What will happen to earth after Armageddon?

JimiTime

In one of the threads in the past, I asked a question if anyone believed in a paradise earth in the future. BrianCalgary said that there seemed to be something suggesting a paradise earth in the bible. If there does 'seem to be something' why is it not discussed in Christendom? Is the general consesus, (among the christians here), that when a person dies he ascends to heaven or decends to hell? Is this process immediate, I.E. Are the dead currently in heaven or hell, or are they currently 'asleep' to be raised up for judgement at a later time?
My real point here is that if there is to be a paradise earth, then who will reside there? Does this then throw a spanner into the doctrine of heaven and hell currently held by much of the churches of christendom?

What are your thoughts?

Zombrex

JimiTime wrote:

What will happen to earth after Armageddon

Things get much worse ... "Perl Harbour" ... :eek:








... I'll get my coat ....

JimiTime

Wicknight wrote:

Things get much worse ... "Perl Harbour" ... :eek:








... I'll get my coat ....

Groan. Close the door on your way out:)

Calibos

After armageddon the earth becomes a fiery Hell in about 5 billion years when our sun becomes a supergiant and expands to the size of the orbit of Venus..............or is that in 5000 years? I always get it mixed up

Scofflaw

Wicknight wrote:

Things get much worse ... "Perl Harbour" ... :eek:

Being forced to write Perl forever in a run-down fishing port would be pretty serious alright.

cordially,
Scofflaw

UU

Calibos wrote:

After armageddon the earth becomes a fiery Hell in about 5 billion years when our sun becomes a supergiant and expands to the size of the orbit of Venus..............or is that in 5000 years? I always get it mixed up

Hmmm, sounds fun! I hope there'll be plenty of marshmallows and saunas.

Calibos

Calibos wrote:

After armageddon the earth becomes a fiery Hell in about 5 billion years when our sun becomes a supergiant and expands to the size of the orbit of Venus..............or is that in 5000 years? I always get it mixed up

Was I too clever for my own good, or was that just not funny?

Executive Steve

i don't know, but talking about it should be ok as long as mcd aren't the ones organising it...

BrianCalgary

Ok the fun is over. Back on topic.:D

What happens when we die?
There are two instances in the Gospels that I will refer to.

The first is the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Here we see two existences after death. One (the rich man) is a place of torment and unquenchable thirst. The second (Lazarus) is a pleasant place, a gulf exists between the two.You can not travel between the two.

The second is Jesus' statement on the cross to the thief when He tells him that today he will be in paradise with Jesus.

We also know that Jesus descended to the dead after His crucifixion. After which He ascended to Heaven.

Paul confirms this by stating in Phillipians 1:21-23:
21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;

To die is to be with Christ.

Those who are non-Christian go to the place where the rich man is and according to Revelation 20:11- 15, they are raised to face judgement.

Revelation 21:1
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

A new Heaven and a new Earth, as the old have passed away.

It doesn't throw a spanner into the works at all. It is pretty clear that there is a place where one goes on death, either Heaven or the bad side of Hades. In the end death and Hades will be cast into the lake of fire.

Those who die in the Lord will enter Heaven. At the end there will be a new Jerusalem and a new Earth. We will get to live in that paradise with God. Those that reject Him will get to suffer a second death.

JimiTime

BrianCalgary wrote:

Those who die in the Lord will enter Heaven. At the end there will be a new Jerusalem and a new Earth. We will get to live in that paradise with God. Those that reject Him will get to suffer a second death.

Thats my point, even here you are mentioning a new earth. Jesus says the meek will inherit the earth. My point is, if all the good are in heaven and the wicked in the second death, who will be on the earth?

BrianCalgary

JimiTime wrote:

Thats my point, even here you are mentioning a new earth. Jesus says the meek will inherit the earth. My point is, if all the good are in heaven and the wicked in the second death, who will be on the earth?

I think in the end the new Earth is a part of Heaven. Just like Calgary is a part of Alberta which is a part of Canada.

JimiTime

BrianCalgary wrote:

I think in the end the new Earth is a part of Heaven. Just like Calgary is a part of Alberta which is a part of Canada.

What makes you conclude its part of heaven? Sorry for probing, but I feel that your point is very vague. I don't see the basis for this assumption Is there something that backs up this view of heaven and earth? The confusing bit is that one is the spirit realm, the other the physical world

BrianCalgary

JimiTime wrote:

What makes you conclude its part of heaven? Sorry for probing, but I feel that your point is very vague. I don't see the basis for this assumption Is there something that backs up this view of heaven and earth? The confusing bit is that one is the spirit realm, the other the physical world

Revelation 21
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

Since Heaven is the dwelling place of God, He comes to dwell with His people, therefore where He is, is where Heaven is.

There is no question that there will be new Earth and a new heaven, we His people will reside there. We will have new bodies (Phillippians 3:21) and as stated in Revelation a whole new order.

JimiTime

BrianCalgary wrote:

Revelation 21
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

Since Heaven is the dwelling place of God, He comes to dwell with His people, therefore where He is, is where Heaven is.

There is no question that there will be new Earth and a new heaven, we His people will reside there. We will have new bodies (Phillippians 3:21) and as stated in Revelation a whole new order.

This is very interesting. Especially the bit about no sea, and later its says there is no sun or moon as it will be lit with the Glory of God. I'll have to really get my teeth into this. Look at both the symbolism and literal content. Thanks for your answers Brian appreciated as always. Beware however, I'll probably be back with more probing:)

Excelsior

To BC: Nice posting Mod! I likes it.

To Jimi: I may be reasserting everything Brian has written in less easily understood terms, but the only line that comes to mind in this thread is:

The Second Coming is all well and good but its not the end of the world!

BA-dum tssh.

I will join Wicknight and get my coat.

Seriously though, the whole point of Jesus coming, for Christians, was that he would reconcile man to God. With that central relationship restored we are given a new stability to come to terms with ourselves and freed to live contently in our true identity and from this self assurance to make peace with all around us- people, the environment, politics, culture, absolutely everything becomes our regeneration project which is how we serve God.

In Revelations Jesus says, "Behold! I make all things new!" It has become my favourite verse in the Bible I think. Heaven is not some boring floaty place in the clouds. It is the Kingdom of God. Jesus, if you remember, defined his mission as the inauguration of the Kingdom of God. So the end result of his mission (when he comes the 2nd time it will be the Victory Day which follows the "D-Day landing" of Christmas and the "taking of Berlin" at Easter) is the full realisation of God's Kingdom here on Earth. The Earth will be transformed and made new though and this is the eternal resting place that Christians claim to be citizens of now.

hairyheretic

Excelsior wrote:

Seriously though, the whole point of Jesus coming, for Christians, was that he would reconcile man to God. With that central relationship restored we are given a new stability to come to terms with ourselves and freed to live contently in our true identity and from this self assurance to make peace with all around us- people, the environment, politics, culture, absolutely everything becomes our regeneration project which is how we serve God.

Why wait? Why not start making peace with all thats around you now?

UU

In reality nobody knows what happens after we die, when Armageddon will happen (if it will or not). Speaking of it though, I was in a bookshop today and I spotted a book about the Mayans' predictions of Armageddon in 2012. After all, there's just as much possibility of that happening as the Christian one (that's not a question, that's statement).

Of course, many Christian churches have been endeavouring to predict when Armageddon will occur. Some notable examples include 2000 (the new millenium), then the 06/06/2006 (three sixs = Satan). Now it is another obscur date in 20 years time or something which will probably not happen like the rest of the false predictions in the past. The Hindus are also predictioning the end of the world, they have as much chance of being right as well. Likewise for some Pagan religions, Islam. They could all be wrong as they can't all be right.

Also, scientists are saying that the physical world will cease to exist when the sun blows up but that isn't supposed to be for billions of years and by then, the world will probably be in such a terrible state that there will be no life and it would be just as barren and vacant as the rest of our neighbouring planets.

To ask the question "What will happen to the Earth after Armageddon?" is in the indicitive tense which expresses certainy. It should be in the subjective tense as nobody knows. What's the point of pondering for hours on end over what MAY happen or what MIGHT POSSIBLY happen or what MAY NOT happen. (Not the subjective tense which expresses uncertainty, unlikelyhood, probability, unknown). That's just my opinion, if you have anything to add, please feel free to do so but no rude comments please as that is unacceptable.

Regards,

UU

hairyheretic wrote:

Why wait? Why not start making peace with all thats around you now?

That's the only valuable post I've read on this whole thread. Be inspired now.

Actually what I've posted above is just a load of meaningless jargon which ought to be thrown in the bin. Although, I won't delete it for arguement's sake. Hairyheretic managed to convey much more and something much more valuable in one line. Thanks for that enlightening post Hairy. All thanks appreciated.

JimiTime

UU wrote:

That's the only valuable post I've read on this whole thread. Be inspired now.

Actually what I've posted above is just a load of meaningless jargon which ought to be thrown in the bin. Although, I won't delete it for arguement's sake. Hairyheretic managed to convey much more and something much more valuable in one line. Thanks for that enlightening post Hairy. All thanks appreciated.

Not to be contentious, but the question was asked from a Christian perspective. So it is asked with certainty. Whether you don't believe its a certainty is not relevant for the question. Really its a Christian question, so if you don't believe in its certainty, its probably not a thread to be involed in.:)

JimiTime

Excelsior wrote:

Seriously though, the whole point of Jesus coming, for Christians, was that he would reconcile man to God. With that central relationship restored we are given a new stability to come to terms with ourselves and freed to live contently in our true identity and from this self assurance to make peace with all around us- people, the environment, politics, culture, absolutely everything becomes our regeneration project which is how we serve God.

In Revelations Jesus says, "Behold! I make all things new!" It has become my favourite verse in the Bible I think. Heaven is not some boring floaty place in the clouds. It is the Kingdom of God. Jesus, if you remember, defined his mission as the inauguration of the Kingdom of God. So the end result of his mission (when he comes the 2nd time it will be the Victory Day which follows the "D-Day landing" of Christmas and the "taking of Berlin" at Easter) is the full realisation of God's Kingdom here on Earth. The Earth will be transformed and made new though and this is the eternal resting place that Christians claim to be citizens of now.

So is what you are saying, that the earth will be the Kingdom? We will live forever on a paradise earth?

Medina

BrianCalgary wrote:

.

We also know that Jesus descended to the dead after His crucifixion.

.

Can you post the verse where Jesus informs someone of this please?

Medina

UU wrote:

Likewise for some Pagan religions, Islam.

Sorry if I've misundstood you but Islam is not a Pagan religion

Excelsior

JimiTime wrote:

So is what you are saying, that the earth will be the Kingdom? We will live forever on a paradise earth?

That is what I am saying. Those who are faithful to God will enjoy God's full presence in a regenerated Earth.

HH, I don't think you read my post carefully. The major outworking of the theology I have outlined is that peace now, environmental harmony now and respect for life now all gain massive significance we are partnering with God in the making-things-new process.

It also feeds into aesthetics, politics, everything really...

hairyheretic

Excelsior wrote:

HH, I don't think you read my post carefully. The major outworking of the theology I have outlined is that peace now, environmental harmony now and respect for life now all gain massive significance we are partnering with God in the making-things-new process.

You may be right. I thought you were refering to the second coming, given that the thread concerned after armageddon. Rereading it now, were you refering to the first?

wolfsbane

JimiTime said:

In one of the threads in the past, I asked a question if anyone believed in a paradise earth in the future. BrianCalgary said that there seemed to be something suggesting a paradise earth in the bible. If there does 'seem to be something' why is it not discussed in Christendom?

It is discussed, Jimi, its just that there is not too much we can say. The Scripture gives some hints, but a lot of it is in prophetic passages where metaphor is widely used. So it is difficult to isolate the literal from the symbolic.

The clear statements at least reveal it is not this present Earth that is in view. It will be destroyed.

Is the general consesus, (among the christians here), that when a person dies he ascends to heaven or decends to hell?

It certainly is the historic Christian position.

Is this process immediate, I.E. Are the dead currently in heaven or hell, or are they currently 'asleep' to be raised up for judgement at a later time?

Their bodies lie in the earth, their spirits go either to Hades (a sort of remand prison) or to be with Christ in God's immediate presence.

My real point here is that if there is to be a paradise earth, then who will reside there?

The saved from every age.

Does this then throw a spanner into the doctrine of heaven and hell currently held by much of the churches of christendom?

It is the historic Christian view - but many Churches today no longer believe many key doctrines of Scripture.

Brian gave a good account of many of the details of the New Heaven and New Earth.

Medina

wolfsbane wrote:

Their bodies lie in the earth, their spirits go either to Hades (a sort of remand prison) or to be with Christ in God's immediate presence.

So on the Judgement Day, all the bodies and spirits will be reconciled and will face God so that the spirits in hell will go back to hell with their bodies and the spirits in heaven will go back to heaven with their bodies?

JimiTime

wolfsbane wrote:

JimiTime said:

It is discussed, Jimi, its just that there is not too much we can say. The Scripture gives some hints, but a lot of it is in prophetic passages where metaphor is widely used. So it is difficult to isolate the literal from the symbolic.

Ok. Could it be however, that the doctrine of the churches of Christendom say , heaven and hell, and to delve too deep will maybe contradict a doctrine they've held for over a millenia? I mean, Jesus says, the meek will inherit the earth?

The clear statements at least reveal it is not this present Earth that is in view. It will be destroyed.

Does it say that the earth will be destroyed? or this system of things on earth will be destroyed?

Their bodies lie in the earth, their spirits go either to Hades (a sort of remand prison) or to be with Christ in God's immediate presence.

So you are seperating hell from hades?

Brian gave a good account of many of the details of the New Heaven and New Earth.

Indeed he did, but my point is that we've only scratched the surface. If we read with the thought, 'heaven and hell' maybe we'll keep missing the point. Maybe you need to unlearn in order to learn. I mean, whats the meaning of the 144,000 number by Jesus' side? The 12 gates of new Jeruselem? Great stuff. Maybe there is a prophet still to come before judgement day, to reveal the sacred secrets. If I recall correctly there is something about 2 prophets coming in the last days. Do you recall that scripture?

Excelsior

hairyheretic wrote:

You may be right. I thought you were refering to the second coming, given that the thread concerned after armageddon. Rereading it now, were you refering to the first?

Argh! I can understand the confusion. The "Left Behind" crew have so warped people's ideas of Christian eschatology.

I was referring to the Second Coming. The un-understood aspect of Christian theology in this area is that salvation is not simply a ticket to the afterlife, it is an invitation to join with God *now* in his regenerating work *now* that when finished will result in the 2nd Coming.

Thus my claim that the "End Times" is the impetus for action in the here and now.

wolfsbane

Medina said:

So on the Judgement Day, all the bodies and spirits will be reconciled and will face God so that the spirits in hell will go back to hell with their bodies and the spirits in heaven will go back to heaven with their bodies?

Yes and No. The wicked are then cast into Gehenna and the righteous inherit the new heavens and new earth:

Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”...8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

hairyheretic

Excelsior wrote:

Argh! I can understand the confusion. The "Left Behind" crew have so warped people's ideas of Christian eschatology.

Thankfully I've not read any of those then. I can be confused on my own

Excelsior wrote:

I was referring to the Second Coming. The un-understood aspect of Christian theology in this area is that salvation is not simply a ticket to the afterlife, it is an invitation to join with God *now* in his regenerating work *now* that when finished will result in the 2nd Coming.

Touching back to our discussions previously on Grace then?

Excelsior wrote:

Thus my claim that the "End Times" is the impetus for action in the here and now.

Gotcha. Hey, at least we have that cleared up now

wolfsbane

JimiTime said:

Ok. Could it be however, that the doctrine of the churches of Christendom say , heaven and hell, and to delve too deep will maybe contradict a doctrine they've held for over a millenia? I mean, Jesus says, the meek will inherit the earth?

What Jesus said is what historic Christianity has said, in all its various brands. Whether they are Premillenial, Postmillenial, or Amillenial, they all end up with the meek inheriting the earth. It is of course the new earth, not the present corrupted one.

Does it say that the earth will be destroyed? or this system of things on earth will be destroyed?

The former, which also includes the latter:
2 Peter 3:5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
...10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

So you are seperating hell from hades?

I'm separating Gehenna from Hades. The confusion comes from our English word hell being used of several things. Gehenna is: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/1/1164058369-7363.html
This is the place Christ warns of in:
Luke 12:4 “And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

From Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, in which he keeps hell to properly refer only to Gehenna:

(1) For the rendering "hell" as a translation of hades, corresponding to Sheol, wrongly rendered "the grave" and "hell," see HADES. (2) The verb tartaroo, translated "cast down to hell" in 2Pe 2:4, signifies to consign to Tartarus, which is neither Sheol nor hades nor hell, but the place where those angels whose special sin is referred to in that passage are confined "to be reserved unto judgment;" the region is described as "pits of darkness," RV.

For our discussion, Hades and Gehenna are the two places involved. Presently all the wicked dead are in Hades awaiting the Judgement. After the Judgement, all the occupants of Hades are cast into Gehenna:
Revelation 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Indeed he did, but my point is that we've only scratched the surface. If we read with the thought, 'heaven and hell' maybe we'll keep missing the point. Maybe you need to unlearn in order to learn. I mean, whats the meaning of the 144,000 number by Jesus' side?

The symbolic representation of the total number of the elect Jews? Certainly there is much to learn, and we need to be aware of the possibility of 'baggage' when we come to interpretating Scripture. But that does not mean that most of what we know is suspect. It is fairly clear and well-thought through.

The 12 gates of new Jeruselem?

The picture of the New Jerusalem is symbolic of the Church, that much is evident. The elect of God, made up of the faithful of both Old and New Testament ages, represented by the twelve tribes and the twelve apostles

Great stuff. Maybe there is a prophet still to come before judgement day, to reveal the sacred secrets. If I recall correctly there is something about 2 prophets coming in the last days. Do you recall that scripture?

Yes, it speaks of the Two Witnesses: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=11&version=50

I doubt it refers to two individuals, but Christians differ as to the liklihood of its meaning. Some are looking for Elijah and Enoch, the only men not to have physically died. But the issue of revealed secrets does not depend on such individuals. The Holy Spirit has been given to us and when we need to understand prophetic events, He will give us understanding.

Paul expected the Thessalonian Christians to be able to discern key aspects of the End times from already revealed truth:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20thessalonians%202;&version=50;

And Daniel seems to be speaking of an inward revelation rather than one made obvious to all:

Daniel 12:9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

The danger of looking for new prophets is that the Church is built on the foundation of the New Testament apostles and prophets. That foundation was laid and does not go on being laid. The teaching they gave us in the Scriptures cannot be added to. What is going to come are false prophets, bringing teachings not in the Scripture. This is symbolised in Revelation 13: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=13&version=50

Paul speaks of the final delusion in 2 Thessalonian passage previously referred to:
2 Thessalonians 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Excelsior

HH- I think everything in Christianity relates back to Grace


Off topic but worthwhile nonetheless....
And wolfsbane- while we may disagree on Genesis 1, it has to be said that you are a mighty fine defender of the Scriptures. Keep running the race sir!

JimiTime

wolfsbane wrote:

JimiTime said:

What Jesus said is what historic Christianity has said, in all its various brands. Whether they are Premillenial, Postmillenial, or Amillenial, they all end up with the meek inheriting the earth. It is of course the new earth, not the present corrupted one.

Actually, I wouldn't say that. In all my time, I've only heard people talk of your spirit going to heaven or hell (or the awful doctrine of purgatory). Earth was never discussed.

I'm separating Gehenna from Hades. The confusion comes from our English word hell being used of several things. Gehenna is: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/1/1164058369-7363.html
This is the place Christ warns of in:
Luke 12:4 “And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

From Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, in which he keeps hell to properly refer only to Gehenna:

For our discussion, Hades and Gehenna are the two places involved. Presently all the wicked dead are in Hades awaiting the Judgement. After the Judgement, all the occupants of Hades are cast into Gehenna:
Revelation 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

So where was Jesus for the 3 days?

The symbolic representation of the total number of the elect Jews? Certainly there is much to learn, and we need to be aware of the possibility of 'baggage' when we come to interpretating Scripture. But that does not mean that most of what we know is suspect. It is fairly clear and well-thought through.

How do you arrive at the conclusion that the 144,000 means the number of elect Jews? And what do you mean by 'elect' jews?

The picture of the New Jerusalem is symbolic of the Church, that much is evident. The elect of God, made up of the faithful of both Old and New Testament ages, represented by the twelve tribes and the twelve apostles

How is it evident? Are you speaking about 'the church' being all denominations of Christendom, or one in particular?

And just to be clear. I do understand that we don't have to throw out everything we know, but I find much corruption in the world of christendom. I try throw out the bathwater and keep the baby, so I do thread carefully. I look around at the people who just say, 'look what religion has caused', 'the wars, the oppression'. Those same people in turn shut their minds to the thought of God. I then see the crusades, the troubles in Northern Ireland (while I accept that it is republican and unionist, Religious groups have not helped, and certainly not been Christian), the oppressive rule of the RC Church among others, and think, 'One of the biggest contributors to the stumbling of people is the corruption of God through the world of christendom'. As I said before, and this is not up for debate with me as my conclusions are solid, Hell, the trinity and the bible being the literal 'Word of God' for me are corruptions. I know that these are things that most would dis-agree with me on, and even deride me as not being a 'proper' christian for not believing, but there in lies the extent of the corruption. This principal that I work from is the same principal that stops me quoting scientists which are for or against creation. I don't know them, or the science, so why would I trust them?

BrianCalgary

Medina wrote:

Can you post the verse where Jesus informs someone of this please?

JimiTime wrote:

So where was Jesus for the 3 days?

Ephesians 4:9-10
What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.

BrianCalgary

JimiTime wrote:

Actually, I wouldn't say that. In all my time, I've only heard people talk of your spirit going to heaven or hell (or the awful doctrine of purgatory). Earth was never discussed.

Probably because the emphasis is put on being reconciled to God and communion with Him for eternity. Whether or not Earth is involved is pretty minor.

JimiTime wrote:

How do you arrive at the conclusion that the 144,000 means the number of elect Jews? And what do you mean by 'elect' jews?

Revelation 7:4-8
4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

It is pretty clear that they come from the tribes of Israel and have been elected by God for a particular purpose.

JimiTime wrote:

As I said before, and this is not up for debate with me as my conclusions are solid, Hell, the trinity and the bible being the literal 'Word of God' for me are corruptions.

Where can you garner the support that these doctrines are corrupted?

Medina

Just to throw something into the mix, in Genesis 8 the following verse is to be found:

20 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. 21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though [a] every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

22 "As long as the earth endures,
seedtime and harvest,
cold and heat,
summer and winter,
day and night
will never cease."


This doesn't really tally with the 'end of the world' we're told of.

JimiTime

BrianCalgary wrote:

Probably because the emphasis is put on being reconciled to God and communion with Him for eternity. Whether or not Earth is involved is pretty minor.

Not really that minor when you consider that most people believe they'll be floating off to heaven. Why is that doctrine never corrected or clarified. If what you are saying is true, then you should not be preaching that the good go to heaven, for you don't know.

Revelation 7:4-8
4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

It is pretty clear that they come from the tribes of Israel and have been elected by God for a particular purpose.

Once again Brian, I thank you for that clarification.

Where can you garner the support that these doctrines are corrupted?

From the same source that you would use to prove them. No satisfactory answer has been given on hell or the trinity in any thread. I have the distinct advantage that I'm not tied to the doctrines, because I'm not a member of an organisation that says I must follow this or that. I am completely free to read the bible with an open heart and mind. Free to question what I feel needs to be questioned and have nobody but God to answer to. The consequences for you discovering the doctrine of hellfire or the trinity to be false is that you will not be able to be part of your organisation. That is a huge barrier, and one that I'm happy to say I'm free of. I have no human go-between. I talk to God through his Son, and read the bible testimonies. I talk to others like yourselves to get your insights. Sometimes they help me see error in my thought, sometimes they show me the error in yours. If you see the trinity and hellfire discussions in the dogma and truth thread you'll see what I've said and shown. I assure you, these doctrines are most certainly false, but don't take my word for it, read the bible accounts with an open heart and you'll see it also. Then again, if you believe as many do, that without a belief in the trinity I'm not a real Christian, my words will mean nothing. The threat of heracy rang loud at the first council of nicea in relation to the trinity. A tree will be known by its fruit. the catholic church were certainly far from Christian in both behaviour and doctrine, so maybe it was those who didn't give into the threats that should be remembered as the real Christians. Just some food for thought.

Medina

BrianCalgary wrote:

Ephesians 4:9-10
What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.

Hi Brian,
Ephesians is written by Paul, who never met Jesus and only met Peter later in his life. Also it refers to ascending to 'earthly' regions, not hell.

Now if you can explain to me why Jesus would not refer to this during his lifetime himself, nor told the apostles when he reappeared after his death, then that might be a bit more convincing.

All the work, all the detail, all the information etc that Jesus took great pains to teach and tell the apostles and he didn't mention this??

Not sure I can believe 'it just wasn't important enough'.
And whats more, because Jesus didn't refer to it himself, I find it strange that the church would take someone else's word for such an important event that it is part of the creed and at the same time manipulate what he's saying.

JimiTime

Medina wrote:

Hi Brian,
Ephesians is written by Paul, who never met Jesus and only met Peter later in his life. Also it refers to ascending to 'earthly' regions, not hell.

Now if you can explain to me why Jesus would not refer to this during his lifetime himself, nor told the apostles when he reappeared after his death, then that might be a bit more convincing.

All the work, all the detail, all the information etc that Jesus took great pains to teach and tell the apostles and he didn't mention this??

Not sure I can believe 'it just wasn't important enough'.
And whats more, because Jesus didn't refer to it himself, I find it strange that the church would take someone else's word for such an important event that it is part of the creed and at the same time manipulate what he's saying.

Hi medina, I know this is between you and Brian, but could I just get some clarity on what you're saying? Are you arguing that Jesus didn't die and then rise again after 3 days, and then later ascend to heaven? Sorry, I'm just not getting the question you're asking.

BrianCalgary

Medina wrote:

Hi Brian,
Ephesians is written by Paul, who never met Jesus and only met Peter later in his life. Also it refers to ascending to 'earthly' regions, not hell.

Now if you can explain to me why Jesus would not refer to this during his lifetime himself, nor told the apostles when he reappeared after his death, then that might be a bit more convincing.

All the work, all the detail, all the information etc that Jesus took great pains to teach and tell the apostles and he didn't mention this??

Not sure I can believe 'it just wasn't important enough'.
And whats more, because Jesus didn't refer to it himself, I find it strange that the church would take someone else's word for such an important event that it is part of the creed and at the same time manipulate what he's saying.

Thanks for the questions Medina

There have always been two lines in teh Apostles creed that have bothered me. This and 'one baptism for the remission of sin'. (That is another discussion though.)

So i don't necessarily buy into the descent to the dead, or Hell or Hades, depending on your translation.

There are two passages that refer to it, the aforementioned Ephesians and

1 Peter 3:18-20:
18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Apparently the line in the creed didn't appear until AD390.

The line in 1 Peter could indicate that Jesus went to the part of hades that held the good folk as described in His parable Luke 16:19-31, and took all with Him to Paradise as also promised to the thief on the cross.

In the end analysis I think that I will hold to the view that Jesus went and got the souls from that part of Hades and took them to Heaven.

Here is a link to a decent article:
http://www.girs.com/library/theology/descnd.html

BrianCalgary

JimiTime wrote:

Not really that minor when you consider that most people believe they'll be floating off to heaven. Why is that doctrine never corrected or clarified. If what you are saying is true, then you should not be preaching that the good go to heaven, for you don't know.

Heaven is a state where one is in complete communion with God. So I will continue to preach it.

JimiTime wrote:

Once again Brian, I thank you for that clarification..

My pleasure.

JimiTime wrote:

From the same source that you would use to prove them. No satisfactory answer has been given on hell or the trinity in any thread. I have the distinct advantage that I'm not tied to the doctrines, because I'm not a member of an organisation that says I must follow this or that. I am completely free to read the bible with an open heart and mind. Free to question what I feel needs to be questioned and have nobody but God to answer to. The consequences for you discovering the doctrine of hellfire or the trinity to be false is that you will not be able to be part of your organisation. That is a huge barrier, and one that I'm happy to say I'm free of..

I am also not tied to any one denomination. I go to the church of my choice, I am a member because I have read and agreed with their statement of faith and it also allows me to grow in my relationship to Christ and to use the gifts that God has given me, through His spirit to advance His kingdom.
If the denomination made a doctrinal change that they couldn't answer for biblically I would leave. I am also free to read my bible and through friends and others even on thsi board who have great questions I delve into the word to continually discover more about my God. We are also encouraged to ask questions of any church leader on any topic.

JimiTime wrote:

I have no human go-between. I talk to God through his Son, and read the bible testimonies. I talk to others like yourselves to get your insights. Sometimes they help me see error in my thought, sometimes they show me the error in yours. If you see the trinity and hellfire discussions in the dogma and truth thread you'll see what I've said and shown. I assure you, these doctrines are most certainly false, but don't take my word for it, read the bible accounts with an open heart and you'll see it also. Then again, if you believe as many do, that without a belief in the trinity I'm not a real Christian, my words will mean nothing. The threat of heracy rang loud at the first council of nicea in relation to the trinity. A tree will be known by its fruit. the catholic church were certainly far from Christian in both behaviour and doctrine, so maybe it was those who didn't give into the threats that should be remembered as the real Christians. Just some food for thought.

I also chat with God directly, through Christ, He says that the only way to the Father is through Him.

The RC church does some some doctrine that is not biblical, but one can find salvation through that organisation.

A link to the denomination of my church and it's staement of faith and verses to support the statements:
http://cmalliance.ca/statementoffaithp86.php

Medina

BrianCalgary wrote:

In the end analysis I think that I will hold to the view that Jesus went and got the souls from that part of Hades and took them to Heaven.

Thats really sweet Brian

I don't believe he went down there at all, but if he did, then i hope thats why.

You piss me off so much sometimes as I know I do you, and sometimes you come out with complete gems like this

BrianCalgary

Medina wrote:

Thats really sweet Brian

I don't believe he went down there at all, but if he did, then i hope thats why.

You piss me off so much sometimes as I know I do you, and sometimes you come out with complete gems like this

A little lost here. Why would this piss you off, and in light of 1 Peter 3:18-20, how would you interpret the meaning of the passage?

And no, you don't piss me off, frustrate periodically, but not piss off.:)

Medina

This didn't piss me off, but you have in the past

I think your bouyant optimism and hope comes through very strongly sometimes, particularly here!

And its nice

JimiTime

BrianCalgary wrote:

Thanks for the questions Medina

There have always been two lines in teh Apostles creed that have bothered me. This and 'one baptism for the remission of sin'. (That is another discussion though.)

So i don't necessarily buy into the descent to the dead, or Hell or Hades, depending on your translation.

There are two passages that refer to it, the aforementioned Ephesians and

1 Peter 3:18-20:
18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Apparently the line in the creed didn't appear until AD390.

The line in 1 Peter could indicate that Jesus went to the part of hades that held the good folk as described in His parable Luke 16:19-31, and took all with Him to Paradise as also promised to the thief on the cross.

In the end analysis I think that I will hold to the view that Jesus went and got the souls from that part of Hades and took them to Heaven.

Here is a link to a decent article:
http://www.girs.com/library/theology/descnd.html

If i may draw your attention to something here Brian. You say that these things don't sit right with you. Why don't they? Because you believe Jesus is God, and that Hell, Hades etc is a place for the wicked or those on remand as its been described by wolfsbane. So if in fact Jesus was 'not' God but the only begotten son of God, 'and' if hell referred to the grave, i.e. the dead are dead until the resurection, there would not be a conflict! I said it before, a lie leads to another lie to cover the first one and so on and so on. This happens with the trinity and the doctrine of hellfire. No meandering is needed when these doctrines are thrown out. No confusion, no meandering, just sense and knowledge of our Sovreign Creator.

BrianCalgary

JimiTime wrote:

If i may draw your attention to something here Brian. You say that these things don't sit right with you. Why don't they? Because you believe Jesus is God, and that Hell, Hades etc is a place for the wicked or those on remand as its been described by wolfsbane. So if in fact Jesus was 'not' God but the only begotten son of God, 'and' if hell referred to the grave, i.e. the dead are dead until the resurection, there would not be a conflict! I said it before, a lie leads to another lie to cover the first one and so on and so on. This happens with the trinity and the doctrine of hellfire. No meandering is needed when these doctrines are thrown out. No confusion, no meandering, just sense and knowledge of our Sovreign Creator.

Way off target here Jimitime.

It doesn't sit well because the biblical references are so vague.

To set things straight: Jesus is God become man. He holds the nature of both at the same time and is fully God and fully man.

He died to take our sins on debt upon Himself. He went to the good side of Hades, populated by the righteous, such as Lazarus and took them to Paradise with Him. (This is where the Bible is vague.)

When we die we go to be with God we have already been judged and found to be righteous as a result of Christs action on the cross.

In the end there is a new Heaven and Earth, to be enjoyed by those who have been saved, through Christ.

Those who are in Hades (only the bad side exists at this time) are then judged on their works. They are found wanting and then are given an eternity without God, which is described as a lake of fire.

Everything that I have just stated is Biblical. The only reason that I am uncomfortable with the phrase 'descended to the dead' is because any passage used to defend this position is vague. I accept it now based on Ephesians 4 and 1 Peter 3 but if anyone can show me different I will be right there with you.

JimiTime

BrianCalgary wrote:

Heaven is a state where one is in complete communion with God. So I will continue to preach it.

So if you are good and have faith, you don't go to a 'place' called heaven? Again forgive me if I'm not getting it, but it seems vague. The common meaning people say is that Heaven is Gods dwelling place, and the good go there when they die. Is it a place or a state of being? If its a state of being, where does it occur?

I am also not tied to any one denomination. I go to the church of my choice, I am a member because I have read and agreed with their statement of faith and it also allows me to grow in my relationship to Christ and to use the gifts that God has given me, through His spirit to advance His kingdom.
If the denomination made a doctrinal change that they couldn't answer for biblically I would leave. I am also free to read my bible and through friends and others even on thsi board who have great questions I delve into the word to continually discover more about my God. We are also encouraged to ask questions of any church leader on any topic.

Fair enough, I take your word on that. As for being free to read the bible. I can tell you right now that you are not. Your mind is in a cage of doctrine, which crushes reason and plants thought in your head. I am speaking from experience here. You will not even realise it. You could read the same scripture everyday for a year and believe it means one thing, you don't even give it a second thought because you have already settled into your doctrine. It controls your sense and reason, without you even knowing it. Only when your eyes are opened, you realise what the scripture actually means. Again, I can only hope that this does not fall on deaf ears. In the past it was me who was deaf with my own certainty, thank God those days are gone and I am healing. God be praised, Amen.

I also chat with God directly, through Christ, He says that the only way to the Father is through Him.

I hope you didn't think I implied that you didn't. Just to draw on what you said here though, You chat to God through Christ. Then you say the only way to the 'Father' is through Christ. Think about it, trinity doctrine, making sense??

The RC church does some some doctrine that is not biblical, but one can find salvation through that organisation.

Yes, one can find Jesus through RC, but it sends people to spiritual sleep. Also, Mary worship, transubstantiation, the papacy among others. one cannot serve 2 masters, either you adhere to the RC teaching or to the truth, you cannot have both as they are in direct conflict. In fact its probably the biggest converter to non-christian faiths due to their inherrent teachings.

God is our almighty creator, Jesus is his only begotten Son who died as a ransom for Adams sin, reconsiling man to God. He made Gods name manifest and ascended to heaven to be our King. God be praised through his Son Jesus Christ Amen.

JimiTime

BrianCalgary wrote:

Way off target here Jimitime.

It doesn't sit well because the biblical references are so vague.

To set things straight: Jesus is God become man. He holds the nature of both at the same time and is fully God and fully man.

He died to take our sins on debt upon Himself. He went to the good side of Hades, populated by the righteous, such as Lazarus and took them to Paradise with Him. (This is where the Bible is vague.)

When we die we go to be with God we have already been judged and found to be righteous as a result of Christs action on the cross.

In the end there is a new Heaven and Earth, to be enjoyed by those who have been saved, through Christ.

Those who are in Hades (only the bad side exists at this time) are then judged on their works. They are found wanting and then are given an eternity without God, which is described as a lake of fire.

Everything that I have just stated is Biblical. The only reason that I am uncomfortable with the phrase 'descended to the dead' is because any passage used to defend this position is vague. I accept it now based on Ephesians 4 and 1 Peter 3 but if anyone can show me different I will be right there with you.

Oh well, I tried.:(

wolfsbane

Excelsior said:

Off topic but worthwhile nonetheless....
And wolfsbane- while we may disagree on Genesis 1, it has to be said that you are a mighty fine defender of the Scriptures. Keep running the race sir!

Now that is an example of true Christian spirit. Thank you, Bro.

wolfsbane

JimiTime said:

Actually, I wouldn't say that. In all my time, I've only heard people talk of your spirit going to heaven or hell (or the awful doctrine of purgatory). Earth was never discussed.

I don't know what religious groups you have been exposed to, but I only speak of the Evangelical churches I have encountered both personally and by way of media. Both the Reformed end (mine) and the Biblical Fundamentalist usually have something to say about the new earth.

Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Bible is a classic work among Evangelicals. Nearly every home had it over the past couple of centuries and gleaned a lot of their theology from it. Here's what it says on 2 Peter 3:13:

1. What true Christians look for: new heavens and a new earth, in which a great deal more of the wisdom, power and goodness of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ will be clearly discerned than we are able to discover in what we now see; for in these new heavens and earth, freed from the vanity the former were subject to, and the sin they were polluted with, only righteousness shall dwell; this is to be the habitation of such righteous persons as do righteousness, and are free from the power and pollution of sin; all the wicked shall be turned into hell; those only who are clothed with a righteousness of Christ, and sanctified by the Holy Ghost, shall be admitted to dwell in this holy place.

So where was Jesus for the 3 days?

I was speaking only of the present and future after-life. To speak of what happened before the Lord rose from the dead we must take another look. Christ Himself spoke of the Paradise in which He would that day meet the repentant thief who was crucified with him. He also spoke during His ministry about Hades and Abraham's Bosom:
Luke 16:22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

So before His resurrection, Christ was in two places: His body was in the grave, His spirit was in Paradise/Abraham's Bosom. It appears the latter was not the immediate presence of God, but a blessed place of waiting for the atonement to be made and for their Saviour to come and lead them into the Father's presence.

On His resurrection, Christ brought all the righteous dead with Him to heaven.

How do you arrive at the conclusion that the 144,000 means the number of elect Jews? And what do you mean by 'elect' jews?

Because it says they were of the 12 tribes of Israel, and then shows that in addition to these there was a great multitude of other saints also.

By 'elect' I mean those chosen by God for salvation. Election is a major theme of the doctrine of salvation, e.g:
Matthew 24:22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened
Romans 8:33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
1 Thessalonians 1:4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.
1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

For an overview of what election involves:
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

How is it evident? Are you speaking about 'the church' being all denominations of Christendom, or one in particular?

I mean it is evident that the New Jerusalem is a picture of the Church because of the terms used. See how the Church and Christ are pictured as Bride and Groom in Ephesians 5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ephesians%205:22-33;&version=50; and then compare with:

Revelation 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Revelation 21:9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Revelation 21:14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Revelation 21:24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, ... 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

The Church is not any one of the denominations, nor yet of them all. Most of Christendom are not Christians in the Biblical sense, many of the churches having departed from the faith long ago. Some true Christians are in among them, but few. Even in faithful churches, many individuals make false professions of faith. None but those genuinely born again of the Spirit will ever enter the New Jerusalem.

And just to be clear. I do understand that we don't have to throw out everything we know, but I find much corruption in the world of christendom.

Indeed.

I try throw out the bathwater and keep the baby, so I do thread carefully. I look around at the people who just say, 'look what religion has caused', 'the wars, the oppression'. Those same people in turn shut their minds to the thought of God. I then see the crusades, the troubles in Northern Ireland (while I accept that it is republican and unionist, Religious groups have not helped, and certainly not been Christian), the oppressive rule of the RC Church among others, and think, 'One of the biggest contributors to the stumbling of people is the corruption of God through the world of christendom'.

I totally agree.

As I said before, and this is not up for debate with me as my conclusions are solid, Hell, the trinity and the bible being the literal 'Word of God' for me are corruptions. I know that these are things that most would dis-agree with me on, and even deride me as not being a 'proper' christian for not believing, but there in lies the extent of the corruption.

Hmm. Why are they so solid when you admitted not having an answer to what the Bible said on eternal torment? Nor had you the answer to the other texts on the deity of Christ. I accept one can have a principle of understanding that governs how we interpret details, but if your principle contradicts the details, you have a faulty principle.

This principal that I work from is the same principal that stops me quoting scientists which are for or against creation. I don't know them, or the science, so why would I trust them?

Indeed, trust no man. But one can put weight to their words, depending on their character. The only thing we can trust is the Word of God.

wolfsbane

Medina said:

Just to throw something into the mix, in Genesis 8 the following verse is to be found:

20 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. 21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though [a] every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

22 "As long as the earth endures,
seedtime and harvest,
cold and heat,
summer and winter,
day and night
will never cease."


This doesn't really tally with the 'end of the world' we're told of.

I see what you are getting at - Does this imply no future Judgement Day?

The context clarifies it. The Old Testament warns of the Day of Judgement, e.g.
Daniel 12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel%2012;&version=50;
Malachi 4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Malachi%204;&version=50;

The reference then to 'never again' must be to another sifting of mankind as with Noah's Flood. That Judgement spared the righteous man and his family, but they were not sinless. From them arose another generation of wicked men and so on down to ourselves. But with the Last Day, only the righteous are saved and they are made perfect. The present earth will be destroyed and the sinless saints will inherit the new one.

So no repeat of the judgement that destroys the wicked but lets them rise again:
2 Peter 3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Peter%203;&version=50;