Confused

LegacyUser

I'm really hoping someone can advise me. This will be a long post so please be prepared! I am a regular poster but going anonymous for obvious reasons.

I have been separated from my child's father (she's 16) for a number of years and am now married to someone else a long time now.

Up until I was told something which I will elaborate on next I was good friends with my ex and his partner, we even went on a couple of family holidays together, spent Xmas together once or twice and were generally good friends.

However all this changed a few months ago, when he asked to meet me. He informed me that I was going to get a visit from the Gardai as he had been caught with child pornography a few months previous, had attempted to commit suicide and had been in hospital for 2 weeks. I'm unsure in what order this happened but I think he was 'caught' first.

At that moment I felt my whole world fall apart, my life as I knew had disappeared alongside the father of my child that I had loved at one point and then trusted as a friend, I had a long road ahead of me, for which thankfully I had my fantastic husband and parents to support me.

My ex assured me that he had never ever done anything to our daughter, his words 'it was *only* boys I looked at', and while I did believe him I still felt sick to the pit of my stomach, I also felt very deceived as this had happened months ago and nobody thought to tell me, including his sister who I was friends with. I was only told because the Guards had called him the night before demanding my phone number and address, so he told me in a blind panic.

The Guards never called me but 2/3 months later a Social worker from An Tusla arrived at our door and spoke with my husband and I. He was fairly confident that my daughter was safe and had not been involved, and we all felt it wasn't a great idea to tell her and that stage , I felt and still do that I need to protect her from this horrific situation.

Right now I just can't seem to forget and move on, it hasn't gone to court yet, so I know it's only time when it possibly will, but I'm not privy to when or even if this will happen.
My daughter still sees her father, and is aware that something is going on, like a silly row that 'Mum probably caused', and that's the way I'd like to keep it, but I know that's more than likely impossible, I also know that she wouldn't be able to handle this..

Anyway I'm really sorry for such a long post, and if you managed to get this far then thank you, I don't even know what advice I'm looking for to be honest..

Ursus Horribilis

The only piece of advice I'll give you is to tell your daughter as soon as possible. She's going to be devastated but if she finds out you've all been lying to her, it'll make things worse. I appreciate that this is a horrific time for you all and it's not something that'll happen to most of us. She is 16 though, old enough to understand what's happening and able to make decisions. I understand why you're trying to protect her but it's likely to backfire on you. She's going to find out sooner or later. And when the inevitable questions start being asked, you may find it hard to justify why you hid the truth from her.

It's ironic that you feel deceived because nobody told you about this months ago. Yet here you are doing the very same thing to your daughter. Why do you think she'll not be equally shaken by the people around her being less than truthful?

Hopefully your ex didn't interfere with your daughter but how can you be sure you're right. You knew him all these years and you never had an inkling he was a paedophile, did you? You're effectively making decisions for her. Maybe she won't want to have anything to do with her father once she finds out but that's her decision to make.

PucaMama

To be honest I'd be keeping him away from the daughter until you know everything. He has been caught with child porn. He is a pedophile.

Loveinapril

Oh you poor thing, I can't imagine how difficult this must be for you. I completely agree with the other posters- Ursus makes a great point regarding honesty and telling your daughter ASAP. She will have her own feelings on this and it is completely unfair that she is still seeing him while not knowing who he truly is. She is old enough to make her own mind up but please do tell her. She deserves to find out in a safe protected way where you can help and support her. Imagine she found out through a Garda visit or overhearing something? Your relationship would be damaged (as well as the one with her dad). I would also have the details of a counsellor ready to go. You could all do with a session or two.

In relation to what Puca says, I truly hope the access visits are supervised.

eviltwin

Went through this with a family member so you have my sympathy. You have to talk to your daughter first off before she finds out from someone else. Be as honest as you can. Tbh I wouldn't ban her from contact with him outright, I'd try and organise supervised visits firsts but I'd tell her first and she how she feels about it. I'd also recommend counselling, something like this is akin to an atomic bomb going off in your family and you will need support especially if it becomes public knowledge or he ends up in prison.

Airyfairy12

If it was me I don't think id be telling her all the details until she's a little bit older to really understand and deal with the situation, he's her dad who she adores so this information will be devastating for her and extremely hard to take in. It was hard for everyone i'm sure but it will be doubly hard for her, given that he's her dad, in her eyes can probably do no wrong. 16 might seem mature but it really isnt, teenagers aren't emotionally mature enough to properly handle trauma or devastating events.
Could you speak with a counselor or childrens psychologist to see what they'd advise? They could give you some coping skills and advice on how to deal with your daughter through this and whether or not you should tell her yet and when you do eventually tell her how you go about it.

eviltwin

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

If it was me I don't think id be telling her all the details until she's a little bit older to really understand and deal with the situation, he's her dad who she adores so this information will be devastating for her and extremely hard to take in. It was hard for everyone i'm sure but it will be doubly hard for her, given that he's her dad, in her eyes can probably do no wrong. 16 might seem mature but it really isnt, teenagers aren't emotionally mature enough to properly handle trauma or devastating events.
Could you speak with a counselor or childrens psychologist to see what they'd advise? They could give you some coping skills and advice on how to deal with your daughter through this and whether or not you should tell her yet and when you do eventually tell her how you go about it.

You under estimate teenagers. She doesn't need to know the details but she needs to know what has happened. In our case we had a 12 yr old at the time and we eventually had to tell her because it ended up in the papers and everyone knew. I couldn't risk another kid telling her that her uncle was a paedo and she was clueless. I know telling her was the right thing to do but we didn't go into the disgusting details and still haven't.

OP if you google Children at Risk Ireland they have a helpline you get advice from.

Airyfairy12

eviltwin wrote: »

You under estimate teenagers. She doesn't need to know the details but she needs to know what has happened. In our case we had a 12 yr old at the time and we eventually had to tell her because it ended up in the papers and everyone knew. I couldn't risk another kid telling her that her uncle was a paedo and she was clueless. I know telling her was the right thing to do but we didn't go into the disgusting details and still haven't.

OP if you google Children at Risk Ireland they have a helpline you get advice from.

If it was her uncle id see less of a problem in telling her, the fact that its her dad makes the situation totally different as it will be a massive blow to her, It might not get in the papers, if he's never acted on his twisted urges then chances are it wont be made public.

Anyway I dont think its up to us whether she should tell her or not, I really think its something she needs to speak to a professional about who has experiance with these types of issues.

Loveinapril

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

If it was me I don't think id be telling her all the details until she's a little bit older to really understand and deal with the situation, he's her dad who she adores so this information will be devastating for her and extremely hard to take in. It was hard for everyone i'm sure but it will be doubly hard for her, given that he's her dad, in her eyes can probably do no wrong. 16 might seem mature but it really isnt, teenagers aren't emotionally mature enough to properly handle trauma or devastating events.

I completely disagree. The daughter has an absolute right to know what's going on. This affects her too. She doesn't have to be given all the details to start with, but as time goes on she may ask more details which she should be given. She will certainly understand the gravity of the crime her father has committed and I agree that she will struggle with dealing with the emotions of it all but who wouldn't?! This is life changing stuff. It is so important to manage it correctly from the start, meaning honesty, openness and family therapy. These are the things that will help her process it.

eviltwin

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

If it was her uncle id see less of a problem in telling her, the fact that its her dad makes the situation totally different as it will be a massive blow to her, It might not get in the papers, if he's never acted on his twisted urges then chances are it wont be made public.

Anyway I dont think its up to us whether she should tell her or not, I really think its something she needs to speak to a professional about who has experiance with these types of issues.

The fact it's her dad is more of a reason to tell her imo. There is no way to keep a lid on this. Every thing has changed and at 16 the daughter will pick up on it and what does the OP do then......lie? This poor girl has already had her trust shattered by one parent and will have to process that, she needs to have at least one parent who is completely trust worthy and honest with her.

LegacyUser

Thank you for all the replies so far, and I'm sorry for my delay, I'm doing this on my phone which makes it awkward to reply anonymously.

I've read all the replies over and over again. So I will try to address as many as possible.

I agree with many posters saying my daughter should be told to a certain extent but I have some reservations. When the Social Worker came to our door, I really wasn't prepared for him as I had been given no advance warning.
Anyway his advice was to not tell her, that she really didn't need to know, and that unless it was going to go to court, which he said could take years then to leave it. I didn't particularly agree, but at the same time I know how badly my daughter will take this as she idolises him. The social worker also encouraged us to allow her to still go up to him as she previously did, as it 'was obvious nothing had happened to her', that they didn't think he had acted on these urges.

I felt and still do that he was a bit relaxed about the whole situation.
I still don't know when or if this will go to court, as I'm not entitled to be told, which is wrong I feel.

ivytwine

This is Ireland so even if he's not named in the paper, (which he would be?) people are going to put two and two together, and figure out who it is. The OP, her husband, Tusla, the gardai and the ex's own family (I assume) all know. This will definitely be gossiped about and it will get back to the daughter.

OP I can only imagine what you're going through, this man was your friend and the father of your child, but your daughter must be told- by you.

Big Bag of Chips

Could you contact Tusla again to get advice. Your daughter does need to know before she finds out elsewhere, but the second she is told, that's it. She knows and her whole life will change. So you need to handle it appropriately and you need to be prepared for any questions she'll have. She'll be upset, angry, devastated, disgusted and her relationship with her dad will be changed forever. If it's not in the public domain yet, then she's unlikely to hear from the neighbours, so it mightn't necessarily be a priority to tell her, just yet. You could ask your ex to tell you when he gets a court date as once it goes to court it is likely to be reported. If you are not going to give her specific details, then you don't need to tell her the specifics of how long you've known either.

It's not going to be as simple as telling her and that being that. You know yourself from your own reaction that this will affect her for a long time.

Talk to someone, be it in Tusla, or maybe a psychologist, through her school? I don't know, but get advice from somewhere. It's going to be devastating for her whenever she's told, but if there is some way of minimising the devastation then you should do it.

Loveinapril

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Talk to someone, be it in Tusla, or maybe a psychologist, through her school? I don't know, but get advice from somewhere. It's going to be devastating for her whenever she's told, but if there is some way of minimising the devastation then you should do it.

I think this is important. The social worker gave what I presume was his opinion and it could be very damaging to your daughter in the longrun. I have worked with vulnerable teenagers for over ten years (in care) and I have seen the fallout of them finding out traumatic family stories later in their childhood and it does such damage. If you speak to any therapist, I would be about 99% sure that you would be told to share this with your daughter. You say she idolises her dad, but how do you think this will impact her when you allowed her to idolise him knowing what he has done? Contact a counsellor yourself to organise your own thoughts and get advice on how to inform your daughter. She really deserves to know, especially seen as she spends time with him.

Johnson_76

To be honest I would take whatever Tusla say with a pinch of salt. They learn how to be a social worker in college, this is rea life stuff. Only you can make the decision.

LegacyUser

Loveinapril wrote: »

I think this is important. The social worker gave what I presume was his opinion and it could be very damaging to your daughter in the longrun. I have worked with vulnerable teenagers for over ten years (in care) and I have seen the fallout of them finding out traumatic family stories later in their childhood and it does such damage. If you speak to any therapist, I would be about 99% sure that you would be told to share this with your daughter. You say she idolises her dad, but how do you think this will impact her when you allowed her to idolise him knowing what he has done? Contact a counsellor yourself to organise your own thoughts and get advice on how to inform your daughter. She really deserves to know, especially seen as she spends time with him.

Thanks again for your reply loveinapril. There is one thing that has resonated with me, a poster pointed out that I felt deceived for only being told because the Guards has asked for my address etc, that's made me think. <SNIP>

Ursus Horribilis

I'd definitely seek a second opinion about what to do and not from someone working for Tusla. I don't want to put words into the social worker's mouth but I get the feeling he was working off his own agenda. Maybe myself and the other "tell her" people are completely wrong but I can't see how you can keep this from your daughter. These sorts of situations have a way of coming out into the open one way or another. Put yourself into your daughter's shoes and try to imagine how she'd feel if she finds out that she has been deliberately kept in the dark. That has the potential to be equally as explosive as the news that her dad is a nonce. When she finds out, the poor girl is going to need somebody in her life to turn to. If she knows that you and and her stepdad and her aunts and uncles have been keeping quiet, where does she go next?

retro:electro

I can't understand why you were told to keep this from your daughter. I've social workers in my family and am keen to be one myself in the future and any training I've had about these kinds of scenarios would always involve you being as honest as is age appropriate for the child. Definitely look for a second opinion. I'd actually have concerns about what that social worker said to you, including to "keep sending her to him as it's obvious nothing has happened to her". So unprofessional. Her father is a paedophile and all access should be put on hold/restricted/supervised for the time being as there is an immediate risk for her welfare.

Ursus Horribilis

anna080 wrote: »

I'd actually have concerns about what that social worker said to you, including to "keep sending her to him as it's obvious nothing has happened to her". So unprofessional.

Social workers don't always get it right. As with any profession, you're going to get ones who aren't as good at their jobs as they should be. Or ones who are trying not to heap extra work onto their shoulders. This guy may have been thinking if he keeps his mouth shut he doesn't have to do much more about this case. It's gone on into the legal system, your daughter is safe and if she doesn't find out, nobody's going to come back knocking on his door.

seenitall

How is it that this social worker is so sure nothing untoward happened to your daughter..? Surely, the only way he could have even an approximation of certainty about that is if he asked her and was told it by herself..?! (In which case, she already knows something's badly wrong)

Something doesn't add up here.

Loveinapril

seenitall wrote: »

How is it that this social worker is so sure nothing untoward happened to your daughter..? Surely, the only way he could have even an approximation of certainty about that is if he asked her and was told it by herself..?! (In which case, she already knows something's badly wrong)

Something doesn't add up here.

Yeah the social worker most definitely made a mistake here. The welfare of the child is the most important thing and unless they assessed the situation, they cannot know that she has not been impacted by her dad's behaviour (even in the form of him sharing pictures of her with people like him in return for the photos he wanted). There should have been a risk assessment done and the man should not be allowed around children unsupervised, related or not. I understand that he hasn't been charged but he admitted to it- the people who know this should be protecting the children around them.

Snugglebunnies

It's shocking his family knew and did nothing to protect your daughter! I would be extremely angry if that info. Was kept from me.

I also think you need to take professional advice from the likes of barnardos before you speak to your daughter. She needs to know.

LegacyUser

OP here. Thank you again for the replies. They have given me much food for thought.
I intend on making a few phone calls this week to a couple of the agencies mentioned, I'm unsure if I will call Tusla as I'm thinking they will possibly cover each other's back so to speak, but I will see.

I'm not defending the Social Worker that we dealt with, but I think he was basing a lot of his assumptions on the fact that the person in question was caught with male child porn, but as someone pointed out he could have been swapping pics of my daughter, I honesyly never even considered that, I really didn't and the thought of it has made me sick to the stomach obviously. I do think in hindsight that the Social Worker gave his opinion more than facts, and I've one or two reasons to think that but can't go into that here without running the risk of identifying my ex.

I am deeply hurt that his sister did not do anything when she was told about this, to try and tell me and push him into telling me, she has young children and less than 3 months after all this went on holiday with him, her children and their partners. I see the irony that I'm hurt over her not telling me, and here I am not telling my daughter, all I can say is I was trying to protect her, but may have done the opposite and for that I will have to live with for the rest of my life.

sadie06

I honesty cannot believe that the Social Worker gave such bad advice. What is currently being denied to your daughter is choice. Given the facts, she may not want to spend any time around her father, and she will blame you for any time she has spent with him subsequent to you finding out about his abhorrent predilections.

I'm sorry, but you also must consider your daughter's safety. Your ex is under a huge amount of pressure, and has already attempted suicide. It is a fact that the exposition of lies, the revealing of an awful secret or imminent falling-off-a-pedestal are triggers in murder-suicide scenarios.

Tell your daughter, and seek professional support for her and you. She should not currently be spending any time with her father as he is under about as much pressure as a human being can experience and may be a danger to himself and others. She can decide herself what she wants to do in the future.

Be brave!

LegacyUser

Op here again. Just a quick update. I called Tusla yesterday and spoke with a different social worker. I have to call the Tusla in the county that the person in question lives in, not my own one (even though the Social Worker that visited me was from my county). She also has suggested I call the Guard that's investigating the case to try and get more information.
In addition to this, she is going to find me a professional to talk to in preparation of telling my daughter.
I want to thank everyone that has taken their time to give me advice and in turn realise that I have to tell my daughter this. If anyone else has any further advice/experience of this I'd appreciate that too.