Does anyone know any homophobic gay people?

Dudess

Sounds like a contradiction in terms, but they're out there apparently. Gay people who think along the same lines as some heterosexual people - "we shouldn't be having parades, we shouldn't be open about our sexuality, we deserve not to have equal rights." I know someone like that myself, who's constantly referring to other gay men as "fags" etc and has no time for gay rights lobbyists. There's a term for this phenomenon I'm sure.

Stark

Dudess wrote:

There's a term for this phenomenon I'm sure.

Yes. Click on Pandorra's box to show:

Internalised homophobia

.

Now that you've seen the term, be prepared to see and hear it till your eyes and ears bleed for time eternal.

the_syco

TBH, it sounds like a gay person who hates camp gays with a passion.

spurious

Some people hate the fact that they're gay, and hate what they see as 'over the top/obvious/confident/camp/butch' gay people.

Some of the very bitchy gay men seem to genuinely hate other gay men.

I think if they were straight though, they'd just find something else to bitch about - some people aren't happy unless they're unhappy.

Dudess

Well the guy I know is extremely camp! But he's really posh (and such a vile snob) so his kind of camp (i.e. not "common" camp) is ok. Just found some article claiming that Nell McClafferty is a homophobic homosexual. Didn't know that. Presume it's a pretty tenuous claim.

spurious

Nell's autobiography certainly did show a fair amount of self-hatred over the 'lesbian thing' but I haven't read the article you mention.

damien

Dudess wrote:

Gay people who think along the same lines as some heterosexual people

Bigotry isn't a heterosexual trait by the way.

we shouldn't be having parades,

You don't have to be homophobic to think the current parades are divisive although I'm sure you can be labeled as such, I certainly was on another forum and was also deemed a closet case because I pointed out that the current shams of "pride" parades are as relevant to the ideals of Stonewall as having a barbeque is to honour the IRA hunger strikes.

But to answer your question, there are a good deal of gay people out there who are homophobic yet they all still like the .. pop music.

UU

Yes, I know some gay homophobes.

One of them is a young Muslim chap. You see, his family are extremelly strict Muslims where homosexuality is seen as a immortal sin and some sort of disease. He finds it very hard to face the fact that he's gay and he's been brought up despising gay people. As a result, he hates a part of who he is. He's been trying for years to "de-homosexualise" himself by trying to become heterosexual but of course it didn't work. Luckily, his family don't know. He's kept his details confidential. He has support luckily but we have to choose between his sexuality and his family . . . . . .

Then one can look at many Catholic priests and nuns who were / are sexually fustrated. As a result, they pretend that they're not gay and outlash against the LGBT community.

It's all sort of like a vicous circle. The best thing is to give the person support ans understand their problem.

Dudess

damien.m wrote:

Bigotry isn't a heterosexual trait by the way.

That's not what I meant. I meant that I have heard of some gay people who have homophobic prejudices that appear to be on the same lines of the prejudices held against gay people by some heterosexuals - not that bigotry is confined solely to heteros. I'm heterosexual and I'd get damn stroppy if someone suggested we were all bigots or only we could be bigots!

UU, that's really sad about the Muslim lad. Anyone see that Channel 4 documentary a few months ago about Gay Muslims. Really heart-breaking stuff. These young people honestly see no hope for themselves. One guy could no longer see his kids. Another guy decided that he was just going to have to "train" himself to be straight and settle down with a woman. He saw it as his only choice. A girl had to accept the fact that she was going to become estranged from her family. Not only did they have to deal with their terrible family issues, those who were out also had to put up with homophobia AND racism.

azezil

I know one in particular, who believes its wrong and immoral, would never date a guy or come out and believes gay people don't deserve equal rights under the law, but then I seen him at the pride march dressed as a sailor, cheering while Pantie was giving her speech, I just wanted to go over and deck him, god damn hypocrite!

abetarrush

Well im straight, and the only thing that bothers me about gays are the girly "bitches" [not being prejudice!]

In my eyes they're trying to be the sterotype of what they are, which makes them EXTREMELY hypocritical. Theres guys in my school who might aswell walk around in a pink jumpsuit with a loudspeaker 24/7 sayin I'M GAY, as if noone knew
Its SO annoyin, they say that its perfectly normal, but at the end of the day, they're always looking for extra attention

Basically jus loads of hypocrasy

UU

Yes Dudess I saw that programme too. I was very sad. There is actually an organisation in Britain for gay Muslims. There was a news article once about Muslims from the LGBT community who marched in the Pride Festival in San Francisco I think. They actually set up their own Mosque and received death threats from their families and other Muslims in the USA and abroad.

In the programme, a young lesbian Muslim's family brought her along to their local Imam to do an exorcism to rid the "evil demons" out of her. In the end, she left her family and basically said "If Allah made me this way, it was obviously his plan" or something like that. Here's another good article I found: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3721344.stm

And then there was that incident last year in Iran where the two young gay Muslim teenage boys were found in bed together and were hanged. That shocked the world. At least gay Muslims in First World countries have some hope but those in countries like Nigeria or Iran, are in grave danger.

Sapien

abetarrush wrote:

Well im straight, and the only thing that bothers me about gays are the girly "bitches" [not being prejudice!]

In my eyes they're trying to be the sterotype of what they are, which makes them EXTREMELY hypocritical. Theres guys in my school who might aswell walk around in a pink jumpsuit with a loudspeaker 24/7 sayin I'M GAY, as if noone knew
Its SO annoyin, they say that its perfectly normal, but at the end of the day, they're always looking for extra attention

Basically jus loads of hypocrasy

Oh, holy mackerel, this species of opinion *really* gets my goat.

Here's a shocking thought: perhaps many gay men are innately more effeminate! That means "girly", by the way, abetarrush. Perhaps gay culture is like any other on the face of the planet - and comes with its own trends and fashions and mannerisms and modes of expression. Perhaps gay boys affecting effeminacy is no different from other teenage boys wearing baseball caps, or using phrases like "Story?" or "Bleedin' rapih".

Perhaps it's a relief for gay teenagers to be able to be open about their sexualities, and perhaps they feel an unconscious urge to express themselves more than usual once they realise they can without getting beaten up.

The only "hypocrisy" here is in people claiming to have no problem with gay people, but expressing disgust when one of them dares to make it obvious.

UU

abetarrush wrote:

Well im straight, and the only thing that bothers me about gays are the girly "bitches" [not being prejudice!]

In my eyes they're trying to be the sterotype of what they are, which makes them EXTREMELY hypocritical. Theres guys in my school who might aswell walk around in a pink jumpsuit with a loudspeaker 24/7 sayin I'M GAY, as if noone knew
Its SO annoyin, they say that its perfectly normal, but at the end of the day, they're always looking for extra attention

Basically jus loads of hypocrasy

Well you have to remember sometimes that some gay guys are feminine in nature. It can be put on also and rather annoying in ways. But I find it equally annoying when some straight guys put on this whole macho thing: "Like I'm a man, and I can't show feelings and I have to make myself look cool by picking on fellas who are a bit weaker!" I'm sorta camp but that's not my fault, it's just the way I am. Also, just because some fella acts camp, it doesn't nessessarily mean that he's gay. He could be metrosexual?

Also, when one is hanging around with camp gay guys like myself, they can be very influential. Although, not all gay guys are camp, I know some who are extremelly masculine and others who act as straight as a plank!

damien

I have nothing against <insert minority> BUT

abetarrush

SAPIEN:

see, you couldnt even reply without an insult

I just said it annoys me, i never said it was wrong

And I didnt say they're all like that, but a lot of them are

Wha I meant is a lot of people who come out, make themselves out to be more feminine than they actually are for attention, and thats what I think is wrong

Ive no probs with someone who's girly, as long as that's how they truly are



so there

Annasopra

abetarrush wrote:

Well im straight, and the only thing that bothers me about gays are the girly "bitches" [not being prejudice!]

That's like saying I'm not racist but I hate those black people

Sapien

abetarrush wrote:

SAPIEN:

see, you couldnt even reply without an insult

I just said it annoys me, i never said it was wrong

And I didnt say they're all like that, but a lot of them are

Wha I meant is a lot of people who come out, make themselves out to be more feminine than they actually are for attention, and thats what I think is wrong

Ive no probs with someone who's girly, as long as that's how they truly are



so there

Indeed. Frankly abetarrush, I consider opinions like the one you have expressed to be gravely insulting. You demonstrate that you, like a huge majority of people, bear negative associations with the gay "stereotype", and consider it acceptable to declare that you find it "annoying". You demonstrate the assumption, though you partially rescinded it later, that campness in gay men is affected to "get attention".

How could you possibly know if someone is "mak[ing] themselves out to be more feminine than they actually are". How do you know that they have not been hiding it all this time? How do you know that it doesn't come out naturally and unconsciously now that they're more relaxed? And even if they are putting it on, so what!? Who in Hades are you to judge? Would you have us believe that you don't, ever, modify the way you behave so that you may be seen in a particular way? Are you really completely natural at all times? Few, if any, are, and, to be perfectly honest, I don't see why anyone would particularly want to be. If a gay kid in school wants to make it part of his image, part of the impression he puts across, that he is gay and proud, then I can only be full of admiration.

ixoy

*Shrug* Abettarush - your opinion is shared by a fair few within the gay community, for what it's worth. There are many gay people - who are out and the like - who dislike the whole "effeminate" thing that you're mentioning. These aren't people who are ashamed of themselves necessarily either, they just could share similiar thinking to you.

I certainly can see what you're saying - in my unenlightened, pre-out days I thought along the same lines as you. However, spend a little time out there, and you'll realize that - as others have said - it's generally actually quite natural for most and certainly no more affected than the crappy macho "ladz" image that many fellas put on either or how some women could be bitchy to keep within a particular group or how etc etc. You get the idea..

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

I don't know, I agree mostly with what abetarrush is sayin'...for what it's worth I'm straight, and I don't have any problem at all with gays, but I see some gay people, and they just go out of their way to make sure that everyone knows they're gay...I'd have a hard time believing that this is natural behaviour, like I'm not totally in your face straight rubbing it in all the time...I think there's a large degree of attention seeking involved, people that otherwise are lacking in personality feel the need to buy into a stereotype to define themselves.

Of course this is just my opinion, and I'm open to dialogue...

MicraBoy

ike I'm not totally in your face straight rubbing it in all the time...

I think you'll find that you are, especially to camp gay people.

Hmm_Messiah

MicraBoy wrote:

I think you'll find that you are, especially to camp gay people.

What a strange thing to say. Is it not more likely he knows how he behaves slightly better thann you do ? Unless you know him.

A lot of what ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI said makes sense to me but then I think all people seek attention to some extent, its perfectly reasonable.


I don't like certain camp people because they are so far removed from how I see myself yet both of us are grouped under this little gay umbrella. I can enjoy flamboyance etc its just when it comes across as false/forced/distorted. But then I also dislike people who ramble on incessantly about GAA because I'm in Kilkenny, or people who "dress strange". I had a girlfriend yrs ago with the weirdest dress sense, and I'd often feel uncomfortable in company with her. Then I guess I grew up and realised how totally superficial that is (also cleverly buying her loads of new clothes hehe), but I don't see any reason whay gay people would not be homophobic - surely they carry still at least the memory of all that they have been told is true and negative about homosexuality and for some at least their must be conflict between what they learned/believed and what they are?

I guess a dislike of camp gay people stems from "not wanting to be that type of gay", but to me the overall problem is using "gay" as a way to describe any one.

swiss

I don't mind straight people, as long as they act gay in public.

Dudess

swiss wrote:

I don't mind straight people, as long as they act gay in public.

Lol! Yeah, I actually think the phrase "I don't mind gay people as long as they're not in my face" is downright reprehensible.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Dudess wrote:

Lol! Yeah, I actually think the phrase "I don't mind gay people as long as they're not in my face" is downright reprehensible.

Why? I ask out of desire to understand.

Twinkle-star15

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote:

Why? I ask out of desire to understand.

Because saying "I don't mind gay people as long as they don't act gay" is a bit like saying "I don't mind black people as long as they don't look black".

/my 2 cents.

Shellie13

abetarrush wrote:

Well im straight, and the only thing that bothers me about gays are the girly "bitches" [not being prejudice!]

In my eyes they're trying to be the sterotype of what they are, which makes them EXTREMELY hypocritical. Theres guys in my school who might aswell walk around in a pink jumpsuit with a loudspeaker 24/7 sayin I'M GAY, as if noone knew
Its SO annoyin, they say that its perfectly normal, but at the end of the day, they're always looking for extra attention

Basically jus loads of hypocrasy

Ye i no what you mean!
Like you see some gay guys (in particualar) and its like their sexuality has become their entire personality. Yes accept who you are ALL of who you are not just who ya fancy... It seems like their practically prejudiced in their own minds as reguards gay sterotypes! If someones naturally camp thats fine but itds really agrovating when people try act up the sterotype over and over. There's mulitiple sides to anyones personality and too many people let sexuality dictate everything! So ye i dont no bout homophobia but definately self-sterotyping!

Dudess

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote:

Why? I ask out of desire to understand.

I know you didn't mean anything malicious ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI, but think about it. Attaching certain conditions to what you accept is, well, not acceptable.

abetarrush

Shellie13 wrote:

Ye i no what you mean!
Like you see some gay guys (in particualar) and its like their sexuality has become their entire personality. Yes accept who you are ALL of who you are not just who ya fancy... It seems like their practically prejudiced in their own minds as reguards gay sterotypes! If someones naturally camp thats fine but itds really agrovating when people try act up the sterotype over and over. There's mulitiple sides to anyones personality and too many people let sexuality dictate everything! So ye i dont no bout homophobia but definately self-sterotyping!

Exactly!

There was a gay and Lesbian version of Wanna Come In? on MTV a few weeks back

and one guy was sayin "We're gay, we hafta wear tight clothes!"

and on the G version of Room Raiders the guy said one of the guys was a disgrace to the gay community cos he was a slob with no fashion sense [aka, straight actin]

Theres a big load o peer presure from the Campsters

I know my original post was kinda insultin, i jus didnt explain it enuff

So, if u were insulted... eh.... i actually dont care

damien

abetarrush wrote:

and on the G version of Room Raiders the guy said one of the guys was a disgrace to the gay community cos he was a slob with no fashion sense [aka, straight actin]

You give out about camp gays who apparently you know are just overplaying stereotypes, yet use the term "straight acting"?

abetarrush

yeah, but I mean NATURALLY straight actin


Jaysis, I shudda stayed away from this thread

damien

abetarrush wrote:

yeah, but I mean NATURALLY straight actin

How does one naturally straight act? Is it the same as acting straight and pulling it off with such panache that people can't telll it from the real thing and assume it's natural?

abetarrush

whats a panache?


And when I say Acting, i dont mean they're bein like that on purpose


Jus shut up tryin t make excuses!

damien

Vicky Pollard wrote:

Jus shut up tryin t make excuses!

Thanks for the fantastic input there Vicky.

abetarrush

yeah, dat makes sense

gaymale.ie

I think all people including gays are to a certain extent homophobic. Homosexuality means non-procreation which sub-consciously implies death, hence a fear and distaste to homosexuality is inevitable , thankfully most people can break this mistaken connection and can for the most part live homophobia free lives. However, this connection often strike up again at any time even in the most pro gay of gay people and the anxiety it generates manifests itself as internalised homophobia.

Hmm_Messiah

gaymale.ie wrote:

I think all people including gays are to a certain extent homophobic. Homosexuality means non-procreation which sub-consciously implies death, hence a fear and distaste to homosexuality is inevitable , thankfully most people can break this mistaken connection and can for the most part live homophobia free lives. However, this connection often strike up again at any time even in the most pro gay of gay people and the anxiety it generates manifests itself as internalised homophobia.

100% nonsense