Engagment ring problem

pwurple

A close friend bought an engagment ring from a jeweller in Cork. He went to get it valued for insurance. They brought it to another jeweller for an independent valuation. The second jeweller has told him that the diamond in the ring is not as stated on the diamond certificate. Clarity, colour and size are all incorrect. The diamond is worth about 1/3 of what he paid for it a few weeks previously.

He spoke to the original jeweller, who (after being incredulous, and suggesting that they insure the ring with the cert provided and then "lose" the ring), said they can give a full refund for the ring, but as they are in financial difficulty, can only do so in installments. This obviously has made him very nervous about this transaction.

Should a payment contract be made up by a solicitor for this? Or is there a better way to go about this?

Procrastastudy

pwurple wrote: »

A close friend bought an engagment ring from a jeweller in Cork. He went to get it valued for insurance. They brought it to another jeweller for an independent valuation. The second jeweller has told him that the diamond in the ring is not as stated on the diamond certificate. Clarity, colour and size are all incorrect. The diamond is worth about 1/3 of what he paid for it a few weeks previously.

He spoke to the original jeweller, who (after being incredulous, and suggesting that they insure the ring with the cert provided and then "lose" the ring), said they can give a full refund for the ring, but as they are in financial difficulty, can only do so in installments. This obviously has made him very nervous about this transaction.

Should a payment contract be made up by a solicitor for this? Or is there a better way to go about this?

Assuming it was under €2000 would the Small Claims Court be an avenue for this? Hypothetically of course.

I'd probably look to keep the ring and get the value back - that way at least he has something if it goes peat tong. Thats practical rather than legal advise.

Disclaimer: I'm wrong 90% of the time in this forum.

pwurple

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Assuming it was under €2000 would the Small Claims Court be an avenue for this? Hypothetically of course.

It's not under €2,000, so I think that would be out.

Procrastastudy

Jaysus she must be worth it.

If a credit card company was involved (which you should always try and do for large purchases) get in contact with them - they may be able to render assistance.

NoQuarter

Get legal advice from a solicitor. If the payment plan doesnt work you can seek damages for breach of contract through misrepresentation in the district court. I hope he hasnt bought a ring that would fall into the circuit courts monetary jurisdiction!

There are issues relating to the sale of goods act also.

pwurple

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Jaysus she must be worth it.

Um obviously ???

If a credit card company was involved (which you should always try and do for large purchases) get in contact with them - they may be able to render assistance.

No credit card, it was paid for initially with a bank draft. I don't think his credit card would have covered this either even if he wanted to do that... I wouldn't have considered putting large purchases like a car or fine jewellery on a credit card.

If the payment plan doesnt work you can seek damages for breach of contract through misrepresentation in the district court. I hope he hasnt bought a ring that would fall into the circuit courts monetary jurisdiction!

Thanks! Should a solicitor draw up the payment plan, or is this something he can do himself?

Procrastastudy

pwurple wrote: »

No credit card, it was paid for initially with a bank draft. I don't think his credit card would have covered this either even if he wanted to do that... I wouldn't have considered putting large purchases like a car or fine jewellery on a credit card.

In future I would suggest involving an intermediary such as a credit card or some kind of financing. Gives you greater protection if something like this happens. Looks like this is going to get very expensive if its over the DC limit of €6,350. Hopefully he won;t need to buy many more engagement rings - cars are a good example.

NoQuarter knows about a million times more than I do but I'm not exactly sure what agreement will be of any use if a limited liability company goes into liquidation.

As this is definitely in the bounds of commenting on specifics now I'll echo the suggestion of seeing a solicitor.

Jame Gumb

Could the individual agree to the shop's proposal but retain the ring as "insurance"?

A written agreement should establish the shop's liability and at least the customer would start to get reimbursed.

ResearchWill

Have you thought of getting security from the shop tone held by say a solicitor untill the money is paid back. A jewellery shop bound to have loads of valuable stuff to use as guarantee.

johnnyskeleton

I'm amazed that the jewellers reaction wasn't to callthe gardai and complain that the person who sold him on the ring dis so with a dodgy certificate

pwurple

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I'm amazed that the jewellers reaction wasn't to callthe gardai and complain that the person who sold him on the ring dis so with a dodgy certificate

Indeed. Apparantly they buy loose diamonds in small bags, rather than the blister packs which are the norm. They think there was a mixup with another customer getting a diamond worth far more than they paid for it.

TBH, as soon as I heard they suggested insurance fraud as a possible solution, alarm bells rang for me about what is going on. It just seems off.

Thanks for the suggestions above about using other jewellery as a guarantee with a solicitor. That will be helpful, as their main worry is handing over the ring, and then the place closing down, leaving him with nothing at all.

There is some emotional overhead here, as it's the ring he proposed with... and they are planning a wedding. So there's quite a lot of upset and anger. But as long as he keeps a level head, and they get the money back, that's the main thing.

NoQuarter

pwurple wrote: »

Thanks! Should a solicitor draw up the payment plan, or is this something he can do himself?

Youd be paying a solicitor to do it for you when in reality, its going to be a contract between you and the store, so you are big enough and ugly enough to enter into a contract without a solicitor. Just make sure you're happy with the terms.

As Procrastastudy mentioned, if the shop goes bust, you will be at the bottom of a long list of creditors probably, so youll need some insurance. The poster quoted below mentioned a good idea.

Jame Gumb wrote: »

Could the individual agree to the shop's proposal but retain the ring as "insurance"?

Jame Gumb

If they like the ring for its sentimentality, should they take a refund of the price differential?

That might make the shop more likely to play ball (if they're only on the hook for 2/3 of the retail price rather than 100%).

Of course the store are at fault here and behaving disgracefully, but it sounds like they're close to going bust so the sooner this is resolved, the better for the couple.

pwurple

Jame Gumb wrote: »

If they like the ring for its sentimentality, should they take a refund of the price differential?

That might make the shop more likely to play ball (if they're only on the hook for 2/3 of the retail price rather than 100%).

Of course the store are at fault here and behaving disgracefully, but it sounds like they're close to going bust so the sooner this is resolved, the better for the couple.

I should have mentioned that the shop did also suggest this, but it was dismissed by the couple, because the new value the shop suggested was still much much higher than the valuation.

krd

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I'm amazed that the jewellers reaction wasn't to callthe gardai and complain that the person who sold him on the ring dis so with a dodgy certificate

Well........let's just say....if he had something to do with the dodgy certificate, he might not be all that enthusiastic about having the garda around.

Victor

Everything screams scam. The jewellers sounds like they is in serious trouble, whether of his own making or not. Desperate people do desperate things and their scruples are less than they might otherwise be. This person can not be trusted - at all.

However, you are stuck with them for the moment - be very wary of any promises and expect deadlines to not be met.

You will of course, be in the market for a pair of wedding rings, a watch for the best man, earrings for the bridesmaids, Christmas & birthday presents and a first anniversary gift. Take them now (and put them somewhere safe). Make sure you have them valued.

johnnyskeleton

krd wrote: »

Well........let's just say....if he had something to do with the dodgy certificate, he might not be all that enthusiastic about having the garda around.

Precisely, although the OP has since supplied a more innocent explanation.

therealme

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Jaysus she must be worth it.

Under 2k for an engagement ring??? Wouldn't accept it:D

Procrastastudy

therealme wrote: »

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Jaysus she must be worth it.

Under 2k for an engagement ring??? Wouldn't accept it:D

We had the choice fancy engagement ring which she'd loose or three weeks in Kenya

therealme

Fair point!!!

seagull

Does the jeweller not have any stones in stock of the quality that should be in the ring? It sounds like you want to keep the ring, so the best option might be to have the low grade diamonds replaced. That's assuming you trust him to get it right the second time round.