddy & bertie all drink, so it must be fine, it is legal isnt it? and they only ban drugs that are harmful right? Some dont even consider it a drug at all...

The alcohol related deaths do not sell papers. I know a few people who died from alcohol related car crashes, and one guy who did die from an overdose, and several who had stomachs pumped.

Cathmandooo

alleepally wrote: »

and in response to this, there has been no increase in duty in alcohol in the last number of budgets.

I just don't get it...
[/INDENT]

Increasing the price of alcohol isnt the solution here. What good will it do honestly? Hooligans will always be able to afford cheap beer and cider and continue to go out under the influence and cause people to go to A&E, whether it be drink driving related or just going out and picking on people on the streets with them ending up in hospital.

Personally I've never caused someone to end up in A&E, I've never been there due to alcohol either so why should I have to stump up more money, it just wont get anyone anywhere.

alienhead

and there's now ads on the radio telling us to go to the pub, see my thread in after hours, it's cool

alleepally

Cathooo wrote: »

Increasing the price of alcohol isnt the solution here. What good will it do honestly? Hooligans will always be able to afford cheap beer and cider and continue to go out under the influence and cause people to go to A&E, whether it be drink driving related or just going out and picking on people on the streets with them ending up in hospital.

Personally I've never caused someone to end up in A&E, I've never been there due to alcohol either so why should I have to stump up more money, it just wont get anyone anywhere.

Increase in duty might curtail the binge drinking which is a big part of the problem we have in our culture. It's all very well to say that you personally haven't been in a&e due to alcohol, it's not about any individual or about a&e in particular. It's the overall effect on the health service - and that encompasses a wide variety of areas.

alleepally

alienhead wrote: »

and there's now ads on the radio telling us to go to the pub, see my thread in after hours, it's cool

those ads have been out a long time. What's so cool - the thread, the ads?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

it won't have any effect though, we already spend far more on alcohol than most other europeans countries and we still match them, or even beat them on consumption.

Dave!

Therefore, let's actually the ADDRESS the problem.......... of.........COKE!

Cathmandooo

alleepally wrote: »

Increase in duty might curtail the binge drinking which is a big part of the problem we have in our culture. It's all very well to say that you personally haven't been in a&e due to alcohol, it's not about any individual or about a&e in particular. It's the overall effect on the health service - and that encompasses a wide variety of areas.

I was just using myself as an example, there are thousands like me, we are ripped off enough with alcohol as it is. Upping the duty on it will still do no good to the HSE. It'll only line the pockets of the powers that be in our country.

B0X

Mordeth wrote: »

it won't have any effect though, we already spend far more on alcohol than most other europeans countries and we still match them, or even beat them on consumption.

I think we are second in the world for beer consumption, losing to the Czechs.

Considering we pay nearly twice the price then most european countrys for a pint, its a culture problem and not a price issue.

I know i would still buy beer if it was 12 euro for a 6 pack (yes cheap beer), my friends would do the same. Its been proven over and over with previous tax increases that it doesnt work.

There is a hype about alcohol in the teenage years, thats where its a problem, you'd only ever buy alcohol to get as drunk as you could, as opposed to having a beer with a meal etc, which as i believe is quite common on the mainland (dont quote me though... ; )

alleepally

Mordeth wrote: »

it won't have any effect though, we already spend far more on alcohol than most other europeans countries and we still match them, or even beat them on consumption.

We're 3rd in the world in terms of Litres per Adult I think

alienhead

alleepally wrote: »

those ads have been out a long time. What's so cool - the thread, the ads?

well not the ads

Lands Leaving

alleepally wrote: »

We're 3rd in the world in terms of Litres per Adult I think

With a bit of work we could be world champions at something! lets make up for the football and rugby teams with some hard drinking.

Together we can achieve anything.

DublinWriter

alleepally wrote: »

and in response to this, there has been no increase in duty in alcohol in the last number of budgets.

The old tax and ban approach is pretty dumb and unimaginative.

It can also rebound in the face of a government. For example, the UK government put the cost of cigarettes up so much in the past three years that now there's a huge business in the North of England in smuggling cigs in from Eastern Europe.

I think a greater programme of education is needed. Either that, or we go down the road that Sweden did and nationalise all off-licenses.

I'm also of the opinion that our national consumption of alcohol has greatly increased since the smoking ban in 2003, but that's never an argument that's popular with with PC brigade.

Dave!

DublinWriter wrote: »

The old tax and ban approach is pretty dumb and unimaginative.

It can also rebound in the face of a government. For example, the UK government put the cost of cigarettes up so much in the past three years that now there's a huge business in the North of England in smuggling cigs in from Eastern Europe.

I think a greater programme of education is needed. Either that, or we go down the road that Sweden did and nationalise all off-licenses.

I'm also of the opinion that our national consumption of alcohol has greatly increased since the smoking ban in 2003, but that's never an argument that's popular with with PC brigade.

I'm not sure what further "education" you feel is necessary... Can you give an example? There was no shortage of education when I was in school. Besides, check out any university and you'll see no shortage of students getting p*ssed as a newt many nights a week. And they're supposedly the l33t in society !!!

DublinWriter

DaveMcG wrote: »

I'm not sure what further "education" you feel is necessary... Can you give an example?

Sure.

I don't know what age you are, but I grew up in the 'Dirty Dublin' of the 1970's.

The city centre was basically an open-air litter bin.

If you don't believe me and how bad the situation was, get your hands on a copy of Billy Connonly's 'Big Bannana Feet' vid/dvd. There's a five-minute scene in it where Billy is walking up O'Connell St. in 1974.

In 1982, Dublin Corporation launched a huge-campaign to stop people littering. The campaign was basically launched at 10-12 year olds in primary schools, and consisted of a film (yes, get the projector out!) featuring a fictional band from Dublin traveling about and warning everyone about the dangers of litter. (now you know where Roddy Doyle got the idea!)

This campaign also included print media, flyers, posters, and arm bands for designated litter wardens within the school and community.

To this day, anyone I meet in Dublin in my own particular age range (35-38) wouldn't dream of ever throwing litter on the street. To paraphrase the Jesuits, we were 'got young' and the message drummed into us for the rest of our lives.

We weren't preached at. We weren't fined. We weren't taxed. We were shown the ways we were damaging our community and given the means to tackle the problem for ourselves. Hey-feckin-presto, it worked.

Statso

The Irish have a problem with drink? Well i never!

Lands Leaving

Statso wrote: »

The Irish have a problem with drink? Well i never!

Bah, drink has a problem with us, we keep trying to get rid of it, you know, for the safety of others and political correctness and all that crap, and it retaliates by giving us hangovers then calling in reinforcements.

A crafty foe, but we will prevail! - To the pub!

DublinWriter

DublinWriter wrote: »

Sure.

I don't know what age you are, but I grew up in the 'Dirty Dublin' of the 1970's.

The city centre was basically an open-air litter bin.

If you don't believe me and how bad the situation was, get your hands on a copy of Billy Connonly's 'Big Bannana Feet' vid/dvd. There's a five-minute scene in it where Billy is walking up O'Connell St. in 1974.

In 1982, Dublin Corporation launched a huge-campaign to stop people littering. The campaign was basically launched at 10-12 year olds in primary schools, and consisted of a film (yes, get the projector out!) featuring a fictional band from Dublin traveling about and warning everyone about the dangers of litter. (now you know where Roddy Doyle got the idea!)

This campaign also included print media, flyers, posters, and arm bands for designated litter wardens within the school and community.

To this day, anyone I meet in Dublin in my own particular age range (35-38) wouldn't dream of ever throwing litter on the street. To paraphrase the Jesuits, we were 'got young' and the message drummed into us for the rest of our lives.

We weren't preached at. We weren't fined. We weren't taxed. We were shown the ways we were damaging our community and given the means to tackle the problem for ourselves. Hey-feckin-presto, it worked.

I remember that, although I'm a bit younger than you. We had to design posters to stop people littering 'Dirty Dublin'.
I wouldn't dream of dropping litter, and neither would any of my friends.

Likewise, I'm old enough to remember the terrifying Aids advert (it was terrifying when you were a child).

I think a large part of education comes from home too though. My parents would have given me an earful if I'd thrown rubbish on the ground. T'was the way I was brought up.

As for alcohol, it's an attitude to it that will take a couple of generations to work itself out.

mikemac

"People should have a beer with their pizza instead of a pizza with their beer"

I think Michael McDowell said that.
It's a brilliant quote if you can see the real meaning! Very clever word play. That's what barristers can do I suppose

Irish consumption is very high no question but also the problem is the way it's consumed.
Your typical Irish person will not drink Monday to Thursday and then go binge drinking at the weekend.
Whereas on the continent people will drink most days, but it's like 2-3 glasses of wine with dinner.

And the end of the week, the difference in amount consumed isn't huge but one nation drinks sensibly and enjoys it and the other just binge drinks

micmclo

micmclo wrote: »

And the end of the week, the difference in amount consumed isn't huge but one nation drinks sensibly and enjoys it and the other just binge drinks

That's what I meant about the 'attitude' to alcohol in Ireland, you just put it better than I did!
Let's face it, we can't have an occasion without loads of drink involved - christenings, communions, birthdays, weddings, funerals, matches, Christmas...

kowloon

I haven't been able to drink much over the last two years due to my health.
Being sober is a miserable experience and i wouldn't recommend it to anyone who wants to have a good time in this country.

irlirishkev

alleepally wrote: »

According to the ads I see on the buses, 28% of A&E admissions are drink related. Scandalous.

So 72% of admissions are non-alchohol related.. I like those odds!
Off to the pub with me!

leninbenjamin

on the tax issue: anyone who thinks the Government are taxing us because they want to decrease consumption are deluding themselves. It's just easy money for the coffers.

Dyr

alleepally wrote: »

Nothing specifically new I guess, but the bit that gets me is

"the largest drain on the health service"

According to the ads I see on the buses, 28% of A&E admissions are drink related. Scandalous.

Thats means over 70% per cent of people who attend A&E are stone cold sober. So who's the real problem here buddy? Not the boozehounds :mad:


Incidentally the actual figure was 28% who were admitted had been drinking, big difference between that and drink related admissions.

leninbenjamin

Bambi wrote: »

Incidentally the actual figure was 28% who were admitted had been drinking, big difference between that and drink related admissions.

yeah I'm one of those misleading figures. I was drinking but it was the recurrence of an old knee injury that i was admitted for, had nothing to do with the drink itself.

there's lies, damned lies and statistics.

having said that though when i did make my way in the amount of alcohol related admissions was phenomenal. practically all the beds were taken by young ones who were in to get their stomachs pumped. i'd say the actual figure isn't far off that.

Terry

Bambi wrote: »

Thats means over 70% per cent of people who attend A&E are stone cold sober. So who's the real problem here buddy? Not the boozehounds :mad:


Incidentally the actual figure was 28% who were admitted had been drinking, big difference between that and drink related admissions.

Yep.

Factor in innocent people being attacked/ knocked down etc. on their way home from the pub and that figure drops a bit.

Having alcohol in your system does not mean anything in those cases.

Also, regarding it being the biggest problem drug; of course it is. It's the most widely used.

That guy should have been a fúcking rocket scientist.

hopalong85

Terry wrote: »

Yep.

Factor in innocent people being attacked/ knocked down etc. on their way home from the pub and that figure drops a bit.

Having alcohol in your system does not mean anything in those cases.

Also, regarding it being the biggest problem drug; of course it is. It's the most widely used.

That guy should have been a fúcking rocket scientist.

It's pretty likely that most people attacked on the way home from the pub are attacked by people under the influence of alcohol. If that's the case then they're basically in the A&E room as a result of alcohol abuse.

Terry

That may be the case, but they are not there as a result of having been drinking alcohol themselves.

Cathooo

Cathooo wrote: »

Hooligans will always be able to afford cheap beer and cider and continue to go out under the influence and cause people to go to A&E, whether it be drink driving related or just going out and picking on people on the streets with them ending up in hospital.

From my own anecdotal expierence it isnt hooligans clogging up the AandE.
4 of my old enough to know better female professional friends have had to brought to hospital in the last 6 months. For accidents resulting from drunken madness/bravado or drinking to the point where they passed out.
All were out drinking the next day, and one was laughing at the weekend because an alcohol awarenss course she did suggested that was a sign of alcoholism. I kid you not.

Recently was in AandE at five on a Sunday morning, 7 women and 1 teenage boy there for drink related accidents, not rows.
One 40ish year old woman had drunk herself into such a stupor that they brought her up to the ward.
She couldn't be risen for medical attention and the doctor just didn't want to know. She woke up to scoff her breakfast and then again at lunch time her daughter came to pick her up. The daughter scoffed the "free" meal and the two absconded without telling anyone.

constitutionus

i just laugh at the idea of increasing taxes stopping anyone drinking nowadays. after all its already at the stage where its cheaper to fly to hungary, get slaughtered drunk, and fly home than eat out in an irish restaurant. 150 euro would have you sorted.

wil

Terry wrote: »

Yep.
.....snippy>
That guy should have been a fúcking rocket scientist.

Or at least a brain surgeon, but no hes a Paediatric Gastroenterologist (burps kids?)

There was a time when people had the decency to fall down and sleep when they had imbibed a little too much rather than bother A&E. Now with so much sugar and crap and crimson cow they dont have the intelligence to attain the recovery position until well past the point of catatonia and immediate medical intervention.
Add a few drugs in to the mix and they spend an indecently unhealthy preponderance to maintaining a vertical disposition.

Bring back falling over. (and a good nights rest in a ditch*)
*Doctors recommendation

DublinWriter

DublinWriter wrote: »

Sure.

I don't know what age you are, but I grew up in the 'Dirty Dublin' of the 1970's.

The city centre was basically an open-air litter bin.

If you don't believe me and how bad the situation was, get your hands on a copy of Billy Connonly's 'Big Bannana Feet' vid/dvd. There's a five-minute scene in it where Billy is walking up O'Connell St. in 1974.

In 1982, Dublin Corporation launched a huge-campaign to stop people littering. The campaign was basically launched at 10-12 year olds in primary schools, and consisted of a film (yes, get the projector out!) featuring a fictional band from Dublin traveling about and warning everyone about the dangers of litter. (now you know where Roddy Doyle got the idea!)

This campaign also included print media, flyers, posters, and arm bands for designated litter wardens within the school and community.

To this day, anyone I meet in Dublin in my own particular age range (35-38) wouldn't dream of ever throwing litter on the street. To paraphrase the Jesuits, we were 'got young' and the message drummed into us for the rest of our lives.

We weren't preached at. We weren't fined. We weren't taxed. We were shown the ways we were damaging our community and given the means to tackle the problem for ourselves. Hey-feckin-presto, it worked.

Yes but on comparision to drink littering is a fairly minor form of social entertainment in Ireland.

Terry

Meh.
Isn't there a budget coming up?
He's just looking for a rise and trying to justify his job.

gurramok

Regarding the 'tax the drink sky high' argument, the majority should not be penalised because of the actions of a minority who binge drink and cause the problems.

Another factor to cut down violence, open the pubs 24/7 and you won't have crowds of boisterous people at same times on your main street. Then again, can't see it happening here, politicians havent a clue.

Think there was an education scheme aimed at teenagers somewhere in US/Canada where it was proved that if you get the message through about alcohol abuse at a certain teenage age range, they go on into their 20's drinking responsibly. (I'm sure some google wizzard will dig up this )
And it ain't a co-incidence that they have the lowest alcohol related problems nationally over there.

Dave!

gurramok, the Irish gvmt do not have the imagination to consider 24/7 drinking licences.