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Solar panels - worth it?

  • 15-09-2014 1:12am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,616
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    Sorry if it's been done to death, the solar thermal/PV debate seems to have eased down in recent years and most of the Boards threads I've found are a bit old.

    We live in a bungalow, about 180 sq metres. My average electricity bill is about €150 every 2 months. A little higher in the winter and a little lower in the summer of course. We go through about 2000-2500 litres of heating oil per year. That is to heat the house, and provide hot water. So the average annual costs for heat/hot water and electricity would be approximately €2100 and €900.

    It's just my wife and I in the house, no children and none coming. We both work, so it's evening and weekend that get the most use, not sure if that matters in terms of usage etc. The house is in (not so) sunny Donegal.

    I will have the money within the next year for some home improvements, and I'm thinking of increasing the insulation in the walls and roofspace, and possibly installing solar panels. My garage is north/south facing, and the house east/west.

    I'm just wondering how likely it is to be worth while in the long run. From reading up, (although I haven't had any quotes/surveys yet) it seems that installation costs will be in the region of €10-12k. I'm just trying to figure out how long it would take to recoup that cost in order to figure out if it's worth the investment, and bearing in mind also that the heating costs will hopefully reduce a little with the impending improvements to the house insulation.

    We are highly unlikely to ever move house again so any effect on house valuation or resale etc is irrelevant. We are both in our 30s so hopefully will be around for another while ourselves too!

    Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,616 DrPhilG
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    For example (and I know this is an older article, 2008 and UK based), it states here that solar panels are unlikely to pay for themselves inside 100 years! While improved insulation will pay for itself in 3-5 years.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/solar-panels-take-100-years-to-pay-back-installation-costs-917202.html

    I'd rather save the €10k plus if it's going to take a lifetime to see any real benefit.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Macha
    Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Moved - more likely to get an answer from this forum.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,616 DrPhilG
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    Macha wrote: »
    more likely to get an answer.

    Or not, lol!

    I'm leaning towards a no vote at the minute. Because my energy bills aren't that bad, I'd be looking at a pretty lengthy time before I would recover my investment, and then there's the question of maintenance/replacement costs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,736 ch750536
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    I did this earlier in the year.

    tldr;

    A 4k investment now returns 8k over 25 years, roughly 4.3% return PA - pretty poor.

    Better insulation, better boiler, wood burning stove with back boiler etc all offer a much better return.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 109 Skybox
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    Insulation work is definitely the way to go. We got the inside of our house drylined with insulation slabs and skimmed over. Cost about €3k but you can feel the difference in the house. Get that done, some insulation in the attic and you will notice a huge difference. Check out the SEAI website as there are/were grants available to assist with the home improvements in this area.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,616 DrPhilG
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    Skybox wrote: »
    Insulation work is definitely the way to go. We got the inside of our house drylined with insulation slabs and skimmed over.

    Excuse my stupidity, but what does that involve?

    My understanding of it is essentially adding another layer inside the house? Which would mean complete redecoration and replacement/relaying of skirting & architrave?

    Might do that in stages. Bought the house as a stripped down mess and had to redecorate every room. Didn't have the money to do the major insulation work then sadly, would have been the ideal time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,113 freddyuk
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    ch750536 wrote: »
    I did this earlier in the year.

    tldr;

    A 4k investment now returns 8k over 25 years, roughly 4.3% return PA - pretty poor.

    Better insulation, better boiler, wood burning stove with back boiler etc all offer a much better return.

    Could you do the forecast at 8% energy inflation? (I think I asked that before)
    Also if you have invested in renewable energy you will use less energy overall thus reducing your import cost and increase your net metering income.(which is simply a bonus not a reason to invest) Hard to factor in but it needs to be considered.
    A 4.3% return against any savings instruments is pretty good? If inflation kicks in then your energy costs will rise in line and benefits will increase accordingly. Savings investment returns will increase but sadly lag behind unless you take a higher risk. There is no risk in investing in solar energy as it is a calculated average input based on known data which needs to have replacement inverter factored in. Buy one now!!
    If new technology springs up to radically improve returns the the cost will rise accordingly. If you have the space invest now as boom and bust will not go away.
    We do not control the price of oil or gas which is owned by others and politically priced - but no one yet owns the sun.
    BTW I agree with getting insulation and a WBS as a priority which only makes any investment in renewable energy more effective. It really focuses you on what you are using and why. More effort but under your control.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 109 Skybox
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    DrPhilG wrote: »
    Excuse my stupidity, but what does that involve?

    My understanding of it is essentially adding another layer inside the house? Which would mean complete redecoration and replacement/relaying of skirting & architrave?

    Might do that in stages. Bought the house as a stripped down mess and had to redecorate every room. Didn't have the money to do the major insulation work then sadly, would have been the ideal time.

    We actually did it in stages too. Did pretty much what you did. Bought the house and the whole lot had to be redecorated so decided to do the insulation, etc at the same time. It's an old house (over 100 years old). Did the kitchen first, ripped out the old one, insulated the walls and put a new kitchen in. Did the front of the house and the upstairs at later dates. (It's a terraced house)

    If you have redecorated the inside of the house already, may be worth considering external dry lining which is essentially adding another layer to the outside of the house.

    See grants available from seai:

    Insulation Attic Insulation €200
    Wall Insulation - Cavity €250
    Wall Insulation - Internal Dry Lining
    Apartment (any) OR Mid- terrace House €900
    Semi-detached or End of Terrace €1,350
    Detached House €1,800
    Wall Insulation - External
    Apartment (any) OR Mid- terrace House €1,800
    Semi-detached or End of Terrace €2,700
    Detached House €3,600

    Heating System Heating Controls with Boiler (Oil or Gas) Upgrade. €560
    Heating Controls Upgrade only €400
    Solar Heating €800
    Building Energy Rating (BER) €50

    The following should be noted:
    - Cash grants are a set value based on 30% of average cost of works. If expenditure is below this set value, only the actual expenditure will be reimbursed.
    - Minimum grant application amount is €400.
    - A Building Energy Rating (BER) must be undertaken on the home after grant aided works have been completed. A homeowner is entitled to BER funding of €50 once per home.
    - A SEAI registered contractor must be used to install grant aided measures.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,616 DrPhilG
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    Already painted the whole exterior too... Lol

    The wife has been on about exterior insulation but I was under the impression that it's hugely expensive.

    It's a bungalow which probably makes life easier, but what it lacks in height it makes up for in length.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 109 Skybox
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    I don't know about hugely expensive. Judging by the grants, it looks like it could be. prob cheaper to repaint the outside, than do everything on the inside, particularly if you need to take out kitchens etc and refit afterwards! Have a look at the website and get one of the approved contractors out to take a look and give you a quote for both

    Do the quick easy fixes yourself first; insulate the attic; put in draft excluders.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 109 Skybox
    ✭✭


    I don't know about hugely expensive. Judging by the grants, it looks like it could be. prob cheaper to repaint the outside, than do everything on the inside, particularly if you need to take out kitchens etc and refit afterwards! Have a look at the website and get one of the approved contractors out to take a look and give you a quote for both

    Do the quick easy fixes yourself first; insulate the attic; put in draft excluders.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,736 ch750536
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    freddyuk wrote: »
    Could you do the forecast at 8% energy inflation? (I think I asked that before)
    Also if you have invested in renewable energy you will use less energy overall thus reducing your import cost and increase your net metering income.(which is simply a bonus not a reason to invest) Hard to factor in but it needs to be considered.
    A 4.3% return against any savings instruments is pretty good? If inflation kicks in then your energy costs will rise in line and benefits will increase accordingly. Savings investment returns will increase but sadly lag behind unless you take a higher risk. There is no risk in investing in solar energy as it is a calculated average input based on known data which needs to have replacement inverter factored in. Buy one now!!
    If new technology springs up to radically improve returns the the cost will rise accordingly. If you have the space invest now as boom and bust will not go away.
    We do not control the price of oil or gas which is owned by others and politically priced - but no one yet owns the sun.
    BTW I agree with getting insulation and a WBS as a priority which only makes any investment in renewable energy more effective. It really focuses you on what you are using and why. More effort but under your control.

    Inflation at 8%

    322569.PNG


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,838 Markcheese
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    You could stick up solar hot water panels, only any good in spring summer but still a lot cheaper than PV panels..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 quentingargan
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    Markcheese wrote: »
    You could stick up solar hot water panels, only any good in spring summer but still a lot cheaper than PV panels..
    Actually prices on PV have fallen, so that is disputable. I would think that watt for watt, thermal is cheaper, but in terms of return on investment, with water charges, maintenance etc., PV might now have the edge.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 2026


    No mention of heat pumps?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 envaction


    I think that they would be worth it. I know that a lot of the people where my parents live have them now. My parents will be selling their house soon, so they won't get them because they won't see the pay out. If they did, then they said that they would have gotten them. But, in the long run I do think they are worth it especially since you will see a good payoff from them.


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