Uganda to pass anti-gay law

periodictable

The Ugandan president is to sign into law an anti-gay bill, which will punish gay people with a sentence of life imprisonment if convicted.
Apparently he is signing the law because a study has shown that homosexuality is not genetically based.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/officials-ugandas-leader-to-sign-anti-gay-bill-that-includes-life-imprisonment/
I guess it's no surprise that a failed state such as Uganda should pass such a law. However I object to any Irish government money going to that country, and frankly I'm not interested in sob stories of dying children. No money for any so-called state that persecutes gay people, and I hope Gilmore has the balls to shut our embassy there.
Should you feel like contacting the Ugandan Embassy, here are the details:

58/59 Trafalgar Square
London
WC2N 5DX
United Kingdom
Phone:
+44-20-78395783
Fax:
+44-20-78398925

WellThen?

No doubt this is a inhumane, disgusting law. However I can't see how stopping aid to fellow humans in need is the right path AT ALL.

periodictable

Uganda is a rich country. It has been raped by a greedy and murderous elite, and this law is another way to divert attention from that endemic corruption. Focus on one thing at a time. That's how things get done.
No more money.

Annasopra

periodictable wrote: »

Uganda is a rich country. It has been raped by a greedy and murderous elite, and this law is another way to divert attention from that endemic corruption. Focus on one thing at a time. That's how things get done.
No more money.

Focus on one thing at a time? What does that even mean? Let's focus on lgbt rights rather than basic human rights issues like starvation and poverty?

Annasopra

periodictable wrote: »

frankly I'm not interested in sob stories of dying children. No money for any so-called state that persecutes gay people

Frankly I think this is a horrific attitude that places more importance on the human rights of lgbt people at the expense of others.

periodictable

mango salsa wrote: »

Frankly I think this is a horrific attitude that places more importance on the human rights of lgbt people at the expense of others.

What a ridiculous interpretation of my stance.
Where do I place more importance on LGBT rights above others?
Ask any aid agency about the corruption, theft, rotting, donated food stuck in warehouses until a bribe is paid to release it, food aid diverted to the army or to the black market, and the blame rests squarely with the indigenous government. It's a question of focusing one's energy to solve one problem. Condemning one's own people to starvation because you ransack the state is something I can do little about, but the deliberate harassment and persecution of a minority-and here substitute Jew/black- because you perceive them as different is something I believe I can effect.
You think it's a lesser evil to have open season on LGBT people? Bourgeois guilt? Joining hands and singing Kumbya might give you a warm gooey feeling, but whilst the intent is laudable, don't count on results.
You hurt the sons of bitches where it hurts- whatever it takes.
Wake up! This is a question again of fighting for our lives.
And while you're at it, educate yourself on the history of Uganda since 1964.

Annasopra

periodictable wrote: »

What a ridiculous interpretation of my stance.
Where do I place more importance on LGBT rights above others?
Ask any aid agency about the corruption, theft, rotting, donated food stuck in warehouses until a bribe is paid to release it, food aid diverted to the army or to the black market, and the blame rests squarely with the indigenous government. It's a question of focusing one's energy to solve one problem. Condemning one's own people to starvation because you ransack the state is something I can do little about, but the deliberate harassment and persecution of a minority-and here substitute Jew/black- because you perceive them as different is something I believe I can effect.
You think it's a lesser evil to have open season on LGBT people? Bourgeois guilt? Joining hands and singing Kumbya might give you a warm gooey feeling, but whilst the intent is laudable, don't count on results.
You hurt the sons of bitches where it hurts- whatever it takes.
Wake up! This is a question again of fighting for our lives.
And while you're at it, educate yourself on the history of Uganda since 1964.

I do not in any way support open season on lgbt people in Uganda and frankly thats a bizarre suggestion.

But let's step back and think about this for a second. If aid conditionality based on lgbt rights became a policy couldn't that result in open season on lgbt people? Wouldn't there be a danger of blaming them and persecuting them more? In fact didn't Kasha Jacqueline Nabagesera point out this out on April 17th to the Oireachtas?

I certainly don't have all the answers but aid withdrawal isn't a solution that I could support when local activists like Kashs Jacqueline point out the baclash that results from it.

periodictable

mango salsa wrote: »

Wouldn't there be a danger of blaming them and persecuting them more? In fact didn't Kasha Jacqueline Nabagesera point out this out on April 17th to the Oireachtas?
I certainly don't have all the answers but aid withdrawal isn't a solution that I could support when local activists like Kashs Jacqueline point out the backlash that results from it.

She's hardly going to demand that free money lining her corrupt political masters' pockets be stopped;she'd be killed at some stage. That's Uganda for you.
Yet her high profile might save her.
But what about the other LGBT people? They're not out and unknown to us in the west, so easy to make them disappear.
I can assure you that halting foreign aid is only the tip of what I really think ought to happen to Ugandan/Nigerian/Russian politicians....unfortunately I cannot advocate it on this website;)
As Margaret Thatcher said "You don't win by just being against things, you only win by being for things and making your message perfectly clear."

Annasopra

periodictable wrote: »

She's hardly going to demand that free money lining her corrupt political masters' pockets be stopped;she'd be killed at some stage. That's Uganda for you.
Yet her high profile might save her.
But what about the other LGBT people? They're not out and unknown to us in the west, so easy to make them disappear.
I can assure you that halting foreign aid is only the tip of what I really think ought to happen to Ugandan/Nigerian/Russian politicians....unfortunately I cannot advocate it on this website;)
As Margaret Thatcher said "You don't win by just being against things, you only win by being for things and making your message perfectly clear."

So basically imperialist West knows best and **** the consequences

periodictable

mango salsa wrote: »

So basically imperialist West knows best

I won't be depending on you to solve the problem:D
Time to re-instate you to the ignore list....don't think you quite got over being put on it before, eh?

riffmongous

periodictable wrote: »

She's hardly going to demand that free money lining her corrupt political masters' pockets be stopped;she'd be killed at some stage. That's Uganda for you.
Yet her high profile might save her.
But what about the other LGBT people? They're not out and unknown to us in the west, so easy to make them disappear.
I can assure you that halting foreign aid is only the tip of what I really think ought to happen to Ugandan/Nigerian/Russian politicians....unfortunately I cannot advocate it on this website;)
As Margaret Thatcher said "You don't win by just being against things, you only win by being for things and making your message perfectly clear."

Quoting Thatcher on a thread about a law against LGBT rights?

Annasopra

periodictable wrote: »

I won't be depending on you to solve the problem:D
Time to re-instate you to the ignore list....don't think you quite got over being put on it before, eh?

If you so wish. I didn't know I was on it before and it doesn't bother me.

baby and crumble

Can you put mods on ignore? I didn't think you could, otherwise how could the BAN HAMMER BE USED??!?!?!?!

In all seriousness, I don't think denying aid to the rest of uganda/ nigeria/ etc is the best way to go about it. People 'forced' into changing their legislation just to get money is never going to get to the root of the problem- which is deeply homophobic attitudes. Education is the key- although I am glad to see these laws being publicised.

periodictable

riffmongous wrote: »

Quoting Thatcher on a thread about a law against LGBT rights?

Thatcher was a product of her generation, and in fact voted for the decriminalization of homosexual relations in the 1960s. When asked about it, she said that during her work as a barrister she had come across too many cases of ordinary men whose lives were ruined once arrested for gross indecency, and felt that what went on between two consenting adults was their business.
Sure, she promoted section 28, a pretty awful piece of legislation.
However look at the quotation in the light I seek to use it.
For those who didn't grow up in the early 1980s, the case of Declan Flynn, murdered in Fairview Park, and his murderers acquitted, to great celebration, is something I remember, and the situation in Uganda is far more sinister for LGBT than ever it was for Irish LGBT. Hence the need to once and for all make it crystal clear to Musoveni and his pals that their law is unacceptable.

Ten of Swords

Simon Lokobo - Ugandan Minister of Ethics and Integration

We are tolerant. That’s what we are saying: we are not slaughtering them.

They can come and be helped to come out of this unfortunate situation.

It’s like a drug addict. Drug addiction is not an innate situation, it is acquired. But they can be transformed and become better.

So we are saying anybody found committing this incredible and abominable act should be checked and isolated from society.

If you are found practising it, we shall take you to a cell.

Mind blown

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/ugandan-minister-claims-nation-is-tolerant-as-gays-not-slaughtered-9136840.html

Ten of Swords

periodictable wrote: »

For those who didn't grow up in the early 1980s, the case of Declan Flynn, murdered in Fairview Park, and his murderers acquitted, to great celebration

Apologies for off-topic but I just wanted to clarify this.

Declan Flynn's killers were not acquitted, they were tried and convicted of manslaughter. The real kick was the fact that they all received suspended sentences. Not one of them served a day in jail for beating him to death even though they were all found guilty.

http://www.neverforgetthem.info/EU/EU_IRE_003_20080608.htm

mr.anonymous

The Ugandan Minister of Ethics and Integrity :rolleyes:

Dr. Shrike

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Declan Flynn's killers were not acquitted, they were tried and convicted of manslaughter. The real kick was the fact that they all received suspended sentences. Not one of them served a day in jail for beating him to death even though they were all found guilty.

I'd really like to see an article about tracking those men down and seeing what they did with their lives. Surely at least one of them ended up with an LGBT child, if they all had families.

porsche959

periodictable wrote: »

Thatcher was a product of her generation, and in fact voted for the decriminalization of homosexual relations in the 1960s. When asked about it, she said that during her work as a barrister she had come across too many cases of ordinary men whose lives were ruined once arrested for gross indecency, and felt that what went on between two consenting adults was their business.

Can you provide a source for this?

Lou.m

It's now a law.

http://www.livestation.com/en/reuters

:-(

periodictable

porsche959 wrote: »

Can you provide a source for this?

In her authorized biography by Charles Moore.
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/apr/27/margaret-thatcher-charles-moore-review
I was very surprised at this revelation, but when you consider that she voted for the legalization of abortion too in the UK, based on a particular experience, it does make sense because she was quite a practical person.

periodictable

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Apologies for off-topic but I just wanted to clarify this.

Declan Flynn's killers were not acquitted, they were tried and convicted of manslaughter. The real kick was the fact that they all received suspended sentences. Not one of them served a day in jail for beating him to death even though they were all found guilty.

http://www.neverforgetthem.info/EU/EU_IRE_003_20080608.htm

I stand corrected. Thanks

Ambersky

Sounds worse actually.

Annasopra

Ambersky wrote: »

Sounds worse actually.

what does?

Ambersky

Sorry wasnt clear was commenting on what Ten Of Swords said and was agreeing.
It sounds worse that they were actually convicted of manslaughter, that they were in no way acquitted or freed from the offense and still and still they didnt serve a day in jail.

periodictable

Can you imagine living under this SOB?

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2014/02/uganda-president-calls-gays-disgusting-in-interview-after-signing-anti-gay-law/