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waht do u think about tells?

  • 12-08-2005 11:08am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70
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    hi this probaly has ben asked before but i was just wondering what people think of tells and how important are they?like r any good at pcking up on tells,i know its not a skill that im going to learn overnight but i`dlke to find out more about i,so anybody experianceenoug t be able to tell the hands o players bythere actions?thanx


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,533 ollyk1
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    love 'em myself :)

    I think Harrington's book has a very good comment for the beginning player on tells where he says (paraphrase)

    Don't worry about tryng to get reads on a whole table on your first night concentrate on the two players on your immediate left as they will be the blinds when you are the button and slowly expand from there. That way you aren't overwhelmed by all the tells going on. After that it gets easier with practise.

    Apart from that my two comments would be - look at your cards once and once only - learn to memorise two cards ffs.
    And secondly the eyes are interesting but watch the hand movements - great info and depending on the player can be upto 100% accurate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 70 sugardaddy
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    ok this is good stuff ,u said watch the hand movements, so what exactly should i be lookig for,like if he bluffing what way will he have his hands? and what will he be like if he i not?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,806 Lafortezza
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    If a player gives you the finger, or make the wanker sign behind your head, then he/she probably doesn't like you very much.
    There's plenty of books and websites describing various tells, both online and live. Sometimes they're true sometimes they're fake.

    Best thing to do is get more live experience and whether you're involved in a hand or not pay attention to the table, to each player, and try to figure out what his body language tells you. Does he look comfortable or nervous etc etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 Hectorjelly
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    Its much more important for beginners to learn how to play their own cards and decipher betting patterns than look for physical tells.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,922 Dave
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    I recently bough Mike Caros book of poker tells, as I've just started playing live. I've picked up alot from it, mainly tells which I give out myself (and been caught a few times), so I'm more aware of what I'm doing at the table because of it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,506 Shortstack
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    Its much more important for beginners to learn how to play their own cards and decipher betting patterns than look for physical tells.

    I agree.

    Once you have done that and start looking for tells remember that a particular 'tell' may be different from one player to another. For example some player's hands shake when they are bluffing, others when they have a big hand and others because they are cold.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,666 Imposter
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    sugardaddy wrote:
    ok this is good stuff ,u said watch the hand movements, so what exactly should i be lookig for,
    If he has his hand over the mouse then he has a good hand. Otherwise raise lots.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,323 Hitchhiker's Guide to...
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    I personally blush like a new-born baby in a sauna when i have a good hand. Just can't help it. Am always amazingly surprised when people call my bets.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,832 Waylander
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    Shortstack wrote:
    I agree.

    Once you have done that and start looking for tells remember that a particular 'tell' may be different from one player to another. For example some player's hands shake when they are bluffing, others when they have a big hand and others because they are cold.

    My hands shake cause they shake all the time. That can make people think I'm bluffing, which can be a good thing or a bad thing. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,079 smurph
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    Couple of weeks ago I was playing in the Fitzwilliam Saturday night round of each game. There was a new guy there, middle aged fella who was nervous. First time in the club, the usual, not sure of chips and values and over the line stuff. The strange thing is I thought I had a tell on him cause his hand shook when he was putting chips in if he had a good hand. No shake when on a bit of a steal. But oohh no, not as cute as I thought I was. He filled a straight flush on the river card, there was a bet into him and he raised all in. The poor f**ker who bet into him at the Ace high flush. His hand was as calm as anything. In fact he said afterwards that he got such a fright that he actually was calm. I never read him for a straight flush and the gasp at the table suggested nobody else did either.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,533 ollyk1
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    I agree HJ, that a beginning player should learn how to play their cards first, and learn to have a reason for everything they do fold/call or raise.

    There is a lot to be learned when you are not involved in a pot in really watching the players playing a pot and trying to put them on hands either from betting patterns or tells. That's why the game shouldn't be boring even when your cards are bad.

    Watching if the BB is closely protecting his cards or not and if that means anything about whether he'll call a raise or not is useful. Even if the answer is you can't draw any conclusion it's good practise and the skills you pick up do improve with practise. Is the sb looking interested? Is he feigning mucking or will he really muck? Some times a guy won't even feign interest and then you might get an oppotunity to effectively be raising a random hand in the big blinds hand with position because you know the sb isn't even contemplating completing the bet.
    If a player gives you the finger, or make the wanker sign behind your head, then he/she probably doesn't like you very much.
    There's plenty of books and websites describing various tells, both online and live. Sometimes they're true sometimes they're fake.

    :D

    I personally wasn't immediately overly impressed with Mike Caro's book but it's a decent introduction. The reason was anything you read on tells anywhere is going to take some time to be useful in your own game while you make use of it correctly yourself.

    The Mike Caro book did pay for itself in one hand with one tell on a 3 flush board. Books are a very good investment!!

    Reading tells is something that improves over time from playing with the same players and by playing live more often. Watching players when they are in times of stress such as near the bubble (if you get knocked out and you are waiting on a mate can be very interesting :p ) or even after the money has gone all-in and the cards are shown while a flop is awaited is great for helping to improve your reads for later. Nobody cares to hide their emotions when the cards are face up and therefore react naturally and you can see how that looks and sometimes pick up on it when they are in a hand against you. (That's something I do anyway some people might think it's silly :) )

    I personally know that I'm giving of some tells as well and I'm working on a few things when I play to confuse and combat that. Recently it's been a case of so far so good.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,047 Culchie
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    I'm reading his book at the moment....Surely the worst collection of photographs in history?

    I think he should consider a DVD or something to get his views across.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,393 Jaden
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    Here is my favourite read, and I think one worth sharing. Obvious as it may seem, 80% of players can't help giving this one away. I regard it as my best edge.

    It's is more effective heads up, and you only have one player to observe. As the flop comes down, a player instintively locks eyes with a card he has connected with. They might only do it for a second, and it is always unintentional. Frequently, a player will scan the flop, and then his eyes will return to the card he has connected with, moving then to a "scare" card. They tend to look that their connected card when trying to make a decision to call or bet.

    I NEVER watch a flop come down, I'm always watching the other guy. Always. Let me tell you, it's harder than you might think to do, but can give alot away if the other guy isn't wide to it.

    Try it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,882 Doc Farrell
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    Its much more important for beginners to learn how to play their own cards and decipher betting patterns than look for physical tells.

    HJ,

    write an article on betting patterns. i'm too lazy.

    go on, u know u want to!
    d.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,806 Lafortezza
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    Locked also.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,806 Lafortezza
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    Forwarded details to Admins, worst abuse soft-deleted (admins/smods can still read it). Anyone else has anything to say please pm me.

    L.


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 DeVore
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    I opened this thread up again. La Fort, we'll just clean up any crap and keep what seems to be a good conversation going.


    As for the topic, I almost never use tells. Weird, I know. But I dont seem to (though I find online play a bit freaky, like I'm missing a sense, so perhaps I do and I dont realise it.
    I look at my own cards, my plan for the hand, the bets, the information I've gotten so far and what I know about the player in question from history (another reason why I dont like online play as much as offline, I dont have a playbook on all those players).
    I look for a few tell tale signs like, do they connect the size of their bet with the size of their hand? Are they capable of betting out a flush draw? etc...

    I'm not sure but I'd say I'm also a mess of tells and my defence to that since day one has been to be a tell-seller. I sell tells to those I notice watching me. Protect my cards with a chip, look back again when I KNOW I've hit a flush on the flop etc etc.
    For me, more important than any tell I can get from my opponent is knowing how my opponent views me as a player. What will they see coming and what can I get away with? Do they think I'm a rock? Do they think I'm incapable of bluffing a big bluff? etc etc.

    I think people over rate tells. I honestly dont think you can tell if someone has scrunched up their eyes because they have a hard decision or because the chilli they had a lunch time is almost done with them. :)

    DeV.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,288 ntlbell
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    Having only played a handfull of live tourny's I haven't found "tells" very usefull, maybe I'm not good enough yet to read a player.

    I tend to concentrate on my own cards and maybe one or at the most two other players at the table, usually the person next to me.

    In the last tournament the guy beside me was fairly obviously shaking, very nervous, pulls out KK so I had him nervy when he has a solid hand, it turned out he was nervous on every single hand he played, he was just a nervous person with not much live play, but he was no mug.

    I would prefer to spend my time like you Dev "Tell-Selling" I think what people around you think of you as a player has a huge baring on the games, raises being respected etc, getting away with an agressive 72o :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,013 kincsem
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    When a player's hands shake he/she has a big hand. When they bluff they are steady. When they have a big hand their heart rate goes up (not much good unless they allow you attach a heart monitor to them).
    Margaret used to have a big smile on her face :D when she had a big hand. Everyone on the table knew except the other player in the hand who always stared at the board cards.
    I suggest (1) pick up your chips and place the bet on the table quickly, therefore no shake visable. (2) study the player not the board
    And if you get the feeling your hand might not be good enough fold it. I have often got that feeling and immediately the player to my left raised big or went all-in.
    Try to do the same thing every time. I've noticed that when I have a good hand my hsnds hover over my cards, as if to protect them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,323 Hitchhiker's Guide to...
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    DeVore wrote:
    I'm not sure but I'd say I'm also a mess of tells

    DeV.

    Was talking to someone (who shall remain anonymous) who says they beat you in a hand based on one of your tells. Want to know what it was?! You'd written an article in your blog where you described how you bet when you had this particular hand!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,806 Lafortezza
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    Dev tries to sit back and look very comfortable and he looks you in the eye when he's bluffing or is just after betting a marginal hand.
    I remember one hand in a cash game in the fitz, DeV and Player X were bantering constantly, back and forth, "You're the worst player ever..." and "STFU you baldy bas..." type of thing.

    DeV raises preflop, Player X in SB and 2 other limpers call.
    Flop comes, checked to DeV who bets all-in, Player X goes ballistic, shouting how DeV has got absolutely nothing, bluffing, etc, etc. Player X folds.

    The 2 limpers call Dev's all-in and check turn and river, DeV's AK wins the pot with A-high. I lolled. Player X didn't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,608 breadmonkey
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    I remember one hand in a cash game in the fitz, DeV and Player X were bantering constantly, back and forth, "You're the worst player ever..." and "STFU you baldy bas..." type of thing.

    Wow, do things usually get that hostile?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,806 Lafortezza
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    It's not hostile, they're just joking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,608 breadmonkey
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    Oops!


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