Identify these TDs

MJohnston

I'm hoping someone can help me identify the TDs that are present in this screenshot:



Regardless of your position on this case, I hope you agree it is important that as a voter, I should be able to know who was (and who wasn't) there to represent me. Thanks for any help.

BlaasForRafa

Its a bit small but I'm pretty sure that Minister O'Reilly and junior minister Jan O'Sullivan are on the right of the picture on the government benches. It looks like Mary Lou McDonald and Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin plus one other on the Sinn Fein benches. The others are just too small/blurry to make out.

MJohnston

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its a bit small but I'm pretty sure that Minister O'Reilly and junior minister Jan O'Sullivan are on the right of the picture on the government benches. It looks like Mary Lou McDonald and Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin plus one other on the Sinn Fein benches. The others are just too small/blurry to make out.

Ahhh, so is this reversed from the official seating plan on http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/tdssenators/dailchamber-seatingplan/

As in, the arched section is underneath the camera?

BlaasForRafa

MJohnston wrote: »

Ahhh, so is this reversed from the official seating plan on http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/tdssenators/dailchamber-seatingplan/

As in, the arched section is underneath the camera?

Yes exactly, the camera is positioned above the arched section on the seating plan and we are looking directly toward the Ceann Comhairle

Btw I'm pretty sure I saw Billy Kelleher of FF in the Dail when the debate was briefly shown on the news but I can't be sure if one of the figures in the picture is him.

MJohnston

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its a bit small but I'm pretty sure that Minister O'Reilly and junior minister Jan O'Sullivan are on the right of the picture on the government benches. It looks like Mary Lou McDonald and Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin plus one other on the Sinn Fein benches. The others are just too small/blurry to make out.

Having checked against the seating plan I'd mostly agree (although they probably just ignore that when it's empty), except I think it's Kathleen Lynch and not O'Sullivan.

I'd speculate also Billy Kelleher, possibly Mattie McGrath and Michael Lowry

ArmaniJeanss

MJohnston wrote: »

Regardless of your position on this case, I hope you agree it is important that as a voter, I should be able to know who was (and who wasn't) there to represent me. Thanks for any help.

Merely not being in the Chamber for that screenshot doesn't mean they weren't there to represent you. Take a similar shot 15 minutes earlier or later and there would be a different set of TDs there, (though the Ministers and Junior Ministers for whom the debate is most relevent will tend to be there for the whole thing).

They have offices in which they will/should be watching it live on closed-circuit TV, and quite often they will only enter the Chamber in the ten minutes preceeding their own speech, make their speech, and head back to their office.

Now in fairness a lot of people disapprove of this and believe all TDs should be present in the Chamber if they are in Leinster House at all. Personally I disagree with this - I get more work done in my office job at my desk rather in a meeting room listening to other people speak.

MJohnston

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Merely not being in the Chamber for that screenshot doesn't mean they weren't there to represent you. Take a similar shot 15 minutes earlier or later and there would be a different set of TDs there, (though the Ministers and Junior Ministers for whom the debate is most relevent will tend to be there for the whole thing).

They have offices in which they will/should be watching it live on closed-circuit TV, and quite often they will only enter the Chamber in the ten minutes preceeding their own speech, make their speech, and head back to their office.

Now in fairness a lot of people disapprove of this and believe all TDs should be present in the Chamber if they are in Leinster House at all. Personally I disagree with this - I get more work done in my office job at my desk rather in a meeting room listening to other people speak.

Yeah, I'm aware of all that, but there was a similar pathetic attendance last week when the Savita story first came to light. The only time there is full attendance seems to be when they are discussing holidays.

In my opinion, if they cared about the issue, they'd be there and they'd be visible. That is what I would consider full representation, and that they aren't doing this (and my TDs definitely weren't) is something I am annoyed about.

edanto

With respect, I think your anger is misdirected.

It isn't a problem that the TDs aren't present, simply because they are impotent in that forum in any case. The whip system ensured that specific Private Members Bill was rejected, much the same as a similarly intended proposal from the Independents back in April in relation to legislation for the X case. Rejected completely by the government.

So, turning up to sit and listen to empty talk in an empty chamber is not what I want my TDs to be doing.

Certainly not if they can be more effective by taking part in meetings, bringing constituency groups into Leinster House, lobbying cabinet or Departments.

The whip system and the associated concentration of power at cabinet is, I believe, the most damaging aspect of our weak parliament. Because of it, our TDs can't vote with their conscience, and when challenged on certain votes, they can just wring their hands and say they had no choice. It suits many of them, I think, as it certainly seems like they are way out of their depth on the issues of the day and are really just there to make up the numbers.

Here's a post by one TD (a guy I support) calling for the number of TDs to be halved!
http://stephendonnelly.ie/we-need-fewer-better-tds/

laoch na mona

if you look up the dail debates you'll find there names

Head The Wall

edanto wrote: »

With respect, I think your anger is misdirected.

It isn't a problem that the TDs aren't present, simply because they are impotent in that forum in any case. The whip system ensured that specific Private Members Bill was rejected, much the same as a similarly intended proposal from the Independents back in April in relation to legislation for the X case. Rejected completely by the government.

So, turning up to sit and listen to empty talk in an empty chamber is not what I want my TDs to be doing.

Certainly not if they can be more effective by taking part in meetings, bringing constituency groups into Leinster House, lobbying cabinet or Departments.

The whip system and the associated concentration of power at cabinet is, I believe, the most damaging aspect of our weak parliament. Because of it, our TDs can't vote with their conscience, and when challenged on certain votes, they can just wring their hands and say they had no choice. It suits many of them, I think, as it certainly seems like they are way out of their depth on the issues of the day and are really just there to make up the numbers.

Here's a post by one TD (a guy I support) calling for the number of TDs to be halved!
http://stephendonnelly.ie/we-need-fewer-better-tds/

TD's are elected to enact legislation so they should have no constituency offices and they should be up in Dublin full time devoting their time to national issues. Local issues are for councillors.

GRMA

There are TVs everywhere in leinster house, I don't think you can be anywhere and not follow whats going on in the chamber

nuac

Head The Wall wrote: »

TD's are elected to enact legislation so they should have no constituency offices and they should be up in Dublin full time devoting their time to national issues. Local issues are for councillors.

In multi-seat constituencies any TD who wishes to be re-elected has to look after local issues.

There have been few exceptions to this over the years

later12

laoch na mona wrote: »

if you look up the dail debates you'll find there names

Dail debates won't list those in attendance, unfortunately.

The parliamentary system we operate in Ireland makes any contribution - even the moving, impassioned and thoughtful contributions - more or less irrelevant in a practical way. All these contributions are capable of providing is momentary embarrassment that rarely materialises into Government action or law reform.

Leinster House certainly is a place where many decisions of governance are made - but those decisions are made in private committee rooms and in the members' bar; the Dail Chamber is little more than a facade.

To that end, I have some sympathy with deputies who do not regularly attend the chamber.

In the case of Daly's motion, however, I think it was important for the Dail to respectfully show even a symbolic interest in political reform, and in that respect, the above screen grab is a little disappointing.

ninty9er

You do know they can see the Bill in advance, pass their views to the appropriate deputy of their persuasion and have the view put forward?

It's not a matter of having to be sitting there doing nothing rather than in their office doing something useful like reading proposed new or amended legislation.

I think once they are present for a vote that they are representing as not everyone has speaking rights on every issue, otherwise it would be complete chaos.

later12

ninty9er wrote: »

You do know they can see the Bill in advance, pass their views to the appropriate deputy of their persuasion and have the view put forward?

I'm not sure whether the tone which is verging on exasperation in that comment is intended?

Surely you can't realistically criticize a disillusion with the opacity of the political process as quite accurately descrived in your comment.

Personally, I want to know what my local representative thinks about issues of major national importance, such as abortion. As it stands, I have only very fuzzy notions based on what I have gathered from reports on Fine Gael parliamentary party meetings that take place behind closed doors and are regurgitated in some form, if we're lucky, by one of the political correspondents.

That's not really good enough.

It's not that we necessarily want 165 TDs given speaking time, just that they might be given free rein to oppose the party line, should they desire, without fear of punishment of the magnitude that is currently meted out by the appropriately named whips. That is why we see such pathetic numbers attending crucial debates like the above, not because deputies are glued to Dail TV in their offices.

The thing is done and dusted before it gets on the order of business.

GRMA

later12 wrote: »

I'm not sure whether the tone which is verging on exasperation in that comment is intended?

Surely you can't realistically criticize a disillusion with the opacity of the political process as quite accurately descrived in your comment.

Personally, I want to know what my local representative thinks about issues of major national importance, such as abortion. As it stands, I have only very fuzzy notions based on what I have gathered from reports on Fine Gael parliamentary party meetings that take place behind closed doors and are regurgitated in some form, if we're lucky, by one of the political correspondents.

That's not really good enough.

It's not that we necessarily want 165 TDs given speaking time, just that they might be given free rein to oppose the party line, should they desire, without fear of punishment of the magnitude that is currently meted out by the appropriately named whips. That is why we see such pathetic numbers attending crucial debates like the above, not because deputies are glued to Dail TV in their offices.

The thing is done and dusted before it gets on the order of business.

Send them an email and ask... thats what I did. And do, for various things.

later12

GRMA wrote: »

Send them an email and ask... thats what I did. And do, for various things.

I worked in a TD's office once; unless they are some sort of renegade the done thing is to base any opinion on the party line, often as is delivered from a PR company via party HQ, and forwarded on directly to constituents verbatim.

Good experiment might be to write to a handful of TDs around the country on any topical subject, and see how closely the responses resemble one another.

P_1

later12 wrote: »

I worked in a TD's office once; unless they are some sort of renegade the done thing is to base any opinion on the party line, often as is delivered from a PR company via party HQ, and forwarded on directly to constituents verbatim.

Good experiment might be to write to a handful of TDs around the country on any topical subject, and see how closely the responses resemble one another.

Plenty of damning evidence of that in the replies to queries during the Sherlock SI

Sully

later12 wrote: »

I worked in a TD's office once; unless they are some sort of renegade the done thing is to base any opinion on the party line, often as is delivered from a PR company via party HQ, and forwarded on directly to constituents verbatim.

Good experiment might be to write to a handful of TDs around the country on any topical subject, and see how closely the responses resemble one another.

In some cases, yes. But not in all cases.