Major Disruption of Dublin Train Services 30 July 2007 [title changed]

The Denouncer

Ah come on lads. I was willing to forget last weeks 4 delays between Monday and Wednesday. I was willing to forgive the stupidity of the Drogheda train debacle and the delay getting home last Tuesday (driving in parallel to a Malahide DART at Connolly about 20 metres before letting it go ahead so we could crawl behind all the way behind it to Howth Junction - thanks driver, 35 minutes late).
Now I know tonights delays are to do with the overhead lines between Connolly and Clontarf Road, but for the love of **** will you get the speakers fixed at Pearse. FFS "Can I have your attention echo mumble Clontarf mumble echo echo mumble delay mumble mumble echo echo.." everyone looking at each other "What's she saying?" from 4.40pm. Then I get a train to Tara (it stopped to let the Southside travellers on and go back the way it came) and ask an Irish Rail guy if a train to Donabate is due "Maybe 10 minutes, maybe 30, I don't know. Use you ticket on the bus" great, thanks bud. The 33 bus with a queue a mile long, if thats the right bus? Comes every 30 minutes.
Walked down to Connolly and no change, no-one with a clue. Everyone milling around like headless chickens.
Got a taxi instead on O'Connell St. €27 to the Donabate train station to pick up my car, and the car park was full. A bloke stood there on his mobile phone, babe in arms, waiting for mammy to come home. But he was probably as perplexed as most of the good citizens traveling Northbound tonight. Over 2 hours after I left work I got home, and I suspect many more were delayed a lot longer because they simply did not know what was going on or the seriousness of the situation.
Poor, Irish Rail. Bad crisis management. Bad service. Pity until the last 7 days I thought things were getting better, but the shambles is always there lurking, waiting to emerge.

Pineapple stu

I take it you didnt have a good week

The Denouncer

cymro - no. Look, I know there are going to be problems now and then, 10 minute delays here and there. I can say I visited other countries and was never delayed, but of course everyone can say that.
But lately they have been taking the piss, really and truly. You feel almost a sense of desperation when that damn Drogheda train is delayed at the best of times, but when the whole northbound service goes haywire, then we are all up **** creek without a paddle.

parsi

[QUOTE=The Denouncer(driving in parallel to a Malahide DART at Connolly about 20 metres before letting it go ahead so we could crawl behind all the way behind it to Howth Junction - thanks driver, 35 minutes late)..[/QUOTE]

It's not like driving on the M50 with someone letting another car pull in front. One of the trains was stopped by a signal which wouldn't be the driver's fault.

Sounds like a right pain of a day today though.

The Black Oil

The speakers in Pearse are pretty crap. Was hanging around for the guts of an hour from about 4:45 on and didn't see any orange fluorescent jackets on the northbound side. Of the course the 6pm 33 didn't turn up either. I can imagine others had worse though.

ixoy

Urge to kill rising!

What an appalling shambles today:

Firstly, delayed in the morning when the doors to the train wouldn't close. I've noticed that it's always happening with one particular type of DART carriage (those with very close seats) so obviously Irish Rail got stock on the cheap or of poor quality (never really seen it on other types of DART carriage).

But that pales into insignificance next to the travesty this evening. Let's look at a few highlights:
1) When waiting at Connolly for a Drogheda train, I got to watch about 4 other trains drive on to Pearse and terminate. Why couldn't Irish Rail have used one of those to move to Drogheda instead of the latter one that eventually arrived? They're the same type of train.

2) How long does it take them to work on the damaged power line? It was clearly visible on the northbound line, just after the branch off to Maynooth but nobody was working on it. Instead, further down the line, I saw them sitting on their little, motionless, repair vehicle.

3) Is it impossible to keep passengers betters informed as to what's up? Information was terribly patchy, even after eight pm when they should well have had the situation under control.

4) Is there a reason that more diesel trains couldn't be put on the Northern Line and service those DART stations without service? Is there some driver training/insurance reason not to?

5) Can they not arrange better communication with Dublin Bus? Some drivers were refusing to accept train tickets despite the notices at train stations.

Seriously, the lack of contingency plans in these situations is astounding. If it works, it's fine but when it fails it's a disaster.

Victor

ixoy wrote:

4) Is there a reason that more diesel trains couldn't be put on the Northern Line and service those DART stations without service? Is there some driver training/insurance reason not to?

Not enough rolling stock.

A Dub in Glasgo

The Denouncer wrote:

(driving in parallel to a Malahide DART at Connolly about 20 metres before letting it go ahead so we could crawl behind all the way behind it to Howth Junction - thanks driver, 35 minutes late).

**** day I know but the 'blame' for that is with the train regulators at Connolly

ixoy

Victor wrote:

Not enough rolling stock.

Well there was a number of them clearly visible from Connolly, just parked by the wayside. These could easily have alleviated some of the problems, no?

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/10841089?view=Eircomnet&cat=Breaking%20News

Major disruption to Dublin rail lines
From ireland.com17:27 Monday, 30th July, 2007

Commuters are experiencing major disruption to rail services operating north of Tara St station in Dublin this evening.

All northside Dart, and Northern and Maynooth line commuter services, as well as Belfast and Sligo Intercity services have been cancelled until further notice.

Iarnród Éireann say the disruption has been caused by overhead line damage north of Connolly Station, where a Dart is also blocking lines.

According to Iarnród Éireann, Docklands to Clonsilla services are operating normally, and a limited Maynooth commuter service will also operate from Docklands Station.

Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann will honour rail tickets on affected routes.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0730/dart.html

North side DART services suspended
Monday, 30 July 2007 21:11
Northside DART services and Northern Commuter are suspended this evening due to an overhead line fault.

All services were suspended from 8.45pm to allow staff to repair the overhead line damage, to ensure normal services operate tomorrow morning.

No DART services will operate between Tara Street and Killester Stations until further notice. These services will not resume this evening.

Dublin Bus will accept rail tickets for commuters traveling to the north side of the city.

Northern Commuter services are also suspended. Dublin Bus will honour rail tickets to and from Balbriggan, and Bus Eireann will honour tickets for areas north of Balbriggan.

Alternative bus transfers for commuters traveling north of Balbriggan is also being arranged.

The 8.10pm Belfast to Dublin train will terminate in Malahide, with bus transfer to Dublin.

Maynooth commuter services and Sligo Intercity services are operating.

DART services are still operating from Tara Street to Bray.

More than 10,000 commuters were affected earlier when services were disrupted on all services on the north bound DART route, northern and Maynooth commuter and Belfast and Sligo services.

positron

Victor wrote:

Not enough rolling stock.

I really don't know hence the question - I thought the Government has more tax money coming in than expected (surplus) and why is it that they don't have enough to spend on basic infrastructure?

There were similar delays back in May as well, I remember wandering in the door around midnight, after leaving work around half past five! :mad:

Red Alert

Presumably the chance of an overhead failure all shows the need for some non-everyday older diesel rolling stock to be kept instead of being cut up. (Could the Mk3 Push-pulls or some older railcars when their time is up be good for this?)

Public Address systems as a rule in this country are woeful. Galway's one is really bad in particular - I missed a train because of it one time! A good system needs to have a good microphone and the person using it needs to speak loudly and clearly. Next the amplifiers need to have enough power to make it loud enough to hear, and for an environment like a train station there needs to be what's called an equalizer to stop it turning into mush. Finally nothing beats good PA speakers, with enough of them to cover the area evenly.

Zoney

positron wrote:

I really don't know hence the question - I thought the Government has more tax money coming in than expected (surplus) and why is it that they don't have enough to spend on basic infrastructure?

It's not about money - the government just can't run a country. People without clean running water, reliable electricity (even excluding blackouts it's dodgy over/under voltage or glitches all the time), no reliable landline phone let alone broadband, kids shoved 30 or more into cramped rotting prefabs... (EDIT - tirade shortened)

Our leader's glorious response? How on earth do we avoid just committing suicide?

Ham'nd'egger

ixoy wrote:

Well there was a number of them clearly visible from Connolly, just parked by the wayside. These could easily have alleviated some of the problems, no?

That stock may well have had other trips to make, hence them not serving the DART lines as you would have liked to. In any case, DART drivers and railcar drivers won't be trained up on each others routes (or rolling stock) so they won't be able to chop and change that quickly.

Were old stock to be kept in case of situations like this, they and a loco would need to be kept handy (near the DART in this case, but where? There is no room as it is), drivers would need to be free who know how to drive same and the line would need to be safe for same to operate on (If an overhead line was at fault, there would be a risk of the line being unsafe, especially if power lines are down and dangerous).

It isn't as handy as hopping into a bus, sadly

Thelikefaneire

I have to admit everytime there is a delay pearse is NOT the place to be. The speakers are too far apart and they are really bad. The last big delay i was in was the one back in may after a day in placement. I missed my usual train because it was really over crowded and then the delay started and i was stuck on the platform for 40 minutes or more untill a train came in. I knew what was going on as i was sitting directly under one of the speakers and they were announcing everything clearly but NO ONE knew what was going on and the re-directed darts going back north kept pissing people off and apparently there was chaos waiting for the Maynooth train that was announced for platform 4 but there was one late for 3 and people were stuck trying to get both. For 40 minutes not a word about drogheda trains and the balbriggan train from that time had been delayed aswell and went at one stage, but no drogeda train. It was a real mess, but i was able to hear it all.

The Hill Billy

The Denouncer wrote:

the delay getting home last Tuesday (driving in parallel to a Malahide DART at Connolly about 20 metres before letting it go ahead so we could crawl behind all the way behind it to Howth Junction - thanks driver, 35 minutes late)...

I stood on the same train & asked myself "What is the %$£*& controller thinking?!"

Not only do they need to upgrade the PA system in Pearse, they also need to schedule the announcements properly. 9 out of 10 times they will make an announcement as a train is thundering into the station & not a word can be heard.

The Denouncer wrote:

Over 2 hours after I left work I got home, and I suspect many more were delayed a lot longer because they simply did not know what was going on or the seriousness of the situation.

It took me 4 hours to get home!
Then again, pint bottles of Bulmers in the evening sun outside Mahaffey's watching the world go by seemed way better than trying to squeeze onto the delayed 18:15 train with all the passengers from 16:43, 17:13, 17:28, etc, etc.

The Denouncer

It's not like driving on the M50 with someone letting another car pull in front. One of the trains was stopped by a signal which wouldn't be the driver's fault.

**** day I know but the 'blame' for that is with the train regulators at Connolly

Sorry these happened last Tuesday I think, not yesterday (subject of this thread was changed to better wording than my own) - the 4.40pm (Pearse) Drogheda train was delayed 20 minutes at this stage and the driver didn't fill people in on why..the train stopped at Connolly and I looked out the window at the 5.07pm Balbriggan train I used to get when I left work late..lo and behold that pulled off first. Then a Malahide DART pulled up and I thought to myself ("No surely we'll be let go before that?")..but the regulator let the DART go first..it was strange both trains pulled off from platform 5 and 6 at the same time but the DART was let go..it just didn't make sense at all. I put it down to a driver standing in for someone on holidays, but it all paled into insignificance compared to yesterdays fiasco.

By the way i heard on the radio that Inter City services were back by 7pm yesterday, and the Herald AM this morning says they were back within an hour - I can't see how this is true because I was hanging around ages and nobody from Irish Rail had a clue when they would be back working.

Rashers72

I think the only ones who think it works are Irish Rail.
My experience:
Pearse street - the diesel Drogheda and Maynooth trains 'dwelling' at the stations are so loud, even if there were announcements via the PA system it is very difficult to hear them. And if you are unlucky enough to be sitting on a delayed diesel service, you will have virtually no chance of hearing announcements on the platforms due to the noise from the engines.
Connolly - following the upgrade to platforms a few years ago, someone decided to remove to PA speakers on all the North side of the platforms. On a regular basis, if you are on an 8 carriage DART/Drogheda/Maynooth service, and sitting in the last 2 carriages, it is unlikely you will hear anything on the platforms about delays. And we all know about the lack of driver announcements during delays- but seemingly that does not happen, and I am the only one to complain about that! It must be all in my mind!:mad:

The Denouncer

A lot of the issues are can be fixed relatively easily - better speaker systems on platforms, highly trained staff with better information, information as to buses that can be got for a particular route and time in case of delay, up-to-date announcements from the drivers on the trains themselves, staff to patrol platforms in times of crisis with information at hand.
I remember about 5 years ago I just missed a DART at Tara and the time for the next one counted down to 4 minutes..and stayed at 4 minutes..nobody knew what was going on, there was no sign of a train I'm not joking for 1 hour on a freezing platform I stood there looking at 4 minutes. No announcements at all. Eventually got a bus.
The next day I found a number and complained (don't think that number exists now?) and got in touch with a woman who proceeded to tell me the speaker system wasn't working either..and nobody was available to tell people what was going on..5 years later things don't seem to have improved much considering all the Celtic Tiger money 'floating around''.

matressmonkey

So after all the rant and raving, who do we call/e-mail to complain about the disastrous state of our transport systems?

MM

positron

Last time when I brought up the issues of unreliable service, a lot of people had a go at me for moaning! Ah well, I guess a lot of here have become used to the poor service and accepted it as normal standard. :mad:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054873345&referrerid=&highlight=

Rashers72

No use ringing Irish Rail - 'we note down your feedback' Nothing will change. There used to be a very good girl in the DART/suburban rail office, but that office only looks after the DART now.
Dept of Transport = complete waste of time. They just keep handing out the millions with no sense of accountability. Just once the Irish Rail spokesman claims the projects come in ahead of time, and ahead of budget (Hence the massive costing on the Docklands station, which was never going to cost anything like to projected costing).
Customer panels - there were notices about these a few years ago. I put my name down, but after about 6 months of a few email enquiries by me, and no responses, I found out the one for the Drogheda line was indefinetly delayed!
Platform 11 - good for commuters, but they have no real influence on the decision makers. Yet....But I find these very good for finding out what is actually happening.
So there you have it. No independent monitoring, that can actually change things. A real pity. You can only hope the Greens can do something about it.

Terrontress

The Denouncer wrote:

Sorry these happened last Tuesday I think, not yesterday (subject of this thread was changed to better wording than my own) - the 4.40pm (Pearse) Drogheda train was delayed 20 minutes at this stage and the driver didn't fill people in on why..the train stopped at Connolly and I looked out the window at the 5.07pm Balbriggan train I used to get when I left work late..lo and behold that pulled off first. Then a Malahide DART pulled up and I thought to myself ("No surely we'll be let go before that?")..but the regulator let the DART go first..it was strange both trains pulled off from platform 5 and 6 at the same time but the DART was let go..it just didn't make sense at all. I put it down to a driver standing in for someone on holidays, but it all paled into insignificance compared to yesterdays fiasco.

There is often a DART goes out in front of that 5.07. Minutes before it is due to leave. Then the 5.07 crawls all the way to Howth Junction.

Surely as a rule of thumb they should let the Enterprise go first, Diesel Commuters second and DARTs thirdly.

There are many things which seem obvious to me as a commuter but Irish Rail fail to have got the grasp of.

Terrontress

The Denouncer wrote:

Then I get a train to Tara (it stopped to let the Southside travellers on and go back the way it came) and ask an Irish Rail guy if a train to Donabate is due "Maybe 10 minutes, maybe 30, I don't know. Use you ticket on the bus" great, thanks bud. The 33 bus with a queue a mile long, if thats the right bus? Comes every 30 minutes.

There is no bus to Donabate. You have to get the 33 which goes via Santry and the airport to Swords. Takes 70 minutes according to the Dublin Bus website.

Then you have to wait for a 33b from Swords. Leaving at 6pm, 7pm, 7.30pm or 8.30pm

I'd imagine that was fairly full with people whose cars were parked in Donabate station.

Apparently there used to be a direct service from town but the cancelled it when the train frequency was increased.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

ixoy wrote:

Well there was a number of them clearly visible from Connolly, just parked by the wayside. These could easily have alleviated some of the problems, no?

they were probably needed for intercity services of commuters going southbound to gory or what ever it is called

the commuter trains break down much more than the DART. i fcuking hate those trains. do they have air conditioning? on the roof between the doors, that looks like an air conditioning unit. if it is why dont they turn the bloody things on? they are like sawna in the morning

daymobrew

Micah Little Chopstick wrote:

they are like sawna in the morning

If it's like a sauna, tell the driver. Recently I was on a Coolmine to Docklands service. The heating was on! I told the driver when we got to Docklands.

matressmonkey wrote:

So after all the rant and raving, who do we call/e-mail to complain about the disastrous state of our transport systems?

Someone suggested then when there are issues that passengers be told the email address of Richard Fearn (Irish Rail Chief Executive). Maybe if he was flooded with emails it might influence things. I often write to him but I'm only one voice.
I don't know the email address - richard.fearn@irishrail.ie perhaps?
His postal address is: Richard Fearn, Chief Executive, Iarnrod Eireann, Connolly Station, Dublin 1.

Rashers72 wrote:

Pearse street - the diesel Drogheda and Maynooth trains 'dwelling' at the stations are so loud, even if there were announcements via the PA system it is very difficult to hear them. And if you are unlucky enough to be sitting on a delayed diesel service, you will have virtually no chance of hearing announcements on the platforms due to the noise from the engines.

A few years ago I wrote to Richard Fearn, then the Chief Operating Officer, about this exact issue. It was when the Drogheda and Maynooth trains where scheduled to depart Pearse within a minute or so of each other (around 18:08). The electronic display constantly changed and the signs on the front of the trains weren't working. Just as Platform 11 had suggestion, I also suggested a cheap piece of cardboard with "Maynooth" or "Drogheda/Dundalk" be put in the front window.
It's pathetic.

So people, write to Mr Fearn - don't rely on others. Vent your dissatisfaction.

Zoney

I've had a good response in the past writing to Iarnród Éireann's customer relations - expect an acknowledgement of your letter followed by a more detailed response later (the allowable delay time is detailed on their website). By writing - I do mean old-fashioned snail-mail.

However, for the motions of it you should probably also write to the Minister for Transport, Noel "dial-up" Dempsey. He's the one overall responsible for the dire state of affairs that is transport in Ireland; however much government would have you believe that they aren't in charge of anything at all.

daymobrew

daymobrew wrote:

I don't know the email address - richard.fearn@irishrail.ie perhaps?

This email address didn't bounce, while the same one to iarnrodeireann.ie did. Flood the mailbox!

Zoney wrote:

I've had a good response in the past writing to Iarnród Éireann's customer relations - expect an acknowledgement of your letter followed by a more detailed response later (the allowable delay time is detailed on their website).

I used to write to Customer Services but they never replied within the allowable time (IIRC it is 3 weeks but I cannot find it on the website atm).

In light of this thread you can have a giggle at the following:

Irish Rail Customer Charter wrote:

Electronic passenger information systems and public address, where provided, will be kept in good working order and used to keep you informed especially if needed to notify you of delays.

When service delays and disruptions occur, you will be kept informed of the causes of such occurrences and their expected duration. We will display, in advance, posters providing information about planned maintenance works.

Now you can quote this when complaining to Mr Fearn and Noel Dempsey.

The Denouncer

Irish Rail Customer Charter
Electronic passenger information systems and public address, where provided, will be kept in good working order and used to keep you informed especially if needed to notify you of delays.

When service delays and disruptions occur, you will be kept informed of the causes of such occurrences and their expected duration. We will display, in advance, posters providing information about planned maintenance works.

LOL! What a load of crap.

It should read

Irish Rail Customer Charter
Electronic passenger information systems and public address, where provided, will be inaudible and never maintained when most needed to notify you of delays.

When service delays and disruptions occur, you will be not be kept informed of the causes of such occurrences and their expected duration. We will not display, in advance, posters providing information about planned maintenance works. We will not show any professionalism or efficiency whatsoever at all times.

ro2

1) If they had no problem running DARTs between Tara and Bray, why couldn't they run trains between Clontarf Road and Howth/Drogheda?

2) When there's a problem like this why do they just cancel services for the rest of the night? If they fix it at 10pm why can't they resume then?

3) Are there not four tracks at the point where the problem was? Why could they not use the other two while the repairs were going on?

The Denouncer

1) Well, that's what you get for choosing to live on the Northside.

2) 10pm? Yeah right, Irish Rail staff need a life too you know.

3) Yes 4 tracks, but part of the overhead line that fell was near one of those tracks so rather than move it, we cancelled all Diesel trains for a few hours, while we stood around and decided where to put it.