12 hour shift, then told to do another 4 hours. Is this right?

Gamer Bhoy 89 · 22-10-2019 10:27AM #1

My fiance got a new job recently and her hours have been... tremendous to say the least.

But today - or last night - was her first time doing an overnight shift. She did 9pm til 9am, then she was told there was training and a team meeting between 10am and 2pm.

She didn't seem too bothered by it but with the health issues I know her to have it concerned me that these people in her work don't give a flying **** what your health conditions are. Is it right to have someone do 12 hours then immediately get them to go to another 4 hours of training? If it's totally normal then I'll stand down from my annoyance at this.

But it's not sitting right with me at the minute. She will be finished at 2pm, and then she will have to try to stay awake until tonight because she's up again tomorrow morning for another 12 hour shift at 9am...

I've only ever experienced the atypical 9-5 job so this is out of my zone here and very odd to me.

Brian? · 22-10-2019 10:28AM

That’s illegal. It’s that simple.

_Brian · 22-10-2019 10:32AM

It’s something I’ve done myself but it’s awful if you have to do it regularly.

She absolutely could have declined the request, or asked to leave work early to facilitate her returning.

She could ring in and say she was unable to sleep and so is unable to attend the training this fine round.

whomitconcerns · 22-10-2019 10:34AM

Am I reading this right, is a once off, with 19hrs break between the shifts? I think, unless this was all the time, your making a mountain out of a molehill.

OMM 0000 · 22-10-2019 11:25AM

Even if it were legal, it just doesn't make sense.

Obviously the decision maker is a moron. How a person could think someone who just did a 9 PM - 9 AM shift should stuck around for training and a meeting until 2 PM... it boggles the mind.

But your fiancé does need to take some responsibility here. Does she need some assertiveness training? I would expect someone of a normal assertiveness level to say - "Oh I just finished a 12 hour shift and I'm back on again tonight, can someone take minutes of the meetings and send them to me? Thanks. Bye."

_Brian · 22-10-2019 11:39AM

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Even if it were legal, it just doesn't make sense.

Obviously the decision maker is a moron. How a person could think someone who just did a 9 PM - 9 AM shift should stuck around for training and a meeting until 2 PM... it boggles the mind.

But your fiancoes need to take some responsibility here. Does she need some assertiveness training? I would expect someone of a normal assertiveness level to say - "Oh I just finished a 12 hour shift and I'm back on again tonight, can someone take minutes of the meetings and send them to me? Thanks. Bye."

It’s really common in factories where floor staff do shift work for office staff to make schedules like this not realising the impact it has. It often comes as a surprise when you point it out to them.

It could be an genuine mistake,

OMM 0000 · 22-10-2019 12:19PM

_Brian wrote: »

It’s really common in factories where floor staff do shift work for office staff to make schedules like this not realising the impact it has. It often comes as a surprise when you point it out to them.

It could be an genuine mistake,

Yes, you're right, it could be a mistake.

If it happens again she needs to speak up.

OP - maybe I'm overthinking this, but is she also the type of person who wouldn't ask for a raise? Instead she waits to be given one?

If so, perhaps this can be a moment when she realises she needs to speak up if she wants or doesn't want something. She could turn this negative into a positive.

Gamer Bhoy 89 · 22-10-2019 02:29PM

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Yes, you're right, it could be a mistake.

If it happens again she needs to speak up.

OP - maybe I'm overthinking this, but is she also the type of person who wouldn't ask for a raise? Instead she waits to be given one?

If so, perhaps this can be a moment when she realises she needs to speak up if she wants or doesn't want something. She could turn this negative into a positive.

She literally is only in the job 4 weeks, with no manager - only a temporary manager.
She is a social care worker, caring for people with intellectual disabilities in residential. Her hours are usually 9am - 9pm, and sometimes 9pm - 9am. It took her 4 years of college and an honours degree (which she stands to graduate from next week) to get there. She's a level 8 and is one of the highest levels in that place.

Her temporary boss had already made an eejit out of her last week by changing her days last week from Friday, to Wednesday in which afterwards she told the boss that she had her NCT booked that day, and that it was okay to go for the NCT then come back in

On the day of the NCT, she arrived back in work and her boss said "you're gonna have to tell me about these things in advance" even though it was established already.

But I digress..

She will have done 16 hours today, then 12 hours tomorrow, then 12 hours on Thursday, then 12 hours on Saturday

That's 52 hours this week, and a further 48 next week.

Moneywise, great, but that doesn't look right to me......

Also, it doesn't seem to be a mistake, as there was another woman in that meeting/training today who did the same shift overnight, and is to do another 9pm shift tonight.

Strumms · 22-10-2019 05:44PM

Training should take place during a regular shîft, it is work. If they want to request some flexibility ok but she should be asked to start four hours later instead of four hour being tagged on to the end of her shift. Unsatisfactory that they expect an employee to put in supplementary hours to do necessary training.

Likeabossboss · 22-10-2019 05:54PM

What were the agreed hours before she started?
Is she on salary or paid hourly.

To be honest I see nothing wrong with those hours but depends on the above.

It sounds like the first job out of college which are usually ****e.

Alpha_zero · 22-10-2019 06:09PM

People who tend to have 12 hour shift work, typically are not required to attend meetings.

Strumms · 22-10-2019 06:13PM

A 16 hour shift, by the time she gets home, gets food it’s straight away bed time, she is going from bed to work to bed with zero opportunity for rest and relaxation or to enjoy life in any manner ie cinema, dinner out, just meeting friends etc... that’s not acceptable for even one day or one shift... needs to get another job....

con___manx1 · 22-10-2019 07:01PM

Legally there has to be an 11 hour gap between shifts.
If you wife crashed her car or something on the way home this company would be liable for that.

This company is leaving them selves open big time for compo.
Do they not have a health and safety department?

Be right back · 22-10-2019 07:06PM

Gamer Bhoy 89 wrote: »

My fiance got a new job recently and her hours have been... tremendous to say the least.

But today - or last night - was her first time doing an overnight shift. She did 9pm til 9am, then she was told there was training and a team meeting between 10am and 2pm.

She didn't seem too bothered by it but with the health issues I know her to have it concerned me that these people in her work don't give a flying **** what your health conditions are. Is it right to have someone do 12 hours then immediately get them to go to another 4 hours of training? If it's totally normal then I'll stand down from my annoyance at this.

But it's not sitting right with me at the minute. She will be finished at 2pm, and then she will have to try to stay awake until tonight because she's up again tomorrow morning for another 12 hour shift at 9am...

I've only ever experienced the atypical 9-5 job so this is out of my zone here and very odd to me.

Is it with an agency? I know some agencies can work like that. Doesn't make it right.

Strumms · 22-10-2019 07:33PM

con___manx1 wrote: »

Legally there has to be an 11 hour gap between shifts.
If you wife crashed her car or something on the way home this company would be liable for that.

This company is leaving them selves open big time for compo.
Do they not have a health and safety department?

I’d forgotten about that but you are indeed correct. Doesn’t matter if there is training, staff shortages, the roof blows off the warehouse. This company knows that, they are an unscrupulous sham, get her to expedite her departure. If they are going to do this it won’t be limited to once, they don’t care about the health and wellbeing of their staff now and they won’t if something happened due to fatigue ie. an accident on the way home etc..

tayto lover · 22-10-2019 07:41PM

That was actually 17 hours OP. Madness and not at all good for your health.

Fann Linn · 22-10-2019 07:44PM

Organisation of Working Time Act + Nera = Problem solved.

_Brian · 22-10-2019 07:48PM

Alpha_zero wrote: »

People who tend to have 12 hour shift work, typically are not required to attend meetings.

As a manager on shift work I was constantly attending off shift meetings.

Some tagged onto 12.5hr shifts and some between shifts. The ones between shifts I would always get off early to attend.

Hours above I always took back at 2x time in lieu, including my travel time which was often 1.5hrs each way I’m busy periods.
In lieu time always taken off night shifts.

Alpha_zero · 22-10-2019 07:51PM

_Brian wrote: »

As a manager on shift work I was constantly attending off shift meetings.

Some tagged onto 12.5hr shifts and some between shifts. The ones between shifts I would always get off early to attend.

Hours above I always took back at 2x time in lieu, including my travel time which was often 1.5hrs each way I’m busy periods.
In lieu time always taken off night shifts.

No Manager would agree to work 16 or 17 hours straight.

Mrs OBumble · 22-10-2019 10:02PM

Are these 12 hour overnight shifts awake, or is the 9pm- 9am including a sleepover. If it's sleepover, how often does she get woken?

Are the clients highly dependent, or relatively independent? This can vary a lot between houses, 12 hours in one can be 12 hours hard labour, while the next is easy as pie.

Strumms · 23-10-2019 01:20AM

Alpha_zero wrote: »

No Manager would agree to work 16 or 17 hours straight.

No manager or employee ever should agree that, you’d be a fool. All very well getting 60 grand a year, give or take, more even but if you end up in hospital with family and loved ones by your side after a heart attack or crashing the car on the way home... you won’t be thinking of the holiday that money will buy you then, the only trip is to hospital or the mortuary ...

MOH · 23-10-2019 01:30AM

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Am I reading this right, is a once off, with 19hrs break between the shifts? I think, unless this was all the time, your making a mountain out of a molehill.

You're obviously not. This is ridiculous

_Brian · 23-10-2019 07:43AM

Alpha_zero wrote: »

No Manager would agree to work 16 or 17 hours straight.

Don’t be fooling yourself, it happens. Some companies expect it.

I stayed while it suited me and bailed when the opportunity arose

Gamer Bhoy 89 · 23-10-2019 12:04PM

Be right back wrote: »

Is it with an agency? I know some agencies can work like that. Doesn't make it right.

No it's an organisation based in one city. I don't want to name the company.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Are these 12 hour overnight shifts awake, or is the 9pm- 9am including a sleepover. If it's sleepover, how often does she get woken?

Are the clients highly dependent, or relatively independent? This can vary a lot between houses, 12 hours in one can be 12 hours hard labour, while the next is easy as pie.

They're awake.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

She's being really nice about it and I don't want to push her. But I did say she should have a word with her manager about it. I also said it may or may not be of her benefit to sign up to a union and contact Citizens Advice and find out what her contract says. She's not the most outspoken person in the world, she'd be very timid that way and I don't mean that in a derogatory sense.

There was something not right about it. My optimistic side says that her temporary manager had no idea what the hours of the employees were and just tried to follow the schedule she had.

My pessimistic side says she [the temp] doesn't give a flying **** and doesn't even want to be there. I'll form my own opinion the more I hear of it.

pinkyeye · 24-10-2019 09:13PM

It could be a rare happening though? No? I agree the hours were madness but perhaps the training and meeting were a regulatory requirement coming up to an inspection or something and it had to be done?

As she wasn't in until 9am the following morning then the requirement to have 11 hours between shifts was met.

People do often work 16 hours in a row on overtime when there's a break of more than 11 hours so it's not strictly illegal.

Illegal would be more than 48 hours per week over a 16 week period.

12 hour shift, then told to do another 4 hours. Is this right?

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