Is it legal?

Ichabod Chrane

First of all, hello to all, and being a Kerry man, my first post is a question. Is it lawful to be held in a cell without charge with both hands behind your back, palms facing outward, for a period of 4h approx? Being absolutely new to our "Justice System", I am in unfamiliar territory.I would also add that the cuffs were so tight that the right hand was swollen when finally cuffs were removed.

Timfy

I am not a lawyer and I don't think that out and out advice is allowed here but...

It's my understanding that a person can be restrained using minimum force indefinitely if they are considered to be a danger to themselves or those around them. On saying that 4 hours seems extreme for cuffs and I would have thought that they should have been checked on a regular basis to ensure that there were no injuries / medical issues.

MarkR

This may help.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/arrests/

foggy_lad

I would've thought that cuffs or other restraints should be removed once a person or prisoner is placed into a cell.

Little CuChulainn

foggy_lad wrote: »

I would've thought that cuffs or other restraints should be removed once a person or prisoner is placed into a cell.

Generally they would be removed. However if the prisoner is overly violent or uncooperative the Gardaí won't endanger themselves by trying to remove them. It's also worth noting that prisoners would generally be cuffed behind their back so if they cuffs are to the front the probably did that themselves by stepping over the cuffs which would be a clear indicator that their behaviour was one of the above.

As to the ops question, you can be held and released pending summons, fixed charged penalty, adult caution or file to d.p.p. The time you're kept depends on why you were arrested and the state you were in.

Ichabod Chrane

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Generally they would be removed. However if the prisoner is overly violent or uncooperative the Gardaí won't endanger themselves by trying to remove them. It's also worth noting that prisoners would generally be cuffed behind their back so if they cuffs are to the front the probably did that themselves by stepping over the cuffs which would be a clear indicator that their behaviour was one of the above.

As to the ops question, you can be held and released pending summons, fixed charged penalty, adult caution or file to d.p.p. The time you're kept depends on why you were arrested and the state you were in.

Non violent "prisoner", wearing only boxers and thin T shirt. No reason given for detention, no charges pending. No caution given at any time, dehydrated, onset of Hypothermia, teased with water. Held for a total of 5 hours, 4 in cuffs, injuries noted by Doctor on following day.

Little CuChulainn

Ichabod Chrane wrote: »

Non violent "prisoner", wearing only boxers and thin T shirt. No reason given for detention, no charges pending. No caution given at any time, dehydrated, onset of Hypothermia, teased with water. Held for a total of 5 hours, 4 in cuffs, injuries noted by Doctor on following day.

It's standard to remove any clothing that can be used as a ligature. Sometimes this has to be done by force. There is a reason for the detention recorded in the custody record. Again, if the prisoner is violent they will be brought straight to the cell and won't see this. They can always go back to the station and ask why they were arrested. You don't get hypothermia or dehydration from sitting in a cell for five hours. You're more likely to get it from being pissed drunk lying on the road. Marks from handcuffs are usual. They aren't designed for comfort. Marks are much more prevalent in people who struggle to get out of them.

Everything you have said so far is par for the course for a very drunk and violent prisoner. But if it isn't the case then a complaint can be made to GSOC.

Ichabod Chrane

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's standard to remove any clothing that can be used as a ligature. Sometimes this has to be done by force. There is a reason for the detention recorded in the custody record. Again, if the prisoner is violent they will be brought straight to the cell and won't see this. They can always go back to the station and ask why they were arrested. You don't get hypothermia or dehydration from sitting in a cell for five hours. You're more likely to get it from being pissed drunk lying on the road. Marks from handcuffs are usual. They aren't designed for comfort. Marks are much more prevalent in people who struggle to get out of them.

Everything you have said so far is par for the course for a very drunk and violent prisoner. But if it isn't the case then a complaint can be made to GSOC.

OK, "prisoner" 56 year old arthritic male, non drinker, does not do drugs or even smokes. You say "arrested", No Arrest! No Explanation! Information and Resources
Listen to this page using ReadSpeaker
What Is Hypothermia?
Hypothermia is a potentially dangerous drop in body temperature, usually caused by prolonged exposure to cold temperatures. The risk of cold exposure increases as the winter months arrive. But if you're exposed to cold temperatures on a spring hike or capsized on a summer sail, you can also be at risk of hypothermia.

Normal body temperature averages 98.6 degrees. With hypothermia, core temperature drops below 95 degrees. In severe hypothermia, core body temperature drops to 86 degrees or lower.

What Causes Hypothermia?
The causes of hypothermia include:

Cold exposure. When the balance between the body's heat production and heat loss tips toward heat loss for a prolonged period, hypothermia can occur. Accidental hypothermia usually happens after cold temperature exposure without enough warm, dry clothing for protection. Mountain climbers on Mount Everest avoid hypothermia by wearing specialized, high-tech gear designed for that windy, icy environment.

However, much milder environments can also lead to hypothermia, depending on a person's age, body mass, body fat, overall health, and length of time exposed to cold temperatures. A frail, older adult in a 60-degree house after a power outage can develop mild hypothermia overnight. Infants and babies sleeping in cold bedrooms are also at risk.

Other causes. Certain medical conditions such as diabetes and thyroid conditions, some medications, severe trauma, or using drugs or alcohol all increase the risk of hypothermia.

Little CuChulainn

Ichabod Chrane wrote: »

OK, "prisoner" 56 year old arthritic male, non drinker, does not do drugs or even smokes. You say "arrested", No Arrest! No Explanation! Information and Resources
Listen to this page using ReadSpeaker
What Is Hypothermia?

If a person is handcuffed and brought to a cell then they have been arrested. Why you insist there was no arrest and keep using quotation marks is beyond me.

They are entitled to an explanation of the reason for their arrest, presuming they give the Garda the chance to speak.

The stuff you have described is what is standard for dealing with a violent prisoner, wether they are drunk, high or just an ass.

I am aware of what hypothermia is. You still don't get it from sitting in a cell for a few hours.

If you believe someone was mistreated in custody then report it to GSOC. That's what they are there for.

Zambia

Op there are two sides to every story.

But I for one do not believe you were out for a walk in your jocks and a t shirt. when some gardai whisked you off to be held for 4 hours just for the craic.

You should seek professional help.

Ichabod Chrane

Zambia wrote: »

Op there are two sides to every story.

But I for one do not believe you were out for a walk in your jocks and a t shirt. when some gardai whisked you off to be held for 4 hours just for the craic.

You should seek professional help.

Wrong! There are 3 sides to every story, your side, my side and the right side. (1)
The person involved does not care for the opinion of someone who`s IQ = shirt collar size. (2)

Evidently you have your tongue so far up the garda`s rectum, lack of O2 has caused irreversible 2 cell brain damage. (3)

bardcom

Ichabod Chrane wrote: »

Wrong! There are 3 sides to every story, your side, my side and the right side. (1)
The person involved does not care for the opinion of someone who`s IQ = shirt collar size. (2)

Evidently you have your tongue so far up the garda`s rectum, lack of O2 has caused irreversible 2 cell brain damage. (3)

Hmmmm....it's becoming less of a mystery every time you post...

DesperateDan

The overt rudeness is probably not going to help your cause there op. Best of luck though :pac:

Pro Hoc Vice

Ichabod Chrane wrote: »

Wrong! There are 3 sides to every story, your side, my side and the right side. (1)
The person involved does not care for the opinion of someone who`s IQ = shirt collar size. (2)

Evidently you have your tongue so far up the garda`s rectum, lack of O2 has caused irreversible 2 cell brain damage. (3)

Good way to get help from people.

The person may have been arrested it may have been for a good reason or not, the person may have been treated correctly or not, AGS have been know to make mistakes. The more than likely situation is that all was above board, but that of course does not mean the arrest and detention are kosher in this situation.

The person may have had a turn, a recent case involved a arrest for drink driving even though the person and a family member informed the AGS that the person was diabetic, only on the person keeling over was a doctor called, thankfully no serious injury.

The person needs to seek the advice of a professional, also the person needs to get a proper medical examination with tests to rule out or in issues.

Pro Hoc Vice

bardcom wrote: »

Hmmmm....it's becoming less of a mystery every time you post...

I have to agree.

Zambia

Ichabod Chrane wrote: »

Wrong! There are 3 sides to every story, your side, my side and the right side. (1)
The person involved does not care for the opinion of someone who`s IQ = shirt collar size. (2)

Evidently you have your tongue so far up the garda`s rectum, lack of O2 has caused irreversible 2 cell brain damage. (3)

So you admit your side and the right side are separate entity's.

Your lying or emblishing your story. Anyone can see it.

Ichabod Chrane

Zambia wrote: »

So you admit your side and the right side are separate entity's.

Your lying or emblishing your story. Anyone can see it.

1. Yes I do admit that my side and the right side are separate entities. Logic therefore dictates that there is another entity involved. This being none other than the man involved.
2. The level of education in Australia, even at the base level, is appalling. You typed 22 words, 2 of which are spelled incorrectly. (a) separate entity`s Fail separate entities. Pass
(b) I am not emblishing anything. The word that we use in this part of the World is ; embellishing. You also have a big problem with basic English. Your lying does not make grammatical sense. You are lying is what you should have typed.
3. Who is Anyone?

Zambia

Do you think your approach to people may be the issue?

Penny Tration

Ichabod Chrane wrote: »

1. Yes I do admit that my side and the right side are separate entities. Logic therefore dictates that there is another entity involved. This being none other than the man involved.
2. The level of education in Australia, even at the base level, is appalling. You typed 22 words, 2 of which are spelled incorrectly. (a) separate entity`s Fail separate entities. Pass
(b) I am not emblishing anything. The word that we use in this part of the World is ; embellishing. You also have a big problem with basic English. Your lying does not make grammatical sense. You are lying is what you should have typed.
3. Who is Anyone?

Your own use of punctuation leaves something to be desired.

If you believe what you're saying, get your 'friend' to a solicitor and let it be sorted in court.