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Meeting at Abbeyleix.

  • 26-11-2007 12:51pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32


    Any news from the meeting yesterday. Got put out of action bitten in the
    arse by this winter sicko bug that's doing the rounds. Better I did not make
    it down after all or the place might have gotten cleared early!;)


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«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 rrpc
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    Now I understand why you call yourself 'Repeating Henry' :D:D:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 Our man in Havana
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    What meeting was this?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 126 MortgageMan
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    Good meeting.

    Calender of events for next year looks very good. A lot of interesting competitions ahead.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
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    The NASRC AGM Bond.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 sidneyreilly
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    Good meeting.

    Calender of events for next year looks very good. A lot of interesting competitions ahead.

    Indeed, static target shotgun:)

    http://www.nasrc.ie/Calendar%202008.htm


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32 Repeating Henry


    I think Sidney & Mort must have caught this same run to the toilet bug and
    missed what got unloaded from the floor at this meeting, from what I have heard just now some guy from Kerry called O' Brien put himself up for the top job and made complete show of himself and to top it off Sidney you missed the finally, something of a jaw dropper that will shake things up in the shooting world, get back when I get all the facts.:eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
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    /me baits breath...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 sidneyreilly
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    some guy from Kerry called O' Brien put himself up for the top job and made complete show of himself .:eek:

    And it wouldnt be first time or indeed will it be the last:D

    and to top it off Sidney you missed the finally, something of a jaw dropper that will shake things up in the shooting world, get back when I get all the facts

    I would be careful of posting that one Henry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
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    I would be careful of posting that one Henry.
    Yeah, anyone posting that one should really be posting a copy of the letter involved as well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 sidneyreilly
    ✭✭✭


    Sparks wrote: »
    Yeah, anyone posting that one should really be posting a copy of the letter involved as well.

    I was considering DeVores sticky..


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
    ✭✭✭✭


    The reason for supporting documentation is DeVore's sticky - there being a difference between allegations and proven, public domain facts, and all that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32 Repeating Henry


    Like I said, anyone posting that should have a scanned copy of the letter...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 102 Kimber
    ✭✭


    Tricky one that. Your right Sparks.

    Now organisations in the states get to see our washing,
    Not saying that our washing is in anyway stained.
    But none the less. MMMmmmmm:o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
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    My view tends to be that if you have dirty washing, you wash it Kimber, and that the washing is more important than the audience. But you also have to keep the law in mind at the same time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 sidneyreilly
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    Like I said, anyone posting that should have a scanned copy of the letter...

    Had a feeling that would happen:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 102 Kimber
    ✭✭


    Agreed Sparks

    But back to the washing: I love washing. I really do.
    Is it also important that you use the right machine in getting your whites whiter and that that washing powder is off the right balance and constitution

    And if I was a washing machine. I would make sure that my internal workings were free of debry. But if I found some of my internal workings were in need of service. I would open my instruction booklet and view section 1 & 16 and troubleshoot my problem.

    Now a good modern washing machine will have at least a years warranty till it has to be renewed.
    So get the troubleshooting index out. Always the last page of a manual.
    And wash those stains out. If the stains dont go. Use Vanish the real stain remover. Available at most Retail Outlets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
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    I think you broke the analogy Kimber!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 102 Kimber
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    I love washing. That is it,

    Freud would say, "Sometimes a cake is just a cake",

    Now analogies are Copi's theories,

    But can a guy be in touch with his feminine side.....Jeeezzzz


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32 Repeating Henry


    I got a call to say a scanned copy of the letter was available to view last
    night on full view did anyone have a look! Where has it gone or are legal
    reasons holding back what was on the table at Abbeyleix in a public form!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 rrpc
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    The early bird catches the worm Henry :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
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    There's a big difference between a scanned copy of a written, signed letter and a scanned copy of a printed-out email Henry...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32 Repeating Henry


    Recent high profile legal cases have used e-mail as traceable
    evidence used in court. IF hand written it has to be then so be it.

    Contact the NASRC to confirm.

    Contact John Howard NRA USA.
    National Rifle Association
    of America. NRA National Instructor Trainer.
    11250 Waples Mill RD
    Fairfax, VA 22030 703.267.1423

    E-mail JHoward@nrahq.org RE: DK RSO COURSES.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32 Bellerophon


    This is one of those awfull threads that get inflicted on the boards from time to time. It is a put up job designed to build on the bad mannered behaviour allowed by the NASRC at the meeting referred to. It is clear that the NASRC committee had their own reasons for allowing the diatribe which should have been stopped in the interests of fairness and justice as the targetted individual was not at the meeting to defend himself. The venom being poured forth onto the individual at the receiving end of this "storm in a teacup" leaves me wondering about the sanity and motivation of the pourers!
    This is the third attempt they have made to discredit their target on this board and I wonder why the mods allow it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
    ✭✭✭✭


    It's good to know we have the slayer of the Chimera on hand to look after boards from this vile wickedness...
    ...though if you know the end to the myth, you might not choose such an alias to post with...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32 Bellerophon


    Very good Sparks, nice to see a bit of erudition. It was hubris resulting from killing the chimera that led to the bee sting and , as the chimera is still alive, there is not yet cause for any hubris. How about using that erudition along with good judgement to keep boards from being a platform for spiteful malcontents?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Rew
    Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Everyone is a spiteful malcontent depending on your point of view ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
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    Not a bee sting, it was a fly sent by Zeus that bit Pegasus and caused Bellerophon to be thrown from his mount. The fly was sent because of Bellerophon's arrogance in thinking he could use Pegasus to fly to Mount Olympus after dispatching the Chimera with lead.

    As to keeping boards free of spiteful malcontents, I find that that's a term whose definition is supremely subjective. Instead, I find keeping the noise level down and trying to keep the number of libel lawsuit threats to a minimum is a more useful approach.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32 Bellerophon


    If you go back to the original Greek Sparks, you will see that the word used for the thing that stung Pegasus was "insect" so who knows?
    Have you ever seen such a venemous campaign before Sparks or are your own personal views on this matter getting in the way of your judgement?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 Rovi
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    What calibre for Chimeras, and is there an open season?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32 Bellerophon


    Ah Rovi, the voice of reason at last, Chimera are best slain with the lance of truth.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
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    If you go back to the original Greek Sparks, you will see that the word used for the thing that stung Pegasus was "insect" so who knows?
    Anyone who's ever seen a horsefly generally.
    Have you ever seen such a venemous campaign before Sparks
    I've gotten two or three threats of libel action (sometimes on things which, humourously, are specifically exempt from libel law) myself, as well as a lot of rather... negative portrayal, so frankly, yes, I've had a duck's eye view of the shotgun blast. I find citing the facts is sufficient defence for anyone whose opinion I would care about.
    are your owns personal views on this matter getting in the way of your judgement?
    I'm striving to ensure that my views on the matter are independent from my views of what constitutes proof. And if I slip, there are three others watching as well. And others further up the chain watching all of us too. So I think we're okay...

    Rovi wrote: »
    What calibre for Chimeras, and is there an open season?
    Solid block of lead, the bigger the better, and it's open season all year round. Avoid the fire-breathing end if possible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 Sikamick
    ✭✭✭


    Very good Sparks, nice to see a bit of erudition. It was hubris resulting from killing the chimera that led to the bee sting and , as the chimera is still alive, there is not yet cause for any hubris. How about using that erudition along with good judgement to keep boards from being a platform for spiteful malcontents?


    Read it again Bellerophon

    Iobates was impressed by Bellerophon's superhuman courage and married him to his daughter. After a time of prosperity, Bellerophon defied the gods by trying to ride Pegasus up to Olympus, but, thrown to the earth by the horse, he wandered in misery until he died.

    Sikamick


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32 Bellerophon


    A little wiki goes a long way! I would have thought you would concentrate more on the chimera than on pegasus.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 314 Kryten
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    Probably a seperate forum for Greek Mythology, Please stay on topic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 381 les45
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    I gather that there was a presentation on Insurances and a possible new insurance option for next year , perhaps someone that was at the meeting might enlighten us on this topic ! also I gather a very interesting calander of events are planned for next year , any info on this ?

    John


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 144 Croppy Boy
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    Go to www.nasrc.ie/index.htm you'll find the calender there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 126 MortgageMan
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    Well done Croppy & Les back to the original thread about the meeting and the events covered for shooting sports. The children who just like to wind each other up and play he said I said, should open another thread and thrill each other with their fantastic word play and knowledge of greek myth's. :rolleyes:

    I enjoy some the threads here that actually cover my sport and offer some advice and help, long may they continue. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32 Repeating Henry


    The Ballad of Abbeyleix. (Jonny Cash Medley)

    Abbeyleix manor hotel I hate every bit of you.

    You hurt me.... hurt me... through and through
    After all.... the struggle and the toil... with pain
    A good man.. he needs... time... to work it out
    But in the end.... its up... to you
    I crossed the line... I crossed the line.

    Abbeyleix manor hotel I hate every bit of you
    you hurt me... hurt me through and through

    The man in black... he comes calling into town
    his men are standing..... stright true... and tall
    he lays his cards down on the table... for... inspect..ion
    And says
    You will burn baby burn.... your ass is on fire..er
    You will burn baby burn.....your in the ring of fire

    Abbeyleix manor hotel I hate every bit of you
    you hurt me.....hurt me through and through

    Now the NRA.......are .... in a... hurry game
    by the time.. this..... letter.... will arraive
    I know... I must... have.. done.. some wrong
    and now...... the time.... for me.. has come

    I will burn baby burn......my ass is on fire.er
    I will burn baby burn......your in the ring of fire.

    Abbeyleix manor hotel I hate every bit of you
    You hurt me... hurt me through and through

    The chairman of the.. NASRC... he found me guilty
    My friends.......they just dont want to know
    Kerry's gold.. turned out to be..... fools gold... only
    his vote...... to be chairman..... could not save the day
    He tried..... to get me... in the .....back door.
    he slipped...... and broke... the... bloody.. key
    I did not turn up... because....I did not want to look... silly
    Even if they invited.. me.... many times... before.
    I now must find... a cover..er story.... smoke and daggers... the only way

    It's battle ground..... to be fought... out.. on.... boards
    Bellerophon against all ..... his... en..emies thats the way it is
    Sika Mick and Sparks.....used to be my friends....a.very.. long time ago
    Now... this battle...has .....no... end

    And its burn baby burn......my ass is on fire.er ( pure mule that is)
    And its burn baby burn......your in the ring of fire
    And its burn baby burn......my ass is getting hotter
    And its burn baby burn......till the end of time
    Repeat...

    (SLOWLY ) ABBEYLEIX HOTEL.....I HATE...............EVERY BIT OF YOU!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32 Bellerophon


    It was Sparks who started the Classic digression by demonstrating his erudition.This was a good thing. A little culture is especially good for those readers of this board who are only interested in rabbit's guts or bragging about the size of their barrell or it's calibre.
    I suspect that Mortgage man has not realised that what is at the heart of this thread is the entire future direction of the shooting sports in Ireland.The disgracefull performance by some individuals at the NASRC Agm is only a symptom of a much deeper malaise. The fact that the organisers, i.e. the committee of the NASRC not only allowed it to happen but also seemed to have been involved before hand with the "research". It is no co-incidence that there is a big overlap between the NASRC and SSAI committees and that the latter is looking for ways to cover up the gaffe they made when they decided to do away with FLAG. It looks like the cosy cartel at the top of rifle shooting have been in power for too long and it has gone to their heads. Perhaps it is time for change of management. To get back to the hubris and the bee sting, it looks like a sting is needed to get them off their high horse.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
    ✭✭✭✭


    I think you can relax a little Bellerophon. The future of shooting sports in Ireland - and I've learnt this the hard way, through a lot of fretting over this exact subject over the past decade or more - is not dependant on the administration of shooting. The SSAI is largely irrelevant to the "rank-and-file" shooting in Ireland. Either shooters will shoot or they won't, and that's the primary decider of the fate of the shooting sports in this country.

    Next down the list in order of importance are the cracked hoors who put enormous amounts of time and money and effort into running matches and ranges and clubs. Things like legislation and grants and so forth do have some influence on these things, but to be honest, not that much. NGBs are further down the list again, and umbrella groups like the NRPAI/SSAI are _way_ down the list again after that.

    So rows like this don't actually damage things very much, except when they take time away from shooters and organisers, because you can only do so many things, and if you put all your time into running matches and maintaining national rankings and classification lists and shooting, you get a healthy sport; if you put all your effort and time into court cases and the like, you generally get squat as a result unless you're in dire straits indeed - and frankly, we've never been in dire straits as a result of legislation up until the CJA 2006 amended the firearms acts and directly made work for organisers and upped the costs to shooters.

    As to the "cosy cartel at the top", I know most of the people involved here, and the specifics of the arguments; and frankly, saying they've been in power too long is a bit funny because only a while back, the argument was that they didn't have enough experience to do the job :D

    The facts are that there's been a lot of bad blood building up over the past decade or so against some people in the admin side of the sport because of the things they chose to do and how they chose to do them and it's looking like some of that is now being bled out on the carpet. Well, much as my personal history is tied up in this, I say don't make a meal of it - get it over and done with as fast as is practical and get back to shooting and organising.

    NGBs spending time lobbying for sports capital grants and carding grants and maintaining national rankings and organising the national teams for international events and hosting international events and running domestic events; that's good. Umbrella bodies having arguments about who gets to sit at a table that's largely looking like a talking shop; that's just irrelevant to be honest, no matter how much schadenfreude is involved.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32 Bellerophon


    Sparks wrote: »



    I say don't make a meal of it - get it over and done with as fast as is practical and get back to shooting and organising.

    You are right is what you say Sparks, the politics of the sport mainly exist as a nuisance for most shooters which is why most of them are not bothered about who sits on which committee or what they do as long as it does not affect the shooting. This is OK for a while, which usually results in no one going forward for positions on committees and the sitting crowd being returned by default. This is also OK for a while. But, gradually, as we have seen, the favours and the funding seem to go in the direction of the clubs or disciplines represented by these individuals who eventually become disconnected from the will of the great mass of shooters and hence lose the run of themselves. This is what has happened to the NASRC/SSAI.
    I take it then that you will support the putsch?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 314 Kryten
    ✭✭


    If the committee of the NASRC were voted back in at the meeting by a majority, hey thats democracy in action. I heard there were quite a few people there, lot of voters.
    Secondly, I remember a previous NASRC Meeting where they were looking for people to step forward to go on the committee. "crowd takes a step back and the unwary few caught to do the job".
    Thirdly, It is very easy to critisize the existing committee and slate them for their mistakes, but more difficult to offer some constructive solutions and help them.
    I am not saying that they are perfect or fantastic and I dont agree with some recent decisions, but I firmly believe they want to better the sport.

    ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
    ✭✭✭✭


    Bellerophon, I'm currently bemused by the arguments I'm hearing against the SSAI - because they're being expounded by the same people who poo-poo'd those same arguements when I put them forward as protests at the way the NRPAI was mangled into the SSAI at an AGM a few years ago. It would seem to me personally that it's like watching someone get hit in the head by the boomerang that they themselves threw, and then watching them complain that the boomerang wasn't meant to do that...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 118 Gerri
    ✭✭


    Sparks wrote: »
    I think you can relax a little Bellerophon. The future of shooting sports in Ireland - and I've learnt this the hard way, through a lot of fretting over this exact subject over the past decade or more - is not dependant on the administration of shooting. The SSAI is largely irrelevant to the "rank-and-file" shooting in Ireland. Either shooters will shoot or they won't, and that's the primary decider of the fate of the shooting sports in this country.

    Next down the list in order of importance are the cracked hoors who put enormous amounts of time and money and effort into running matches and ranges and clubs. Things like legislation and grants and so forth do have some influence on these things, but to be honest, not that much. NGBs are further down the list again, and umbrella groups like the NRPAI/SSAI are _way_ down the list again after that.

    So rows like this don't actually damage things very much, except when they take time away from shooters and organisers, because you can only do so many things, and if you put all your time into running matches and maintaining national rankings and classification lists and shooting, you get a healthy sport; if you put all your effort and time into court cases and the like, you generally get squat as a result unless you're in dire straits indeed - and frankly, we've never been in dire straits as a result of legislation up until the CJA 2006 amended the firearms acts and directly made work for organisers and upped the costs to shooters.

    As to the "cosy cartel at the top", I know most of the people involved here, and the specifics of the arguments; and frankly, saying they've been in power too long is a bit funny because only a while back, the argument was that they didn't have enough experience to do the job :D

    The facts are that there's been a lot of bad blood building up over the past decade or so against some people in the admin side of the sport because of the things they chose to do and how they chose to do them and it's looking like some of that is now being bled out on the carpet. Well, much as my personal history is tied up in this, I say don't make a meal of it - get it over and done with as fast as is practical and get back to shooting and organising.

    NGBs spending time lobbying for sports capital grants and carding grants and maintaining national rankings and organising the national teams for international events and hosting international events and running domestic events; that's good. Umbrella bodies having arguments about who gets to sit at a table that's largely looking like a talking shop; that's just irrelevant to be honest, no matter how much schadenfreude is involved.



    Thought the meeting in Abbeyleix and the issues was about a bit more than who sits at a table, unless my sources are wrong. Was there some difficulty with clubs not being paid up members but being allowed vote for the committee?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32 Bellerophon


    You are making my points for me, thankyou Kryten, Of course they want to improve the sport but the problem is how they perceive the improvements should be made. Sparks, I agree with you. Having watched some of the debate over the last year or two I would say that you were right but for the wrong reasons. Perhaps if you had been less personal and less strident about it, you may have got more support. But, come on now, declare for the putsch and you could be the new PRO.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32 Bellerophon


    Gerri wrote: »
    Thought the meeting in Abbeyleix and the issues was about a bit more than who sits at a table, unless my sources are wrong. Was there some difficulty with clubs not being paid up members but being allowed vote for the committee?

    There were fundamental issues of non compliance with the NASRC constitution raised but they were not listened to by the committee. In fact, the entire AGM was not in compliance with the constitution as proper notice was not given.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
    ✭✭✭✭


    Gerri wrote: »
    Thought the meeting in Abbeyleix and the issues was about a bit more than who sits at a table, unless my sources are wrong. Was there some difficulty with clubs not being paid up members but being allowed vote for the committee?
    I'd not heard of the latter; but I don't think I would have had it not been for the former. And frankly, the latter sounds far less worrysome than the abuse of voting rights that was orchestrated at the NRPAI-to-SSAI AGM in '04.

    Frankly, I think that this whole mess - and the fifty other messes we see each year - shows that we're a lot closer to the FAI than to the GAA in terms of organisation at the moment. Too many ould fellas who prefer getting into a scrap at the committee table (and away from it, in the pub and in quiet conversations elsewhere) than actually shooting.

    That said, I saw up close and personal what it was like ten years ago and I have to say we've made progress in that time. It's been a lot like pulling teeth from the wrong end of the alimentary canal, but it's been progress nonetheless.

    Me, however, I'd rather be on the range.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
    ✭✭✭✭


    Sparks, I agree with you. Having watched some of the debate over the last year or two I would say that you were right but for the wrong reasons. Perhaps if you had been less personal and less strident about it, you may have got more support.
    If the support was not forthcoming purely for personal reasons Bellerophon, then those not giving it were not worth seeking support from in the first place. Either shooting comes first or your ego comes first when you're on a committee, and if it's the latter, the former will suffer.
    But, come on now, declare for the putsch and you could be the new PRO.
    Why? I've no interest in gallery rifle or the other NASRC disciplines, but from what I hear, they're more than healthy enough and there aren't any real problems in the sport, just in the personalities on all sides of the divides.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 Sparks
    ✭✭✭✭


    There were fundamental issues of non compliance with the NASRC constitution raised but they were not listened to by the committee. In fact, the entire AGM was not in compliance with the constitution as proper notice was not given.
    So when are you calling for the SSAI to be denounced as a fraudulently constituted body and the NRPAI reinstated?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 Guillotine


    Thought the meeting in Abbeyleix and the issues was about a bit more than who sits at a table, unless my sources are wrong. Was there some difficulty with clubs not being paid up members but being allowed vote for the committee?


    NOTE THE UNPAID UP MEMBERS WERE DK SUPPORTERS. IF YOU HAD ATTENDED THE MEETING YOU COULD HAVE HAD A VOTE AS WELL.


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