People with no hope/chance in life

zoobizoo

I was on the train recently when 4 people in their early 30s got on, shouting loudly, smoking and slightly stoned.

The conversation veered from who they were shagging to their dealer to the best gear etc all at the top of their voices with no self awareness.

They had two young kids with them. I looked at the kids and felt nothing but pity for them. I would see that they have no hope of a better life.

Due to their upbringing in a dysfunctional family, their lives are going to be pretty awful. From a lack of education to being destined (more than likely) a dreary life, I was wondering

1. If there was anything society could do to prevent this ?

2. Should people with no means to support themselves / addicts be encouraged not to procreate?

3. Will this problem just continue throughout the next generation of their families and to what end?

I know you are probably sincere but post like that make me smile...for a bit of context look up the Victoria concept of the deserving and undeserving poor or even further back look at the myth of the ship of fools.

Ideas such as your have always been with us.

You cant be sure their children will have an unfulfilled life, how do you define unfulfilled anyway.

bigsmokewriting

"no hope of a better life" is a bit extreme. It can be a difficult situation to get out of, but none of us can tell from a single train journey with people, especially kids, how their lives are going to turn out. I'm sure we all know people who've come from 'hopeless' backgrounds but haven't let it determine their lives for them.

Nolanger

Even if they had a great life and went to a good school/college they'd only emigrate anyway.

booboo88

there are some people you would wish had never pro created, but we dont live in a communist state, but if we could vote on whether or not to have "some" peoples tubes tied, i would be for it

Denerick

mariaalice wrote: »

I know you are probably sincere but post like that make me smile...for a bit of context look up the Victoria concept of the deserving and undeserving poor or even further back look at the myth of the ship of fools.

Ideas such as your have always been with us.

You cant be sure their children will have an unfulfilled life, how do you define unfulfilled anyway.

Absolute puddlecock. Of course there are deserving and undeserving poor, thinking otherwise gives journalists and sociologists an erection but out in the real world people make decisions that consign themselves to a lifetime of 'muddling by'.

To deny some very basic things about humanity, that we make choices with our lives and suffer consequences as a result of that - and that we are accountable for those choices - is to engage in an enormous act of intellectual deceit of the most galling pathetic manner possible.

ananta mahfuj

Society is one of the oldest institutions in the world. But it is great sorrow that we people are not trying to keep in its original position. In a society, people must strengthen family tradition. Otherwise it may be impossible to stop such unexpected incidents.

anata mahfuj
anantamahfuj@gmail.com

ananta mahfuj

"You cant be sure their children will have an unfulfilled life, how do you define unfulfilled anyway."
Thanks Denerick. Its a question which can't be solved in thousands years. Is it possible to define "Fulfillment"? Perhaps, not. Without anything a person may be fulfilled or may not be.

I am a strong believer in personal responsibility ....people have free will to make choices that will affect their life and must accept the consonances of their choices.

BUT

Not everyone is born with an equal chance in life for example part of the reason why parents choose a fee paying school for their children is because of the confidence it gives to their children....say you wanted to be a barrister, confidence, a sense of belonging in that world and contacts are just as important as academic qualifications in making a career as a barrister.

irishh_bob

mariaalice wrote: »

I am a strong believer in personal responsibility ....people have free will to make choices that will affect their life and must accept the consonances of their choices.

BUT

Not everyone is born with an equal chance in life for example part of the reason why parents choose a fee paying school for their children is because of the confidence it gives to their children....say you wanted to be a barrister, confidence, a sense of belonging in that world and contacts are just as important as academic qualifications in making a career as a barrister.

im a strong believer in personal responsibility too , im also a strong believer in the concept of luck , regardless of your social backround , you need a healthy dose of luck in order to suceed in life, beit in terms of avoiding crossing the path of a drunk driver while travelling home in your car or being assigned to a possition where your superior is a workplace bully , to having an abusive parent or a mentally handicapped sibling , thier are many many things which are beyond peoples control which is why i resent the cliched saying , you make your own luck , if you made your own luck , it wouldnt be luck , just good descision making :mad:

Chuck Stone

zoobizoo wrote: »

I was on the train recently when 4 people in their early 30s got on, shouting loudly, smoking and slightly stoned.

Smoking hash on a train? Did you see them skinning up? How do you know they were stoned? Stoned people shouting?

The conversation veered from who they were shagging to their dealer to the best gear etc all at the top of their voices with no self awareness.

Four 30+-yr-olds smoking hash talking about the dealers they're getting it off (basically ratting on them) and discussing their sex lives? Really?

They had two young kids with them.

Four people or six people got on the train?

I looked at the kids and felt nothing but pity for them.
I would see that they have no hope of a better life.

I'd be less pessimistic and less determinist myself.

Due to their upbringing in a dysfunctional family, their lives are going to be pretty awful. From a lack of education to being destined (more than likely) a dreary life, I was wondering

Meh.

1. If there was anything society could do to prevent this ?

Drug taking? No. Not in any sustainable way given the historic example we have.

2. Should people with no means to support themselves / addicts be encouraged not to procreate?

How would you propose to do this? Maybe we could tie the tubes of all newborns and manage future births by putting in place a massive bureaucratic super-structure which would follow the lives of citizens and then give them re-productive rights if they passed some sort of test?

3. Will this problem just continue throughout the next generation of their families and to what end?

Imo yes - there will always be some shape of an 'under-class'. The alternative is a dystopian nightmare.

zoobizoo

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Smoking hash on a train? Did you see them skinning up? How do you know they were stoned? Stoned people shouting?



Four 30+-yr-olds smoking hash talking about the dealers they're getting it off (basically ratting on them) and discussing their sex lives? Really?



Four people or six people got on the train?



I'd be less pessimistic and less determinist myself.



Meh.



Drug taking? No. Not in any sustainable way given the historic example we have.



How would you propose to do this? Maybe we could tie the tubes of all newborns and manage future births by putting in place a massive bureaucratic super-structure which would follow the lives of citizens and then give them re-productive rights if they passed some sort of test?



Imo yes - there will always be some shape of an 'under-class'. The alternative is a dystopian nightmare.

I never said they were smoking hash on the train. I said that four people (Adults) got on and they had 2 children with them. They were slightly stoned (as in on pills of sorts).

Shouting at each other (their way of conversing) - yes really. I was sitting beside them.

santana75

In an ideal world maybe those kids would have a chance, but Ive seen this scenario play itself out in front of my eyes a few times over. The chances are those kids will grow up to be just like their parents and not doctors or lawyers. And they'll go on to create another generation of people who dont have a chance. Its a cycle that takes something extraordinary to break.

barry711

santana75 wrote: »

In an ideal world maybe those kids would have a chance, but Ive seen this scenario play itself out in front of my eyes a few times over. The chances are those kids will grow up to be just like their parents and not doctors or lawyers. And they'll go on to create another generation of people who dont have a chance. Its a cycle that takes something extraordinary to break.

I agree and disagree with you here but respectfully acknowledge your own opinions to which your are most entitled to.

I agree that it is a cycle and cycles do repeat themselevs...hence the name so yeah these things do often carry onto one generation from another for a large proportion of the people in them. I'd disagree with you when you said it takes an extraordinary effort to break.

Without going into to much personal details about my life lets just say I'm from a very poor area with a background thats been very dysfunctional for years and of parents who are now both dead thanks to their addictions. Their parents were they same and so were their parents parents.

I choose not be be like my parents and brake this cycle of addiction and self destruction that is rampant in a lot of the poorer areas in this country. I could of gone down the same path as them and used it as an excuse for my behavior but I don't want to do that, I want to be somebody and do something with my life. I'm starting college in September and plan to go onto university to get my degree there. I exhibit and behave in none of the ways my parents did and have no interest in their addictions that ended up killing them. Long ago I had made a decision and choice to better my life and it took no extraordinary effort on my behalf. I just weighed out the pros and cons of the situation and seen more sense in not carrying on this cycle.

If I can go to university and get my degree, get a job and have a kid in the future and teach him/her to be a good person who will grow up to be a good adult and not fall into any old cycles of his/her relatives...well then, thats all I'd ever want from this life.