Would you report a crime?

Lmklad

So, doing some research and I’m wondering, would you report a homophobia or transphobic crime to Gardai? If no, why? Or if you have already what was your experience?

lottpaul

Presuming that you mean an anti LGBT crime of some sort I think I would -- but like many other instances of criminality, it would probably depend on the location and context, my perceptions of the severity, the potential hassle involved (e.g. court time), the likelihood of a conviction etc.

Paradoxically I think I would be quicker to report a crime if a person other than myself was the victim - not logical but true nonetheless.

Thankfully I've never had cause to make such a report so I have no actual experiences to relate or base my response on.

Lmklad

Thanks Lottpaul. Yeh I was referring to an anti LGBT+ crime specifically. Garda management rely on statistics and the LGBT community seem to be under represented in crime stats which means either the crime isn’t happening (best case) or crime is going unreported.

Heebie

Hell yes, and I'd keep on them and the persecutor's office to prosecute.

koumi

Hi, yes and I did. Not sure I can discuss it here but I spoke with victim support unit and gave them all the details. Spent two hours in an interview room with a garda giving statement. It involved work place stuff and it was like fighting a monster. Not really sure I should say anymore as it's an ongoing thing. (bout three years now)

Tenigate

Lmklad wrote: »

So, doing some research and I’m wondering, would you report a homophobia or transphobic crime to Gardai? If no, why? Or if you have already what was your experience?

Depends on the "crime".

Assault and battery. Absolutely.

Thought crimes .. ABSOLUTELY NOT! E.g. https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/923400/mermaids-charity-teacher-misgendering-pupil-hate-crime

koumi

I believe the op was referring to crime without the quotation marks, like abuse, harassment, intimidation, threats, assault, discrimination, the kind of actual crimes which constitute an offense and are punishable by law. In particular the ope was referring to such acts which are homophobic or transphobic motivated.
Most work places have policies to protect people from such events and in cases where a crime has been committed can lead to prosecutions.


(as an aside, I went back to college to study law as a result of my experience so at least something good came of it all)

Lmklad

Thanks for the info so far lads

lottpaul

koumi wrote: »

I believe the op was referring to crime without the quotation marks, like abuse, harassment, intimidation, threats, assault, discrimination, the kind of actual crimes which constitute an offense and are punishable by law. In particular the ope was referring to such acts which are homophobic or transphobic motivated.

Is there a good link/source for what constitutes a crime in such situations? I know there are always grey areas and presumably we'd all be clear on the physical, intimidation etc, but when does e.g. something shouted across the street become an offence/crime? Does it depend on the opinion of the Garda and then the judge?
I'm genuinely unsure and that uncertainty is probably one of the factors that might make me hesitate about reporting something; e.g. is discrimination in the workplace an offence that would be dealt with by tribunals rather than the courts but intimidation at work would be a criminal offence?? Apologies if this is already covered somewhere else but I started googling and became even more confused.

Lmklad

I’m referring specifically to criminal offences that Gardai would investigate, for example, the Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act, the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act (ie assault) and the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act (ie Sec 6, threatening, abusive, insulting words or behaviour) but also the Criminal Damage Act. Basically criminal law only, employment law is civil law which the Gardai do not deal with.

koumi

lottpaul wrote: »

Is there a good link/source for what constitutes a crime in such situations? I know there are always grey areas and presumably we'd all be clear on the physical, intimidation etc, but when does e.g. something shouted across the street become an offence/crime? Does it depend on the opinion of the Garda and then the judge?
I'm genuinely unsure and that uncertainty is probably one of the factors that might make me hesitate about reporting something; e.g. is discrimination in the workplace an offence that would be dealt with by tribunals rather than the courts but intimidation at work would be a criminal offence?? Apologies if this is already covered somewhere else but I started googling and became even more confused.

yeah, civil and criminal. I was just referring to my specific circumstances in terms of work which would be covered under Employment Equality Acts 1998-2015, harassment intimidation threats of violence all forms of bullying covered under Health and Welfare at Work Act 2005 which in many cases result in dignity at work policies and charters and all of which would be brought to Workplace relations committee or civil court.

Lmklad has outlined criminal law in the post above and one does not preclude the other.

Most cases are based on evidence and testimony I'm guessing, and most people wouldn't be too charged up to report a random stranger passing remark, it's when those conditions are a regular occurrence (targeted and sustained by an individual) or affecting your life to the point being detrimental then the issue is more likely to need resolving.

koumi

also, should probably add that one of the benefits of Brexit is the number of UK based solicitors registering here in Ireland, where a lot of the time Irish law firms are reluctant to initiate proceedings, UK solicitors are usually much more happy to oblige. I think it will be a good thing for Ireland in these terms, so long as there law there to be upheld hopefully it will bring a breakthrough in those actually capable of doing so. I suspect a lot more of these cases will become apparent in the near future.

wakka12

If somebody badly physically assaulted me I would report it , but I don't know if Id mention the fact they did because I was gay

Bob_Marley

I'd be vary weary of reporting anything to the Gardai in Ireland, they usually turn on the people who report anything, it saves them having to do any hard work by tackling actual criminals. If it does ever see court, it will be years later, and there will be little or no sentence handed out, but the victim will spend years being interrogated.

Lmklad

Bob_Marley wrote: »

I'd be vary weary of reporting anything to the Gardai in Ireland, they usually turn on the people who report anything, it saves them having to do any hard work by tackling actual criminals.

Thanks Bob. Any particular reason you wouldn’t mention orientation?

Bob_Marley

Lmklad wrote: »

Thanks Bob. Any particular reason you wouldn’t mention orientation?

The guards will use anything they can against you, they don't care what it is. They'll find something.

Lmklad

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Lmklad wrote: »

Thanks Bob. Any particular reason you wouldn’t mention orientation?

The guards will use anything they can against you, they don't care what it is. They'll find something.

Not sure I understand. Are you saying that if you were a victim of an assault which happened because you are gay that you wouldn’t tell the Gardai you were gay because they could use it against you? Even though you are the victim?

Bob_Marley

Lmklad wrote: »

Not sure I understand. Are you saying that if you were a victim of an assault which happened because you are gay that you wouldn’t tell the Gardai you were gay because they could use it against you? Even though you are the victim?

No i'd say you'd have much better chance of getting something done if you said you were gay, as they are all into the pr, but they will find something else instead to go after you with, as it's easier than going after criminals.

Lmklad

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Lmklad wrote: »

Not sure I understand. Are you saying that if you were a victim of an assault which happened because you are gay that you wouldn’t tell the Gardai you were gay because they could use it against you? Even though you are the victim?

No i'd say you'd have much better chance of getting something done if you said you were gay, as they are all into the pr, but they will find something else instead to go after you with, as it's easier than going after criminals.

Oh. That is difficult to understand, that you would hesitate to report a crime as you think they might turn against you, the victim. Have to say I’ve never heard of that happening before.

Bob_Marley

Lmklad wrote: »

Oh. That is difficult to understand, that you would hesitate to report a crime as you think they might turn against you, the victim. Have to say I’ve never heard of that happening before.

You have to remember in the cops eyes, you are the one causing the cops work, and effecting their crime stats, not the criminal. The Guards involved will have to leave a warm cosy station, and their card game / tv show / snack box / side business / funny stories aside, and will definitely have a load of extra paperwork and work to do, and will have to speak to and involve their even worse 'superiors' who they can't stand (and who don't take kindly to being disturbed either). So unless you have all your ducks all in row, they will find an excuse not to pursue it, and the easiest excuse will involve you.

Ten of Swords

wakka12 wrote: »

I don't know if Id mention the fact they did because I was gay

I'm curious why? If you knew, or strongly suspected, that was the sole motivating factor would it make a difference.

Lmklad you asked this before a couple of years ago and my outlook hasn't really changed, it's a sliding scale for me if I was the victim and if I was a witness I'd respect the wishes of the victim regarding reporting etc.

It is a shame that once GLEN got wound up their stophatecrime.ie service was not picked up by anyone else as it allowed people to record homophobic incidents both serious and minor without involving Gardai if that was their wish

Lmklad

Agreed Swords. I’m curious to see if there has been much change since I last asked.

Thanks for your contribution Bob.

JackTaylorFan

I have reported threats of violence and verbal abuse from people in my area to the Gardai, to be recorded for the statisticians of the future or whatever. Asked if I would like to pursue the matter further, I declined as everybody knows who I am in the area and getting the Guards visibly involved would only escalate the level of abuse I already receive from this group of people - thus making my life here a living hell.