Why America is the greatest country in the world

CollardGreens

No, we are not the greatest country in the world. I'm not educated enough to know all that was written in this scene, not even sure if the writers were without doing their homework. America has it's problems like so many other countries. What I love about America is that we have so many people from so many other countries here and I learn everyday things from them and about their lives, foods, schools and so fourth. My Irish friends here, ya'll are just so funny ~ great sense of humor with so much compassion (I see that on your animal threads). The friends from Italy, WOW can they cook! I never knew what a conollie was (probably spelled it wrong). The Asian people, awesome ideas....youtube the lady getting the egg yoke out of the the rest of the egg, so simple and yet never thought of! I love it here but it's changing, and I miss the good ol days when the country was ran by the people, people from everywhere. Now it's ran by a bunch of rich people that mostly have everything done for them so they can't relate to any of us.

Please allow me to show a scene I really like, to me it says a lot about where we, America, as a nation are at this point. Thank you.

asherbassad

CollardGreens wrote: »

No, we are not the greatest country in the world. I'm not educated enough to know all that was written in this scene, not even sure if the writers were without doing their homework. America has it's problems like so many other countries. What I love about America is that we have so many people from so many other countries here and I learn everyday things from them and about their lives, foods, schools and so fourth. My Irish friends here, ya'll are just so funny ~ great sense of humor with so much compassion (I see that on your animal threads). The friends from Italy, WOW can they cook! I never knew what a conollie was (probably spelled it wrong). The Asian people, awesome ideas....youtube the lady getting the egg yoke out of the the rest of the egg, so simple and yet never thought of! I love it here but it's changing, and I miss the good ol days when the country was ran by the people, people from everywhere. Now it's ran by a bunch of rich people that mostly have everything done for them so they can't relate to any of us.

Please allow me to show a scene I really like, to me it says a lot about where we, America, as a nation are at this point. Thank you.

As if no other country in the friggin world has other nationalities living there. If you lived anywhere else on the planet you'd have Irish, Italian, Spanish, Asian, African friends as well if you made the effort to go out and meet them.

InTheTrees

Generally Americans live in their own bubble.

They talk about being a "melting pot" but don't have any experience of anywhere else to compare.

New York city is probably the most diverse place and possibly close to London or Paris.

Basically when you have a two party political system and one of those parties is predominately white middle class men, what does that tell you about diversity?

Overheal

/We're a large supplier of Potassium?

The last people in recent memory I know of that tried to organize a racial minority were the Black Panthers and MLK Jr., both of which ended unsuccessfully.

Full of White Men or otherwise both parties do their darndest to reach out to the broadest number of voters possible without alienating their other voters. Though the problem is as it always has been that opposing political factions stop most things from getting done.

Einhard

The odd things about most Americans, is how forward they are in proclaiming the greatness of their own nation. Whether their liberal or conservative, evangelical or atheist, the one thing that unites Americans is their recurring declarations of greatness. The West Wing is as liberal a show as one can get, yet across all the seasons, America was exulted and glorified. Seems odd that such a ostensibly confident people should engage so regularly in what smacks, IMO, of insecurity.

SamHarris

Einhard wrote: »

The odd things about most Americans, is how forward they are in proclaiming the greatness of their own nation. Whether their liberal or conservative, evangelical or atheist, the one thing that unites Americans is their recurring declarations of greatness. The West Wing is as liberal a show as one can get, yet across all the seasons, America was exulted and glorified. Seems odd that such a ostensibly confident people should engage so regularly in what smacks, IMO, of insecurity.

Historically if you look at any of the nations that dominated near as much as the US their citizens acted in a very similar fashion. As far back as the Romans, or even the Assyrians. So unless this is a running theme of insecurity that has played out amoungst the most succesful groups of people throughout history its not insecurity, it's pride. And in this case pride that can easily be backed up by looking at the statistics and criteria of what many would believe make a nation 'great'.

SamHarris

InTheTrees wrote: »

Generally Americans live in their own bubble.

Generally everyone does, except their bubble includes the US. I seriously doubt many Irish could tell you much about Asian, or African politics.

InTheTrees wrote: »

They talk about being a "melting pot" but don't have any experience of anywhere else to compare.

Why, in your experience what country has a greater number of cultures that came together to create one?

InTheTrees wrote: »

New York city is probably the most diverse place and possibly close to London or Paris.

No, far far more than Paris and perhaps recently London has more immigrants and is therefore more/as 'diverse' but considering that for centuries it has been the destination for 100'00s of thousands of immigrants from all over the world, who would then add their culture to that of those already there it is almost certainly more 'diverse' in a much deeper fashion. Just look up the work on linguistics in the city to see how incredible it really is with regard to its diversity.

InTheTrees wrote: »

Basically when you have a two party political system and one of those parties is predominately white middle class men, what does that tell you about diversity?

It tells you about politics.

Demographics, cultural affiliations and ethnicity tells you about diversity.

SamHarris

Overheal wrote: »

The last people in recent memory I know of that tried to organize a racial minority were the Black Panthers and MLK Jr., both of which ended unsuccessfully.

Is that sarcasm? Because there are thousands of groups, some enormously powerful, dedicated to organizing racial minorities.

Kold

Basebawl, Apple Pahh and the protection of war criminals.

SamHarris

asherbassad wrote: »

As if no other country in the friggin world has other nationalities living there. If you lived anywhere else on the planet you'd have Irish, Italian, Spanish, Asian, African friends as well if you made the effort to go out and meet them.

85% of people in Ireland are ethnic Irish. Another 9% are whites of other ethnicitys. 85% of people identify as Roman Catholic. It's a matter of magnitude.
The LARGEST ethnic group in the US is around 20% of the population. Trying to compare the two is a joke.

Since it's creation 10% of US citizens have been first generation immigrants. They later became 'Americans' proper, but retain cultural affiliations with their original ethnic groupings. THATS what creates the enormous diversity.

Kold

SamHarris wrote: »

85% of people in Ireland are ethnic Irish. Another 9% are whites of other ethnicitys. 85% of people identify as Roman Catholic. It's a matter of magnitude.
The LARGEST ethnic group in the US is around 20% of the population. Trying to compare the two is a joke.

Since it's creation 10% of US citizens have been first generation immigrants. They later became 'Americans' proper, but retain cultural affiliations with their original ethnic groupings. THATS what creates the enormous diversity.

Yeah well it doesn't help when ethnic Americans were the victim of genocide.

SamHarris

Kold wrote: »

Yeah well it doesn't help when ethnic Americans were the victim of genocide.

Which ones? There is now ample evidence that many of the tribes were not the first ethnic groups in a given region.

It's comlpetly embarrassing to me how little Irish people know of our own history, they are so enamored with American culture they know less about themselves than they do of them.

Beautiful case in point - what do you think happened to the 'ethnic Irish'? No, not the Normans, not the Gaels, not the Cymrii but the original settlers believed to be of Basque extraction? They were destroyed. As were the Cymrii. You might say, ah but it was so long ago, but exactly how many generations does one have to bear responsibility? An arbitrary one, no doubt.

It is interesting, and very telling that it seems to be only the US that must feel ashamed for their treatment of natives, despite the fact it has happened nearly everywhere at one point or another.

People spend all day watching shows about American social issues, or historical wrongs, or politcal debates because the vast majority of media of any quality is made there. Somehow, they then convince themselves that "WEll, if I havent heard of it happening elsewhere, it must be especially bad there/ only happen there." Trust me, the vast majority of the time it is the result of the persons ignorance.

Other people in the Americas seem to get a pass, despite their far more brutal treatment of native populations. Why? Well, very clearly the US made the crucial mistake of doing better than us - which, trust me, is the source of much of the vitriol against them around the world. It is not a coincidence that they are the most 'hated' and by far and away the most powerful and successful by many measures. It is the only thing that is 'special' about them. The chances it is a coincidence? 1 in 200. Not good math, Im afraid.

It's also dreadfully sad that the only people to bother remembering the wrongs done to their native population are the only ones that seem to have to feel shame for it. Its always the way - German people are still mostly remembered for Hitler, despite taking responsibility for their wrongs in as much as they could. Japan, meanwhile, still denies many of their own wrongs, and so no one else outside of south East Asia bothers remembering them either.

Kold

SamHarris wrote: »

Which ones? There is now ample evidence that many of the tribes were not the first ethnic groups in a given region.

It's comlpetly embarrassing to me how little Irish people know of our own history, they are so enamored with American culture they know less about themselves than they do of them.

Beautiful case in point - what do you think happened to the 'ethnic Irish'? No, not the Normans, not the Gaels, not the Cymrii but the original settlers believed to be of Basque extraction? They were destroyed. As were the Cymrii. You might say, ah but it was so long ago, but exactly how many generations does one have to bear responsibility? An arbitrary one, no doubt.

It is interesting, and very telling that it seems to be only the US that must feel ashamed for their treatment of natives, despite the fact it has happened nearly everywhere at one point or another.

People spend all day watching shows about American social issues, or historical wrongs, or politcal debates because the vast majority of media of any quality is made there. Somehow, they then convince themselves that "WEll, if I havent heard of it happening elsewhere, it must be especially bad there/ only happen there." Trust me, the vast majority of the time it is the result of the persons ignorance.

Other people in the Americas seem to get a pass, despite their far more brutal treatment of native populations. Why? Well, very clearly the US made the crucial mistake of doing better than us - which, trust me, is the source of much of the vitriol against them around the world. It is not a coincidence that they are the most 'hated' and by far and away the most powerful and successful by many measures. It is the only thing that is 'special' about them. The chances it is a coincidence? 1 in 200. Not good math, Im afraid.

It's also dreadfully sad that the only people to bother remembering the wrongs done to their native population are the only ones that seem to have to feel shame for it. Its always the way - German people are still mostly remembered for Hitler, despite taking responsibility for their wrongs in as much as they could. Japan, meanwhile, still denies many of their own wrongs, and so no one else outside of south East Asia bothers remembering them either.

Well speak for yourself.

It's strange that you bring up the Germans and the Japanese' past though. Seeing as both are very successful nations also yet for some reason draw a hell of a lot less flak (apart from the Koreans and Chinese of course). It probably has something to do with cultures that don't celebrate the most noisy and ignorant; "murrca #1". That's also despite an undercurrent of racial superiority from many Japanese.
I think more people would use the Rape of Nanking as ammunition if the Japanese were continuously looking to show us why Japan is the best place ever. America is constantly trying to live up to this beacon of hope and enlightenment when it is very clear to many that this is merely a PR exercise.
It's the hypocrisy that gets many people's goats. It's easy to point at communist countries and talk about the propaganda and indoctrination, well it's not as if it doesn't exist in the US either. Japanese people may not be educated about their actions during WWII, but I don't know many Americans that could tell me about the 200 million tonnes of ordnance they dropped on Laos only a few decades ago.

InTheTrees

SamHarris wrote: »

Why, in your experience what country has a greater number of cultures that came together to create one?

huh?

Well Europe is the same geographical size but when it was populated national borders were not such an issue(!), so nobody actually "created" it.

InTheTrees

SamHarris wrote: »

It is interesting, and very telling that it seems to be only the US that must feel ashamed for their treatment of natives, despite the fact it has happened nearly everywhere at one point or another.

Its really more about how recently it happened. We all tend to frown on it in this modern world right?

It happened in other countries too. Australia. Brazil. The South American countries. And Canada to a certain extent I think. What others in the last 200 years?

And lets face it the americans have been making films about the conflict between "cowboys and indians" for a hundred years now and its only recently that the "indians" have been portrayed with much sympathy so they've been pushing the message pretty hard.

InTheTrees

SamHarris wrote: »

People spend all day watching shows about American social issues, or historical wrongs, or politcal debates because the vast majority of media of any quality is made there.

QED

:rolleyes:

SamHarris

InTheTrees wrote: »

QED

:rolleyes:

People watch what they enjoy. People pay to see what they enjoy. All over the world its US media of all sorts that is dominant. Really about the only objective measure you are going to get of what the majority like or do not like. If you happen to enjoy French Avant guarde films, it's complete lack of commercial success demonstrates you are in a small minority.

QED'd.

Try to think before asking a question, this had a simple answer so really instead of wasting my time perhaps you should apply some thought yourself. You'll be better for it.

SamHarris

Kold wrote: »

Well speak for yourself.

Ironic considering how determinedly this entire thread is based on childish generalizations.

Kold wrote: »

It's strange that you bring up the Germans and the Japanese' past though. Seeing as both are very successful nations also yet for some reason draw a hell of a lot less flak (apart from the Koreans and Chinese of course). It probably has something to do with cultures that don't celebrate the most noisy and ignorant; "murrca #1". That's also despite an undercurrent of racial superiority from many Japanese.

The only reason it is 'noisy' is because you saturate yourself in American made products. Perhaps enjoy some CHinese cinema for a year instead and it will be slightly more 'noisy'.

So you believe its dominance and the attitude many portray in Ireland otwards it which, by the way, show very clearly the 5 major signs of an inferiority complex, isnt dictated by its pre eminent position in many areas people care about? Like I said, it would be a 1/200 chance for that to be the case, so you would require a hell of a lot more evidence than some vague reference to Japan and Germany doing quite alright themselves.

If you believe the US is in any way special in its citizens believing their own nation special then you have just demonstrated your own ignorance a great deal, Im afraid. Perhaps your few months of enjoying media from other states will disavow you of that idea - most, in fact, from powerful states is far, far more nationalistic and cheerleading than Americas.

You are making the ridiculous assumption that because you do not hear of other people in other nations chearing themselves on that it must therefore not happen as much. Thank you for proving one of my points beautifully - you almost certainly have seen little to nothing of other nations media and yet feel comfortable making the assumption that, because you have never bothered listening, their must be no sound. Very basic logical fallacy.

Kold wrote: »

I think more people would use the Rape of Nanking as ammunition if the Japanese were continuously looking to show us why Japan is the best place ever. America is constantly trying to live up to this beacon of hope and enlightenment when it is very clear to many that this is merely a PR exercise.

Again, how would you even know if they were trying to show you that? How many Japanese films have you seen released here recently? How many Japanese shows do you watch? How often do you see articles or read articles from Japanese newspapers? The Americans arent shouting it any louder than any number of other places, in fact much less than many I can think of its just that people LISTEN more. Really think about it for two seconds, christ :rolleyes:

Kold wrote: »

It's the hypocrisy that gets many people's goats. It's easy to point at communist countries and talk about the propaganda and indoctrination, well it's not as if it doesn't exist in the US either. Japanese people may not be educated about their actions during WWII, but I don't know many Americans that could tell me about the 200 million tonnes of ordnance they dropped on Laos only a few decades ago.

Then you dont know what real propaganda is - heres a hint, its not a private news outlet pushing a political position. Please just read the wiki.

And no, if you know anything about Japanese education concerning their time of empire you would know they have a very different attitude that US people do of the Vietnam war and indeed the publics perception of it now. Just demonstrating your ignorance on the subject again, Im afraid.

For something I realised when I was 8 its incredible to me how many Irish (and other nationalities) cannot grasp the basic concept that if you buy American videogames, tv shows, movies, music and technology, more than you do from the rest of the world combined, then its going to be the case that you will hear more about both the good and bad of America. It does not mean by any means that other countries glorify themselves less (the opposite, if you know much about the subject at all) or whatever else. Its a case of you HEARING it more. How is such an obvious and basic concept not understood with just a moments clear thought on the issue?

And given my experience of both Irish and Americans its ironic that for all the complaining Irish do about Americans (almost always snidely behind their back, of course) Americans have far more respect and tolerance for Irish, despite are far lesser achievements in nearly every measurable area. On a personal level the criticisms many level at Americans is almost always more true of the person themselves than them.

InTheTrees

SamHarris wrote: »

People watch what they enjoy. People pay to see what they enjoy. All over the world its US media of all sorts that is dominant. Really about the only objective measure you are going to get of what the majority like or do not like. If you happen to enjoy French Avant guarde films, it's complete lack of commercial success demonstrates you are in a small minority.

QED'd.

Try to think before asking a question, this had a simple answer so really instead of wasting my time perhaps you should apply some thought yourself. You'll be better for it.

I never asked a question.

QED means "point made". Its latin. Sorry.

Its probably time, now that you're making these definitive statements about the reach of US Culture, to clarify your credentials.

You presumably have lived in Asia and Europe to have these insights into the prevalence of "us media" in those places?

So enlighten us of the dominance if US Media in Europe and Asia?

Kold

The sheer amount of assumptions in that reply hurt my head. You're crying into the wind mate but I can tell you that someone sure is displaying their immense ignorance here and well.. It's you.

SamHarris

InTheTrees wrote: »

I never asked a question.

QED means "point made". Its latin. Sorry.

Its probably time, now that you're making these definitive statements about the reach of US Culture, to clarify your credentials.

You presumably have lived in Asia and Europe to have these insights into the prevalence of "us media" in those places?

So enlighten us of the dominance if US Media in Europe and Asia?

Ah I thought it was 'yet to be proved' sorry. I really hope I havent tried to use it in conversation and embarrassed myself.

Lived in 6 countries, visited 26, all over the world. In every one, even in small towns in Malaysia it would be poster of Michael Jordan, or Britney Spears in the music stores. Anecdotal, of course, but you asked.

Your honestly not aware of the dominance of American culture around the world?

Well you could apply the same reasoning used for Ireland - using the commercial viability of its products in comparison to others to see how much people consume. All over the world movie charts, TV programs are rebroadcast all over the world http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/5231334.stm just an example of 20 countries note that even with the language barrier 6 of the 10 are American, music charts are similiar, software sales etc is dominated by US corporations. Thats as close as you are going to find when looking for a measure of peoples consumption of various cultures. If you can suggest a better one, please go ahead.

Because of, or perhaps contributing to, its economic dominance (nearly 25% of the world economy) and how integrated the world economy is, its nearly impossible for it not to be. Of the top 10 global brand names, 7 are American.

This is all with 3% of the world population. Its dominance is obvious to anyone who isnt trying not to see it, really.


The concept of "Globalization" being merely "Americanization" is a well documented one, and again all one has to do is look at the success of Hollywood all over the world as one amoungst many examples of this.

SamHarris

Kold wrote: »

The sheer amount of assumptions in that reply hurt my head. You're crying into the wind mate but I can tell you that someone sure is displaying their immense ignorance here and well.. It's you.

So you can find no fault with the logic but its irritating to you? Fair enough.

And considering this entire discussion is based on assumption its only fitting.

InTheTrees

SamHarris wrote: »

Your honestly not aware of the dominance of American culture around the world?

No. I dont.

American Culture only dominates the world in the mind of Americans. This is the "bubble".

But you cant see that so you perpetuate the myth of the "ugly american". That's what makes all your boasting slightly embarrassing.

InTheTrees

SamHarris wrote: »

Your honestly not aware of the dominance of American culture around the world?

You know the Birtish think the same way? You probably didnt.

Their cuture is far more pervasive through the world because they've had longer to spread it.

And they regard american "culture" as just a perversion of "Britishness".

You should get into a boasting match with some limeys.

Ohio1296

I am an American and I have traveled and lived extensively through Europe, Asia and the Middle East. I have served in the US military, I have seen the good things that my country does as well as the bad. I love my country for many reasons, however I don't believe that we are "the greatest nation" by any means. In fact I am not sure that any country can make claim to such a thing. There are somethings that America and Americans are great at (like all nations) and there are somethings that we are really crappy at.

As far as the spread of American culture I am not sure that it has anything to do with quality as much as it has to do with commercialism.

It is true that most Americans have never traveled outside of the United States. There are a variety of reasons for this but I think the biggest one is that the United States is a geographically isolated country. The continent of North America is primarily made up of just three countries, Canada, the US and Mexico. The simple vastness and distances involved prevent most Americans from leaving the country, and if they do it is to visit either Canada or Mexico (depending on where you live in the US).

A Primal Nut

Yeah I've travelled all over the world; in all kinds of far-flung places and American culture is definitely the most dominant one. Even gossip magazines in all kinds of strange languages will have Beyonce on the front.

Even in many parts of the Middle East, most of the films in the cinemas are American.