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TV3 now 1977 Tenerife crash

  • 28-02-2012 10:43pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,653
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    Bloody hell :(


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,609 stoneill
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    I remember that!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 Davidth88
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    Me too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,712 roundymac
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    Not a great version.Missed a couple of points, I know it's picking but I think it's important to show what a bully can do by being so arrogant.
    Van Zanthan the KLM pilot was told by his co-pilot that he did not have clearence the first time he opened the trottles, when the co-pilot was asking for the clearence he once again opened the trottles, the engineer quiried, is he not clear, the Pam Am, Van Zanthan said yes he was, the co-pilot was too stressed to argue, he tried to communicate with the tower by stating, and we are now at take off. The Tower did'nt pick up on it, in fairness they were under enough stress. The arrogance of that man killed all those people. He was considered a god at KLM, his picture being used in a lot of KLM advertising. When the news of the crash broke management at KLM went looking for Van Zanthan, to get him to lead a team to investigate the crash, not realising that he was the pilot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,688 mickdw
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    I didnt know any of the history of this but from this programme, it was more than obvious that the KLM captain was an asshole and that his behaviour caused the whole thing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 mike65
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    Well remember that, probably the first big disaster I was fully aware of.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 Run_to_da_hills
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    mickdw wrote: »
    I didnt know any of the history of this but from this programme, it was more than obvious that the KLM captain was an asshole and that his behaviour caused the whole thing.
    He was hot headed, I believe his picture was portrayed on flight magazine covers and KLM promotional posters.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,644 cml387
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    In fairness to Van Zanten he was partly let down by his crew and fell victim to a series of events,,,what if there was no bomb in Palma, what if he wasn't out of hours, what if the fog didn't come down etc. etc.

    The aviation industry changed a lot after Tenerife, especially in the study of how the pilots must work as a team.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,712 roundymac
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    Yeah, but he was god at KLM, your career could rise or fall with a word from him. Cockpit resource management was'nt even heard of then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 KCAccidental
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    cml387 wrote: »
    In fairness to Van Zanten he was partly let down by his crew and fell victim to a series of events,,,what if there was no bomb in Palma, what if he wasn't out of hours, what if the fog didn't come down etc. etc.

    The aviation industry changed a lot after Tenerife, especially in the study of how the pilots must work as a team.

    agreed, there were many more factors at play than just his frustration. I think the programme portrayed him far to negatively. Yes, he made the errors that lead to the crash, but there were other factors. The controllers at Tenerife airport should have closed the field when the fog became so bad that they couldnt see the runway. Operating the airport blind without ground radar with so many planes on the ground and Taxiing being done on the runway, there were too many risks for them to do nothing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 Tea 1000
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    agreed, there were many more factors at play than just his frustration. I think the programme portrayed him far to negatively. Yes, he made the errors that lead to the crash, but there were other factors. The controllers at Tenerife airport should have closed the field when the fog became so bad that they couldnt see the runway. Operating the airport blind without ground radar with so many planes on the ground and Taxiing being done on the runway, there were too many risks for them to do nothing.
    There were many factors alright, but at the end of the day taking off without clearance is never acceptable.
    The big thing highlighted from it was that seniority in the cockpit used to be a very one-way street, with more junior members seldom questioning their captains. This was especially apparent within KLM as a company at the time, where it seemed that co-pilots were often heavily criticised if they dared to question the captain. That sort of atmosphere is wrong, and the Tenerife crash was the result.
    Mistakes will always be made, but an action as a result of a perceived image of self-importance should never be tolerated when lives are at stake.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 Delancey
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    Still a good deal of tiny fragments of wreckage to be found at the site - wiring , etc.
    The Pan Am Captain ( Victor Grubbs ) was one of its most experienced pilots - he had flown B 17's in WW2 , he died in 1995.
    The co-pilot ( Robert Bragg ) is still alive and gives interviews about the accident ( for the appropriate fee ) , he apparently needs the money as the Pan Am pension fund has long collapsed and its pensioners get a pittance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 834 Blue Punto
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    I was there as a child soon after the crash and remember my father pointing out to me large sections of wreckage from the accident still there.One black tail stands outs in my memory

    I was more interested in the DC-7 we parked beside


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,341 jasonb
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    I can remember when I started my PPL and first started talking to ATC. I was told to never use the word 'Takeoff' until I'd been cleared for takeoff, to only use 'Departure' up until then. And to always repeat back any instructions, not just acknowledge them. It's interesting to see just how many changes were implemented because of this accident, not just at an Airline level ( like Cockpit Resource Management ) but also all the way down to GA...

    J.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,992 McCrack
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    That moment when the KLM pilot realised what was about to happen could he not have steered the plane off the runway instead of trying to lift it over the pan am. Might be a silly q so forgive me!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,787 xflyer
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    Yes it's in danger of being a silly question. ;) Steering off the runway at that speed is not an option, we're talking a 747 here. The resulting off runway crash would have killed everyone and there's no guarantee it would have turned in time to miss the other 747 anyway. Lifting off was his only option at that point.

    I missed the programe but am well familiar with the accident. It was one of those pivotal accidents that change the way everything is done. The lessons learned haved improved safety and saved lives since.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 Run_to_da_hills
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    I believe the Pan Am jumbo was the first 747 to be built by Boeing after the prototype.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,712 roundymac
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    The KLM 747 had spent the week flight training at SNN before heading to Tenerife.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 Run_to_da_hills
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    roundymac wrote: »
    The KLM 747 had spent the week flight training at SNN before heading to Tenerife.
    Captain Van Zanten would have more than likely been involved in overseeing this training exercise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,577 lord lucan
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    On a related note,new Air Crash Investigation on Monday night at 21.00 on Nat Geo. Covers the TAM 3054 crash in 2007.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 KCAccidental
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    lord lucan wrote: »
    On a related note,new Air Crash Investigation on Monday night at 21.00 on Nat Geo. Covers the TAM 3054 crash in 2007.


    looking forward to that episode. I was in the air at the time of the crash on my way to toronto. saw the footage of the crash in the bar of the airport :eek:


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