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Where does the sale take place?

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  • 19-05-2021 1:24pm
    #1
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭


    In the following scenario, what country's consumer protections are in place?

    I buy something from Amazon marketplace, via amazon.co.uk, where I am registered as an Irish user.
    It's a "UK only" sale, so I use AddressPal to have it forwarded to my address in Ireland.
    The item ships from China to a depot in the Netherlands, from where it's sent to the UK.

    The wrong item arrives.

    My understanding of Irish consumer law is that if the whole transaction had taken place within Ireland, the seller would be responsible for replacing the item (and arranging collection of the wrong one), no cost to the consumer - the consumer shouldn't be out of pocket at any stage.

    With so many countries in the mix in the scenario above, what's the situation? Which country's consumer protections are in place?

    I presume "not Ireland", as the item was only forwarded to Ireland at the end. I'm guessing the answer is "UK", as it's through a UK website, and the item was delivered to an address in the UK.


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    #2
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,290 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    I would think the UK. What do the website's terms and conditions say about what law applies?


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    #3
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    The seller is UK. I would assume it is their consumer protections.
    Although I am pretty sure amazon have their own as well that should sort it out for you quicker. But I am assuming you have gone that route...


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    #4
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    Victor wrote: »
    I would think the UK. What do the website's terms and conditions say about what law applies?
    Suckit wrote: »
    The seller is UK. I would assume it is their consumer protections.
    Although I am pretty sure amazon have their own as well that should sort it out for you quicker. But I am assuming you have gone that route...

    It's only a hypothetical situation.

    I received something recently and noticed the CN --> NL -> IE link, and started thinking about how AddressPal would have complicated matters if anything had been wrong.


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    #5
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,290 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    AddressPal is your private arrangement, nothing to do with Amazon or the original vendor.


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    #6
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,915 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    It's buried in the T&cs. For Amazon UK the relevant law is from Luxembourg. I'd say the Brexiters love that.

    14. APPLICABLE LAW
    These conditions are governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, and the application of the United Nations Convention of Contracts for the International Sale of Goods is expressly excluded. If you are a consumer and have your habitual residence in the EU or the UK, you additionally enjoy the protection afforded to you by mandatory provisions of 1the law of your country of residence. We both agree to submit to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of the district of Luxembourg City, which means that you may bring a claim to enforce your consumer protection rights in connection with these Conditions of Use in Luxembourg or in the EU country in which you live. If you reside in the EU, the European Commission provides for an online dispute resolution platform, which you can access here: https://ec.europa.eu/consumers/odr. If you would like to bring a matter to our attention, please contact us.

    But if the sale is only to the UK then once it's delivered to Parcel Motel Amazon's job is done. You have to return it from the UK or pay extra to return from outside the UK


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    #7
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    Del2005 wrote: »
    It's buried in the T&cs. For Amazon UK the relevant law is from Luxembourg. I'd say the Brexiters love that.




    But if the sale is only to the UK then once it's delivered to Parcel Motel Amazon's job is done. You have to return it from the UK or pay extra to return from outside the UK

    So (according to that) as a resident of Ireland, I'm protected by Irish consumer law + whatever the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg has to say about things. So in the above scenario, a reasonable outcome is that the seller would arrange collection/free post from the UK (as that's where they thought it was going), and it would be up to me to figure out how to get it to the UK.


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    #8
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Some more information here - https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/brexit/


    I guess amazon would be safe enough.
    When you shop online from a business in the EU, you have strong consumer rights under EU consumer protection legislation, including the Consumer Rights Directive (CRD). The CRD includes the right, in most cases, to cancel your order within 14 days of delivery.
    As the UK is no longer a member of the EU, we no longer share the same EU consumer protection laws as we did before Brexit. UK traders are obliged to comply with UK consumer protection laws which are currently very similar to EU laws, although they could change in the future. UK traders who sell to customers in Ireland should also comply with EU consumer protection law. However, as a consequence of Brexit, there is no easy way to enforce your consumer rights if you are dealing with a business in the UK.
    This means that if something goes wrong when you buy goods online it may be more difficult to resolve issues if you bought from a UK business. If you buy from an EU-based business you have strong consumer protections which ensure that you can enforce your rights if something does go wrong.
    If you are buying online there are some steps you can take to make sure there are no unwanted surprises:

    ....
    ..
    ..
    ....


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    #9
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,219 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Thoie wrote: »
    So (according to that) as a resident of Ireland, I'm protected by Irish consumer law + whatever the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg has to say about things. So in the above scenario, a reasonable outcome is that the seller would arrange collection/free post from the UK (as that's where they thought it was going), and it would be up to me to figure out how to get it to the UK.

    You arrange for it to be delivered to the U.K. so I cannot see that it is likely that Amazon will not assert its expectation that you are a U.K. consumer. Has AddressPal started working again? I thought all those services had been cancelled as the prospect of importation paperwork makes them unviable.


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    #10
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    Marcusm wrote: »
    Has AddressPal started working again? I thought all those services had been cancelled as the prospect of importation paperwork makes them unviable.

    AddressPal kept going throughout (but with some delays) - you now can only get things delivered to your house (instead of previous post office delivery). You have to register a payment card with them online, and the AP fee, plus any customs fees, get charged to your card before delivery.


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