RTE's annoying Logos

I.J.

Anybody here ever watch RTE?. It can be a rare case these days. However, I came across this petition below challenging RTE's on screen logos. I don't know about anybody else but they are really starting to p*ss me off. Massive white blotches. Its like having something in the corner of your eye when trying to enjoy a show. I have signed this petition and I thought I should put it out for more people to see and sign.

http://www.petitionpetition.com/cgi/petition.cgi?id=6687&action=read

Guy:Incognito

most channels use logos, not jsut rte

I.J.

No state or semi-state channels use them. Plus its not that they use them but how much they impinge on the audiences viewing pleasure.TV3 and TG4 have done it discreetly so why not RTE?. They should be shrunk and put into the far corner. Whats the point in them anyway, we all have teletext now to switch over and back to in order to identify a channel.

http://www.petitionpetition.com/cgi/petition.cgi?id=6687&action=read

sceptre

In a clear case of twisted logic, some idiot in RTE decided that with so many satellite channels available, RTE need a DOG so that people know which channel they're watching. Which makes little sense as people with all those satellite channels (and on digital cable with all those cable channels) have an EPG which identifies the channel pretty well.

I.J.

Exactly sceptre, but even digital viewers had no method of I.D. RTE still don't have shout out their names. I am not being eccentric but those logos have really been bothering me for the last few months. I find it hard to concentrate on a TV show.

I just hope that petition works and I'm glad theres loads of people out there who agree with me because I wasn't sure if I was being a bit over the top.

I don't think RTE will ever get anything right. It doesn't take much to have a bit of organisation and attempt to cater for a wide audience. They don't even try and present something for night owls. All we get is euronews on the three licenced channels. I wouldn't even mind a nightly repeat of Miami Vice or Knight Rider

Elmo

I wouldn't even mind a nightly repeat of Miami Vice or Knight Rider

Isn't Miami Vice on TV3? Or at least it was a while back.
Knight Rider was on Saturdays on RTE One a year ago.

But the Logo are annoying we have had this tread we did try to get something done but to no avail.

Email them email them ring ring ring write write write (well as soon as an post are working again) and tell them we know for god sake that RTE owns N2.

I.J.

Hey Elmo,

TV3 only showed season 1 of Miami Vice at the beginning of 2003. Plus RTE haven't shown Knight Rider for 3 or 4 years. Knight Rider only has 80 episodes so if it was shown on weekdays it wouldn't take long to get through it if they were dissapointed about their timing of it. What is even more ridiculous is that "The A-Team" is on at 6pm. A 20 year old show at a prime time spot. I love that show but its on at such a stupid time. It has taken RTE, 2 and a half years to show a 98 episode series. Do they not realise that there is many millions of other programmes available to purchase?.

Elmo

What is even more ridiculous is that "The A-Team" is on at 6pm. A 20 year old show at a prime time spot.

Yeah I know what you mean but unfortunately the Ateam gets good numbers at that time.

Just look where they have put smallville and monk.

Yes we have also discussed this here, N2 bad schedule.

Winters

Originally posted by I.J.
What is even more ridiculous is that "The A-Team" is on at 6pm. A 20 year old show at a prime time spot. I love that show but its on at such a stupid time.

The A-Team is a classic, and I must say the time its on at usually makes for good sleeping/watchign tv on the couch time. I quite like it.

Just if RTÉ would reply Knight Rider, and TV3 QuantamLeap. And lets not forget about old McGuyver, how can they not repeat that!

The thing with the RTÉ logo's is just how much the impose on the screen. As mentioned the TV3 and TG4 ones are perfect and dont distract you, the RTÉ ones arent transparent enough and are too noticable. Also I hate the whole "RTE N2" insted of just "N2". Looks silly. And also the fact that they have them on during "The Den" as "The Den" has its own Dog's.

robbie1876

Back on topic, those logos are a threat to anybody who has a TV which suffers from burn-in, such as a plasma TV or a rear projection CRT. The logos are so intense that it wouldn't take much more than maybe 10 hours continuous watching of one of the RTE channels for the logo to be permanantly burned into the corner of your screen. I've a plasma at home and refuse to watch a movie on RTE for this very reason. The MTV logo is also dodgy, and most of the satellite Discovery add-on channels, like Discovery Home & Leisure.

I have decided to write to RTE about this problem, anybody know which department would be best to contact?

Ludo

I've mailed RTE about this a few times now and been fobbed off every time with some syupid reply about marketing decision etc etc. I pointed out the EPG does the job fine and that they could at least make them more discreet but it's a waste of time.

watty

Here is an Idea for All those Channels with logos, including RTE:

At present the logo is on during the program and off during the Advert.

We can't tell which channel is advertising unless we press Info or whatever.

We usually decide a program we want to watch and thus select a channel.

SOOO:

Logically, they should reverse for a trail period:
Logos ONLY/always on during Adverts
Logos never on during programs.

Lets see after 1 month:
1) How many viewers complain about the change

2) How many advertisers complain about the change


There isn't any suggestion is there, that the present arrangement is because they care about what the Advertisers think, but not what the viewers think?

celticfc

Don't get me started back on about them butt ugly DOG's. Terrible things, no need whatsoever for them nowadays. The only thing they were any use for was back in the days of old multichannel analogue satellite where there was no other was of really distinguishing between the channels, ie. there were no epg's/teletext naming etc.
Here's a couple of old threads from when RTÉ's DOG's were first introduced:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117036

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117914

Originally posted by robbie1876
I have decided to write to RTE about this problem, anybody know which department would be best to contact?

There's a list of Contact E-Mail addresses for RTÉ here.

Hyzepher

Slightly off topic but does anyone know what the other logos on RTE progammes are - the ones that appear at the start of the program and consist of 2 letters?

Hyzepher

celticfc

Originally posted by Hyzepher
Slightly off topic but does anyone know what the other logos on RTE progammes are - the ones that appear at the start of the program and consist of 2 letters?

Hyzepher

They are the programme classifications, just like on films. Except instead of having U, PG, 15, 18 etc. like they would be on a DVD/in the cinemas, they have GA (General Audience), MA (Mature Audience) etc.

I.J.

Robbie,

I sent an e-mail to Cathal Goan (director general of rte). He forwarded my e-mail to Dermot Horan (Director of TV programming). E-mail him: horand@rte.ie

Plus while your at it, maybe add a request for "Knight Rider"

I.J.

Hey everybody, lets do something "really" outlandish and boycott RTE because of those annoying on screen logos . I know if you want to see something you can try and ignore those "dogs" but there is several areas people can easily boycott them.

- If you have BBC1 make sure to watch Eastenders on that channel rather than RTE.
- Switch to TV3 news instead of RTE news.
- Watch "Agenda" on TV3 instead of "Questions and Answers".
- Try out TG4 for some great sport or even listen to SKY sports scrambled if you don't have the picture. Try out your radio as well.
- Use TV3 or a British teletext for information instead.
- If you have Channel 5 watch Home and Away over there. (Their 'dog' is discreet)
- Wait for the movie premieres to be on Channel 4 where there is no "dogs" plus where the commercial breaks are properly spaced. (you also get widescreen most of the time with movies)
- Watch Fraiser on Channel 4
- Watch Friends on Channel 4
- Watch Six Feet Under on Channel 4
- Watch ER on Channel 4
- Watch The Simpsons on BBC 2 or SKY 1
- Watch 24 on SKY 1
- Encourage your kids to watch another channel.
- If you are bored and want to watch anything. Watch anything BUT RTE!

Then after all that sign the petition below:

http://www.petitionpetition.com/cgi/petition.cgi?id=6687

celticfc

No need for multiple threads on the same subject.

Threads merged.

John R

Originally posted by I.J.

- If you have Channel 5 watch Home and Away over there. (Their 'dog' is discreet)

I haven't seen five in a few months (no FTV card anymore) but unless they have changed again there is no logo on the channel. It was dropped when they rebranded from "5" to "five".

BuffyBot

Yes, when the changed to the five branding, they dropped it

leeroybrown

Obviously the only time people notice the logo's is when they're pointed out on bulletin board threads. Otherwise, while slightly irritating they're pretty anonymous (even RTE's ones).

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by I.J.
Switch to TV3 news instead of RTE news.

that's brilliant. well done, you made me laugh

John R

Originally posted by leeroybrown
Obviously the only time people notice the logo's is when they're pointed out on bulletin board threads. Otherwise, while slightly irritating they're pretty anonymous (even RTE's ones).

Anonymous is exactly what they are not.

I.J.

leeroybrown, if they were annoymous we wouldn't be talking about them. We never complain about SKY or E4 using them because they are discreet. I complain about RTE because they are not and from what I have read these can damage digital and plasma TVs. I was wacthing a show the other day and one character who was talking but further back in the picture was hidden behind the RTE ONE logo which indicates how imposing and impinging they are on our screens. They encroach too much on our viewing pleasure.

Plus to DMT, I'm sure RTE did show all of them A-Team before. I was too young to remember individual episodes during its original air but I do remember loving it and thats why I look forward seeing it to the end for the first time.

eyerer

the logos are seriously crap
i know what channel i'm watching ffs and i dont get the advertisement thing, advertise the channel to people that are watching the channel?

and whats with this sudden "RTE network 2", for years you could almost think network 2 wasn't rte because there was never a mention of it, but now they don't stop

Elmo

We never complain about SKY or E4 using them because they are discreet

E4 is the biggest mutha..... and sky ones is about the same size as RTE's but more transparent.

Have you seen MTV's one, how could you possible miss them. 5 days to go 4 etc etc.

The reason your complaining about RTE's ones is because you possible watch RTE more, even though you dont realise it.

The should all be as small as TG4's (I don't really understand why they have it it that small)

TV3's is just as big but it is down the bottom of the screen.

IMO they shouldn't be allowed have them. Any TV channel.

the logos are seriously crap

I like the logos they're just too big.

and whats with this sudden "RTE network 2", for years you could almost think network 2 wasn't rte because there was never a mention of it, but now they don't stop

First it was RTE 2 then it was Network 2 then it was N2 now its RTE Network 2.
It worst the Today FM and The Examiner for name changes.

i know what channel i'm watching ffs and i dont get the advertisement thing

They should advertise something in them rather then the channel itself.

Also anyone else notice that the Icons on the Ads for RTE One And RTE ..... 2 have a bigger yet more transparent Icon, whats with that?

I.J.

Elmo, I actually probably watch E4, MTV or sky more than RTE. RTE has nothing to appeal to me other than the repeats of classic 80s show and they are rare too. The SKY logo, although in the same amount of letters as RTE ONE, is further back in the screen, slightly narrower and as you said, more transparent. Every little bit is annoying with RTE plus another reason I complain is probably because I have a right too. If I was legally allowed, I would stop paying for a TV licence but I have to pay an Irish licence so I can get the better British channels. If I didn't pay for an Irish licence I could invest that money in SKY digital and get all my favourite classic 80's shows on UK Gold whose logo, although pretty big, is still further into the corner of the screen. MTV doesn't bother me because the things I watch on that are shows that need little concentration.

Also if you think about it, I'm sure most people will realise that the top left corner of a screen grabs your attention than any other corner. Thats why TG4 or aren't a bother.

Zhane

i think its called 'development'. but i dunno, they dont bother at all. althought they could be a little more transparent.

John R

Originally posted by Elmo
E4 is the biggest mutha..... and sky ones is about the same size as RTE's but more transparent.

Have you seen MTV's one, how could you possible miss them. 5 days to go 4 etc etc.

The reason your complaining about RTE's ones is because you possible watch RTE more, even though you dont realise it.

The should all be as small as TG4's (I don't really understand why they have it it that small)

TV3's is just as big but it is down the bottom of the screen.

IMO they shouldn't be allowed have them. Any TV channel.


I like the logos they're just too big.


They should advertise something in them rather then the channel itself.

Contradicting yourself there Elmo.

The "xxxxxx programme thursday 9pm!" and "only 9 days to go 'til more sh1tty reality tv" crap annoys me even more than the plain logos.

The e4 logo is not too bad as it is very close to the edge of the screen and on widescreen programmes it is very small but the "brand new" etc is irritating. Best thing about e4 is when they show repeats very late (after 2am) they often have no ad breaks or split-screen credits.

The sky one logo is not much better than the rte one but it is not nearly as bright. As for MTV the more of that channel that is obscured the better imo, it is unmitigated rubbish and has been for years.

My vote for worst logo has to be FX, it's huge, multi-coloured and well away from the edge of the screen, I would enjoy the NYPD Blue repeats much more without it.

sceptre

Originally posted by John R
The "xxxxxx programme thursday 9pm!" and "only 9 days to go 'til more sh1tty reality tv" crap annoys me even more than the plain logos.

Flextech channels among the worst culprits there. That's before I get to rant about the uktv appearing disappearing red dot

Owenw

This topic always makes my blood boil.

There are no valid reasons for idents, red dots, split screen credits, voice-overs before the program/movie has ended etc. especially if you are viewing on a digital platform with info banners, text and an EPG telling you whats on now/next.

In fact if you think about it you are paying to have your TV programmes partially obscured with this rubbish.

Advertisers rightly refuse to put up with this during the commercial break, so why should we who pay for the service put up with it? It really reflects the broadcasters low opinion of their audience's intelligence.

Check out http://logofreetv.org/

byte

I actually like UKTV's method of adding/removing their RedDot between commercial breaks. Much better than being there permanently. I would be happy if RTE were to do this instead of having their logo onscreen permanently.

Or else, do what five do - no DOG but their logo flashed inbetween the adverts. Breakers or bumpers they're called I think?

I.J.

EVERYBODY!!!

Most people have had a response from Dermot Horan (Director of TV programming) giving the same BS reasons about why they need it.


E--mail Dermot Horan : horand@rte.ie


You should repeat all views expressed on this thread to him .e.g smaller dog, no dog, transparent dog, BBC being focred to remove theirs. Licence payers money going towards this crap.

(I already posted that e-mail here but I'm just making it clear that this is the official e-mail to have your voice heard)

Elmo

Contradicting yourself there Elmo.

I like the logo's but not the dog's

I hope that clears things up John.

And while I do dislike the dog's, if they want to use them let them be advertisements for a sponsor of a show. E.g. Aer Lingus shamrock as the DOG during ER or Nivea during 24, Vodaphone's Quote mark during Sex and The City.

But other wise just get rid of them.

I know that prob doesnt clear anything up but anyway.

Perhaps we should just email everyone in RTE (lets make a date and bombard them on that date)

cathal.goan@rte.ie
andrew.fitzpatrick@rte.ie
etc etc

Subject: Boards.ie againist RTE's DOGs/BUGs

sceptre

Originally posted by Elmo
I like the logo's but not the dog's

The logo is a DOG. It's digital, it's on screen and it's a graphic.

Subject: Boards.ie againist RTE's DOGs/BUGs

I'd advise against that subject line. RTE like anyone else assume that for every email, call or letter they receive maning about something there are another 100 people out there just as annoyed who didn't take the time to contact (it kept Star Trek on the air for two extra years for example). Highlighting the fact that it's a relatively small amount of people organising a campaign of emails sort of knocks that illusion on its head.

Elmo

The logo is a DOG. It's digital, it's on screen and it's a graphic.

True. But now your just being picky.

Of course when the Logo is printed in a news paper or magazine then it is not a DOG. PICKY PICKY

Also anyone else hate TV3's return from adds to a programme, the purple/green stroke?

Highlighting the fact that it's a relatively small amount of people organising a campaign of emails sort of knocks that illusion on its head.

I was just thinking we should say something, without the people we're emailing to having to open the email, they will know what its about and if they get a number of emails in with the same subject title relating to the DOGs then they would get the point.

I mean would u be happy if you got the same email in from several different people relating to the same subject???

It's just an Idea. But then so was the boycot on shops and yet we are prob the only country that didn't do that.

I.J.

sceptre is right.

Every subject should be different and your own personal one because RTE will see that they could be coming from anywhere.

(Head of TV programming): horand@rte.ie

Plus if cathal.goan@rte.ie backfires, try goanc@rte.ie I noticed RTE changed their e-mails about a year ago.

Elmo

My only point would be:-

would these people be bothered taking there time to read every indivdual email they get?

That why i suggest the one subject which goes directly to the heart of the matter, send by how ever many people on the one day at hopeful the same time.

Anyway if it is the case just to email RTE about it I think i have done my part.

sceptre

Originally posted by Elmo
True. But now your just being picky.

I'd say I'm being precisely general and you're being selective but at least we know what each other means

Of course when the Logo is printed in a news paper or magazine then it is not a DOG. PICKY PICKY

Correct - it isn't.

I mean would u be happy if you got the same email in from several different people relating to the same subject???

Nope - and that's the point. If you want RTE to drop it you (we) have to persuade them that there's a groundswell of disconnected support for this - that people all over the place are ticked off and will be watching far less RTE as a result. If we all sent in a form mail to RTE they're far more likely to just ignore it given that clicking send is so easy when someone else typed it for you. If it actually annoyed someone as much as they need to think it does, someone needs to write their own email with its own text. Given that they won't be getting hundreds of thousands of emails about it it would be important to think that there are all these people out there who aren't watching as much RTE because they really hate the on screen graphics or at least the intensity of the on screen graphics.

Send in a form letter by email and it only works if you manage to clog up every mailbox and fax machine. If they think 100 emails are representative of 100 people (same with 1000) they don't care as the cost of maintaining the logo is less than the cost (their perception of brand identity) of getting rid of it. Assuming that the mailbox clogging isn't going to happen you start by making them think that 100 people are really representative of a far greater number. If that works and gets their notice the form mail can be the next step.

I wasn't being critical of what you were saying, just advising that it most likely isn't the best way to start, assuming that RTE execs are in any way similar to any other TV execs (and before someone starts on the "they aren't similar because they're incompetent" line, they're more similar than they are dissimilar - they rely on the same basic marketing rules. And they're the rules you have to pervert.). RTE will be aware of the research done in the UK showing that 22% of people are ticked off about DOGs and 78% of people aren't. They're not pushed about one person and they probably aren't pushed about a large group of people. Make them think that the Irish figure is higher than 22% and make their advertisers aware that people aren't seeing their adverts because of the crap they put on the screen during programming and something might happen.

And you're right Elmo - anyone sending an email is better than not sending an email.

I.J.

RTE seems to have so many problems. The only show I actually ever watch on RTE is "Dallas". For the last few weeks I have had to increase the volume of my TV over 300% in order to hear it. That is far too much because the speakers almost blow when the show is over and RTE news immediately comes on.

Plus I also noticed when the ad-break picture appears that there is a sudden crackle from the TV when the "dog" vanishes. I don't notice this with any other channel when the break comes on. Whats so different about the mechanics of RTE's dog to other channels?.

Remember: horand@rte.ie Head of TV programming.